WP 4cs forks

Moto3731
Profile picture for user Moto3731
Posts
256
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
MA US
Moto3731 12/29/2015 2:59am
12/29/2015 2:59am
Here's the issue with converting the forks and also with just revalving them.... You don't get any more money when you sell the bike. So if you buy a set of cone valves for 2800 which is much better factory kit suspension. You keep your 4cs put it back on the bike and sell the cone valves for 2600 when your done, and you get to ride unbelievable suspension for a mere couple hundred bucks you just have to be able to put the money out there.
Moto3731
Profile picture for user Moto3731
Posts
256
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
MA US
Moto3731 12/29/2015 3:01am
12/29/2015 3:01am
I rode a set back to back at a track comparing the cone valves although the conversion is much better than stock in my opinion it don't touch the cone valve fork
John_Anthony 12/29/2015 5:11am
12/29/2015 5:11am
Moto3731 wrote:
Here's the issue with converting the forks and also with just revalving them.... You don't get any more money when you sell the bike. So if...
Here's the issue with converting the forks and also with just revalving them.... You don't get any more money when you sell the bike. So if you buy a set of cone valves for 2800 which is much better factory kit suspension. You keep your 4cs put it back on the bike and sell the cone valves for 2600 when your done, and you get to ride unbelievable suspension for a mere couple hundred bucks you just have to be able to put the money out there.
Not a bad point, and that's why I purchased a set of WP forks to build out with the KYB carts. Selling, just put the 4CS back on. Where can you buy a set of WP cone valve forks for $2800? I believe that's just the kit, and not the full fork. So that doesn't help. You are saying there's a $200 difference from a new set of forks to a used set. WOW... I'm certainly not here to push someone in any direction, just my experience and opinions. Unless you have the $3500+ the KYB cart conversion is the way to go. Who ever gets the money back that they put into suspension, it's all about having great / safe suspension that puts a smile on your face every time you ride.... Also, just to note. Suspension is very personal, and have to disagree with cone valves don't touch KYB sss..... I know a few riders that would say the opposite.... I feel the real point here is re-valving the 4CS is a total waste of time, hence going cone, kyb, air, AER, etc... Just a matter of personal taste, and budget....
Digger29
Profile picture for user Digger29
Posts
1885
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Oxford, MA US
Digger29 12/29/2015 7:35am
12/29/2015 7:35am
$3500 huh? That's well over retail price for them. I paid QUITE a bit less for my 15 cone valves and sold them for $2500 a few wks back and in the end I had awesome forks and lost just a bit under $200 on them. I've ridden both SSS and cone valves and they're both great forks and I couldn't agree more about suspension being a very personal preference thing and I what I love others may not love. I chose not spend a dime on my 4CS and I don't regret the decision one bit :-)

The Shop

See All »
John_Anthony 12/29/2015 7:41am
12/29/2015 7:41am
Digger29 wrote:
$3500 huh? That's well over retail price for them. I paid QUITE a bit less for my 15 cone valves and sold them for $2500 a...
$3500 huh? That's well over retail price for them. I paid QUITE a bit less for my 15 cone valves and sold them for $2500 a few wks back and in the end I had awesome forks and lost just a bit under $200 on them. I've ridden both SSS and cone valves and they're both great forks and I couldn't agree more about suspension being a very personal preference thing and I what I love others may not love. I chose not spend a dime on my 4CS and I don't regret the decision one bit :-)
That's the key! Don't spend a dime on the 4CS, or you will be chasing it forever! LOL!
Moto3731
Profile picture for user Moto3731
Posts
256
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
MA US
Moto3731 12/30/2015 5:29am
12/30/2015 5:29am
I actually rode a well set up pair from fc and digger rode a pair set up by powerband racing and they actually can be made to work quite well. I think a lot of it is in people's heads about hearing how bad they are. I know my fc setup is def race able. But I still chose to go the cone valve route because I wanted to try the best and glad I made that decision. But if I didn't have money to go out and buy cone valves the sss route is prob what I would do also. Like you guys said its all personal opinion and choice.
Dannyderasmo106 12/30/2015 3:07pm
12/30/2015 3:07pm
If you buy an extra set of ktm forks to do a kyb kit in your still spending almost 2 grand. Kyb conversion is around 1400 with the cheapest yz take off forks. Plus used 4cs are around 5 or 6 hundred. I bought diggers cone valves for 2500. So in reality its 500 dollars more for cone valves over kyb if not less. once your at 2 grand whats another couple hundred. But either way you cant put a price on fun.
John_Anthony 12/31/2015 3:44am
12/31/2015 3:44am
Dannyderasmo106 wrote:
If you buy an extra set of ktm forks to do a kyb kit in your still spending almost 2 grand. Kyb conversion is around 1400...
If you buy an extra set of ktm forks to do a kyb kit in your still spending almost 2 grand. Kyb conversion is around 1400 with the cheapest yz take off forks. Plus used 4cs are around 5 or 6 hundred. I bought diggers cone valves for 2500. So in reality its 500 dollars more for cone valves over kyb if not less. once your at 2 grand whats another couple hundred. But either way you cant put a price on fun.
Buying a set of forks worked for me, ONLY because I bought the whole bike, took the forks off of it and sold the bike for the same price. Got a set of forks but didn't cost me anything, guess I have to watch what I say... LOL.... Just to note again! Cone Valve forks can challenge several rider types, and they are not for your average tuner to even mess with. I know of a pro rider who prefers KYB carts over the cone setup. I ride with a guy who has cone vales, hes not that impressed for our track conditions and of course type / skill level of rider has a lot to do with it. The point I'd like to make, is either direction you go is a good decision, but when making that decision do the research... Hypothetically speaking, if we considered these setups equal for 90% of the riding population, then why not save the $1500+... I still cannot find a full set of cone valve forks for $2500, if someone has this contact please provide. The best I found was $3400...for complete bolt on. And lets not forget Danny's quote " You can't put a price on fun"! How true is that... Every time I put a new set of rubber on, I NEVER look at the cost, I just think about how sweet it feels....
Pirate421
Profile picture for user Pirate421
Posts
1826
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
MA US
Pirate421 12/31/2015 5:35am
12/31/2015 5:35am
KTMShane699 wrote:
I got my pair brand new, set up for me for under $3,000 to my door. And resale currently seems to be in the $2500 range...
I got my pair brand new, set up for me for under $3,000 to my door. And resale currently seems to be in the $2500 range. Considering the highly coveted Kreft setup runs $900-1200 from my understanding, the swing isn't huge when you add in the coating alone on the kit forks. I believe FC gets about $750 to DLC coat the legs.

Like I've said before, if people crunched the numbers (and I guess being a numbers guy is what's allowed me to do things like this), they'd probably find the best deal in the end isn't the revalve. You have to front the money for kit suspension, which you shouldn't do if it's the last of your bank account. But the money isn't gone, it's just tied up in an asset that retains a value.

What's not for someone to like about riding top notch suspension for less than a revalve?

Shane
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money.
Called FC and Racetech and a few other shops. All had their own specs and "special" parts and quotes of $700-900 for revalve.

I called Kreft since I live in TX and he said he could modify the stock internals with no special parts like the others. Well I really love the forks and shock and so do all my buddies.

Now, you can spend $1200 at Kreft, but that is just one option for 4cs. I have the '14 CC forks but I was back riding for $550.

Not discounting the CVs because I would love some, just my experience with Kreft is he's real good and $1200 is not the end all be all he has plenty of options.
KTMShane699
Profile picture for user KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
KTMShane699 12/31/2015 6:31am
12/31/2015 6:31am
Pirate421 wrote:
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money. Called FC...
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money.
Called FC and Racetech and a few other shops. All had their own specs and "special" parts and quotes of $700-900 for revalve.

I called Kreft since I live in TX and he said he could modify the stock internals with no special parts like the others. Well I really love the forks and shock and so do all my buddies.

Now, you can spend $1200 at Kreft, but that is just one option for 4cs. I have the '14 CC forks but I was back riding for $550.

Not discounting the CVs because I would love some, just my experience with Kreft is he's real good and $1200 is not the end all be all he has plenty of options.
There are certainly less expensive options out there. Even from each source more than likely.

It sounds like Kreft did a great job with your suspension and you're ultimately happy with it and what you spent. The one thing to keep in mind is that you started with a 2014 closed chamber fork which is an entirely different product than the 4CS fork. What it took to make the closed cartridge fork acceptable is a vast difference from the 4CS forks.

All of that being said, I've heard plenty of good things about Kreft and a lot of satisfied customers. As long as the customer is satisfied and feels that they got a good value for their dollars spent, then it's a success for the business and the customer. The majority of the information I've seen on his 4CS fix is the higher dollar modification, and it seems to work well.

I also think in the basis of comparing product costs for modification, you need to start with the same product. In this case that would be the 4CS, otherwise the comparison is skewed.

Shane
John_Anthony 12/31/2015 6:33am
12/31/2015 6:33am
KTMShane699 wrote:
I got my pair brand new, set up for me for under $3,000 to my door. And resale currently seems to be in the $2500 range...
I got my pair brand new, set up for me for under $3,000 to my door. And resale currently seems to be in the $2500 range. Considering the highly coveted Kreft setup runs $900-1200 from my understanding, the swing isn't huge when you add in the coating alone on the kit forks. I believe FC gets about $750 to DLC coat the legs.

Like I've said before, if people crunched the numbers (and I guess being a numbers guy is what's allowed me to do things like this), they'd probably find the best deal in the end isn't the revalve. You have to front the money for kit suspension, which you shouldn't do if it's the last of your bank account. But the money isn't gone, it's just tied up in an asset that retains a value.

What's not for someone to like about riding top notch suspension for less than a revalve?

Shane
Pirate421 wrote:
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money. Called FC...
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money.
Called FC and Racetech and a few other shops. All had their own specs and "special" parts and quotes of $700-900 for revalve.

I called Kreft since I live in TX and he said he could modify the stock internals with no special parts like the others. Well I really love the forks and shock and so do all my buddies.

Now, you can spend $1200 at Kreft, but that is just one option for 4cs. I have the '14 CC forks but I was back riding for $550.

Not discounting the CVs because I would love some, just my experience with Kreft is he's real good and $1200 is not the end all be all he has plenty of options.
I might add Pirate experience is with the closed chamber, totally different animal then the 4CS. I road several CC forks that worked well. I've NEVER been on a set of 4CS that worked well.
John_Anthony 12/31/2015 6:35am
12/31/2015 6:35am
Pirate421 wrote:
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money. Called FC...
I had Kreft do my 250sx and can add maybe a little. I was seriously going to get CVs but didn't have the money.
Called FC and Racetech and a few other shops. All had their own specs and "special" parts and quotes of $700-900 for revalve.

I called Kreft since I live in TX and he said he could modify the stock internals with no special parts like the others. Well I really love the forks and shock and so do all my buddies.

Now, you can spend $1200 at Kreft, but that is just one option for 4cs. I have the '14 CC forks but I was back riding for $550.

Not discounting the CVs because I would love some, just my experience with Kreft is he's real good and $1200 is not the end all be all he has plenty of options.
KTMShane699 wrote:
There are certainly less expensive options out there. Even from each source more than likely. It sounds like Kreft did a great job with your suspension...
There are certainly less expensive options out there. Even from each source more than likely.

It sounds like Kreft did a great job with your suspension and you're ultimately happy with it and what you spent. The one thing to keep in mind is that you started with a 2014 closed chamber fork which is an entirely different product than the 4CS fork. What it took to make the closed cartridge fork acceptable is a vast difference from the 4CS forks.

All of that being said, I've heard plenty of good things about Kreft and a lot of satisfied customers. As long as the customer is satisfied and feels that they got a good value for their dollars spent, then it's a success for the business and the customer. The majority of the information I've seen on his 4CS fix is the higher dollar modification, and it seems to work well.

I also think in the basis of comparing product costs for modification, you need to start with the same product. In this case that would be the 4CS, otherwise the comparison is skewed.

Shane
Dang Shane, well said, and I think you beat me to the finish by seconds..... LOL!
Pirate421
Profile picture for user Pirate421
Posts
1826
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
MA US
Pirate421 12/31/2015 6:49am
12/31/2015 6:49am
You guys are exactly right. That's why I made sure to mention I was working with CC. The 4cs are absolutely a different animal and will require different approach/solutions. I just wanted to share my experience with Kreft since it sounded like a lot of people had "heard" good things and wanted to share my first hand experience.

But yes Shane and Anthony are right. In talking with Kreft he has multiple stages for each fork unlike a one size solution.
1
Moto3731
Profile picture for user Moto3731
Posts
256
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
MA US
Moto3731 12/31/2015 8:31am
12/31/2015 8:31am
I have a set of mint cone valves for sale for 2500 done by powerband and he modifies the mid ale with a Showa a kit type mid valve and let me tell you they are awesome!! I'm buying the new set that are black and red he said they will be available shortly so when they are I will sell mine. Contact me if your serious.

darren7878 12/31/2015 11:48am
12/31/2015 11:48am
What's the best price for the Ohlins cartridge kit for 4CS? Surely that's got the be a cost effective option to fix the forks?

The kit can always be sold when you change bikes?
md614
Profile picture for user md614
Posts
2
Joined
1/21/2016
Location
SC US
md614 1/21/2016 9:16pm
1/21/2016 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2016 9:18pm
I've been reading this thread for awhile and finally joined vital to let people know the 4cs conversion is well worth the 1200 I got in the total fork conversion. I can't say enough about how good they are. They totally transformed the bike. Don't waste your money on a revalve. TBT Racing delivered the best fork for the dough in my opinion. Thanks to all the guys who posted about this mod. I would have never known how good this bike could have been.

Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 1/21/2016 9:30pm
1/21/2016 9:30pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2016 10:15pm
Lots of opinions in here, probably would be more relevant if riding conditions were indicated as well as riding skill etc. Makes a difference to your impression for sure! There are dudes down here who revalved, changed 4CS to CC, ohlins inserts, full ohlins and CVs... all different speeds etc. Good to know for people reading opinions rather than just "this is the answer."

It's hardpack and chop down here a lot of the time... I'm not fast but I felt my CCs beat me up a bit. Feel more in control with the inserts–which maybe most importantly I got a steal on. They're very soft feeling compared to stock.
md614
Profile picture for user md614
Posts
2
Joined
1/21/2016
Location
SC US
md614 1/21/2016 9:58pm
1/21/2016 9:58pm
Crush wrote:
Lots of opinions in here, probably would be more relevant if riding conditions were indicated as well as riding skill etc. Makes a difference to your...
Lots of opinions in here, probably would be more relevant if riding conditions were indicated as well as riding skill etc. Makes a difference to your impression for sure! There are dudes down here who revalved, changed 4CS to CC, ohlins inserts, full ohlins and CVs... all different speeds etc. Good to know for people reading opinions rather than just "this is the answer."

It's hardpack and chop down here a lot of the time... I'm not fast but I felt my CCs beat me up a bit. Feel more in control with the inserts–which maybe most importantly I got a steal on. They're very soft feeling compared to stock.
I ride 40+A,been riding since I was seven. Race Cross Country, GNCC and Motocross. I can do it all on this fork with just clicker adjustments. I know Cones are great and even Ohlins inserts and complete forks. Ive rode them.I was just saying for the least amount of money spent to me this was a good decision.

Pit Row

See All »
CarlinoJoeVideo
Profile picture for user CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7519
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
CarlinoJoeVideo 1/21/2016 10:13pm
1/21/2016 10:13pm
Just throwing it out there, I have a friend in Oregon who's considering selling his COne valves. They are the 2014 lug style with bigger axel but you can get em for $2250ish? Message me if interested.
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 1/21/2016 10:24pm
1/21/2016 10:24pm
md614 wrote:
I ride 40+A,been riding since I was seven. Race Cross Country, GNCC and Motocross. I can do it all on this fork with just clicker adjustments...
I ride 40+A,been riding since I was seven. Race Cross Country, GNCC and Motocross. I can do it all on this fork with just clicker adjustments. I know Cones are great and even Ohlins inserts and complete forks. Ive rode them.I was just saying for the least amount of money spent to me this was a good decision.
No doubt dude! Wasn't aimed at you, just thinking of people reading this, it's hard without having a reference point to know what might apply to you. People really need to know their speed too, I know I'm slow and that I probably hit stuff others aren't... Maybe if I went quicker it'd help! haha

Tracks also - I saw a couple Suspension tuners down here comment on the twmx AER video on social media - the feedback on the video was it's great but the track was loamier than anything down here and smooth as glass.
gpracer36
Profile picture for user gpracer36
Posts
419
Joined
12/8/2011
Location
El Cajon, CA US
gpracer36 1/22/2016 7:27am
1/22/2016 7:27am
I also race 40A. Have a new 16 ktm450. Tried a revalve already from a pretty good tuner. It was really good until the track got rough. I had a set of CV on my Honda, but honestly it wasn't any better than my showa spring fork. So, I decided to try a kyb conversion from TBT. On my way to Pala this morning to try them out. Will report back today...I will give an honest report as I don't care which is best, only that it works!
SmoothOperator 1/22/2016 10:06am
1/22/2016 10:06am
'16 150sx. +30A. PNW Tracks. 145lbs. Just clicker adjustments work for me. I'm going to leave them as-is.
gpracer36
Profile picture for user gpracer36
Posts
419
Joined
12/8/2011
Location
El Cajon, CA US
gpracer36 1/22/2016 5:23pm
1/22/2016 5:23pm
gpracer36 wrote:
I also race 40A. Have a new 16 ktm450. Tried a revalve already from a pretty good tuner. It was really good until the track got...
I also race 40A. Have a new 16 ktm450. Tried a revalve already from a pretty good tuner. It was really good until the track got rough. I had a set of CV on my Honda, but honestly it wasn't any better than my showa spring fork. So, I decided to try a kyb conversion from TBT. On my way to Pala this morning to try them out. Will report back today...I will give an honest report as I don't care which is best, only that it works!
rode with the new TBT KYB conversion today. What can I say, I forgot they were there. Never gave them a thought all day, just rode and did my thing. I will say a 9 out of ten. Compared to the cone valve, the cv may feel a little more plush, but these are just fine. Ive heard the whole "ya buy the investment of the cv, you can keep them and go bike to bike", True, but I personally don't care about that. This cost me half the cost, actually 2K less and work just fine.
Tim507
Profile picture for user Tim507
Posts
3472
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR US
Tim507 1/22/2016 5:36pm
1/22/2016 5:36pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
Just throwing it out there, I have a friend in Oregon who's considering selling his COne valves. They are the 2014 lug style with bigger axel...
Just throwing it out there, I have a friend in Oregon who's considering selling his COne valves. They are the 2014 lug style with bigger axel but you can get em for $2250ish? Message me if interested.
Pat C?
CarlinoJoeVideo
Profile picture for user CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7519
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
CarlinoJoeVideo 1/22/2016 6:24pm
1/22/2016 6:24pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
Just throwing it out there, I have a friend in Oregon who's considering selling his COne valves. They are the 2014 lug style with bigger axel...
Just throwing it out there, I have a friend in Oregon who's considering selling his COne valves. They are the 2014 lug style with bigger axel but you can get em for $2250ish? Message me if interested.
Tim507 wrote:
Pat C?
Yeah he said he's thinking about it if you know anyone interested...
Vet57
Profile picture for user Vet57
Posts
2476
Joined
12/13/2010
Location
BRO Town, MA US
Vet57 1/23/2016 12:48am
1/23/2016 12:48am
16' 350 here. CV's are back ordered until March so I'm sending in my forks to FC. They are re-valving and adding their Bump Rubber/BCV Cup Kit as well. Wondering if anyone has experience with this setup. While they obviously won't be on the same level as Cone Valves I've heard this works pretty well.
CarlinoJoeVideo
Profile picture for user CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7519
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
CarlinoJoeVideo 1/23/2016 4:41am
1/23/2016 4:41am
Vet57 wrote:
16' 350 here. CV's are back ordered until March so I'm sending in my forks to FC. They are re-valving and adding their Bump Rubber/BCV Cup...
16' 350 here. CV's are back ordered until March so I'm sending in my forks to FC. They are re-valving and adding their Bump Rubber/BCV Cup Kit as well. Wondering if anyone has experience with this setup. While they obviously won't be on the same level as Cone Valves I've heard this works pretty well.
Yeah I had a good setup from them. Took me a few tries. I kept having them make the initial stroke softer and adding more oil to give it bottoming resistance. Worked decent compared to CVs. Not sure how far you are from them but don't be scared to keep changing them until you are happy. Mine were too stiff, then too soft then we got it right.
Schipwreck
Profile picture for user Schipwreck
Posts
146
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Paso Robles, CA US
Schipwreck 1/23/2016 9:31am
1/23/2016 9:31am
Just got mine back from Corey at ProTune Suspension.. all i have to say is WOW night and day better!! I did NOT go with the SSS conversion but went with his internal mods and valving suggestions. He was straight forward on the phone and gave me options and pricing on the spot.. I was skeptical sending my stuff from CA to Ohio and rolling the dice with a smaller named tuner. There is hope for the 4cs thank god and without having to spend $1200+ on them. Call this guy he rocks A++
John_Anthony 1/24/2016 7:28pm
1/24/2016 7:28pm
Schipwreck wrote:
Just got mine back from Corey at ProTune Suspension.. all i have to say is WOW night and day better!! I did NOT go with the...
Just got mine back from Corey at ProTune Suspension.. all i have to say is WOW night and day better!! I did NOT go with the SSS conversion but went with his internal mods and valving suggestions. He was straight forward on the phone and gave me options and pricing on the spot.. I was skeptical sending my stuff from CA to Ohio and rolling the dice with a smaller named tuner. There is hope for the 4cs thank god and without having to spend $1200+ on them. Call this guy he rocks A++
Yea, spoke to Corey several times, very informative, and that's what stimulated me going to the KYB carts. Corey tunes back to back with the 4CS valved, and the SSS conversion. He will tell you himself, although he gets the 4CS working good, they're not KYBsss, just can't get it... It's great you didn't have to spend the extra money to be happy, but when it comes to having fun on the roughest of conditions, it's money well spent. Also, would love to hear a ride report after you give the forks a good run on some rough.
ob
Profile picture for user ob
Posts
1751
Joined
3/14/2010
Location
Cardiff , CA US
ob 1/31/2016 1:13pm
1/31/2016 1:13pm
Does anybody have any info on dal saggio inserts for 4cs tubes? Any idea on who in the U.S sells them? They sound promising.

Post a reply to: WP 4cs forks