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You say "they are great bikes", but yet you shit on the in every single KTM thread....
All bikes have issues, they are machines...shit happens
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KTM's constant push to advance the bikes has also made them use components that were not extensively tested for durability. The part may be great and light, but how can you test it for wear at the 120 hour mark if you're already looking at new parts for the newest bike you're going to release in 6 months time?
When a company puts out a BNG bike, I wonder how many people believe there was actually NOTHING changed on the bike. The manufacturers are constantly updating/changing parts on bikes without any fanfare on every new model year for a host of different reasons, but mainly because there is no substitute for 'time' in the development of a motorcycle, or anything really.
When was the last time KTM put out a BNG bike though? Exactly. I applaud them for pushing the envelope on the development on their bikes but they need to slow it down. You don't want to end up in a state where people expect a brand new motorcycle every year. There is nothing wrong with building a platform over time and changing it up every few years. At least then you have the chance to evaluate your bikes and components for long term durability.
Ktm has set the bar high by being the most innovative manufacturer in recent years. THEY are the reason Honda was forced to make the 2017 Honda have an electric start option, and aftermarket Yosh pipe option.
Anyone that thinks 5 lbs can't be felt on a bike has been huffing too much race gas. Honda will spend 50,000$ to shed 5lbs on Roczens bike.
By the way, as a loyal 30 year Honda person, I have broken or cracked many aluminum framed Cr250s, and had plenty of failures.
Personally, I wouldn't buy anything but KTM right now. Once you have one and take them apart, like the clutch for example, you will see what quality looks like as opposed to mass production. You can't even buy an aftermarket clutch basket for a KTM can you? Stock is billet.
Might come as a surprise to some of you horse power junkies but I also like the power of the Honda. Let's face it these are 450's, the majority of us will not perform any better with them being lighter or more powerful.
I get a kick out these guys saying weight does not matter, if it is a non issue why do the factories spend many thousands to get their bikes down to the minimum? Do they just like spending money?
In the car drag racing world, every 100lbs added requires something like 10hp to overcome.
With steel you are more or less stuck using tubing that must be cut to length, bent, and welded to produce the final frame design. With that you have fairly consistent wall thicknesses which means that you must design the thickness and diameter of the tubing to be strong enough for the weakest area, which means some areas can be over built unless you spend more time and money performing further processes to compensate.
With aluminum, you gain the ability to produce frame sections by extruding and casting. By using extruded sections, you can have basically whatever cross section profile is needed and the wall thicknesses can change throughout that profile as well, so areas that don't need to be as strong can be made thinner and vise versa. Using cast sections lets you produce complex geometries very cheap.
Think about the rear cast sections of a frame. Once you cast the part, you have a large section with more or less all the needed features ready to go, such as mounting tabs, peg holes, shock mounts. Just a quick clean up to face surfaces and tap holes and its ready to go. To do the same section out of steel, you have to cut, bend, and weld all the pieces, plus position and weld all the mounting tabs too.
Aluminum frames generally consist of less, but larger sections, thus reducing the number of welds and welding operations compared to a steel frame. Plus steel frames also will require further processes to ensure protection against corrosion.
Steel material may be cheaper but in the end the costs of processing the parts is probably in aluminum's favor.
Pit Row
IMO the biggest cost savings is in the machining. Aluminum is much softer, allowing for higher cutting speeds and deeper depth of cut. You also get longer tool life, and coolant less machining is easier. Not using coolant can qualify for tax credits because it's "green" and I've even heard of saving on insurance because coolant makes a slippery mess on the floor.
For comparison sake, 6150 steel has a ultimate yield strength of 940 MPa and 6061-T6 aluminum is 300 MPa.
6150 density is 0.28lb/cu in and 6061 density is 0.0975 lb/cu in.
So the aluminum is roughly a third as strong (ultimate yeild) and about a third as dense. Once you use enough aluminum to get the strength to match the steel, you're going to be at about the same weight.
@kiwifan you know I just like ruffling feathers, it's all good
Post a reply to: So does the 2017 CRF450 prove that the current production aluminium frame 450's are as light as they will get?