Pro Circuit... cams.. really?

PTshox
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PTshox
Edited Date/Time 12/6/2015 12:40pm
So I called Pro Circuit today about a cam shaft for a CRF250. They have no spec's on it on their web site. So I make a simple call looking to get the spec's to see if this cam is possibly different/ more aggressive or what then what I have for the bike now. I have 3 cams in my garage for the bike currently.

So they tell me they won't give me any spec's on the cam. I'm like... "huh... how do I know what kind of cam it is? Low, mid, etc... need some data to make a decision". They respond by telling me "we are not allowed to give out that information."

Well, I'm not allowed to purchase a cam from someone that won't give me any information about it. Yet, I can get this info from everyone else I have cams from.

Really Mitch... Really?
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GeorgiePorgie 12/2/2015 10:25pm
12/2/2015 10:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/2/2015 10:27pm
Excellent question to ask Mitch privately in a letter....

What about dyno info or something ? Of course I do t think these companies hire engineers as customer service Reps...
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 12/2/2015 10:29pm
12/2/2015 10:29pm
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
colintrax
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colintrax 12/2/2015 10:33pm
12/2/2015 10:33pm
SwapperMX wrote:
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
Pretty normal for cam companies to release the specs so you know what you're getting and if it'll work with whatever valve springs, piston
Rich Piano
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Rich Piano 12/2/2015 10:36pm
12/2/2015 10:36pm
Dyno readings are mostly bullshit and only effective if all tests are on the same dyno under the same conditions.

Also, what works on a dyno may suck ass in real life.
Plus, you can make any modification look like a hero or zero if you know how to do it.

The Shop

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Rich Piano
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Rich Piano 12/2/2015 10:41pm
12/2/2015 10:41pm
SwapperMX wrote:
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
Thats invalid. Company A buys company Bs cam and copies it.

Use a Pulp sponsors product.
Get a discount too.

Does PC even make cams or do they source it out?
jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/2/2015 10:41pm
12/2/2015 10:41pm
Asking for " what the cam does " and asking " What are the spec's " are two different questions. It's a good question , but maybe call them back and explain that you just needed to know if it's machined for a bottom , mid-range or top end hit. Or just ask them what pipe would go good with the cam. Could give you an idea on what it was built for.
moto455va
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moto455va 12/2/2015 10:43pm
12/2/2015 10:43pm
SwapperMX wrote:
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
What's stopping someone from just buying one and copying it?

I also doubt theyre selling their super hopped up versions to customers anyway.
PTshox
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PTshox 12/2/2015 11:23pm
12/2/2015 11:23pm
Yep... he told me "we race with this profile"... "We've tested it"..or something to that affect.

Well.. that doesn't help me Mr Consumer. I felt like there was a guy with a cloth over the thing hiding it from what it was.

It's really just poor business practices. He also stated "Mitch doesn't want us to tell the public what the spec's are"

Ok.

Hey Mitch I'm not buying any products from your company as you won't tell me what it is I'm buying. Which is a fair and reasonable question I'm asking. Plus your stuff is mostly over priced.


Vet57
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Vet57 12/3/2015 3:08am
12/3/2015 3:08am
colintrax wrote:
Pretty normal for cam companies to release the specs so you know what you're getting and if it'll work with whatever valve springs, piston
What he said..
tmauto769 12/3/2015 4:26am
12/3/2015 4:26am
I put one of their cams in a 2008 crf250, it was ALL top end. I got it used, but I see your concerns I wouldn't buy a new one from them either if the are not willing to list the lifts, durations, etc.. Maybe they don't really know themselves? Whatever the case may be it is pretty lame. I have never heard of a camshaft manufacturer not giving the specs?
Like someone posted above, it can be measured and duplicated real easy.
walent215
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walent215 12/3/2015 4:27am
12/3/2015 4:27am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2015 4:48am
Interestingly some builders don't want the info out there given freely like that, however if you know how to measure a cam, you know the profile. I understand this wont help yoy in this case, just saying.We've got a crf250 also and I have 2 Webcams, one in our race motor that was built by George at bpm and I have another that I bought straight from Ron Hamp. Both cams have identifying numbers on them yet when I contacted Webcams for the profiles, they gave me the bpm profile but not the rhc. Both cams perform amazing but it's hard to gauge differences as the bpm cam is so aggressive that 24mm buckets are needed. The rhc cam just requires a spring kit and we run it with stock valves. Don't let that fool you though, the rhc cam is unreal in performance. Not cheap either ,but worth it imo.
Reefer Sutherland 12/3/2015 4:38am
12/3/2015 4:38am
SwapperMX wrote:
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
Rich Piano wrote:
Thats invalid. Company A buys company Bs cam and copies it. Use a Pulp sponsors product. Get a discount too. Does PC even make cams or...
Thats invalid. Company A buys company Bs cam and copies it.

Use a Pulp sponsors product.
Get a discount too.

Does PC even make cams or do they source it out?
Pro Circuit doesn't make anything. They source everything out. "CMI" is a logo you'll see on the PC bike's airbox and fender. They make everything. Except for exhaust flanges. It's been that way since they went from Honda to Kawasaki.

As far as cams... Web Cam is in the 909 area code, and that's who most everyone uses. It would be a safe bet to assume that is who is grinding PC's but I don;t know that for sure.
526
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526 12/3/2015 4:43am
12/3/2015 4:43am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2015 4:47am
SwapperMX wrote:
Makes sense to me. They don't want you copying their cam grind, which no doubt took a bunch of R&D and testing.
Every cam shaft you buy for any combustion engine comes with a cam card from a reputable company anyway. How do you spec valve springs? I think the "C" team was answering the phone that day.
Olson
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Olson 12/3/2015 5:07am
12/3/2015 5:07am
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Excellent question to ask Mitch privately in a letter.... What about dyno info or something ? Of course I do t think these companies hire engineers...
Excellent question to ask Mitch privately in a letter....

What about dyno info or something ? Of course I do t think these companies hire engineers as customer service Reps...
Are you working for the postal services? You've been promoting them pretty hard lately.
sgrimmxdad 12/3/2015 5:24am
12/3/2015 5:24am
That's crazy... I'm huge into a V6 HIGH HP engines. All the cam guys post their specs. You can't properly PLAN your build without them. That's putting a lot of trust into a name brand...
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 12/3/2015 6:07am
12/3/2015 6:07am
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one company? "Hey send me everything I need for a factory feel motor!"
Reefer Sutherland 12/3/2015 6:10am
12/3/2015 6:10am
kkawboy14 wrote:
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one...
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one company? "Hey send me everything I need for a factory feel motor!"
Because that's what people who know nothing do.
Olson
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Olson 12/3/2015 6:14am
12/3/2015 6:14am
kkawboy14 wrote:
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one...
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one company? "Hey send me everything I need for a factory feel motor!"
So the company just knows what engine characteristics the consumer wants? It's just like getting the GYTR tuner but Yamaha wont tell you if it's high rev or mid. You just get what they decide you want without knowing you. Problem here is if they wont tell their spec he will find out if he purchases it. What difference does that make to the producer? None in my book.Just list the spec! They got to have more than one cam?

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deltadestroyer11 12/3/2015 7:03am
12/3/2015 7:03am
I don't like how PC doesn't tell what compression ratio they're high compression pistons are in any outlet that sells they're pistons..
I've called several places that sell PX high compression pistons and asked what's the ratio and they all said... we don't know... it doesn't say... I'm like well I want a 13:5.1 and they can't tell me if that's what it is or not... So am I supposed to just buy they're pistons and hope for the best... I don't think so...
Big E
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Big E 12/3/2015 7:04am
12/3/2015 7:04am
PTshox wrote:
So I called Pro Circuit today about a cam shaft for a CRF250. They have no spec's on it on their web site. So I make...
So I called Pro Circuit today about a cam shaft for a CRF250. They have no spec's on it on their web site. So I make a simple call looking to get the spec's to see if this cam is possibly different/ more aggressive or what then what I have for the bike now. I have 3 cams in my garage for the bike currently.

So they tell me they won't give me any spec's on the cam. I'm like... "huh... how do I know what kind of cam it is? Low, mid, etc... need some data to make a decision". They respond by telling me "we are not allowed to give out that information."

Well, I'm not allowed to purchase a cam from someone that won't give me any information about it. Yet, I can get this info from everyone else I have cams from.

Really Mitch... Really?
Call Yoshimura...
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 12/3/2015 7:15am
12/3/2015 7:15am
Well, it's certainly not been a great past few days for PC and FMF
Reefer Sutherland 12/3/2015 7:21am
12/3/2015 7:21am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Well, it's certainly not been a great past few days for PC and FMF
I would still rather contribute to the U.S. economy than Japan's (Yoshi). Try calling Rocket. I know he has cams and entire packages.
flomiester
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flomiester 12/3/2015 7:25am
12/3/2015 7:25am
The only real numbers that should be advertised are the center lines and lift. Duration numbers are of know value unless you have them @ the same checking lift .Even with all that information its still difficult to compare what the cam will do in the engine so its best to give a description of the way it makes power .Mega cycle was making the cams for pro circuit .I had a cam sent here that had familiar numbers to a web camshaft it was a new billet with the company name on it when Web Cam and I measured it on special equipment we determined that it was identical to a cam that web had been supplying them for some time so yes people do copy cam profiles.If some body purchases one of my RHC grinds from web cam or Me I will always supply them with the information it takes to get it installed properly and a description of the power curve produced by it .Also the exhaust and porting will affect how the cam performs there has been situations where a cam produced less than desirable results with a stock head but performed better with different porting .Your always better off to consult the engine builder for the right combination ass hes probally already tried and succeeded with a specific combination .One other thing to consider is a false sense of power you can install a cam that has more duration and and it produces a midrange hit and seems to rev for ever and in a sense that's whats happening the air speed is slow in the port with less low end when it finally catches up it produces the hit the engine produces less power after the hit and takes longer getting to the rev limiter proof is the rev limiter did not change .Using a good cam and port combination will have the engine run through faster and the rider thinks he has a dog shifting gearing and raising the rev limiter all affects the feel of a good race engine.
MXD
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MXD 12/3/2015 7:25am
12/3/2015 7:25am
Laughing Laughing Laughing

You have to run it to see what's in it.
ML512
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ML512 12/3/2015 7:34am
12/3/2015 7:34am
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
Pro Circuit doesn't make anything. They source everything out. "CMI" is a logo you'll see on the PC bike's airbox and fender. They make everything. Except...
Pro Circuit doesn't make anything. They source everything out. "CMI" is a logo you'll see on the PC bike's airbox and fender. They make everything. Except for exhaust flanges. It's been that way since they went from Honda to Kawasaki.

As far as cams... Web Cam is in the 909 area code, and that's who most everyone uses. It would be a safe bet to assume that is who is grinding PC's but I don;t know that for sure.
Megacycle cams, JE for pistons, and Del West does the valves and retainers. I think I know who does the valve springs, but I'm not 100% sure so I won't throw that one out there.
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mb 12/3/2015 7:54am
12/3/2015 7:54am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
That's crazy... I'm huge into a V6 HIGH HP engines. All the cam guys post their specs. You can't properly PLAN your build without them. That's...
That's crazy... I'm huge into a V6 HIGH HP engines. All the cam guys post their specs. You can't properly PLAN your build without them. That's putting a lot of trust into a name brand...
You a fan on the 6G72 by chance?
RPM68
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RPM68 12/3/2015 8:04am
12/3/2015 8:04am
Buy a 450, problem solved.
Big E
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Big E 12/3/2015 9:14am
12/3/2015 9:14am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Well, it's certainly not been a great past few days for PC and FMF
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
I would still rather contribute to the U.S. economy than Japan's (Yoshi). Try calling Rocket. I know he has cams and entire packages.
What kind of a comment is that? There are 135 employees here at Yoshimura U S A!
Rich Piano
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Rich Piano 12/3/2015 9:37am
12/3/2015 9:37am
LOLZ. You and Guy B have been a roll lately.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 12/3/2015 9:59am
12/3/2015 9:59am
kkawboy14 wrote:
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one...
This is a question because I know nothing of what you are asking: why wouldn't a guy purchase everything he needed for the build from one company? "Hey send me everything I need for a factory feel motor!"
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
Because that's what people who know nothing do.
Are there a bunch of different combinations a guy could make for a 450 motor? My stock motor with an FMF pipe and 100 octane race fuel pulls to the moon from the bottom. I don't know if there is much more I would want but my son in laws 2014 crf250 is a pig/slow

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