STUPID STUPID EMT'S...PISSES ME OFF

gt80rider
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Boulder, CO, USA
2/9/2009 10:57am
just one of the dangers of riding outside this country..... more than likely their EMT's and medical staffs as a whole will not be able to treat you as well as in the good ole' USA.....
lrantan
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Edgewood, NM, USA
2/9/2009 11:05am
"LICENSED MEDICAL PHYSICIAN" ---
Usually makes things worse is my experience on scene.

Can't align the head/neck/shoulders/back with a helmet on, football players leave the helmet on because the helmet/shoulder pads keep everything aligned.

Couldn't see it but if he was having any respiratory issues the helmet must come off.

Don't throw the EMT/paramedic name in there just because those guys had yellow vests and helmets on. Who knows what training they have if any.
2/9/2009 4:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
As a promoter for over 15 years, one of my biggest problems was the parents who wanted to scoop their kid up BEFORE an assessment was made. As soon as they saw Junior crash, they would run out on the track to get to their kid. I can understand wanting to make sure the kid was okay, but there were several times that the parents could have done more damage than the actual crash.


We also had a problem for a short time with medics who wanted to transport EVERYONE. Took care of that pretty quickly.


Luckily, we had a good relationship with the local fire department. They offered classes to their medics on helmet removal and learned how to do a RACER/RIDER assessment. We were very fortunate to have the crews that we did.











brent26wood
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2/9/2009 5:56pm
Without watching the video or reading this entire thread, I will dis agree with Dave on taking the Dr. advice. I for one know that most Doctors don't know dick about prehospital emergency care. And very few of them know how to handle trauma in the field. They are trained to handle in hospital emergencies. And that come straight out of the Medical Directors mouth at GW Med School. I've done rotations in ERs and sat back laughing at Doctors trying to use traction splints and cervical collars. I would rather have a good paramedic work on me in the field than have a Dr. trying to remember how to do pre hospital stuff.

The Shop

CamP
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2/9/2009 7:28pm
I've had too many bad experiences with EMT's to delude myself into thinking one will save me in a worst case scenario. If I get hurt bad, I want a helicopter there asap. I get a little freaked out when I ride anywhere further than a 15 minute flight to my favorite hospital.
WORCSRacer
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2/9/2009 7:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
You guys crack me up.


I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for promoters that obviously hadn't thought through the danger and what can happen when things go wrong. Let's not pull anything if they had thought it through, trained staff would have been there, someone like Doc Bodner. You might also want to consider that most local events in the good ol' USA don't have a rider advocate either. Its just a fact in this sport.


Bad shit happens when things go wrong and this went wrong in a really bad way. You can go on for a long time trying to pin blame on someone but in the end this is about not being ready for the "when" because at that level there is no "if".
2/9/2009 8:42pm
Agree with WORCS on the promotors and let's not forget how windy it was...the riders probably shouldn't have been given the go ahead to jump.

There is more discussion on the freestyle board stemming from this tragic accident about Leatt braces and air-ambulance insurance...but as Bob said, there are so many freestyle events around the world and the riders are so scattered that it's probably not feasible to have a medical staff of their own to travel with them. Sucks really.
The_PU300
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2/9/2009 8:53pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
You guys crack me up. I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for...
You guys crack me up.


I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for promoters that obviously hadn't thought through the danger and what can happen when things go wrong. Let's not pull anything if they had thought it through, trained staff would have been there, someone like Doc Bodner. You might also want to consider that most local events in the good ol' USA don't have a rider advocate either. Its just a fact in this sport.


Bad shit happens when things go wrong and this went wrong in a really bad way. You can go on for a long time trying to pin blame on someone but in the end this is about not being ready for the "when" because at that level there is no "if".
are you retarded....? Been to San Jose (CR) lately? I can't watch the video. But, there are some seriously rich people in CR and you can bet that advanced medical care is AT LEAST on par with ours.

I just hope that he is able to make a recovery and come home.
CamP
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2/9/2009 9:01pm
PU300 is right, Costa Rica is far from a third world country. I wouldn't be surprised if Lusk is getting better treatment there than half our hospitals could provide.
Farva
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2/9/2009 9:13pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
You guys crack me up. I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for...
You guys crack me up.


I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for promoters that obviously hadn't thought through the danger and what can happen when things go wrong. Let's not pull anything if they had thought it through, trained staff would have been there, someone like Doc Bodner. You might also want to consider that most local events in the good ol' USA don't have a rider advocate either. Its just a fact in this sport.


Bad shit happens when things go wrong and this went wrong in a really bad way. You can go on for a long time trying to pin blame on someone but in the end this is about not being ready for the "when" because at that level there is no "if".
The_PU300 wrote:
are you retarded....? Been to San Jose (CR) lately? I can't watch the video. But, there are some seriously rich people in CR and you can...
are you retarded....? Been to San Jose (CR) lately? I can't watch the video. But, there are some seriously rich people in CR and you can bet that advanced medical care is AT LEAST on par with ours.

I just hope that he is able to make a recovery and come home.
Because they have rich people?

Mexico has rich people but I sure as shit don't want to go there for medical care.
CamP
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2/9/2009 9:15pm
Farva wrote:
Because they have rich people?

Mexico has rich people but I sure as shit don't want to go there for medical care.
CR has a very high standard of living and has the third highest life expectancy in the world, ahead of the US.
Farva
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2/9/2009 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2009 9:22pm
Farva wrote:
Because they have rich people?

Mexico has rich people but I sure as shit don't want to go there for medical care.
CamP wrote:
CR has a very high standard of living and has the third highest life expectancy in the world, ahead of the US.
That sure as hell does not make me want to get medical care there. Edit: If health care was so great in CR they would not be taking him to Miami as soon as they medically can...
WORCSRacer
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2/9/2009 9:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
You guys crack me up. I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for...
You guys crack me up.


I think you guys should remember where he was, a country barely removed from 3rd World Status. He was performing for promoters that obviously hadn't thought through the danger and what can happen when things go wrong. Let's not pull anything if they had thought it through, trained staff would have been there, someone like Doc Bodner. You might also want to consider that most local events in the good ol' USA don't have a rider advocate either. Its just a fact in this sport.


Bad shit happens when things go wrong and this went wrong in a really bad way. You can go on for a long time trying to pin blame on someone but in the end this is about not being ready for the "when" because at that level there is no "if".
The_PU300 wrote:
are you retarded....? Been to San Jose (CR) lately? I can't watch the video. But, there are some seriously rich people in CR and you can...
are you retarded....? Been to San Jose (CR) lately? I can't watch the video. But, there are some seriously rich people in CR and you can bet that advanced medical care is AT LEAST on par with ours.

I just hope that he is able to make a recovery and come home.
As a matter of fact Mr. Retard yes I have I just went surfing there. And only in your wildest fucking dreams do they have more advanced medical care than in the USA. Having "seriously rich people" is absolutely no guarantee of quality medical care and particularly in regards to EMT personal. BTW the mexican video below is funny but true and for the record shithead a whole bunch of rich people live in Mexico too.





jemcee
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2/9/2009 10:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
When i broke my neck, the medics took what i'm told 30-40 minutes making sure my neck stayed as immobilised as possible.
When they operated they found a fragment of my vertabrae in the main artery the surgeon said she just nudged it and blood flew out and i lost 70% of my blood and spinal fluid. it was just lucky i was on the table. now if they had done to me what they did to lusk i would've been dead in seconds.
yamacrash
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2/9/2009 10:52pm
Hi Dave

What a tragedy!

I was gone surfing for the week, just got back to San Jose to find out about this awful incident.

FIM Medical Code for International Events, something that needs a serious review.

My prayers and best wishes to Lusk, family and friends



RMZ819
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2/10/2009 2:38am
You people need to remember that shit happens. From what I saw in that video Lusk was fucked from the go. Everyone feels the need to blame someone. If there is blame it has to go on lusk. He is the one that missed the jump not the EMT. Lusk took the chance on that jump and paid the ultimate price for coming up short. It sucks that it happened but that's the reality of the situation.

RIP Jeremy Lusk
flarider
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2/10/2009 4:47am
yamacrash wrote:
Hi Dave What a tragedy! I was gone surfing for the week, just got back to San Jose to find out about this awful incident. FIM...
Hi Dave

What a tragedy!

I was gone surfing for the week, just got back to San Jose to find out about this awful incident.

FIM Medical Code for International Events, something that needs a serious review.

My prayers and best wishes to Lusk, family and friends



Hi Orlando, it is a tragedy.

Was this at the same stadium?
sc961
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2/10/2009 5:20am
You people have no clue as to which type Lusk received.

We have a pretty good idea of the treatment he got trackside.

Most of us race or at least ride, and understand the danger aspect of what we do. When things go bad, we have a minimal expectation that the people on site to help in a serious crash will have decent training and at least not make things worse.

After seeing the video footage of Jeremy's crash, I'm not confident that happened. Did it change the outcome, we'll never know. Could it have been much better, it appears so.

RIP JL.
yamacrash
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2/10/2009 5:22am
No Dave, it's a different stadium with a severe wind factor (Saprisa). The one you talk about had a fog factor (Cartago).
The_PU300
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2/10/2009 6:56am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
WORCS- Costa Rica is a lot different than Mexico. If you went down there as a singular surfer then you might not have experienced the other side. I think we raced at Saprisa and everything was first class.... high tech and every precaution was taken to ensure our safety.

It is a sad day. GODSPEED Jeremy
KAWboy14
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2/10/2009 6:59am
Tiki wrote:
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know? They saw the trauma...
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know?

They saw the trauma unfold before their eyes. Knew what they were dealing with. Gently aligned his arms and legs, rolled him onto the backboard with head stabilization already on it. Strapped him to the backboard and GOT THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

That's it. So you can complain about the EMT's/MEDICS, but it appears from this side of YOUTUBE they did a great job. Did you want them to, I don't know? Sit around and asses that he may not be breathing? That would be a good thing huh. Watching him turn blue like his bike Fuck with his helmet strap?

Tell us Dave, in your wisdom what are they doing incorrectly? I mean you are a current ALS card holder Right?
I tend to agree with Tiki. The injury is absolutely brutal. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the damage to Lusk was done by the time the EMTs got...
I tend to agree with Tiki. The injury is absolutely brutal.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of the damage to Lusk was done by the time the EMTs got to him.
actually 100% of the damage was done before the emt's got to him!
rallendude
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2/10/2009 6:59am
You have all lost the point in all the arguing and posturing and chest thumping. Anyone who has been to mx races and seen accidents knows by looking at that video that Lusk was not handled properly. I don't care if there was no airway.

The first responders here did not handle the situation properly. If they were not trained EMT's then that's on the promoter. There appeared to be no attempt to communicate with the rider before moving any part of his body. It looks like that would have been with no response but FIRST you try to communicate. Not position him for a backboard that hasn't even gotten there yet. I don't want to watch again but it looked to me like the straps for the head restraint were dangling below the board as they ran off with him.

Some sort of transportation should have been brought to him. That 200 yard run was sickening. It appeared that the other rider was trying his best to steady Lusk's body.

It's too late now. Lusk is gone. But one has to wonder if things could have been different with a little better first response. I'd like to hear the other rider's perspective when he gets over the grief of losing a friend.
KAWboy14
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2/10/2009 7:02am
flagging at mx events is a way bigger issue than crappy paramedics!
FIFIFO
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2/10/2009 7:22am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
Holy sh!t...I seriously just got sick to my stomach watching how the EMT handled the situation. I broke my neck(C3) racing and thank god I wasn't taken care of in this matter.
Watching them pull his helmet off & running out of the arena was harder to watch then the actual crash....I'm sick!
bultokid
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2/10/2009 7:57am
Play the blame game till the end of time and debate US/World medical standards till the cows come home but I don't think that crash was survivable (yeah I know I'm no Dr ) but the human body wasn't built to withstand that amount of punishment. Godspeed JL and prayers to his family and friends.
CamP
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2/10/2009 8:16am
bultokid wrote:
Play the blame game till the end of time and debate US/World medical standards till the cows come home but I don't think that crash was...
Play the blame game till the end of time and debate US/World medical standards till the cows come home but I don't think that crash was survivable (yeah I know I'm no Dr ) but the human body wasn't built to withstand that amount of punishment. Godspeed JL and prayers to his family and friends.
Ditto.

RIP Lusk Sad
Void Main
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2/10/2009 8:38am
First of all my condolences to the Lusk family. Second of all IANAFD (not even close) but I thought about this thread a little bit on the way to work this morning.

Given all of what I have read about the situation and understand to be true I can't help but wonder if the way the paramedics handled this particular situation didn't turn out to give Jeremy the best possible chance of surviving even if it happened by complete accident and sheer incompetence. The reason I say this is because according to the reports Jeremy's neck was not broken but did have head trauma. In this particular case getting him to the hospital ASAP was probably the best thing.

I'm sure someone who is AFD will correct me if I am wrong. Of course, if he did have a broken neck then they could have caused much more damage than good so I am not saying that in general it is good not to do the ABCs, just that in this one single case it may have been beneficial that they didn't, assuming it got Jeremy to the hospital one minute sooner to begin treatment.
prillernut
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2/10/2009 9:43am
bultokid wrote:
Play the blame game till the end of time and debate US/World medical standards till the cows come home but I don't think that crash was...
Play the blame game till the end of time and debate US/World medical standards till the cows come home but I don't think that crash was survivable (yeah I know I'm no Dr ) but the human body wasn't built to withstand that amount of punishment. Godspeed JL and prayers to his family and friends.
CamP wrote:
Ditto.

RIP Lusk Sad
As another non-MD, I also concur.

I'm sure the discussion will erupt, but the feats today's pro freestyle guys are pulling look to be unsurvivable if things go badly, and it doesn't matter how much protective gear is worn or who is standing by to help.

RIP Jeremy...
jgmxdad251
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2/10/2009 10:03am
KAWboy14 wrote:
flagging at mx events is a way bigger issue than crappy paramedics!
Flagging is a problem, but so are the emt's. My son spirled his tib fib at glen helen. When I got over to him it was pretty obvious. The first thing i noticed about the emt's was she had open wounds on her hands and not wearing any gloves. I asked her to put him on back board, she said "no" and proceeded to pick him up with the other emt and throw him into the front of a rhino with his leg over the front bouncing up and down the whole way over to the ambulance.

Maybe there should be some sort of rating system for them, so you dont get the crappy emt's or the ones that dont care. I realize the sport is dangerous but we should have qualified emt's when we ride the track.

R.I.P. Jeremy Lusk.
2/10/2009 11:05am
Thoughts of another medic:

This was an absolute load and go situation. His best chance was to get to a top level trauma center ASAP. From the info that I have read, and from seeing the video, head trauma is unfortunately what did him in.

With that being said, I will go on to this. His neck could have been stabilized better. He should have been "logrolled" on to the board. Extremity trauma is not of concern here. The best spinal stabilization possible for the situation was important, keeping in mind that they absolutely needed to get to his airway quickly. The helmet should have been removed, because that did not allow access to the airway, and as someone else said, a helmet in this situation will actually detract from inline spinal immobilization. The blocks should have been closer to his head and his head taped down--this only takes a few seconds. Attention to the ABCs should have been started right away. Decreased respirations or not breathing at all increases the level of CO2 in the blood, and increased levels of CO2 leads to increased brain swelling (not something that is needed after such a severe blow), and rapid respirations are also a negative thing, so immediate assistance with the respirations should have happened if they were needed. After a few quick, important cares, the important thing was getting him the heck out of there and to the trauma center, and the sooner the better.

R.I.P. Jeremy Lusk.

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