Rad valve

Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:40am
So Boyesen says to lean the main jet after installing the rad valve. Why is that? I assumed the rad valve let's more air in the engine, so larger jets are needed. Can someone smarter than me explain why this is?
|
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
3/19/2008 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="queen of spodes":3ieery67]So Boyesen says to lean the main jet after installing the rad valve. Why is that? I assumed the rad valve let's more air in the engine, so larger jets are needed. Can someone smarter than me explain why this is?[/quote:3ieery67]

The Rad Valve increases the vacuum signal on the carb so more fuel is pulled into the engine, which causes a richer condition. You need to lean the jetting to compensate for this.
3/19/2008 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac
rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does. <img class= " title="Wink">
Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX US
3/19/2008 1:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="Foster576":1o2fo47w]Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac
rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does. <img class= " title="Wink">[/quote:1o2fo47w] <img class= " title="Laughing">
3/19/2008 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="Foster576":1zh53wqd]Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac
rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does. <img class= " title="Wink">[/quote:1zh53wqd]


Posi-Trac is a GM term. Mopar used the term Sure Grip. So to answer your question, it doesn't.

Just an FYI.

The Shop

3/19/2008 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="CamP":3obs2cpg]The Rad Valve increases the vacuum signal on the carb so more fuel is pulled into the engine, which causes a richer condition. You need to lean the jetting to compensate for this.[/quote:3obs2cpg]

My top end was rebuild a few months ago (new piston & rings) and it still pings - more now than before. It pings when I'm on the gas, especially in mid & upper RPMs. It is even worse when the weather warms up. I've lived with the pinging since I bought the bike 2 years ago, but after installing the RAD valve it's much worse.

I use 93 pump gas, haven't tried race gas and don't have easy access to it.

I want to try going one size larger on my main jet but I don't want to damage anything.
3/19/2008 2:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="T-Fish123":2vzah2ny]Posi-Trac is a GM term. Mopar used the term Sure Grip. So to answer your question, it doesn't.

Just an FYI.[/quote:2vzah2ny]

So your gonna' tell me that you don't have no black cats, no roman candles, or screaming mimis? You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chaser?
Klutch
Posts
138
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Milton CA
3/19/2008 2:09pm
i had the same problem, mix 50/50 race gas and you will be gold!
3/19/2008 2:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="Klutch":wcil7qxe]i had the same problem, mix 50/50 race gas and you will be gold![/quote:wcil7qxe]

I'm almost afraid to try race gas. It's too much bike for me as it is.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
3/19/2008 3:20pm
I dropped my main 1 step in winter 2 steps in summer with the rad valve on my 500. It really improved the engine responsiveness.

Race gas is good. Pump gas is liquified garbage these days.
3/19/2008 3:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="WhKnuckle":2vaxau9g]Race gas is good. Pump gas is liquified garbage these days.[/quote:2vaxau9g]

What about the 110 octane pump gas they sell near Road Atlanta? It's not advertised as race gas but is it safe to run in my bike?
3/19/2008 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2008 3:27pm
Higher octane gas won't hurt your engine. As long as it's for automotive use you'll be fine. Also, if you go up on the main jet the worst you could do to the engine is foul a sparkplug. It's when you start putting smaller jets in that you run the risk of seizing the engine.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
3/19/2008 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="queen of spodes":29xryqek][quote="WhKnuckle":29xryqek]Race gas is good. Pump gas is liquified garbage these days.[/quote:29xryqek]

What about the 110 octane pump gas they sell near Road Atlanta? It's not advertised as race gas but is it safe to run in my bike?[/quote:29xryqek]
I don't know about that - I haven't seen any 100+ pump gas in years. What kind of bike is it?

I'm sure it's plenty safe - race gas is just more consistent and is better in two strokes. Most bikes can run on pump gas safely, but they are more sensitive to jetting and if the gas is a little leaner than normal or the air is a little denser than normal or???, then they might ping some. With race gas, you pretty much jet it and forget it.
3/19/2008 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="WhKnuckle":19u7gooz]I don't know about that - I haven't seen any 100+ pump gas in years. What kind of bike is it? [/quote:19u7gooz]
it is a kx 250.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
3/19/2008 3:43pm
If it was me, I'd try higher octane and see if it helps. It's strange that it pings worse with the rad valve, but...have you checked with a shop to see if the existing jetting is pretty close to stock to begin with? If you're mechanically-inclined, pull the spark plug and see if the insulator is tan or if it's more toward pale white - if it's ligher, the bike is lean. Or if you have a good shop in the area, ask their service department what they think, and if you go to the track and there's a kawi shop sponsor there or a hop-up shop, ask them.

Pinging isn't good - sometimes it's not jetting; sometimes it's an air leak in the rad valve manifold or even (heaven forbid) left side crank seal. I'd talk to some people who can ride it and listen to it, pull the plug and see if it's the right color, stuff like that.
babba boey
Posts
358
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Kuna, ID US
3/19/2008 3:51pm
My KX 250 did the same thing. If you can find VP C12 mix it 50/50 and the bike will run great. The bike will be easier to ride because you will have better throttle response. Try finding a car performance shop and they will tell you where to find race fuel.
3/19/2008 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
edited..
My bike starts very easily.. usually on the 2nd or 3rd kick. I've never fouled a plug and it feels very crisp. I always turn the gas off after riding (usually a minute before to make sure most of the gas is out of the carb).

So...

I just took my carburetor off. My main is 155 and pilot is 142, both one step down from stock jetting (according to Clymer anyway).

[img:1b6q2d30]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/queen_of_spodes/mx/S6300747.jpg…]

[img:1b6q2d30]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/queen_of_spodes/mx/S6300749.jpg…]

[img:1b6q2d30]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/queen_of_spodes/mx/S6300750.jpg…]

So if it's pinging and my plug isn't tan, does that mean the crank seal is bad? The rad valve bolts are snug and it has a brand new gasket.
3/19/2008 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="Foster576":2nekmydi]Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac
rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does. <img class= " title="Wink">[/quote:2nekmydi]

Daaang!
3/19/2008 4:08pm
Are you running an aftermarket pipe? If you are, that plus the RAD valve will flow more air through the engine, which requires richening the fuel mixture. It shouldn't ping on premium pump gas. I'd get some of the 110 and see if that solves the problem. If the fuel mix is too lean, or the ignition side seal is leaking(which will also make the mixture too lean), higher octane fuel won't help you.

I just read your last post. With the rad valve, and especially if you have an aftermarket pipe, you'd want to go up from stock on the jet sizes
3/19/2008 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="harescrambled":34wuxu26]Are you running an aftermarket pipe? [/quote:34wuxu26]
Yes it has a FMF pipe and silencer. (and a flywheel weight according to the last owner)
partialperson
Posts
410
Joined
11/6/2006
Location
Murphysboro, IL US
3/19/2008 4:40pm
If it is an FMF SST it will contribute to a lean condition because of pulse reversion, causing detonation, sometimes even eroding the piston crown. With an SST I would recommend a richer main. If not an SST, or even if, 1st try richening up your needle, lowering the clip from the top, raising the needle out of the main jet. I would try at least 2 grooves to start. If it woofs alot of smoke off idle when you crack the throttle you've went to far in most cases but maybe just right in your situation.
3/19/2008 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="queen of spodes":2bpx4qb0][quote="harescrambled":2bpx4qb0]Are you running an aftermarket pipe? [/quote:2bpx4qb0]
Yes it has a FMF pipe and silencer. (and a flywheel weight according to the last owner)[/quote:2bpx4qb0]

Then you probably do need to lower the clip on the jet needle, and most likely go up at least one size on the main jet.
I would try the high octane pump gas first, and see if that helps you out. It's got better knock/ping resistance, and probably a different density than the premium 92/93 gas. If that doesn't help you then I would change the jetting as mentioned above.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
3/19/2008 5:19pm
Take a look at the needle, too, and see what position the clip is in. It sounds like it's only pinging at WFO throttle, which should be pretty much main jet only, but it wouldn't hurt to put the clip into a lower notch to raise it up one position. On a 250, you spend quite a bit of time at partial throttle, more than you may think, and if it's a tad lean there, you could ping a little. You'll usually know if you get it too rich, it just won't feel clean and crisp.

Looking at the plug, it doesn't look likely that you have a leaking crank seal.

Higher octane gas sounds like the ticket to me, though. 2 strokes don't seem to do well on pump gas that has a lot of ethanol, like a lot of blends do these days.
LIVEWIRE
Posts
351
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Canyon Lake, CA US
3/19/2008 7:48pm
06 YZ 125, I installed the Boyesen Rad and off idle it bogged and pinged, took it out ran fine again, called boysen they told me to lean it out, I was thinking bigger pilot and main, have Doma pipe and Pro Circuit silencer, please advise
3/19/2008 8:52pm
take a better pic of that plug with the macro setting and less blurry.

do you let that thing idle much and put around quite a bit?

you have so many quirks going on there you better slow down and think this through. let's see a good pic of plug first before we start changing the jetting.

how do you even know it's detonating, could your chain be slapping the swingarm causing that noise?
3/20/2008 3:53am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="williamsmotowerx":2j4qhy2g]take a better pic of that plug with the macro setting and less blurry.

do you let that thing idle much and put around quite a bit?

how do you even know it's detonating, could your chain be slapping the swingarm causing that noise?[/quote:2j4qhy2g]

That's the best my camera can do. Sorry.

I don't idle much at all. Sometimes I put around but clear it out every few minutes. Most of the time I ride like DV12 & Trey Canard gooning, but not on purpose. lol.

So, when I accelerate on the track the engine makes loud pinging (like big needles clicking together) noises. If I let off the throttle the pinging stops. If I only open it up halfway there is slightly less of the pinging. If the weather is warm I really notice it. When it's in the 40s and 50s it doesn't ping much at all.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
3/20/2008 4:11am
To me, that sounds more like you need more octane in the gas than jetting. It could be a little lean, but the plug doesn't show it (to get good readings you really need to use a new plug, run it real hard for just a few minutes and then read it). Also, if it was pinging because it's lean, that usually gets worse when it's cold because then the air is denser. Just my .02 worth, but I'd try race gas or that high-octane pump gas you were talking about and see if that helps. When you try that out, take a main jet that's one size larger and if it still pings, go up one size on the main, raise the needle one notch and see if that does anything. Again, though, if it's purely a lean condition it should get worse when it's colder.
3/20/2008 10:46am
whknuckle is right, just throw some 110 in there and ride it... my guess it will still ping... showing that you have another problem and this is a mechanical noise. (not actual detonation pinging)
Knobbyjake
Posts
806
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
West Middlesex, PA US
3/20/2008 11:02am
If you have an auto parts store or Walmart nearby you can buy octane booster there if you can't get race gas.
alphado
Posts
4041
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Erie, PA US
3/20/2008 11:12am
Williams, you got any pipes lying around for a 2005 KX250?
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
3/20/2008 11:18am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:25pm
[quote="Knobbyjake":38od8h2q]If you have an auto parts store or Walmart nearby you can buy octane booster there if you can't get race gas.[/quote:38od8h2q]

Most octane booster are nothing more than overpriced Toluene. The problem with Toluene is that when you add enough to make the bike quit pinging, you lose throttle response.

I'd suggest that she start running 1/2 pump premium and 1/2 VP C12

Post a reply to: Rad valve

The Latest