Herlings wins 50th Grand Prix!

RandyS
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3/28/2016 3:00pm
There once was a guy nicknamed Bubba, he destroyed the kids class. People predicted he was going to erase every record in the books and then click it up a gear. He fell a bit short, nothing is a given.
PDiddy241
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3/28/2016 3:06pm
RandyS wrote:
There once was a guy nicknamed Bubba, he destroyed the kids class. People predicted he was going to erase every record in the books and then...
There once was a guy nicknamed Bubba, he destroyed the kids class. People predicted he was going to erase every record in the books and then click it up a gear. He fell a bit short, nothing is a given.
James started racing 250 SX a few days after he turned 19. Maybe he should have stayed on a 125/250F!
KirkChandler
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3/28/2016 3:20pm
James dominated the 125 class. 2 SX and 2 MX titles in three years, he won every national he entered in 2003 after coming back from injury. He went 23-1 in 2004. If he would have stayed another year in 125's he would have been vilified for being a sandbagger too.

Could you imagine if James stayed down for 2005, he would have won outdoors again, Tedesco and Alessi would have not been a match for James outdoors (he pointed out of 125SX). And then 2006 would have been his rookie year and RC's final full season. Instead it was an epic season of the two legends going at it full bore.

We want to see the best riders race the best riders.One rider winning constantly in a lower division cheats the fans out of the monumental show down. We most likely will not see Cairoli and Herlings race each other straight up, and if that happens that's a disgrace.
brimx153
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3/28/2016 3:22pm
i dont like him . but i feel when he move s up to the 450s . he will kill everyone in mx1 too . i also feel he is way faster than kroc is outdoors now . look at Febvre and Gajser .how well they are doing and how fast they are . yet when herlings was beating them by a mile they were called terrible riders . its just Herlings is that good .

The Shop

Stoop
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3/28/2016 3:22pm
Did he beat Musquin or Roczen?
Stoop wrote:
He barely beat Searle
didnt he lap Searle in Lierop ?
Didn't Searle have 3 mechanicals that cost him any chance for the title?
MXMattii
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3/28/2016 3:24pm
Because of Herlings, I'm thinking that it would be better to delete the MX2 class. The best MX2 riders can go up to MXGP or go the the US and the guys who aren't up to the task can drop to the EMX250. One big MXGP World championship with all manufactures represented by 3 or 4 riders. I know stupid.
hillbilly
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3/28/2016 3:24pm
If JH comes to unidiller or wich,dont know if the schedule permits, and the bike felt good he could win,the pressure would probably be big but damn,if someone would pull up on him my god the race we would have.

No way in hell he would let off.
51xc
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3/28/2016 4:02pm
HenryA wrote:
More like Roczen got tired of the walk-in-the-park MX2 series and went on to win the most prestige motocross title in the world... :whistle: [IMG]http://www.promotocross.com/sites/default/files/images/cta/ken_roczen_450_moto_2_utah_rice_0622_1280.jpg[/IMG]
More like Roczen got tired of the walk-in-the-park MX2 series and went on to win the most prestige motocross title in the world... Whistling
you realise he won that 450 mx title in his 450 rookie year?! sounds just as much as a walk in the park to me.

about herlings: I honestly think only tomac and rv are the only guys in the past 5 years who have the outright speed to beat herlings at any given time. everyone else really would need a perfect race to finish infront of herlings. just my 0.02
Jimmy_Sloan
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3/28/2016 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2016 4:45pm
If there is no comparison, then why did you compare them? I wonder if all the people saying that Herlings is sandbagging (can't do that in...
If there is no comparison, then why did you compare them?

I wonder if all the people saying that Herlings is sandbagging (can't do that in the pro class, but people seem to gloss over that) would say the same thing about Mark Barnett, Jeff Ward, and Johnny O'Mara, all who stayed numerous years in the 125 class?
kzizok wrote:
Not true about no sandbagging as a pro. If there is a higher class(MX1) to advance to then a pro can sandbag in the lower class...
Not true about no sandbagging as a pro. If there is a higher class(MX1) to advance to then a pro can sandbag in the lower class (MX2). Having that been said, if he dominates MX1, then so be it. No sandbagging there as that is the pinnacle of the classes.
If that's the case, then someone could argue that such and such is the premiere series and anyone who doesn't race it, is sandbagging. So we could say that all those years SE72 dominated, that he was sandbagging because the premier series of the time was here. Or, that Cairoli has been sandbagging, or that RV was sandbagging. Staying in a class that you are qualified to stay in at the professional level is not sandbagging.
Jimmy_Sloan
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3/28/2016 4:48pm
James dominated the 125 class. 2 SX and 2 MX titles in three years, he won every national he entered in 2003 after coming back from...
James dominated the 125 class. 2 SX and 2 MX titles in three years, he won every national he entered in 2003 after coming back from injury. He went 23-1 in 2004. If he would have stayed another year in 125's he would have been vilified for being a sandbagger too.

Could you imagine if James stayed down for 2005, he would have won outdoors again, Tedesco and Alessi would have not been a match for James outdoors (he pointed out of 125SX). And then 2006 would have been his rookie year and RC's final full season. Instead it was an epic season of the two legends going at it full bore.

We want to see the best riders race the best riders.One rider winning constantly in a lower division cheats the fans out of the monumental show down. We most likely will not see Cairoli and Herlings race each other straight up, and if that happens that's a disgrace.
Why wasn't James sandbagging in his third season in the 125 class? He clearly was the dominate rider and could have moved up. Where do your arbitrary numbers come from? James wasn't sandbagging in his third season but would have been in a fourth season? Who gets to decide the standard here?
KirkChandler
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3/28/2016 5:12pm
Why wasn't James sandbagging in his third season in the 125 class? He clearly was the dominate rider and could have moved up. Where do your...
Why wasn't James sandbagging in his third season in the 125 class? He clearly was the dominate rider and could have moved up. Where do your arbitrary numbers come from? James wasn't sandbagging in his third season but would have been in a fourth season? Who gets to decide the standard here?
True. He was sand bagging in 2004. But it would have been even worse if he continued to stay down in 2005, and then did it again in 2006, and again in 2007.

He could have moved up after 2003. At that point he had won 1 125SX and 1 125 outdoor title. I think he could have competed right away in the 250 SX class, it would have made it a better season instead of Reed walking away with it with limited challenge from KDub and James would have given RC a challenge during RC's second perfect season. But he stayed down and dominated winning races by over a minute. He just didn't do it for 6 years.

I think the history of AMA racing a top rider racing 3 seasons of 125/250F is/was the norm. And most after winning 3 125/250F national titles moved out of the class, I'm not saying it was right. But Glover won 3 in a row, then Barnett won 3 in a row, then RC won 3 in a row. Same with RV winning 3 in a row, Martin now going for 3 in a row. James didn't win 3 titles, he moved up because it was time in 2005. Herlings hasn't won his 3 titles, but it is time already.

In 125/250F SX winning 2 titles bumps you out of the class. But it is a regional class, not a national championship.
hillbilly
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3/28/2016 5:27pm
Does Charlotte conflict with the AMA series?

That would be a good test,new track nobody knows,straight up fair.

I just dont see anybody that could have ran with him today or any day that he is on game and whoever's name you want to put up against him and let them be on their game to,he still pulls away.

He is a freak,anomaly,enjoy. I hope he stays healthy till Charlotte so we can see it in person.
3/28/2016 7:13pm
Gosh the cluelessnes is very widespread round here.
Respect for a rider? Unobtanium
Park Boys
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3/28/2016 7:39pm
hillbilly wrote:
Does Charlotte conflict with the AMA series? That would be a good test,new track nobody knows,straight up fair. I just dont see anybody that could have...
Does Charlotte conflict with the AMA series?

That would be a good test,new track nobody knows,straight up fair.

I just dont see anybody that could have ran with him today or any day that he is on game and whoever's name you want to put up against him and let them be on their game to,he still pulls away.

He is a freak,anomaly,enjoy. I hope he stays healthy till Charlotte so we can see it in person.
I'm hoping Webb goes there, So we can actually see a good race. I also heard Martin was gonna go to Glen Helen last year just to race JH84, so maybe he will this year too.
Park Boys
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3/28/2016 7:41pm
True. He was sand bagging in 2004. But it would have been even worse if he continued to stay down in 2005, and then did it...
True. He was sand bagging in 2004. But it would have been even worse if he continued to stay down in 2005, and then did it again in 2006, and again in 2007.

He could have moved up after 2003. At that point he had won 1 125SX and 1 125 outdoor title. I think he could have competed right away in the 250 SX class, it would have made it a better season instead of Reed walking away with it with limited challenge from KDub and James would have given RC a challenge during RC's second perfect season. But he stayed down and dominated winning races by over a minute. He just didn't do it for 6 years.

I think the history of AMA racing a top rider racing 3 seasons of 125/250F is/was the norm. And most after winning 3 125/250F national titles moved out of the class, I'm not saying it was right. But Glover won 3 in a row, then Barnett won 3 in a row, then RC won 3 in a row. Same with RV winning 3 in a row, Martin now going for 3 in a row. James didn't win 3 titles, he moved up because it was time in 2005. Herlings hasn't won his 3 titles, but it is time already.

In 125/250F SX winning 2 titles bumps you out of the class. But it is a regional class, not a national championship.
Barnett was a lifer in the 125 class though.
3/28/2016 7:56pm
Trying to remember the last time an American finished ahead of Jeffrey......
3/28/2016 8:25pm
food for thought.
Tortelli
Albertyn
Pichon
Vuillemin
Reed
Langston
Townley
All left Europe in their prime and were all slated to race against and did race against the one guy who stayed behind and went on to win 10 World Titles.
zehn
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3/28/2016 8:27pm
The Source wrote:
Trying to remember the last time an American finished ahead of Jeffrey......
Trying to remember the last time The Source added something to a conversation...
3/28/2016 9:59pm
The Source wrote:
Trying to remember the last time an American finished ahead of Jeffrey......
zehn wrote:
Trying to remember the last time The Source added something to a conversation...
Actually trying to remember the last time an American wasn't lapped by Jeffery
mumhra
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3/28/2016 10:47pm
Tim507 wrote:
I do not see him as a sandbagger.... He is in the correct age category He is a[b] professional[/b] earning an income (and bonus) on a...
I do not see him as a sandbagger....

He is in the correct age category
He is a professional earning an income (and bonus) on a contract
He is involved in a very dangerous occupation - earn it baby as it can all end tomorrow!!

More power to himGrinning
correct age category ?

Maybe... but not really. When Youthstream came up with the age limit in MX2 (i hate that rule but ok) there was an extra line in the rulebook
1. When you turn 23 you must move up to MXGP
2. When you are under 23 and you have won 2 world championships in MX2 you must move up to MXGP

But when Jeffrey won his 2nd title, in 2013, KTM started complaining against Luongo. They did not want Jeffrey to move up. They had Cairoli in MX1 to win the title and they wanted to keep Jeffrey in MX2 so they could win both titles. Because Luongo really has a soft spot for KTM that rule got dropped in favour of KTM/Herlings.

Jeffrey is by far the best MX2 rider in Europe, and he probably is the best MX rider in Europe as well. And he is one of the best MX riders in the world, so i really wonder why the hell he still is riding circles around his competitors in MX2 class. For the records ? For his 50 GP victories. Well.. the record means shit. All the better riders are moving up to the higher classes and Jeffrey is still racing against guys who are really no competition for him.

In the old days people could stay in their class for as long as they wanted. And so it should be. Some riders are just not build for the bigger bike. Alessio Chiodi comes to mind. So in the old days some of the better riders could stay in the smaller class so back then it was more difficult to win so many GP's in the small category.

We all know Jeffrey is one of the best riders in the world. So move up and race against the big boys. We know he can beat the kids.
willie838
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3/28/2016 11:16pm
he's a tremendous rider

really hard to compare records across ages.

it killed me last year when he couldn't make dilla, just brutal.

american heat, american pace on american soil? i have faith in our best 250 riders.

and if he were on a 450? dungey or tomac would have him covered.

why?

cuz murrica.
Flip109
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3/29/2016 12:21am
Olson wrote:
It's not even a challenge browsing this thread on a phone and guess what country every poster comes from.
I'm on my phone 90% of the time, and have always thought this lol
Aryen
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3/29/2016 1:15am
Guys, he's only 23 and he started racing Gp's at the age of 15. Just like a guy named Roczen who can now be considered a...
Guys, he's only 23 and he started racing Gp's at the age of 15. Just like a guy named Roczen who can now be considered a Vet of the 450 class, while young Jeff is still in the kids class.
He's 21. Cut the guy some slack. He'll be humiliating your favourite rider(s) soon.

The best thing is: deep down everybody knows it, even the fiercest namecallers.

I'm disappointed too he decided to stay down another year. Next year he'll be on the big bike, no matter what KTM wants.
roninho
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3/29/2016 3:10am
MXMattii wrote:
Because of Herlings, I'm thinking that it would be better to delete the MX2 class. The best MX2 riders can go up to MXGP or go...
Because of Herlings, I'm thinking that it would be better to delete the MX2 class. The best MX2 riders can go up to MXGP or go the the US and the guys who aren't up to the task can drop to the EMX250. One big MXGP World championship with all manufactures represented by 3 or 4 riders. I know stupid.
Why get rid of the class??? Why would you want less professional classes? And less money to be spend on the guys outside of top 10 MXGP?
Sunday in Valkenswaard Jeffrey dewulf got a 15th place. There are at least 10 guys (probably closer to 20) that have a similar or better pace that are not in GP's right now because the money isn't there. Getting rid of an MX2 class will just mean even more guys that don't have job.


agn5009
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3/29/2016 3:35am
He's entered 86 GP's but has 90 fastest laps? I'm assuming you're saying fastest lap of the day, so how's that even possible?
VET176
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3/29/2016 3:52am
"sand bagging. To deliberately perform at a lower level than you are capable of."

I've changed my mind. If sand bagging means the above then Herlings is not guilty of this.

He has every right to be racing in MX2, and has never deliberately performed at a lower level to stay in the class.

Maybe "milking it" is more appropriate?....taking more time or advantage than you're really due because you can get away with it. Short for "milking it for all it's worth."


roninho
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3/29/2016 3:54am
agn5009 wrote:
He's entered 86 GP's but has 90 fastest laps? I'm assuming you're saying fastest lap of the day, so how's that even possible?
i would think fastest lap of the race. 86 GP's x 2 manches = 172 races and 90 fastest laps
Rowlands
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3/29/2016 3:58am
agn5009 wrote:
He's entered 86 GP's but has 90 fastest laps? I'm assuming you're saying fastest lap of the day, so how's that even possible?
2 motos ?
roninho
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3/29/2016 4:10am
VET176 wrote:
"sand bagging. To deliberately perform at a lower level than you are capable of." I've changed my mind. If sand bagging means the above then Herlings...
"sand bagging. To deliberately perform at a lower level than you are capable of."

I've changed my mind. If sand bagging means the above then Herlings is not guilty of this.

He has every right to be racing in MX2, and has never deliberately performed at a lower level to stay in the class.

Maybe "milking it" is more appropriate?....taking more time or advantage than you're really due because you can get away with it. Short for "milking it for all it's worth."


Don't think ''taking more advantage than you're really due'' applies, because well he is allowed to race according to the rules.

To me it's more rather be king in MX2 then maybe be Queen in MX1.

I don't blame the kid for staying in the class, he is allowed to do that, he had some big injuries the last 2 years, and well it's not like in the past other greats stayed in a lower class even though they had allready dominated.
Having said that, for me as a spectator its just boring to watch, and i actually think he would like the challenge of MXGP much better than winning in MX2.
Paul333
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3/29/2016 5:40am
Tim507 wrote:
I do not see him as a sandbagger.... He is in the correct age category He is a[b] professional[/b] earning an income (and bonus) on a...
I do not see him as a sandbagger....

He is in the correct age category
He is a professional earning an income (and bonus) on a contract
He is involved in a very dangerous occupation - earn it baby as it can all end tomorrow!!

More power to himGrinning
mumhra wrote:
correct age category ? Maybe... but not really. When Youthstream came up with the age limit in MX2 (i hate that rule but ok) there was...
correct age category ?

Maybe... but not really. When Youthstream came up with the age limit in MX2 (i hate that rule but ok) there was an extra line in the rulebook
1. When you turn 23 you must move up to MXGP
2. When you are under 23 and you have won 2 world championships in MX2 you must move up to MXGP

But when Jeffrey won his 2nd title, in 2013, KTM started complaining against Luongo. They did not want Jeffrey to move up. They had Cairoli in MX1 to win the title and they wanted to keep Jeffrey in MX2 so they could win both titles. Because Luongo really has a soft spot for KTM that rule got dropped in favour of KTM/Herlings.

Jeffrey is by far the best MX2 rider in Europe, and he probably is the best MX rider in Europe as well. And he is one of the best MX riders in the world, so i really wonder why the hell he still is riding circles around his competitors in MX2 class. For the records ? For his 50 GP victories. Well.. the record means shit. All the better riders are moving up to the higher classes and Jeffrey is still racing against guys who are really no competition for him.

In the old days people could stay in their class for as long as they wanted. And so it should be. Some riders are just not build for the bigger bike. Alessio Chiodi comes to mind. So in the old days some of the better riders could stay in the smaller class so back then it was more difficult to win so many GP's in the small category.

We all know Jeffrey is one of the best riders in the world. So move up and race against the big boys. We know he can beat the kids.
Great post.

Sound logic w/understanding of GP history.

I could not agree more.

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