James Stewart vs everyone else. Just the facts man.

kong0036
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1/18/2017 5:39pm
You know me Jeffro. I'm a JS fan and I can't argue against the facts and figures. But do you seriously think RC would have raised his speed and fitness program to the level that has made him the GOAT without JS pushing him past his comfort zone in so many areas? I know James hasn't got the titles that M.C RC , RV, and co have but I can tell you one thing about that guy. He laid it all on the line every time he got onto that starting gate. Whether he won or crashed out trying he gave us some of the best damn racing i have ever witnessed not to mention some of the most talented and skilled riding I've seen. You take JS out of the last 15 yrs of racing and you try and tell me it would have been better off without him then you are not a true fan of this sport.
APLMAN99
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1/18/2017 5:41pm
jeffro503 wrote:
RV has 3 lites championships too....i didn't list them. All time wins is awesome , especially for the longevity of it. We're going on 16 years...
RV has 3 lites championships too....i didn't list them. All time wins is awesome , especially for the longevity of it. We're going on 16 years now. And RC was two motos shy of having 3 perfect season. His competition was a little stiffer than Ferry and Short most of the time.
Using "years" can be a bit deceiving also, don't you think?

There were years of SX only, injury, etc.

It would actually be interesting to see how many starts, wins, titles, avg. point gap in title years, etc. for riders. I wouldn't be surprised if Villopoto is very close to Stewart in career starts. He might not be, but again I wouldn't be surprised if it was really close. Championships and season finishes don't reflect things like the season that Stewart was injured at the beginning of the National season then came back to not only win every moto he entered, but basically embarrassed the field twice every weekend. Granted that was the 125 National class, but that's a National title, not regional.

You used Barnett as one of your examples, but included his 125 titles. Por que?
gsxrcr28
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1/18/2017 5:43pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Who cares if someone thinks Dungey Stewart, RV, RC or Jimmy Weinert is better, it's just an opinion. IMO, To get very accurate comparisons, riders need...

Who cares if someone thinks Dungey Stewart, RV, RC or Jimmy Weinert is better, it's just an opinion.

IMO, To get very accurate comparisons, riders need to start their careers at about the same time and be in most of the same races. Similar to Reed vs Stewart, RC vs Windham, McGrath vs Emig, Lechein vs Ward etc...

I mentioned in another thread many former champions have called JS7 the "fastest ever" that's their opinion.
I think most people would call RC the best "racer" ever.

I just like to watch them all ride. Smile

jeffro503 wrote:
Chip brother....i completely agree. I know you weren't expecting that.
Good to see we agree Cool

I think what creates super fans for him (besides his riding) is people always trying to discredit his wins, championships, accomplishments and often just trying to insult the guy or his fans. I started racing in 1976 and have always followed the sport fanatically, and I've never seen such disrespect for any rider, including racist shit towards him I've seen and heard myself. Also, his dad being spit on, and people telling his mom they hope he breaks his neck, we could go on forever.

To his benefit, he'll always be very popular, have a lot of fans, and sell a lot of Seven Gear. Laughing
Park Boys
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1/18/2017 5:49pm
Why was RJ not shown?

The Shop

Flip109
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1/18/2017 6:08pm


newmann
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1/18/2017 6:13pm
Jeffro, not sure what you're problem is.

Stewart could do shit on a bike no one else would even attempt.

And while he was doing it, Everts passed him on the outside.

Feet up.

On the pegs.

Double spaced MWM style.

Go Vital!
machine
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1/18/2017 6:17pm
It's funny those same rabid fans are telling you to let it go, when they can't seem "to let it go" and realize he's done and there might be a reason his brother wasn't given a ride. They can't help themselves but keep creating lame ass threads about what time they wiped their asses today, clogging up the forum and once again creating more arguments and animosity between members.
jeffro503
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1/18/2017 6:22pm
kong0036 wrote:
You know me Jeffro. I'm a JS fan and I can't argue against the facts and figures. But do you seriously think RC would have raised...
You know me Jeffro. I'm a JS fan and I can't argue against the facts and figures. But do you seriously think RC would have raised his speed and fitness program to the level that has made him the GOAT without JS pushing him past his comfort zone in so many areas? I know James hasn't got the titles that M.C RC , RV, and co have but I can tell you one thing about that guy. He laid it all on the line every time he got onto that starting gate. Whether he won or crashed out trying he gave us some of the best damn racing i have ever witnessed not to mention some of the most talented and skilled riding I've seen. You take JS out of the last 15 yrs of racing and you try and tell me it would have been better off without him then you are not a true fan of this sport.
No way would i say that or even imply that Kong. I know damn well James had brought a ton of excitement to our sport! That was not the reason why i started this thread. It was towards guys spewing stuff with no actual facts. So i posted facts on entire careers , and let whoever see's them be the judge.

I see it as a slight insult to all the other riders , when in fact I've seen a lot of them have incredible races , and do incredable things , with incredible career results to back it up.
Bigshow
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1/18/2017 6:23pm
Park Boys wrote:
Why was RJ not shown?
Totally agree, why no love for Ricky BAD BOY Johnson?
1/18/2017 6:24pm
Dude, James single handily changed the shape of racing...his speed is off the charts and I believe that is what people are talking about! If you think this is not the case then you are delusional.

This is what sets James apart from anyone else! He was
doing things that others couldn't even understand! It took years before anyone could even get to that level.
jeffro503
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1/18/2017 6:29pm
Park Boys wrote:
Why was RJ not shown?
Bigshow wrote:
Totally agree, why no love for Ricky BAD BOY Johnson?
I was going to post stats for RJ , Bailey , JMB ect...but damn it , the first post would of taken the entire first page. Like i mentioned though , there are many more greats out there...you just have to look at the vault. I can try and post them here in a bit.
jeffro503
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1/18/2017 6:34pm
Dude, James single handily changed the shape of racing...his speed is off the charts and I believe that is what people are talking about! If you...
Dude, James single handily changed the shape of racing...his speed is off the charts and I believe that is what people are talking about! If you think this is not the case then you are delusional.

This is what sets James apart from anyone else! He was
doing things that others couldn't even understand! It took years before anyone could even get to that level.
His speed still only landed him behind RC....multiple years. RC not only matched James , but beat him for every championship they ever raced against each other.

RV and RD could almost say the same.

Why don't they get mentioned in your eyes of how they changed the sport? Just asking.
Zoom
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1/18/2017 6:39pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 6:41pm
No fact, just an opinion. From the words of one of the nations top factory riders in the 70's and 80's, winner of 125 National, 250 National and a SX. Know as one of best all around riders of all time. The only rider to be a factory rider in Motocross, Road Racing and Flat Track for Honda when Honda was king. Now most of you know who I am talking about.

"Stewart is the fastest rider of all time, just not the smartest"...

This doesn't mean he was the most successful or won the most championships, just the fastest to get around a motocross or supercross track.

To some people the fastest is the best, to others the one that wins the most championships is the best.
Moto520
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1/18/2017 6:41pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 7:30pm
Respectfully....you put the stats up there without labeling the columns which is confusing as shit. Also...I think you are confusing peoples respect for Stewart with us calling him the best of all time. Get it hrough your freaking head that we are not saying he is the best guy to ever ride a motorcycle. If you can't understand this simple part of the conversation.....then you are a moron.

Many of us are defending others uneducated opinion that Stewart is irrelevant in the sport at the present time. We have had enough of the Internet idiots that live in an Internet bubble trying to tell us that Stewart is not great. Many of us have actually witnessed him ride on several occasions (with our own eyes....not on instagram or whatever) and watched him be great. If you were involved in the sport during this time period....you would have a full understanding of our respect and admiration for Stewart. This doesn't make us nuthuggers or whatever retarded shit you've decided to use in the place of "fan."

I'm of the opinion that most of you (the negative side) haven't raced within the last year. I'm also willing to bet that some of the negative pricks don't even ride. If they do ride....they aren't the type of rider that many of us are. I'm not talking speed but pure dedication to the sport.


The vault is great and all but there is a difference between viewing the stats on a screen and watching the events live.
1/18/2017 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 6:54pm
Zoom wrote:
No fact, just an opinion. From the words of one of the nations top factory riders in the 70's and 80's, winner of 125 National, 250...
No fact, just an opinion. From the words of one of the nations top factory riders in the 70's and 80's, winner of 125 National, 250 National and a SX. Know as one of best all around riders of all time. The only rider to be a factory rider in Motocross, Road Racing and Flat Track for Honda when Honda was king. Now most of you know who I am talking about.

"Stewart is the fastest rider of all time, just not the smartest"...

This doesn't mean he was the most successful or won the most championships, just the fastest to get around a motocross or supercross track.

To some people the fastest is the best, to others the one that wins the most championships is the best.
" just the fastest to get around a motocross... track"- in the era of James Stewart's motocross prime, that would be Ricky Carmicheal.

Don't understand how you guys can claim he's the fastest in MX. He clearly wasn't. Bubba scrub an all, Ricky dealt
it to him. UNDEFEATED career, UNSURPASSED WINS THREE perfect seasons! Two every moto and the last with every overall. I don't care who called him what... WE saw it. But hey.. it's your lie, you tell it Wink

And up above Kong even gives James credit for Ricky being the GOAT! haha That's gold.
FARANG
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1/18/2017 7:01pm
Dude, James single handily changed the shape of racing...his speed is off the charts and I believe that is what people are talking about! If you...
Dude, James single handily changed the shape of racing...his speed is off the charts and I believe that is what people are talking about! If you think this is not the case then you are delusional.

This is what sets James apart from anyone else! He was
doing things that others couldn't even understand! It took years before anyone could even get to that level.
Pretty sure RC could understand what he was doing when he beat him for those Championships and lapped him at Millville.

What was he doing years before anyone? Ever heard of JoJo Keller or was the year James Stewart turned Pro the year zero for Motocross? Kind of like Anno Domini. Where Christianity has BC and AD, the worship of James Stewart has BS and AS.

RD757
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1/18/2017 7:10pm
Wow Villo, MC and RC were damn good! Definitely my top three but understand other people's opinion that stew belongs up there for what he brought to the sport.
bvm111
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1/18/2017 7:34pm
You guys couldnt figure out the columns.... seriously? Blink Blink Blink
mxjon454
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1/18/2017 7:35pm
Adam43 wrote:
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine. You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable. You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is...
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine.

You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable.

You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is second highest all-time for wins, above everyone save Carmichael by a significant margin.

He is one of just two riders to record a perfect season.

These are also facts.
blusmbl wrote:
James has 26 more total wins than Villopoto. Also a fact.
jeffro503 wrote:
A career that is twice as long too. Go look at those stat pictures above again.
Twice as long? RV was pro for 10 years. Bubba has raced 14 seasons so far. He couldnt race in '15 and hasnt raced this year yet. And he missed all but 3 or 4 races in 2010? How is 14 seasons raced twice as many as villopoto?
kwebster447
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1/18/2017 7:37pm
While difficult to prove, he has been the fastest looking person I've seen ride a motorcycle in the last 25+ years. Fitness and consistency seem to have been an issue lately, but he often posted top qualifying times just last year. I wouldn't be surprised if he does that again this year when he comes back.
SVT-Cobra
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1/18/2017 7:45pm
Pointless topic. James Stewart has accomplished a great deal. I think it is clear that he is not the most "complete" rider to ever swing a leg over a motocross bike due to injuries and consistency. Even then, he was second on win percentage for SX at 42% (unsure for MX) as of 2015, second only to Villopoto at 45%. In 2012 he was at a 50% SX win percentage.Though, as even RC has said himself, he is probably the fastest guy to ever swing a leg over a motocross bike,
Myke
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1/18/2017 7:47pm
All I can add is that James Stewart's sponsors get a ton of exposure from him not matter where he finishes.
Brosho
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1/18/2017 7:50pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I have a feeling even the pics won't help some of you guys. Laughing
Can you explain why there are some 125mx stats in your charts for both RC and MC but not James?
BigDaddyG
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1/18/2017 7:52pm
There's no question that James deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as the all time greatest rider's for sure. Thenway he came in and set the world on fire with his 125, the way he changed the sport by taking the scrub to a whole new level. The battles with RC in the outdoors were epic.
Only 1 of 2 guys to ever have a perfect outdoor season ever. That alone should be enough to have him mentioned im that conversation.
But personally I believe the attention he brought to the sport for being the first African American in a white dominant sport to come in and have the success he uas had. That brought a bunch of positive attention from media outlets that would otherwise pay attention to moto. This brought exposure and created more fans of the sport both from a viewers perspective and a participant perspective.

Im a fan of James and have the utmost respect for him and for keeping his head up and dealing with the thousands of racist assholes who would yell obscenities at him in the pits and on the track. He definitely elevated the sport to a new level.

I dont think theres a "greatest rider ever"... too many guys with huge contributions to our sport in different eras.
Johnny Ringo
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1/18/2017 7:55pm
Adam43 wrote:
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine. You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable. You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is...
You're clearly heavily weighting championship results heavily, which is fine.

You're disregarding 125 National results, which is questionable.

You're also ignoring the fact that Stewart is second highest all-time for wins, above everyone save Carmichael by a significant margin.

He is one of just two riders to record a perfect season.

These are also facts.
blusmbl wrote:
James has 26 more total wins than Villopoto. Also a fact.
jeffro503 wrote:
A career that is twice as long too. Go look at those stat pictures above again.
Some would say career longevity makes someone's career greater.
APLMAN99
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1/18/2017 7:59pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I have a feeling even the pics won't help some of you guys. Laughing
Brosho wrote:
Can you explain why there are some 125mx stats in your charts for both RC and MC but not James?
And 125/250F for Barnett, Dungey, Ward, Roczen........
RCB33
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1/18/2017 8:02pm
Screw the Stewart debate, not to throw the thread off track but am I the only one who was shocked by Ward's? I knew he was around for a long time but that is straight up impressive. WOW!
jeffro503
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1/18/2017 8:15pm
blusmbl wrote:
James has 26 more total wins than Villopoto. Also a fact.
jeffro503 wrote:
A career that is twice as long too. Go look at those stat pictures above again.
mxjon454 wrote:
Twice as long? RV was pro for 10 years. Bubba has raced 14 seasons so far. He couldnt race in '15 and hasnt raced this year...
Twice as long? RV was pro for 10 years. Bubba has raced 14 seasons so far. He couldnt race in '15 and hasnt raced this year yet. And he missed all but 3 or 4 races in 2010? How is 14 seasons raced twice as many as villopoto?
ML typed it just a few replies above yours , but'll help you out.

" Ryan Villopoto competed professionally in ten different years.

James Stewart has competed professionally in fourteen different years. (He didn't race Supercross or Motocross in 2015 and hasn't raced in 17, yet)

For premier class only...


Villo: Six different years
Stewart: Eleven different years
"

Yeah.....about twice as long. Any more questions?
APLMAN99
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1/18/2017 8:16pm
RCB33 wrote:
Screw the Stewart debate, not to throw the thread off track but am I the only one who was shocked by Ward's? I knew he was...
Screw the Stewart debate, not to throw the thread off track but am I the only one who was shocked by Ward's? I knew he was around for a long time but that is straight up impressive. WOW!
Ward's career is definitely impressive, but if you are just looking at the "length" of the image posted, you have to keep in mind that some of those years were when he raced 2 National classes and a SX class. Those were some odd schedules.

Post a reply to: James Stewart vs everyone else. Just the facts man.

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