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You guys are right to question everything and we welcome it. Do your research and make the right decision for you.
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Gave a guy a salary for a year, dig out as much as possible. I got the feeling a full effort hasn't been done here.
I wear a neck brace, I too believe in the hypothesis. But theory means nothing until it's proven with hard end points...
Maybe some people are expecting too much from neck braces? We can't perform miracles, and we can't ever tell you for sure that it will save your life or you won't break your neck 100% of the time. Even if that was true, we could never say that because we would be in court more than our office... but that doesn't mean it doesn't "work".
A helmet is meant to reduce forces to the head so (hopefully) you will live. It doesn't guarantee that you won't die, suffer a concussion, brain damage, or that the sharp bottom edge of the chin bar will not break your collarbone... but we all agree wearing them is in our best interest - And there are some VERY questionable helmets on the market that get bought by the thousands every day without even questioning them.
We have to have realistic expectations, and I think we can all agree that wearing a helmet is a good thing? So why not a neck brace... They are both tested in labs using similar equipment (our neck brace testing is actually more rigorous than standardized helmet testing) and they perform similar functions, just for different body parts.
no thanks
wear one going a little quicker ? shoulder separated
again , no thanks
hahahaha the best is those rednecks that only wear a neck brace and nothing else
just jokes all these morons that bought them , having some company tell you that you are safer with an anchor wrapped around your neck while riding a dirt bike ?
These companies should all be shut down By law ! Promising protection while using the public for R&D ? and now what ? After effing countless people's shoulders for years and years ? the new design is better ? with all they learned off the back of the injured , complaining , paying customer ?
These neck brace companies should be ...
shot
drag out into the street
and pissed on
not in that order ?
Maybe ? Dragged into the street , pissed on , then shot ?
douché bags
Read up and educate yourself...
http://www.truperformancefitness.com/motocross/a-better-solution-to-the…
A majority of the pro's are idiots.
And a majority of the fans / industrie people think the pros word is the word of god.
@ Atlasbrace
Thanks for replying in this thread. Do you guys have any actual percentages charts on how much the forces to the neck/head are actually reduced with your braces? Leatt presented the following data a few years ago, and while there is absolutely no way in verifying if any of this is true, it at least seems plausible.
There is absolutely a way to verify that it is true - recreate the tests in a lab - If any individual is willing to fund that. They aren't lying. If neck braces didn't do the job they are intended to do we wouldn't be in this business. We are all riders and we want to help other riders stay safe, but also wear something that isn't a detriment to their riding experience.
Unfortunately the USA is a super litigious place, and (ridiculous) lawsuits are won every day. It's very difficult to release data and not be attacked constantly. We want to continue dedicating our time to improving the product rather than making lawyers rich, while privately (and through a 3rd party facility) performing the testing necessary to validate our product(s) before they reach the public.
Pit Row
If we are sued we have to defend our product anyways, and expert witnesses (like a test lab) would need to verify that the product does as intended. Leatt has been through this process several times, and our 3rd party test lab were the experts who tested the product to verify it did reduce forces as advertised.
Releasing data publicly only causes extra potential harm, especially if it is good data. (better the data, more they want to prove you're wrong). We aren't trying to hide anything, just trying to protect our investment, our business, and continue to be able to make safer products for other riders - and still have a job.
Yet, plenty examples of Pro's taking theirs off...even after major head first crashes.
A shame the industry doesn't do the neck brace market a service. If the Pro's are as dumb as people say they are why not ask them a few basic neck brace questions.
Why after your injury have you chosen not to wear neck protection? Can you not wear another brand? Is your wife Ok with this? (haha...thought I'd throw in a fun one). Would you ride without a helmet if given the option?
I understand the data being complex, but what's the old adage, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Neck braces reduce forces to the head and neck by providing an extension of the body, preventing extreme actions of the neck (in multiple directions). Limiting these extreme actions can potentially lessen the severity of an injury, just the same way a helmet can potentially reduce injury to your head.
It's only as complicated as you want to make it.
Helmets are accepted easily because they wrap around your head, so it's easier for someone to understand how that is a good thing. A neck brace is much more complex than that, so it is harder for people to accept.
That's why were are here.. Trying to answer all the questions and help give people the information that will help them make an informed decision.
I mean, is there a standard testing protocol for neck braces as there is for helmets? I know the various helmet protocols (snell/dot etc) are up for much debate but at least they're there and provide a somewhat clean way to compare different helmet designs. For me, I believe in neck braces 100% and I will never ride without one, but choosing between brands is very difficult without having any physical evidence on which kinds of testing have been done to ensure maximum safety.
Also,my mind was blown when I read that you guys had to do the independant lab testing to prove the efficacy of your biggest competitor's product
More recently certain helmet manufacturers are choosing not to participate in some of these homologations because they feel they are a detriment to the safety of the product... which was only discovered by doing their own internal testing. Standardized tests may be forced to create a lower bar so that a wider range of products can pass - but the brands use more advanced testing methods and want to push their innovation further to go way beyond standards, because they care more.
Since that is something that has only started happening the last few years, is standardized testing really a better option? Would we really want this for neck braces?
*also to clarify, I am not saying homologations aren't helpful, I am just saying that maybe brands who are invested in themselves and truly care about their customers are doing more advanced testing behind closed doors to ensure the products far surpass the standards set in place. Why limit our selves to "good enough"?
*@Fearo - WE did not test their product, our 3rd party test lab was hired to test them for specific lawsuits (not involving us).
I have no doubts in the seriousness of Atlas and Leatts testing standards, but let's be honest, neck brace marketing is the wild west compared to helmets. You and Leatt are the 2 biggest players that have survived all the hype, but how many brands have tried selling a brace over the years, especially when they were 'more popular' than now? Were those braces effective? Did they even have them tested thoroughly? We'll never know.
I'm not saying you should only adhere to a standardized test, but it should set a minimum by which the consumer knows, this is an effective product. And that's the way it is with helmets. Leatt, Bell and 6D have come out with new helmet tech that far exceeds the snell/dot tests, but they do still pass them as a requirement. And with the exception of 6D and Leatt, most top helmet brands that are pushing technology right now will have the consumer's trust regardless, because they have been in the game for decades, which can't be said for any neck brace company.
For example - Companies could easily get lazy and stop innovating because everyone accepts that the standards are indeed good enough. We believe this is a big reason helmet tech stayed the same for several decades. Why would anyone invest huge money in creating something like 6D when all the consumers are looking for is a dot/snell sticker, and the price still relatively low? Consumers think win-win! But they could be cheating themselves.
It's taken several decades, advancements in mental health assessments, and concussion talks stemming from football to finally force the innovation and make companies want to push forward. But what about the last 40-50 years? Some of those consumers are now suffering (or have taken their own life) because they found the standards acceptable and continued getting injured. Now we are learning that maybe the standards may not be good enough, but at what cost?
We have no problem with getting to a neck brace homologation - but we aren't sure it's truly going to benefit the public other than placing an official looking sticker on it saying it passed something.
In Europe we do have to pass CE standards - This includes impact tests, safety checks (no sharp objects to cause harm etc), material chemical tests, sizing requirements, and so on. This must be performed by a CE facility, not internally by us. But these are only to satisfy Europe. It's not perfect, but that is what we have, and everyone selling there has to pass it.
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