3rd Class

CrGuy2T
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12/15/2016 4:19pm
It'll never happen. 125 class is dead!
BobPA
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12/15/2016 4:36pm
stock engines would be too hard to regulate. Look at how many guys have admitted to running big bore engines already. power isnt a problem for...
stock engines would be too hard to regulate. Look at how many guys have admitted to running big bore engines already.
power isnt a problem for these bikes, go watch races from 2003, guys on 125s are jumping triples and doing rhythm sections. PLUS a modded 125 engine can be had for under $1000.


This class would essentially replace the 250f's in the east west series and the 250s would bump up to a full national series. and in this case, rules such as: bumping riders up by way of pointing out or winning a title would make more sense

another format would be to have a 250 east/west and a national series. both with 250f's. the east west stays intact with existing rules but a national series is added.

For teams with multiple riders they would limited to the amount of regional racers, thus allowing them to keep just as many riders on a team but limiting their power in the development class.




Example:

125 (250f's) Supercross West/East regional series

250 Supercross National series

450 supercross National series


You lost all credibility when you said "14 year olds are faster then most pros" get real bro.

Tracks were quite a bit different in 2003 compared to now. I am all for a 125 class, but a bunch of young kids on underpowered bikes just spells disaster on a full tilt sx track...
tombugg
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12/15/2016 5:45pm
I have an idea,.. Lets add a 125 smoker class..That would be super rad! I really cant believe no one has thought of this before??

Seriously though.. I would love to see a smoker class, however the lack of manufacturer support would make it near impossible. How about a 150cc class
Johnny Depp
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12/15/2016 9:29pm
Get rid of the KTM mini bikes and make it the KTM 125's. Same concept.

The Shop

pbody
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12/15/2016 9:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2016 9:40pm
57F1VE wrote:
Blose, faith, lamay, regal, Reynard, bowers, possibly weimer..... All ended up there. Must be viable, and also kind of conflicting with the stepping stone process. Third...
Blose, faith, lamay, regal, Reynard, bowers, possibly weimer..... All ended up there. Must be viable, and also kind of conflicting with the stepping stone process. Third class would be great. They could fit it in. Possibly some qualifying on Friday, especially with a huge rider count so there's not an a session, b session, then 2 or 3 sessions of bad crashes
Yeah, lots of the same thinking here.

Not seeing too many AX young guns running entire AX series then jumping up to SX....those that need to only run the minimum required, then practice on their own until their planned SX series starts.

Go back to two day event. Sell tickets with two day options. Will increase exposure to the sport via local media. Increase local commerce (hotels, food, gas). Teams can do more activation on Fridays.

Downside is more travel and its impact on the riders/teams. I get that, but everyone just wants to work less and earn more...here's their chance to work more and earn more by growing the sport....increase your chance of a long, healthy career by bringing longevity to the industry.

Have qualifying on Friday for support class to race their main on Saturday night.....before Heats or squeeze into night program.

Also go back to having practice for the primary classes on Friday....this will allow the privateers and B teams a chance to bridge the gap to the top tier riders/teams and tighten up the racing; hopefully see more/different people on the podium.
Johnny Depp
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12/15/2016 9:47pm
I also find myself thinking why are we inviting amateurs into a Pro race? You don't go to pro stick and ball sports and they also have a college team running half of the show. Perhaps it is best to focus on making the show the best it can be, and leave the development and grooming to other events?
12/15/2016 9:50pm
tombugg wrote:
I have an idea,.. Lets add a 125 smoker class..That would be super rad! I really cant believe no one has thought of this before?? Seriously...
I have an idea,.. Lets add a 125 smoker class..That would be super rad! I really cant believe no one has thought of this before??

Seriously though.. I would love to see a smoker class, however the lack of manufacturer support would make it near impossible. How about a 150cc class


Near impossible? Bitch please.
hillbilly
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12/16/2016 8:33am
I look for the program to be shortened from 3 hrs to 2 at some point.

Maybe like speedwaygp where there are 40 guys with alternates,

2 long main events.
JMX82
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12/16/2016 8:39am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 8:44am
Bring back the old class structure 125,250 and 450(500). There was nothing wrong with that in the first place.

And what comes to 125's. "If you build it they will come"
mx836
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12/16/2016 8:59am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 9:01am
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to help anything? Give it up with the 2 strokes already. I wish 4 strokes never became what they are, but bogus ideas from the taliban are not helping! If anything, the constant clammering about 2 strokes is starting to cause me to resent them. So for the sake of my 2 stroke love and fond youth memories, please stop.
hillbilly
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12/16/2016 9:07am
Thinking your ideas matter is crazy as thinking 2 strokes are coming back.
early
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12/16/2016 9:28am
hillbilly wrote:
Thinking your ideas matter is crazy as thinking 2 strokes are coming back.
Timed main events was Feld throwing us a bone to think that any hair-brained idea could become reality.
tombugg
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12/16/2016 9:37am
Okay, its possible, so why hasn't it happened? There seems to be a crapload of people that think it would be great entertainment.. I would also love to see Supercross go to 2 mains like outdoors.
BobPA
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12/16/2016 9:39am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 9:40am
mx836 wrote:
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to...
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to help anything? Give it up with the 2 strokes already. I wish 4 strokes never became what they are, but bogus ideas from the taliban are not helping! If anything, the constant clammering about 2 strokes is starting to cause me to resent them. So for the sake of my 2 stroke love and fond youth memories, please stop.
No one cares what you think
hillbilly
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12/16/2016 9:44am
hillbilly wrote:
Thinking your ideas matter is crazy as thinking 2 strokes are coming back.
early wrote:
Timed main events was Feld throwing us a bone to think that any hair-brained idea could become reality.
Like i typed up there, a 3 hr tv show is proving in NASCAR to be to long, at some point I will bet my tooth that it gets shortened to 2 hrs. How? I dont know and it won't matter to the people that want it done.

It is a show,that is all, to make money.
mx836
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12/16/2016 9:51am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 9:52am
mx836 wrote:
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to...
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to help anything? Give it up with the 2 strokes already. I wish 4 strokes never became what they are, but bogus ideas from the taliban are not helping! If anything, the constant clammering about 2 strokes is starting to cause me to resent them. So for the sake of my 2 stroke love and fond youth memories, please stop.
BobPA wrote:
No one cares what you think
Ok asshole. At least I'm not just trolling people in hopes of being the biggest little dick on Vital like yourself. Wink
kkawboy14
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12/16/2016 9:52am
mx836 wrote:
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to...
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to help anything? Give it up with the 2 strokes already. I wish 4 strokes never became what they are, but bogus ideas from the taliban are not helping! If anything, the constant clammering about 2 strokes is starting to cause me to resent them. So for the sake of my 2 stroke love and fond youth memories, please stop.
BobPA wrote:
No one cares what you think
mx836 wrote:
Ok asshole. At least I'm not just trolling people in hopes of being the biggest little dick on Vital like yourself. Wink
I care!
mx836
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12/16/2016 9:53am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I care!
Awwww. Tongue
early
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12/16/2016 9:54am
hillbilly wrote:
Like i typed up there, a 3 hr tv show is proving in NASCAR to be to long, at some point I will bet my tooth...
Like i typed up there, a 3 hr tv show is proving in NASCAR to be to long, at some point I will bet my tooth that it gets shortened to 2 hrs. How? I dont know and it won't matter to the people that want it done.

It is a show,that is all, to make money.
You have a good point and honestly it makes sense. Given that they already do raceday live they should be able to take care of all qualifying during the day streamed online then have a shorter night show. I would watch it all but when i watch a program with friends who arenot into it they are checked out by the time the mains come around.
hillbilly
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12/16/2016 9:54am
BobPA wrote:
No one cares what you think
mx836 wrote:
Ok asshole. At least I'm not just trolling people in hopes of being the biggest little dick on Vital like yourself. Wink
kkawboy14 wrote:
I care!
Liar
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA US
12/16/2016 1:38pm
stock engines would be too hard to regulate. Look at how many guys have admitted to running big bore engines already. power isnt a problem for...
stock engines would be too hard to regulate. Look at how many guys have admitted to running big bore engines already.
power isnt a problem for these bikes, go watch races from 2003, guys on 125s are jumping triples and doing rhythm sections. PLUS a modded 125 engine can be had for under $1000.


This class would essentially replace the 250f's in the east west series and the 250s would bump up to a full national series. and in this case, rules such as: bumping riders up by way of pointing out or winning a title would make more sense

another format would be to have a 250 east/west and a national series. both with 250f's. the east west stays intact with existing rules but a national series is added.

For teams with multiple riders they would limited to the amount of regional racers, thus allowing them to keep just as many riders on a team but limiting their power in the development class.




Example:

125 (250f's) Supercross West/East regional series

250 Supercross National series

450 supercross National series


BobPA wrote:
You lost all credibility when you said "14 year olds are faster then most pros" get real bro. Tracks were quite a bit different in 2003...
You lost all credibility when you said "14 year olds are faster then most pros" get real bro.

Tracks were quite a bit different in 2003 compared to now. I am all for a 125 class, but a bunch of young kids on underpowered bikes just spells disaster on a full tilt sx track...
SORRY LET ME CLARIFY: there are SOME 14 YR OLDS who are have the SKILLS and SPEED to compete at the professional level.

tracks are much different. maybe stuff was more peaked but go watch races from 2003. Triples arent any bigger

the age wouldnt be a factor in the class. It would simple continue as what the east west is now, and the 250 class would become a national series. and if age is a concern for you, then you should be concerned with the supermini class and the all star class at the MEC. "oh but its not a REAL sx track" BS, it is, it simply did not have a sx styple whoop section.

people forget how fast a 125 is and how fast guys went on them #STANKDOGGLENHELEN

REALITY IS, the east west doenst need to go away, a 250 national series needs to be added.
Bodieg3
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12/16/2016 5:53pm
early wrote:
Not to shit on this parade but i really dont see this happening at all. For one the saturday schedule is pretty full. There isnt that...
Not to shit on this parade but i really dont see this happening at all. For one the saturday schedule is pretty full. There isnt that much of an intermission during the night show to hold another main and there is track work being done during those intermissions (i know theres the ktm thing but that is not as long as a real race). If you were to add more races to the night show i would like to see a 2 lap dash between the 2 winners of the heat races for maybe 5 championship points, give more incentive to win heats and extra tight gate drops with the fastest guys.
Not as long a a real race ? Have you been to many races live . Ones I've went to lasted 10-15 min that ktm jr krap lasts forever
BobPA
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12/16/2016 6:10pm
mx836 wrote:
Ok asshole. At least I'm not just trolling people in hopes of being the biggest little dick on Vital like yourself. Wink
Aww do you need someone to give you a participation trophy? Or maybe a box of tissues?
Radical
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12/16/2016 6:59pm
Call me crazy, but I think this is the best solution:

Supercross:
125 East/West (2 stroke or 4 stroke)
250 Full National series. (2 stroke or 4 stroke)
* Ditch the 450's for Supercross. *

For Outdoors:

125 Regional 2 x 15 mins +1 or 1 x 30 mins + 2
250 Full National Series
450 Full National Series

Johnny Depp
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12/16/2016 7:11pm
hillbilly wrote:
I look for the program to be shortened from 3 hrs to 2 at some point. Maybe like speedwaygp where there are 40 guys with alternates...
I look for the program to be shortened from 3 hrs to 2 at some point.

Maybe like speedwaygp where there are 40 guys with alternates,

2 long main events.
Very clairvoyant.

The wording of the timed events press release would certainly lend itself to speculation such as this. Also the Monster Energy Cup has proven to be an excellent test of this format.

bobojim
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AU
12/17/2016 3:37am
mx836 wrote:
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to...
There won't be any 125s at SX probably ever again. Please explain how having a "support" class of kids on 125s weeding themselves is going to help anything? Give it up with the 2 strokes already. I wish 4 strokes never became what they are, but bogus ideas from the taliban are not helping! If anything, the constant clammering about 2 strokes is starting to cause me to resent them. So for the sake of my 2 stroke love and fond youth memories, please stop.
There are a couple of problems / issues all bundled up:

-is a new support class required or going to be a good thing? (Main question of this thread)

-if so, what bikes should this class be on? Now this is where views start to really vary, and problems like the fact 125's are disappearing and 250's are too big and so there are no real clear options after the the 85's.

The problem is to say you need a new class can't go any where unless you have a good answer for the what it should be. But on the other hand if there is a genuine benefit for a new support class, it is still worth coming to that conclusion. Because than it could help create a drive to solve the problem of the gap between 85's and 250's.
Crush
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12/17/2016 4:00am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2016 4:06am
The 250 class structure is fine, end of the day, there is 22 gates, you make it 17 rounds and one series, you halve the rides (The teams will only take two, money talks) which will limit future opportunities for talent growth and half the support staff jobs. Further... some sponsors will only be interested in winning opportunities, ie, Geico doesn't give a fuck that their guys win the 250 class, because their market doesn't care.

Matthes actually has a problem with the poor job the teams have done forcing the promoters to give them sufficient opportunities to market themselves and their sponsors so the 450 class non-elite riders aren't reliant on a few rides and the pitiful purse. The promoters are making money and everyone else is losing it or not making it. Well done.

How the teams haven't forced the promoters to improve the TV sponsor graphics package etc and give them some more bang for their buck is fucking crazy.
Crush
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12/17/2016 4:04am
Having said that... a 125 "entry" class, that made all the amateurs only required to ride 2 strokes would lower the barriers to entry for the market, increase the participation pool and provide an opportune marketable difference for the bigger classes. But you know. Marketing and shit. No one else seems to be able to see what Nascar has done, they just think it's cause they have a hood without looking at what canvas' they could use.
hillbilly
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12/17/2016 4:19am
hillbilly wrote:
Like i typed up there, a 3 hr tv show is proving in NASCAR to be to long, at some point I will bet my tooth...
Like i typed up there, a 3 hr tv show is proving in NASCAR to be to long, at some point I will bet my tooth that it gets shortened to 2 hrs. How? I dont know and it won't matter to the people that want it done.

It is a show,that is all, to make money.
early wrote:
You have a good point and honestly it makes sense. Given that they already do raceday live they should be able to take care of all...
You have a good point and honestly it makes sense. Given that they already do raceday live they should be able to take care of all qualifying during the day streamed online then have a shorter night show. I would watch it all but when i watch a program with friends who arenot into it they are checked out by the time the mains come around.
I heard them on the weekly radio show this week and they are fixin to do something drastic. Sounds like cutting race length by a lot except for the big ones,600,Daytona and such.

And monster got a bargain,. They had to be the only serious company trying to get in.
mx836
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12/17/2016 4:55am
BobPA wrote:
Aww do you need someone to give you a participation trophy? Or maybe a box of tissues?
Grow up douche bag.

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