4 stroke maintenance

Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 11/25/2013 8:02pm
11/25/2013 8:02pm
mxb2 wrote:
I buy an hour meter, before I even ride my bikes, oil change , oil filter 3-6 hours, quality oil, change air filter as needed, when...
I buy an hour meter, before I even ride my bikes, oil change , oil filter 3-6 hours, quality oil, change air filter as needed, when in doubt I replace it.
Yep. I do the same.

My brother owns a Suz/Kaw/Polaris dealership here in Indiana.
Anytime he sells a KXF or RMZ he recommends an hour meter and offers to install it free (not that it's real hard to do).
He said about 90% take him up on it.

I've ridden a 250F since 06. I ride a KXF and had a 06, 09 and now a 12.
All were pretty much trouble free. But I'm very picky about maintenance.

Full disclosure though, I don't ride it at the rev limiter or put a ton of hours on it . I sold my 09 with about 70 hours on it to buy my 12. The 16 year old who bought it is local, and rides it pretty hard. He keeps up on the oil pretty well. It's still going strong pushing 100 hours.
Valves were checked twice. Nothing has been replaced in the motor and it's still going strong.
Although I told him he should do the top end this winter.

But I will admit it does depend on how hard you ride it. If you're a really fast A rider that rides near the rev limiter, you're going to be doing more repairs than the average rider. But that goes for a 2 stroke as well.
mxb2
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mxb2 11/25/2013 8:20pm
11/25/2013 8:20pm
mxb2 wrote:
I buy an hour meter, before I even ride my bikes, oil change , oil filter 3-6 hours, quality oil, change air filter as needed, when...
I buy an hour meter, before I even ride my bikes, oil change , oil filter 3-6 hours, quality oil, change air filter as needed, when in doubt I replace it.
Indy mxer wrote:
Yep. I do the same. My brother owns a Suz/Kaw/Polaris dealership here in Indiana. Anytime he sells a KXF or RMZ he recommends an hour meter...
Yep. I do the same.

My brother owns a Suz/Kaw/Polaris dealership here in Indiana.
Anytime he sells a KXF or RMZ he recommends an hour meter and offers to install it free (not that it's real hard to do).
He said about 90% take him up on it.

I've ridden a 250F since 06. I ride a KXF and had a 06, 09 and now a 12.
All were pretty much trouble free. But I'm very picky about maintenance.

Full disclosure though, I don't ride it at the rev limiter or put a ton of hours on it . I sold my 09 with about 70 hours on it to buy my 12. The 16 year old who bought it is local, and rides it pretty hard. He keeps up on the oil pretty well. It's still going strong pushing 100 hours.
Valves were checked twice. Nothing has been replaced in the motor and it's still going strong.
Although I told him he should do the top end this winter.

But I will admit it does depend on how hard you ride it. If you're a really fast A rider that rides near the rev limiter, you're going to be doing more repairs than the average rider. But that goes for a 2 stroke as well.
X2, and if you don't want to spend the money on a hour meter, document everything on paper, keep it with the manual. Simple process.
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 11/25/2013 9:07pm
11/25/2013 9:07pm
TerryK wrote:
You sir, are the exception to the rule.
I don't think he is the exception, for a A grade / Expert rider up, yes agree a two stroke would be cheaper in the long haul, for for your average weekend punter that does not get close to using all of the power inside a 450 or a 250 for that matter a four stroke should last a long time before being touched.

Now when it comes to bike sales where to you think the biggest market is? Top level expert rider? Pro Riders do not count, they are supplied with what they need.

The biggest market is the weekend warrior C/D , Novice / Intermediate racer.

Even at the Pro Level In Aus or a state level where 250 two strokes race head to head with 250 four strokes, it is rare to see a 250F blow a top end at a race meeting, while I have seen many a 250 two stroke being re-built during this year along at the track.

The big advantage with the two stroke is it is possible to do re build a top end while at the track for the average bloke.

Still plenty of choices out there 2 and 4 stroke, ride what you enjoy and hold it on!
Grizz
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Grizz 11/25/2013 9:12pm
11/25/2013 9:12pm
I love you OP.

4-stroke, more reliable, more expensive to fix.

2-stroke, less reliable, less expensive to fix.

Just pick your battle, then ride the fucking thing.

The Shop

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/25/2013 9:40pm
11/25/2013 9:40pm
Emoticon eating popcorn goes...

Here.

Then there's my "Experience" in these matters:

My comments on people talking about running a motor 'til it blows up? Uh, sorry. Just don't get it. I've had -1- ...that's ONE valve fail on a KX450F...a DelWest valve, btw. Also, I've pulled a bit if dust through a Honda 450X head and it still made it all the way to Cabo; but, it wasn't happy about it!

I've got a 13.1:1 250X motor w/ 72 hours on it...including 13.5 hours of the Glen Helen 24HR...w/ Johnny Campbell & Ridge riding the PISS outta it. The other hours on it? Ringing it OUT in Baja Pre-running , The Beach Bash & marking the Buckhorn Enduro (D-36)...even some track time on the front track at Glen Helen. During ALL of that? ONE VALVE Adjustment. ONE.

Now, I've had my KX500s have crank issues and some cracked pistons. My CR500s would eat gear-dogs...and clutches. Those were all "Support Bikes" maintained and serviced by Team/OEM Mechanics: in fact, all the bikes I'm writing about are/were.

So, in my life, by my experiences...I'm loving the Thumpers.
mx510
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mx510 11/25/2013 10:30pm
11/25/2013 10:30pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Emoticon eating popcorn goes... Here. Then there's my "Experience" in these matters: My comments on people talking about running a motor 'til it blows up? Uh...
Emoticon eating popcorn goes...

Here.

Then there's my "Experience" in these matters:

My comments on people talking about running a motor 'til it blows up? Uh, sorry. Just don't get it. I've had -1- ...that's ONE valve fail on a KX450F...a DelWest valve, btw. Also, I've pulled a bit if dust through a Honda 450X head and it still made it all the way to Cabo; but, it wasn't happy about it!

I've got a 13.1:1 250X motor w/ 72 hours on it...including 13.5 hours of the Glen Helen 24HR...w/ Johnny Campbell & Ridge riding the PISS outta it. The other hours on it? Ringing it OUT in Baja Pre-running , The Beach Bash & marking the Buckhorn Enduro (D-36)...even some track time on the front track at Glen Helen. During ALL of that? ONE VALVE Adjustment. ONE.

Now, I've had my KX500s have crank issues and some cracked pistons. My CR500s would eat gear-dogs...and clutches. Those were all "Support Bikes" maintained and serviced by Team/OEM Mechanics: in fact, all the bikes I'm writing about are/were.

So, in my life, by my experiences...I'm loving the Thumpers.
Truth shall not be spoken in the land of the 2 stroke.
Adam43
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Adam43 11/25/2013 11:26pm
11/25/2013 11:26pm
Problems arise months and years down the line. This is where two strokes prove their value.

If the four-stroke fails catastrophically it will cost anywhere from 4x to 10x to restore to new condition as compared to a two stroke. The other options are to search for an affordable used engine (whole or in part) or part out the bike for salvage value.

This is a fact of life if you choose to use a device with more moving parts to do the same job.
BobPA
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BobPA 11/26/2013 7:16am
11/26/2013 7:16am
Adam43 wrote:
Problems arise months and years down the line. This is where two strokes prove their value. If the four-stroke fails catastrophically it will cost anywhere from...
Problems arise months and years down the line. This is where two strokes prove their value.

If the four-stroke fails catastrophically it will cost anywhere from 4x to 10x to restore to new condition as compared to a two stroke. The other options are to search for an affordable used engine (whole or in part) or part out the bike for salvage value.

This is a fact of life if you choose to use a device with more moving parts to do the same job.
What if you've never had a catastrophic failure? I seem to remember my 125's eating themselves quite frequently. My 250 two strokes were crank and clutch eaters....made the switch to 4t around 2006 or so and have never had an issue. Just a solid maintenance schedule. I tend to dance on the rev limiter and still get decent life out of a motor. My current Ktm 350 has 88 hours....the valves have not moved even an RCH. And if any of you have ridden the 3 fiddy, you know how you have to ride it to be competitive..
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 11/26/2013 7:30am
11/26/2013 7:30am
My 02 CR250 has never had a new bottom end. I put about 100-150 hours on it every year. Mostly sand dunes... since we're talking extremes. I'm not kidding.
BobPA
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BobPA 11/26/2013 9:19am
11/26/2013 9:19am
CR250Rider wrote:
My 02 CR250 has never had a new bottom end. I put about 100-150 hours on it every year. Mostly sand dunes... since we're talking extremes...
My 02 CR250 has never had a new bottom end. I put about 100-150 hours on it every year. Mostly sand dunes... since we're talking extremes. I'm not kidding.
Show me the hour meter
ZOOK250
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ZOOK250 11/26/2013 10:17am
11/26/2013 10:17am
newmann wrote:
Again, how many have complained about the maintenance costs of an open class bike?
BobPA wrote:
No one, because the only people I know with them are straight line heroe's and six pack warriors....not exactly the type to do routine maintenance.
or because only Chuck Norris can blow up a 500.....
Flesh206
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Flesh206 11/26/2013 10:35am
11/26/2013 10:35am
The bottom end can't be that much different then a 2 stroke...it's still bearings and metal. Don't really see why it would wear out faster.

I just replaced the crank bearings on my 07 sx250, didn't need to just preventative maintenance it's the way to go.
LocDawg
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LocDawg 11/26/2013 10:39am
11/26/2013 10:39am
whatsup with all the riders buying 2-strokes again if 4-strokes are so great? lols
Flesh206
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Flesh206 11/26/2013 10:39am
11/26/2013 10:39am


450 bottom end on top

250 smoker on bottom
mx510
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mx510 11/26/2013 10:57am
11/26/2013 10:57am
LocDawg wrote:
whatsup with all the riders buying 2-strokes again if 4-strokes are so great? lols
No one said 2 strokes aren't a whole lot of fun to ride.
BobPA
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BobPA 11/26/2013 1:37pm
11/26/2013 1:37pm
Flesh206 wrote:
The bottom end can't be that much different then a 2 stroke...it's still bearings and metal. Don't really see why it would wear out faster. I...
The bottom end can't be that much different then a 2 stroke...it's still bearings and metal. Don't really see why it would wear out faster.

I just replaced the crank bearings on my 07 sx250, didn't need to just preventative maintenance it's the way to go.
Four strokes have a constant supply of oil...and are never subjected to fuel...
chillrich
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chillrich 11/26/2013 5:05pm
11/26/2013 5:05pm
That oil bath has to make a huge difference. Must be the reason for no topend bearing too. Combustion every 4th stroke should make less wear too I would guess.
mx5471
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mx5471 11/26/2013 6:29pm
11/26/2013 6:29pm
This is an old story. Been there, and done it. If you're fast, you're beating the bike. The difference between a 2 and a 4 is the design of the motor. Blow a 2 and you might only have a top end job. Maybe a cylinder job and the rest of it. Bit it's self contained, it's not ruining anything else. You may have to split the case to be sure nothing is in the motor area. But blow a 4 and you can have more trouble than you want. depending on what happened. It's an open system. A piece of anything can take out everything. Then you're looking at cylinder, head and valve work, and maybe more. And the valve work you can't do yourself. Way more money. Some guys at our track were bitching about a chain lasting them only a year or so. I said, how about replacing a chain and sprockets every 2 weeks? Even Mitch Payton says 4's cost more than 2's. It's all relative to how you ride.

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hoova
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hoova 11/26/2013 9:57pm
11/26/2013 9:57pm
Done 100hrs on my ktm 250sx 2t 2013 model with not one problem. Changed piston at 54 hrs as maintenance and it come out looking new with minimal blow by. I clean the filter every ride, change oil every 10 hrs and run motorex 2t oil at 40:1. It's raced mx and done a lot of wide open desert riding. The only valve I've adjusted is a power valve. Nothing against 4t's but less moving parts means less things to go wrong.
rtpilot
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rtpilot 1/26/2016 4:45am
1/26/2016 4:45am Edited Date/Time 1/26/2016 4:53am
Ok, I have to chime in here. I've been in the mx scene for 35 years and have owned 26 new bikes throughout the years. I've ridden at the intermediate level and now the Vet master, or Vet A. I've owned 5 new 4 strokes, all 250F except my 2012 KTM350. I retired early and during the season I ride just about every day at the local tracks. I ride/rode my bikes like I stole them. However, I do regular oil changes and meticulously clean and change air filters. I have NEVER blown up, or have had a single problem with my 4 stokes, hell I haven't even changed a plug in any of them or even had to shim valves. Now, my 2 stokes. Don't get me wrong, I still love and miss those 2t, but I seriously can't begin to recall (maybe because I'm getting old!) all the blow ups, cranks, crank seals, fouled plugs, continually fixing dented exhaust pipes, clutch replacements, top ends, and dnfs due to failures. You can actually feel the performance degradation of the 2 stroke as the piston and rings wear, not so in a 4t. I rode my 2007 KXF250 for 4 years. I think I did 2 top ends and never noticed a difference in power. Nope, with all the riding I've done in the last 15 years on 4 strokes, there is now way, not even close that I would have had anywhere the trouble free riding, and low cost with a 2 stroke. I do see people who don't know how to ride these 4 strokes. They continually bounce off the rev limiter, and do shoddy maintenance. I have yet to see a 4t blow up at the track! I sure have seen 2t grenade though. Now saying all this, I'm currently looking to ad a 150sx to my fleet just for the shits and giggle factor. In closing, I absolutely love these strokes. For me, they have breathed a new level in riding. Now, if they could make them quieter! Too may tracks closing due to noise complaints...,That is another topic. Have fun!
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 1/26/2016 5:03am
1/26/2016 5:03am Edited Date/Time 1/26/2016 5:04am
rtpilot wrote:
Ok, I have to chime in here. I've been in the mx scene for 35 years and have owned 26 new bikes throughout the years. I've...
Ok, I have to chime in here. I've been in the mx scene for 35 years and have owned 26 new bikes throughout the years. I've ridden at the intermediate level and now the Vet master, or Vet A. I've owned 5 new 4 strokes, all 250F except my 2012 KTM350. I retired early and during the season I ride just about every day at the local tracks. I ride/rode my bikes like I stole them. However, I do regular oil changes and meticulously clean and change air filters. I have NEVER blown up, or have had a single problem with my 4 stokes, hell I haven't even changed a plug in any of them or even had to shim valves. Now, my 2 stokes. Don't get me wrong, I still love and miss those 2t, but I seriously can't begin to recall (maybe because I'm getting old!) all the blow ups, cranks, crank seals, fouled plugs, continually fixing dented exhaust pipes, clutch replacements, top ends, and dnfs due to failures. You can actually feel the performance degradation of the 2 stroke as the piston and rings wear, not so in a 4t. I rode my 2007 KXF250 for 4 years. I think I did 2 top ends and never noticed a difference in power. Nope, with all the riding I've done in the last 15 years on 4 strokes, there is now way, not even close that I would have had anywhere the trouble free riding, and low cost with a 2 stroke. I do see people who don't know how to ride these 4 strokes. They continually bounce off the rev limiter, and do shoddy maintenance. I have yet to see a 4t blow up at the track! I sure have seen 2t grenade though. Now saying all this, I'm currently looking to ad a 150sx to my fleet just for the shits and giggle factor. In closing, I absolutely love these strokes. For me, they have breathed a new level in riding. Now, if they could make them quieter! Too may tracks closing due to noise complaints...,That is another topic. Have fun!
You should bump a thread from 2014 and 2015 next to complete your first three posts. Round here, we call that a hat trick.
Flip109
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Flip109 1/26/2016 5:14am
1/26/2016 5:14am
It's all relative to how hard you ride them and how meticulous you are about maintenance. 450's are very reliable machines for novice/average riders. Hell anything but a 125 is. And if you are just flat slow you will prob never even hurt the thing with even minimal maintenance. I don't even know why people argue so much about a fuckin engine type. We all ride dirt bikes. Wgaf what the next guy over wants to ride. It's his money. They make plenty of new neat 2-strokes. If you want a red green or yellow one, buy a Yamaha and order some plastics. Anyway back to my tasty monster energy morning indulge.
motomike894
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motomike894 1/26/2016 5:49am
1/26/2016 5:49am
Going 80 hours on a 450 piston is retarded I just rebuilt mine at 45 and it was wasted I must ride it lot harder.

Also only cost me $170 bucks for brand new oem top end and valve seals.

Regular stuff I'd say two and four stroke pretty equal but you get into a huge motor failure on four stroke your fucked three times as bad, and it's not cost I no 1,000 to rebuild a whole two stroke unless you had t buy cases or a cylinder.

I'll never keep a four stroke more then 2 years anyway sell them before they have like 200 hours on them lol I get more stressed thinking about all the electrical shit going bad at some point then the motor lol.
Krazyk2774
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Krazyk2774 1/26/2016 6:46am
1/26/2016 6:46am
rtpilot wrote:
Ok, I have to chime in here. I've been in the mx scene for 35 years and have owned 26 new bikes throughout the years. I've...
Ok, I have to chime in here. I've been in the mx scene for 35 years and have owned 26 new bikes throughout the years. I've ridden at the intermediate level and now the Vet master, or Vet A. I've owned 5 new 4 strokes, all 250F except my 2012 KTM350. I retired early and during the season I ride just about every day at the local tracks. I ride/rode my bikes like I stole them. However, I do regular oil changes and meticulously clean and change air filters. I have NEVER blown up, or have had a single problem with my 4 stokes, hell I haven't even changed a plug in any of them or even had to shim valves. Now, my 2 stokes. Don't get me wrong, I still love and miss those 2t, but I seriously can't begin to recall (maybe because I'm getting old!) all the blow ups, cranks, crank seals, fouled plugs, continually fixing dented exhaust pipes, clutch replacements, top ends, and dnfs due to failures. You can actually feel the performance degradation of the 2 stroke as the piston and rings wear, not so in a 4t. I rode my 2007 KXF250 for 4 years. I think I did 2 top ends and never noticed a difference in power. Nope, with all the riding I've done in the last 15 years on 4 strokes, there is now way, not even close that I would have had anywhere the trouble free riding, and low cost with a 2 stroke. I do see people who don't know how to ride these 4 strokes. They continually bounce off the rev limiter, and do shoddy maintenance. I have yet to see a 4t blow up at the track! I sure have seen 2t grenade though. Now saying all this, I'm currently looking to ad a 150sx to my fleet just for the shits and giggle factor. In closing, I absolutely love these strokes. For me, they have breathed a new level in riding. Now, if they could make them quieter! Too may tracks closing due to noise complaints...,That is another topic. Have fun!
I agree with you! I have an 06 YZ450 and all I have ever done was one piston and set the valves twice . I don't ride it all that hard except in the sand dunes . I am however meticulous when it comes to maintenance and keeping things in spec.. Its not rocket science to work on a four stroke! if you can do the top end in a two you can do it on a four , just a few extra steps. I think nostalgia plays a part in this whole ongoing two stroke vs four debate. I have some fond memories of my old smoker, but I also remember the times they gave me lots of grief.
wideopen198 1/26/2016 7:03am
1/26/2016 7:03am
newmann wrote:
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2...
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2 strokes included.
Got no problem with my Honda 250F. The reliability of a 250F mostly depends on the manufacturer. Yes, a ktm or husky will rev to the sky but in the end that's gonna make it a lot less reliable.
Moto75
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Moto75 1/26/2016 7:05am
1/26/2016 7:05am
People used to work on their shit, that's where allot of it comes from. Allot of people felt comfortable doing the top end on their smoker - cost about 140 bucks for a piston & gasket kit. Cost of parts for the 450 are about the same, but people got scared off by all the additional moving parts, valve clearances, cam timing, etc. & felt they needed to take it to the dealer. Simplicity of the 2 stroke & carb saved people money, complexity of a 4 stroke & diagnosis of electrical components has people taking their stuff to the dealer.
seth505
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seth505 1/26/2016 7:08am
1/26/2016 7:08am
newmann wrote:
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2...
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2 strokes included.
wideopen198 wrote:
Got no problem with my Honda 250F. The reliability of a 250F mostly depends on the manufacturer. Yes, a ktm or husky will rev to the...
Got no problem with my Honda 250F. The reliability of a 250F mostly depends on the manufacturer. Yes, a ktm or husky will rev to the sky but in the end that's gonna make it a lot less reliable.
Depends on manufacturer? That is a stretch.
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 1/26/2016 7:13am
1/26/2016 7:13am Edited Date/Time 1/26/2016 7:14am
That just great you can afford new bikes all the time and sell them before it cost you a lot. Go back and ask all the people you sold your "low hour" bikes too and ask them how much it cost them now. Smile .
BobPA
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BobPA 1/26/2016 7:29am
1/26/2016 7:29am
newmann wrote:
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2...
Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2 strokes included.
wideopen198 wrote:
Got no problem with my Honda 250F. The reliability of a 250F mostly depends on the manufacturer. Yes, a ktm or husky will rev to the...
Got no problem with my Honda 250F. The reliability of a 250F mostly depends on the manufacturer. Yes, a ktm or husky will rev to the sky but in the end that's gonna make it a lot less reliable.
Haha my god are you clueless
wideopen198 1/26/2016 7:32am
1/26/2016 7:32am
Moto75 wrote:
People used to work on their shit, that's where allot of it comes from. Allot of people felt comfortable doing the top end on their smoker...
People used to work on their shit, that's where allot of it comes from. Allot of people felt comfortable doing the top end on their smoker - cost about 140 bucks for a piston & gasket kit. Cost of parts for the 450 are about the same, but people got scared off by all the additional moving parts, valve clearances, cam timing, etc. & felt they needed to take it to the dealer. Simplicity of the 2 stroke & carb saved people money, complexity of a 4 stroke & diagnosis of electrical components has people taking their stuff to the dealer.
I think you're right. I hear it all the time. I always tell them it's not that hard. You just need to buy a service manual and do what it says.

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