Moto Neck Braces..

chope573
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86
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9/17/2012
Location
Kansas City, MO, USA
2/15/2016 2:50pm
AtlasBrace wrote:
It is an incredible task collecting private patient data (and accounting for unreported crashes), and collecting enough of it to definitively spot trends and changes. Rushing...
It is an incredible task collecting private patient data (and accounting for unreported crashes), and collecting enough of it to definitively spot trends and changes. Rushing this process doesn't help anything but reduce the amount of data you are working with - it has to be a large enough sample to make sense (10 years+). We are very confident in our product, that is why we (and others) lab test them to verify what we are building does what it is intended to do.

We can't speak for others, but we aren't just making assumptions and hoping for the best here. There is real science and engineering behind these products and we test them before ever releasing it to the public to make sure they do what we intended them to do - reduce head/neck forces. Each test we have ever performed did exactly that, to both the head and neck, even with a "basic" mid price point helmet. Throw MIPS, 6D, Bell Flex in there and I would be willing to bet those numbers improve further.

The human body can't handle certain forces in extreme situations (crashes) - our product was not designed as a foreign object, but rather a flexible extension of the human body. It's purpose is to take over and reduce the forces that the body isn't capable of sustaining. In testing it reduces neck and head forces - in an effort to potentially reduce injury. Problem is that each body, and each incident has so many unique factors it is impossible to know for sure if an injury will or wont occur - We may never be able to answer that question - BUT if we can use a piece of equipment that reduces forces to an incredibly fragile and life threatening part of our body, then I would want to have that equipment on.

I understand and thanks for the response. I hope you get the data you need.
mx510
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1993
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Location
Gig Harbor, WA, USA
2/15/2016 2:51pm
AtlasBrace wrote:
Villopoto did pretty good.... And he also owns part of our company. As mentioned above, we also do a ton of testing on the product to...
Villopoto did pretty good.... And he also owns part of our company.

As mentioned above, we also do a ton of testing on the product to verify what it does. We aren't just shooting at the hip here.
I sincerely appreciate you coming on here and replying to people. I genuinely wonder if even given "proof" how many would actually start to wear one. I have done my research and am confident in my decision to wear a brace ( I just wish I would have known you guys were coming out with a new right after I bought the original Atlas
2/15/2016 2:54pm
No problem! If anyone ever has any questions just reach out to us, we are more than happy to answer them.

You guys are right to question everything and we welcome it. Do your research and make the right decision for you.
bvm111
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10186
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Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
2/15/2016 2:58pm
AtlasBrace wrote:
No problem! If anyone ever has any questions just reach out to us, we are more than happy to answer them. You guys are right to...
No problem! If anyone ever has any questions just reach out to us, we are more than happy to answer them.

You guys are right to question everything and we welcome it. Do your research and make the right decision for you.
Do you guys have an upgrade program? I have a first generation atlas with lots of motos and DH runs on it and would like to upgrade to the newest generation carbon.

The Shop

2/15/2016 3:01pm
bvm111 wrote:
Do you guys have an upgrade program? I have a first generation atlas with lots of motos and DH runs on it and would like to...
Do you guys have an upgrade program? I have a first generation atlas with lots of motos and DH runs on it and would like to upgrade to the newest generation carbon.
Currently we don't - but we may offer our Trade Up Program again one day.
DrSweden
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6761
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Location
Stockholm, SE
2/15/2016 3:17pm
AtlasBrace wrote:
It is an incredible task collecting private patient data (and accounting for unreported crashes), and collecting enough of it to definitively spot trends and changes. Rushing...
It is an incredible task collecting private patient data (and accounting for unreported crashes), and collecting enough of it to definitively spot trends and changes. Rushing this process doesn't help anything but reduce the amount of data you are working with - it has to be a large enough sample to make sense (10 years+). We are very confident in our product, that is why we (and others) lab test them to verify what we are building does what it is intended to do.

We can't speak for others, but we aren't just making assumptions and hoping for the best here. There is real science and engineering behind these products and we test them before ever releasing it to the public to make sure they do what we intended them to do - reduce head/neck forces. Each test we have ever performed did exactly that, to both the head and neck, even with a "basic" mid price point helmet. Throw MIPS, 6D, Bell Flex in there and I would be willing to bet those numbers improve further.

The human body can't handle certain forces in extreme situations (crashes) - our product was not designed as a foreign object, but rather a flexible extension of the human body. It's purpose is to take over and reduce the forces that the body isn't capable of sustaining. In testing it reduces neck and head forces - in an effort to potentially reduce injury. Problem is that each body, and each incident has so many unique factors it is impossible to know for sure if an injury will or wont occur - We may never be able to answer that question - BUT if we can use a piece of equipment that reduces forces to an incredibly fragile and life threatening part of our body, then I would want to have that equipment on.

Not an easy task I know. Dunno about the US. But an PHD in Sweden would be able to collect data from Swedish hospitals. I think there are obligations you have as a patient when you end up in a hospital, as in allowing part of your data to the science community, then you as a scientist apply for ethical approval to avoid any wrong doing. Every study made out of trauma care or whatever is used in return to benefit the community?

Gave a guy a salary for a year, dig out as much as possible. I got the feeling a full effort hasn't been done here.

I wear a neck brace, I too believe in the hypothesis. But theory means nothing until it's proven with hard end points...

2/15/2016 3:48pm
Our main focus and goal is to continue pushing the product boundaries and inventing or using available technology to further reduce the forces during testing. We can accurately (and repeatedly) test multiple scenarios with definitive results, so it is by far the most accurate way to verifying the product that we have available. Like I said, in our tests the head and neck forces are reduced (vs not wearing a brace). That proves the device does what it is intended to do - reduce forces.

Maybe some people are expecting too much from neck braces? We can't perform miracles, and we can't ever tell you for sure that it will save your life or you won't break your neck 100% of the time. Even if that was true, we could never say that because we would be in court more than our office... but that doesn't mean it doesn't "work".

A helmet is meant to reduce forces to the head so (hopefully) you will live. It doesn't guarantee that you won't die, suffer a concussion, brain damage, or that the sharp bottom edge of the chin bar will not break your collarbone... but we all agree wearing them is in our best interest - And there are some VERY questionable helmets on the market that get bought by the thousands every day without even questioning them.

We have to have realistic expectations, and I think we can all agree that wearing a helmet is a good thing? So why not a neck brace... They are both tested in labs using similar equipment (our neck brace testing is actually more rigorous than standardized helmet testing) and they perform similar functions, just for different body parts.
2/15/2016 4:01pm
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone

no thanks

wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated

again , no thanks

hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else

just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?

These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on

not in that order ?

Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?

douché bags
chope573
Posts
86
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Location
Kansas City, MO, USA
2/15/2016 5:58pm
Icespikes wrote:
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone no thanks wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated again , no thanks hahahaha the...
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone

no thanks

wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated

again , no thanks

hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else

just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?

These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on

not in that order ?

Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?

douché bags
What we do is a risk, and it's not the fault of anyone but ourselves... If you buy into the game then YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!

Read up and educate yourself...
2/15/2016 7:21pm
I'm not surprised that moto people don't wear neckbraces, because:

A majority of the pro's are idiots.

And a majority of the fans / industrie people think the pros word is the word of god.

JM485
Posts
5826
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Location
Davis, CA, USA
2/15/2016 9:42pm
Icespikes wrote:
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone no thanks wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated again , no thanks hahahaha the...
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone

no thanks

wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated

again , no thanks

hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else

just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?

These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on

not in that order ?

Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?

douché bags
You have bad luck when it comes to thinking, don't you?
seth505
Posts
10216
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Location
SD, CA, USA
2/15/2016 10:47pm
Icespikes wrote:
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone no thanks wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated again , no thanks hahahaha the...
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone

no thanks

wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated

again , no thanks

hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else

just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?

These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on

not in that order ?

Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?

douché bags
Your post definitely comes off like a douche-bag wrote it.
Fearo
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Location
BE
2/16/2016 1:05am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2016 1:06am
@ Icespikes




@ Atlasbrace

Thanks for replying in this thread. Do you guys have any actual percentages charts on how much the forces to the neck/head are actually reduced with your braces? Leatt presented the following data a few years ago, and while there is absolutely no way in verifying if any of this is true, it at least seems plausible.

JoJmoto
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Location
Clarkesville, GA, USA
2/16/2016 3:44am
I truly think a Leatt saved Lane one day when he landed awkwardly into the face of a jump. But it did hurt his back, the tongue thing laid on the spine. We switched to Atlas after that and he felt better about wearing it. I did too, its a good brace and I think people should still wear them.
2/16/2016 9:24am
@Fearo

There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to fund that. They aren't lying. If neck braces didn't do the job they are intended to do we wouldn't be in this business. We are all riders and we want to help other riders stay safe, but also wear something that isn't a detriment to their riding experience.

Unfortunately the USA is a super litigious place, and (ridiculous) lawsuits are won every day. It's very difficult to release data and not be attacked constantly. We want to continue dedicating our time to improving the product rather than making lawyers rich, while privately (and through a 3rd party facility) performing the testing necessary to validate our product(s) before they reach the public.

Underdog999
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662
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Location
Kalaheo, HI, USA
2/16/2016 10:50am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2016 10:54am
AtlasBrace wrote:
@Fearo There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to...
@Fearo

There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to fund that. They aren't lying. If neck braces didn't do the job they are intended to do we wouldn't be in this business. We are all riders and we want to help other riders stay safe, but also wear something that isn't a detriment to their riding experience.

Unfortunately the USA is a super litigious place, and (ridiculous) lawsuits are won every day. It's very difficult to release data and not be attacked constantly. We want to continue dedicating our time to improving the product rather than making lawyers rich, while privately (and through a 3rd party facility) performing the testing necessary to validate our product(s) before they reach the public.

Am I to believe from your reply that you won't release data because you fear that a lawyer will misconstrue the data and sue you if a rider gets hurt while wearing your brace? Or did I read this wrong?

disbanded
Posts
6994
Joined
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Location
Evergreen, CO, USA
2/16/2016 11:15am
Icespikes wrote:
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone no thanks wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated again , no thanks hahahaha the...
wear one ? tip over and break a collarbone

no thanks

wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated

again , no thanks

hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else

just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?

These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on

not in that order ?

Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?

douché bags
My IQ just dropped 22 points from reading this...
2/16/2016 11:23am
Am I to believe from your reply that you won't release data because you fear that a lawyer will misconstrue the data and sue you if...
Am I to believe from your reply that you won't release data because you fear that a lawyer will misconstrue the data and sue you if a rider gets hurt while wearing your brace? Or did I read this wrong?

Yes, exactly. The raw data is incredibly complex to understand, that is why Doctors and Bio Mechanical experts are involved... but if a rider gets hurt we (and everyone else, even the track etc) will get sued regardless. Can't stop that.

If we are sued we have to defend our product anyways, and expert witnesses (like a test lab) would need to verify that the product does as intended. Leatt has been through this process several times, and our 3rd party test lab were the experts who tested the product to verify it did reduce forces as advertised.

Releasing data publicly only causes extra potential harm, especially if it is good data. (better the data, more they want to prove you're wrong). We aren't trying to hide anything, just trying to protect our investment, our business, and continue to be able to make safer products for other riders - and still have a job.
Ted722
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4577
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Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
2/16/2016 12:32pm
Joe Blow says "my neck brace saved me, at least twice!". Ok, didn't see the crash, but I'll take your word for it. I've lawn darted at least 10 times (over a 25 year span). One grade 3 shoulder separation, multiple concussions, no neck brace.

Yet, plenty examples of Pro's taking theirs off...even after major head first crashes.

A shame the industry doesn't do the neck brace market a service. If the Pro's are as dumb as people say they are why not ask them a few basic neck brace questions.

Why after your injury have you chosen not to wear neck protection? Can you not wear another brand? Is your wife Ok with this? (haha...thought I'd throw in a fun one). Would you ride without a helmet if given the option?

I understand the data being complex, but what's the old adage, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

2/16/2016 1:11pm
I'm kinda on the fence about wearing one/not wearing one. I bought one (alpinestars bionic) thinking it was a good investment. Comfortable and didn't notice it while riding. Ended up having a bad crash and re-broke my collarbone. Had to have it plated & screwed. Broke right at the edge where the brace made contact. Same spot it was broken before. Coincidence or pressure from the brace I can't say. I feel it did save my neck from being broke or messed up. I wear it for peace of mind anymore but still a little leary at times
2/16/2016 1:47pm
Ted722 wrote:
Joe Blow says "my neck brace saved me, at least twice!". Ok, didn't see the crash, but I'll take your word for it. I've lawn darted...
Joe Blow says "my neck brace saved me, at least twice!". Ok, didn't see the crash, but I'll take your word for it. I've lawn darted at least 10 times (over a 25 year span). One grade 3 shoulder separation, multiple concussions, no neck brace.

Yet, plenty examples of Pro's taking theirs off...even after major head first crashes.

A shame the industry doesn't do the neck brace market a service. If the Pro's are as dumb as people say they are why not ask them a few basic neck brace questions.

Why after your injury have you chosen not to wear neck protection? Can you not wear another brand? Is your wife Ok with this? (haha...thought I'd throw in a fun one). Would you ride without a helmet if given the option?

I understand the data being complex, but what's the old adage, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

In simple terms:

Neck braces reduce forces to the head and neck by providing an extension of the body, preventing extreme actions of the neck (in multiple directions). Limiting these extreme actions can potentially lessen the severity of an injury, just the same way a helmet can potentially reduce injury to your head.

It's only as complicated as you want to make it.

Helmets are accepted easily because they wrap around your head, so it's easier for someone to understand how that is a good thing. A neck brace is much more complex than that, so it is harder for people to accept.
Ted722
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4577
Joined
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Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
2/16/2016 2:04pm
Ted722 wrote:
Joe Blow says "my neck brace saved me, at least twice!". Ok, didn't see the crash, but I'll take your word for it. I've lawn darted...
Joe Blow says "my neck brace saved me, at least twice!". Ok, didn't see the crash, but I'll take your word for it. I've lawn darted at least 10 times (over a 25 year span). One grade 3 shoulder separation, multiple concussions, no neck brace.

Yet, plenty examples of Pro's taking theirs off...even after major head first crashes.

A shame the industry doesn't do the neck brace market a service. If the Pro's are as dumb as people say they are why not ask them a few basic neck brace questions.

Why after your injury have you chosen not to wear neck protection? Can you not wear another brand? Is your wife Ok with this? (haha...thought I'd throw in a fun one). Would you ride without a helmet if given the option?

I understand the data being complex, but what's the old adage, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

AtlasBrace wrote:
In simple terms: Neck braces reduce forces to the head and neck by providing an extension of the body, preventing extreme actions of the neck (in...
In simple terms:

Neck braces reduce forces to the head and neck by providing an extension of the body, preventing extreme actions of the neck (in multiple directions). Limiting these extreme actions can potentially lessen the severity of an injury, just the same way a helmet can potentially reduce injury to your head.

It's only as complicated as you want to make it.

Helmets are accepted easily because they wrap around your head, so it's easier for someone to understand how that is a good thing. A neck brace is much more complex than that, so it is harder for people to accept.
Appreciated, but I was referring to a Pro's response for not wearing one (especially the one's who choose not to wear one AFTER a head first crash). Their answers could shed some light. Either they will be consistent or all over the map.
731chopper
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DFW, TX, USA
2/16/2016 2:37pm
I stopped wearing a helmet after I got a concussion. Damn things never work.
2/16/2016 3:37pm
No, not at all. My point was that the concept of a helmet is easier to accept because it doesn't require an explanation. If someone looks a helmet they know what they are looking at. It wraps around my head, so it must protect my head... easy. The same condition doesn't exist for neck braces because they are more complicated. People look at a neck brace and go, what does that do? How does it work? It's function is less obvious, and that leads to many questions.

That's why were are here.. Trying to answer all the questions and help give people the information that will help them make an informed decision.



Underdog999
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Kalaheo, HI, USA
2/16/2016 3:55pm
Well said, Mr. Atlas Brace! I like the way you explained it here.
Fearo
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2/17/2016 12:56am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2016 12:57am
AtlasBrace wrote:
@Fearo There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to...
@Fearo

There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to fund that. They aren't lying. If neck braces didn't do the job they are intended to do we wouldn't be in this business. We are all riders and we want to help other riders stay safe, but also wear something that isn't a detriment to their riding experience.

Unfortunately the USA is a super litigious place, and (ridiculous) lawsuits are won every day. It's very difficult to release data and not be attacked constantly. We want to continue dedicating our time to improving the product rather than making lawyers rich, while privately (and through a 3rd party facility) performing the testing necessary to validate our product(s) before they reach the public.

Thanks again for the reply. What I actually meant is that there is no way for the consumer to know (at this point) if these percentages numbers from Leatts graph are true.

I mean, is there a standard testing protocol for neck braces as there is for helmets? I know the various helmet protocols (snell/dot etc) are up for much debate but at least they're there and provide a somewhat clean way to compare different helmet designs. For me, I believe in neck braces 100% and I will never ride without one, but choosing between brands is very difficult without having any physical evidence on which kinds of testing have been done to ensure maximum safety.

Also,my mind was blown when I read that you guys had to do the independant lab testing to prove the efficacy of your biggest competitor's product Woohoo . That must've been something else...
2/17/2016 8:34am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2016 8:35am
Fearo wrote:
Thanks again for the reply. What I actually meant is that there is no way [i]for the consumer[/i] to know (at this point) if these percentages...
Thanks again for the reply. What I actually meant is that there is no way for the consumer to know (at this point) if these percentages numbers from Leatts graph are true.

I mean, is there a standard testing protocol for neck braces as there is for helmets? I know the various helmet protocols (snell/dot etc) are up for much debate but at least they're there and provide a somewhat clean way to compare different helmet designs. For me, I believe in neck braces 100% and I will never ride without one, but choosing between brands is very difficult without having any physical evidence on which kinds of testing have been done to ensure maximum safety.

Also,my mind was blown when I read that you guys had to do the independant lab testing to prove the efficacy of your biggest competitor's product Woohoo . That must've been something else...
No of course, not without the consumer spending a fortune to replicate tests... you either have to trust the data or not - The same way we hope that dot/snell etc is truly setting the bar high enough to prove if a helmet is effective... but do you really know? Or are you satisfied putting all your trust in dot/snell simply because the word standardized is attached to it?

More recently certain helmet manufacturers are choosing not to participate in some of these homologations because they feel they are a detriment to the safety of the product... which was only discovered by doing their own internal testing. Standardized tests may be forced to create a lower bar so that a wider range of products can pass - but the brands use more advanced testing methods and want to push their innovation further to go way beyond standards, because they care more.

Since that is something that has only started happening the last few years, is standardized testing really a better option? Would we really want this for neck braces?

*also to clarify, I am not saying homologations aren't helpful, I am just saying that maybe brands who are invested in themselves and truly care about their customers are doing more advanced testing behind closed doors to ensure the products far surpass the standards set in place. Why limit our selves to "good enough"?

*@Fearo - WE did not test their product, our 3rd party test lab was hired to test them for specific lawsuits (not involving us).
Fearo
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2/18/2016 2:23am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2016 2:26am
AtlasBrace wrote:
No of course, not without the consumer spending a fortune to replicate tests... you either have to trust the data or not - The same way...
No of course, not without the consumer spending a fortune to replicate tests... you either have to trust the data or not - The same way we hope that dot/snell etc is truly setting the bar high enough to prove if a helmet is effective... but do you really know? Or are you satisfied putting all your trust in dot/snell simply because the word standardized is attached to it?

More recently certain helmet manufacturers are choosing not to participate in some of these homologations because they feel they are a detriment to the safety of the product... which was only discovered by doing their own internal testing. Standardized tests may be forced to create a lower bar so that a wider range of products can pass - but the brands use more advanced testing methods and want to push their innovation further to go way beyond standards, because they care more.

Since that is something that has only started happening the last few years, is standardized testing really a better option? Would we really want this for neck braces?

*also to clarify, I am not saying homologations aren't helpful, I am just saying that maybe brands who are invested in themselves and truly care about their customers are doing more advanced testing behind closed doors to ensure the products far surpass the standards set in place. Why limit our selves to "good enough"?

*@Fearo - WE did not test their product, our 3rd party test lab was hired to test them for specific lawsuits (not involving us).
The main benefit of a standardized testing protocol would be a minimum requirement of product efficacy in order to be able to sell your product.

I have no doubts in the seriousness of Atlas and Leatts testing standards, but let's be honest, neck brace marketing is the wild west compared to helmets. You and Leatt are the 2 biggest players that have survived all the hype, but how many brands have tried selling a brace over the years, especially when they were 'more popular' than now? Were those braces effective? Did they even have them tested thoroughly? We'll never know.

I'm not saying you should only adhere to a standardized test, but it should set a minimum by which the consumer knows, this is an effective product. And that's the way it is with helmets. Leatt, Bell and 6D have come out with new helmet tech that far exceeds the snell/dot tests, but they do still pass them as a requirement. And with the exception of 6D and Leatt, most top helmet brands that are pushing technology right now will have the consumer's trust regardless, because they have been in the game for decades, which can't be said for any neck brace company.
2/18/2016 8:42am
We agree - but potentially lowering the bar can severely slow down advancements in technology.

For example - Companies could easily get lazy and stop innovating because everyone accepts that the standards are indeed good enough. We believe this is a big reason helmet tech stayed the same for several decades. Why would anyone invest huge money in creating something like 6D when all the consumers are looking for is a dot/snell sticker, and the price still relatively low? Consumers think win-win! But they could be cheating themselves.

It's taken several decades, advancements in mental health assessments, and concussion talks stemming from football to finally force the innovation and make companies want to push forward. But what about the last 40-50 years? Some of those consumers are now suffering (or have taken their own life) because they found the standards acceptable and continued getting injured. Now we are learning that maybe the standards may not be good enough, but at what cost?

We have no problem with getting to a neck brace homologation - but we aren't sure it's truly going to benefit the public other than placing an official looking sticker on it saying it passed something.

In Europe we do have to pass CE standards - This includes impact tests, safety checks (no sharp objects to cause harm etc), material chemical tests, sizing requirements, and so on. This must be performed by a CE facility, not internally by us. But these are only to satisfy Europe. It's not perfect, but that is what we have, and everyone selling there has to pass it.

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