BBMX Insider Opinion story

He comes off as a bitch.

If it's too much for him, it's time to find another hobby.


Where do they (butler racing) get their money from?

That site, atleast that article, is way off center for me in firefox anyone else have that problem?

1,500 entries at Lake Whitney and they all want a little piece of the above Pro MX/SX lifestyle.
Kind of makes you wonder!!??!!

I really don't get all this. Complaining about the entry fees and purse money, etc.-- everyone seems to be doing it.

Somehow, when this sport started, people were content to ride around the country in crappy Chevy vans, pit their bikes on milk crates, and basically scrape by. Now they complain about road surfaces at National venues and what it may do to their six-figure semis.

They are the problem, their attitude is what made it all what it is now, that they should have everything just perfect, that it should all be a windfall and be living in some comfortable dream, even when they aren't even near being podium quality riders. Did 15th-place guys in 1979 complain about turning a profit? They either sucked it in because they loved to ride, or else went into construction. If the $ arent working, pare down your program, or work the whole slew of other riders to force a change, or start a new deal.

I once read an interview by some surfer. He talked about how from its humble beginnings, it grew and then diverged into a "competition" side, not unlike beauty pageants with all its superficiality and politics, and the side that just loved to ride without all that crap. Seems like motocross has done the same sort of thing.

[quote="huck":246f2g45]He comes off as a bitch.

If it's too much for him, it's time to find another hobby.


Where do they (butler racing) get their money from?[/quote:246f2g45]

Sure, find another hobby. Then we'll be down to 29 riders showing up for a 450 main. How about someone interested in promoting MX/SX get off their duffs and find some people with money that want to support the sport. My guess is they get their money from the same place every other semi pulling team gets it, sponsors.

My thoughts on the promotion thing. Our company was struggling severely about ten years ago. Coal that was used for steam (power generation) sold for about $50/ton and it cost us about $50/ton to get it to market. There's no money in that. Meanwhile, coal being used to make steel (high BTU coal, which is what we mine) was selling at a higher price. Most of our coal at the time was sold as steam coal. Well, it didn't take long for marketing people here to realize that and pursue the met market. Now, the company makes money hand over fist selling met coal. 70% or more of our product is sold to steel industry now. All it took was a quick look at the market and a change in how we marketed ourselves.

It's great to see all the Thor and Kawi ads on TV for the races - even Toyota and what have you. What ever happened to Jeff Glass and his TIDE sponsor? What about Simple Green, the most widely used bike cleaner in the country? How about WD-40, or GoJo, or Scotchbrite? 3M's got deep pockets. Are there people in the industry getting Nike, Reebok, and who ever else to look into MX gear, or even casual stuff aimed at MX? Fox hats and t-shirts are selling at malls. There's a market for our sport out there in the public. I know racers and team owners have looked into this sort of thing but how about Live Nation? Why don't they look at a bigger picture. If they want SX to be the next Nascrap then they need to look outside the sport for dollars, BIG DOLLARS. Same goes for whom ever gets the Nationals.

We need the big dollars from Coca-cola, Mountain Dew, Nike, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. I hope Joe Gibbs racing has a good year this year an sticks with it. If anyone has a chance to bring in big dog outside sponsors it's them. It wouldn't bother me to see the factory teams operate under other corporate names like the car racing if it means the riders and racers get better treatment and more money out of it.

Personally, I don't want our sport to grow. The more it grows...the less riding areas, and more flat billers.


Our sport will NEVER be to the level of Nascar and it is foolish to think it will.

[quote:2a1qkocj]What ever happened to Jeff Glass and his TIDE sponsor? [/quote:2a1qkocj]
It was Surf (Proctor and Gamble) not Tide... but relevant points...I dunno ..in the end will it contribute to the growth of the sport or further restrict participation to those who arrive at the races in some corporations semi ?? MX has always had an accessibility to the average local racer beyond that of Nascar or NHRA or SCCA, they need to return to qualifiers for local guys to try and make the show imo...

What a ripoff. The entry fees are a scam.

[quote="Rallendude":1w18i2cu][quote="huck":1w18i2cu]He comes off as a bitch.

If it's too much for him, it's time to find another hobby.


Where do they (butler racing) get their money from?[/quote:1w18i2cu]

It's great to see all the Thor and Kawi ads on TV for the races - even Toyota and what have you. What ever happened to Jeff Glass and his TIDE sponsor? What about Simple Green, the most widely used bike cleaner in the country? How about WD-40, or GoJo, or Scotchbrite? 3M's got deep pockets. Are there people in the industry getting Nike, Reebok, and who ever else to look into MX gear, or even casual stuff aimed at MX? Fox hats and t-shirts are selling at malls. There's a market for our sport out there in the public. I know racers and team owners have looked into this sort of thing but how about Live Nation? Why don't they look at a bigger picture. If they want SX to be the next Nascrap then they need to look outside the sport for dollars, BIG DOLLARS. Same goes for whom ever gets the Nationals.

We need the big dollars from Coca-cola, Mountain Dew, Nike, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. I hope Joe Gibbs racing has a good year this year an sticks with it. If anyone has a chance to bring in big dog outside sponsors it's them. It wouldn't bother me to see the factory teams operate under other corporate names like the car racing if it means the riders and racers get better treatment and more money out of it.[/quote:1w18i2cu]

Maybe its not a sound business decision to market thru SX? You don't think anyone has tried to get Big $$ sponsors? Or if they have tried , they were all incompetent? Face it, for a vast majority of people, SX is something they go to once a year that is like a Monster Jam show, except its real competition. It's a novelty.

Forrest is a good guy who is really trying hard to do the best he can for everyone, team, riders and sponsors.
He's not selling anyone short, he delivers everything he promises and more and he tries to be fair to everyone.
He only wants the same in return from the AMA and the promoters, not just for himself but for his team, riders and sponsors.
BBMX has been screwed over, left out, ignored and treated like second class citizens from day one when it was just the brothers, all because he didn't have a rockstar race team...even though his pit set up was more professional than many factory teams.
Forrest is the guy who'll tell you that teams like him are treated like shit, everyone else is afraid to.

So you tell me, who's the bitch?
The guy willing to stand up and speak up or the guy willing to lie down and take it in silence?

FB as well as his brothers is a graduate of the University of Florida. That makes them smarter than about 96% of the folks that run moto. His family owns or owned (I think it merged) the oldest insurance agency in Miami. He works there and is a businessman. He makes some very valid points. What if say WD 40, Simple Green etc each kicked in say $25,000 to an outdoor purse/points fund? That's peanuts for a company compared to say NASCAR. The obvious answer is the riders need to form a union and elect Forrest to lead them. Watch BBMX or some other team jump over to YS/FIM if we end up with tow series here in the US.

[quote="flarider":1ap9dvw1]
BBMX has been screwed over, left out, ignored and treated like second class citizens from day one when it was just the brothers, all because he didn't have a rockstar race team...[/quote:1ap9dvw1]


That's the way things work when you start on the road to exclude folks rather than trying to be more inclusive.....

I've been working for Forrest and butlerbrothersmx team for 3 years now. In that short time I have seen the team grow so much it's just mind boggling. Every year there are satellite/privateer teams that come and go, but BBMX has grown every year. When I started in 05, They had a Funmover as their rig. Now, in 2008, they have two full fledge semis in the pit area with 7 riders on the team. BBMX has more presence in the pit area and on the track than a few of the other teams on the circuit.
Forrest has given opportunities to up and coming riders that would normally have fallen by the wayside.
But all this growth and still our team get's no respect from the AMA, other teams or even the media for that matter(not all mind you). We have one magazine that will not publish anything BBMX related because of media drama, which has nothing to do with the team. It's sad that one of the biggest teams in SX, that has done it their own way gets treated so poorly.

Forrest is the most stand up guy I know and also the hardest working person I know in the industry. He has so many things to keep track of it's crazy sometimes. We might not have the biggest name riders on the team, but we have a strong presence and we are in the mix every weekend. I for one am proud to be a part of his organization.

It's pretty simple. Like any other industry or endeavor, there's only so many dollars available, and the exceptional, stand-out performers are the ones to get it. The rest have to figure out how to survive with crumbs or else go find something else to do.
I don't think Trey Canard or Nico Izzi were ever worried about AMA entry fees, for example.

I don't know why anyone, or any team, should expect to be successful or excel in this game without actually having top-notch talent. This isnt a charity or public service. If you have a problem not making money at something you don't stand out at, it's not because its "broken", it's because you wont accept reality.

You'll have to forgive me if I come across as naive with noob tendencies, but I promise I've read as much information as I could about the controversy revolving around AMA and the issues concerning money. It seems to me that there are two main issues that really stand out: One, the governing body that dictates how money is distributed and Two, the lack of an effective marketing effort in order to, in essence, give motocross and supercross the respect it deserves. Perhaps what AMA needs to do is open up there books and allow people to see where the money goes, something similar to OMBwatch.org and our federal government. Maybe then, we can begin to understand whether or member dues, rider fees, etc. are being put to good use or not or even better, analyze everything in order to optimize performance and processes (you'd be surprised how many big name companies and organizations throughout public/private sector drastically improve their firm by optimizing processes through data analysis). Moreover, maybe the AMA or promoters (whether that's SX or MX) need to seek out some sort of marketing god in order to develop a new campaign for reaching/penetrating untapped markets. Got MX? Once again, I apologize if I come across as simple or narrow minded, just trying to stir the pot. Btw, I'm impressed with the intuitive thinkers on on motodrive and vitalmx that are either well researched or have deep insight on the nature of the sport because of their involvement.

[quote="4mxonly":tvoqw8bw]You'll have to forgive me if I come across as naive with noob tendencies, but I promise I've read as much information as I could about the controversy revolving around AMA and the issues concerning money. It seems to me that there are two main issues that really stand out: One, the governing body that dictates how money is distributed and Two, the lack of an effective marketing effort in order to, in essence, give motocross and supercross the respect it deserves. Perhaps what AMA needs to do is open up there books and allow people to see where the money goes, something similar to OMBwatch.org and our federal government. Maybe then, we can begin to understand whether or member dues, rider fees, etc. are being put to good use or not or even better, analyze everything in order to optimize performance and processes (you'd be surprised how many big name companies and organizations throughout public/private sector drastically improve their firm by optimizing processes through data analysis). Moreover, maybe the AMA or promoters (whether that's SX or MX) need to seek out some sort of marketing god in order to develop a new campaign for reaching/penetrating untapped markets. Got MX? Once again, I apologize if I come across as simple or narrow minded, just trying to stir the pot. Btw, I'm impressed with the intuitive thinkers on on motodrive and vitalmx that are either well researched or have deep insight on the nature of the sport because of their involvement.[/quote:tvoqw8bw]


The government body doesn't dictate how the money is distributed, at least in the case of the riders. They wet minimums, but they are ridiculously low........

They do not want outside sponsorship... (Live nation) SX (NPG) MX.. Those series are cash cows for them... They do not want anybody to change anything.. They have ran off all potential sponsors.. (Chevy Trucks, EA sports, Subway, Gillette, etc..)
And if they were not such moneymakers, then why do they fight so hard to keep there rights??? ( Jam-sports, and now YS )

Thats what happens when you go out and the sell "exclusives." Its a double edge sword. You sell the rights to Monster, PU, FMF and so forth and they are happy because they get the exclusive rights to the series for their dollars. However, you just alienated all the other companies that would like to purchase sponsorships or be involed. Now FOX, TR, RedBull, alt etc are left out in the cold. I understand the reasoning for securing a series sponsor but IMHO its short sighted and leaves a lot of money on the table.

Greed, $$, politics, power struggles/too many cooks in the kitchen = Downfall of any organization. Period.

Forrest is a good guy. Been friends since we were kids and I wish him all the luck. Maybe he can start something and see results before BBMX runs its course. Being behind the scenes for years in AMA and FIM moto, its pretty well known unless you have a core business(PC, FC ect.), team owners are pissing their life savings away running these teams chasing a title or an ego. Running a team as large as these guys do, in a economic downturn is a tough proposition. Having to part time the real series is a sign things are fucked at the not so tippy top level of the sport. Love of the sport can only take you so far, until the money runs out. Hey ,these guys went out and did what most of us only dream about. I wish them the best of luck, Todd

[quote:27c4xl0f]"docweedon"] We have one magazine that will not publish anything BBMX related because of media drama, which has nothing to do with the team. It's sad that one of the biggest teams in SX, that has done it their own way gets treated so poorly.[/quote:27c4xl0f]



Media drama? I don't get it, please explain.

Huck. go fuck yureself.
OldTiddler. go fuck yurself.

There are 4sure ALOT of things that need to be changed to better the sport of MX/SX for better racing, sponsors, money for the riders, track facilities, tracks themselves, etc.

Flatbillers need to go.

I just don't see how anyone could have anything negative to say after reading FB's blog. You must simply just have no clue in hell about the sport, why are you even on a message board dedicated to it??? I really cant understand it. Entry fees have gone up and up every single year for the past 7 years... They use to be $50 in 2001... I know, I paid them. And in 2001 yet the purse was exactly the same.. $525 for sx, $225 for lites night shows... a pro card for the year used to be 150 for lites sx/mx and 200 for dual class sx/mx. Also you were allowed to race both classes, which helped to actually turn a profit each weekend. Now that riding both classes isn't allowed, entry fees and credentials are astronomical, the cost of racing is higher... it sure seems like there could be a slight adjustment in the purse for crying out loud. And these 2 brainless fucks have the nerve to bash a guy letting the public know about it. Wow. Please come explain you're reasoning to me, I'll be at a SX near you, if you can figure out you're way to the pits.

Well Paul this is a forum. Forrest put it out there so people will give it both ways. PR is not your forte.

Parajamies don't know nuthin'

[quote="OldTiddler":p8nicimi][i:p8nicimi]The rest have to figure out how to survive with crumbs or else go find something else to do.[/i:p8nicimi][/quote:p8nicimi]

I think that way of thinking is complete BS.

There are more than 2 choices. Why are the only choices "deal with what's on the table or do something else? The Hollywood writers just displayed another choice.

For starters, choice #3 is to organize and fight for better terms. A union and negotiating power is way overdue for the riders.

This sport has always been hard on the guys and teams outside the top ten. Period. Costs always go up every year. When has it ever been a transparent system? These are not new issues. Its the reason most never try to do what he has done. What Forrest is saying is fact. Maybe he will light the fire of change. Maybe he will get pushed even further out now that he's speaking out. At least his riders have a guy like him right now, at this point in their carreers. You gotta like what he has done for his riders, all of them, but in the short term maybe a smaller budget, less riders, less staff and less semis is the only way to go forward until the next boom hits. Been to a dealership lately? Its as bad as its ever been. Retail on all sides is weak except for the crack sodas. Budgets get smaller not bigger after a year like this. Major change to the system is going to be tough without a riders union. Problem is most of the these guys dont have the time or motivation to take on the establishment. There are maybe 4 guys in the crop that the money men in charge will even think about making concessions to. Now we have 16yr old rookies winning right away, commanding large sums of money. They wont be any help at the bargaining table. And with YS breathing down our necks, watch out. Entry per rider at a GP is $1700 per event. Paid by the team.
How does WW do it? Donations? Maybe a team coalition to strongarm the promoters into giving them some more of the pie? Doubt it can be done but it would be a great thing to witness. Maybe thats Forrest's future, fighting for the little guy. Just does not have the same ring as team owner,manager and test rider. More power to him though, we've got his back.

I would call an event where the competitors pay out more to enter than they receive if they win it...an exposition, not a competition. Might as well charge all the sponsors to outfit bikes and riders with graphics and hold a parade instead of a race.