Canadian 2 stroke rules changes

kiwifan
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11/12/2015 11:38pm
wow what a conspiracy theory...you seriously believe that the Japanese manufacturers you mentioned swayed the Canadian promoters??? really??? I havent seen any of them complain about others that do produce two strokes...feel free to post links that show this to prove me wrong.
1
HenryA
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Stockholm, SE
11/12/2015 11:46pm
So what bike you are allowed to race on is based on your nationality? Now that is some kind of new-level bullshit. WTF?

11/13/2015 12:49am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2015 1:04am
There is an important quote lost in this debacle:

"That has been achieved in all regions of the country, apparent by the growing number of 250 two-strokes that line up every weekend to race."

Can I get a HELL YES!

Did Mark Stallybrass at least do a little dry heave when he posted that rule?
VET176
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Brisbane, AU
11/13/2015 12:52am
kiwifan wrote:
wow what a conspiracy theory...you seriously believe that the Japanese manufacturers you mentioned swayed the Canadian promoters??? really??? I havent seen any of them complain about...
wow what a conspiracy theory...you seriously believe that the Japanese manufacturers you mentioned swayed the Canadian promoters??? really??? I havent seen any of them complain about others that do produce two strokes...feel free to post links that show this to prove me wrong.
Do you seriously believe that the non 2 stroke Japanese manufacturers (Canadian chapter) weren’t behind this?

The Shop

ATKpilot99
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11/13/2015 5:25am
Looks like DC was correct . Imagine the shitstorm cc for cc would create in the AMA Nationals . Didn't read the whole thread ,sorry if its been mentioned.
sybro
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11/13/2015 5:56am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2015 6:06am
TeamGreen wrote:
As some of you know, in a HUGE fan and supporter of the Canadian Nationals; however, I can't even begin to understand the "Canadians Only" aspect...
As some of you know, in a HUGE fan and supporter of the Canadian Nationals; however, I can't even begin to understand the "Canadians Only" aspect of this rule & I know they're going to hear about it from a sponsor...or 2.

Hey, I know, how about some "Americans Only" rules for LL's, SX, The Nationals, Red Bull Straight & MEC?

Honestly, I'm really disappointed to see this Non-Inclusive crap in the rule book. I mean, think about it, I'm a U.S. Citizen INVESTING in Canadian racing.
It's pretty dam close to it at Loretta.

And It's really a pain to go through the eligibility application for canadian. My daughter applied last year and they just never answered our application request

9. Foreign or Non-US citizens must obtain eligibility approval from the AMA prior to participating in the National program at any level (Qualifier, Regional or National Final). With the exception of Canada, foreign citizens are not eligible for a “C” designated class. Click HERE for AMA International License Eligibility Application.
MxRewind
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11/13/2015 6:21am
Just because there is a ton of miss understanding...I being from America and planning on racing a 250 two stroke in Canada was outraged when I found out I wouldn't be able to. HOWEVER, thy Canadian only rule only applies to the MX2 (lites) class. Americans/foreign riders can race the MX1 class on a 250 two stroke. I found this out by e-mailing the head of the corp. so if you are an American privateer looking to do good in the lites class well the Canadian privateers will have an advantage if they chose the 250 2.
sybro
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Montreal, CA
11/13/2015 6:32am
MxRewind wrote:
Just because there is a ton of miss understanding...I being from America and planning on racing a 250 two stroke in Canada was outraged when I...
Just because there is a ton of miss understanding...I being from America and planning on racing a 250 two stroke in Canada was outraged when I found out I wouldn't be able to. HOWEVER, thy Canadian only rule only applies to the MX2 (lites) class. Americans/foreign riders can race the MX1 class on a 250 two stroke. I found this out by e-mailing the head of the corp. so if you are an American privateer looking to do good in the lites class well the Canadian privateers will have an advantage if they chose the 250 2.
Agreed, dumb rule but... It will only affect a handfull of guys. Most american were riding MX1 or a 4 stroke in the MX2. and the fast ones in MX2 fall in the TOP 5 category anyway.

For the ones that are saying they won't be following the series next summer because of this , it's the MX1 thats going to be fun to watch with Metcalfe, Goerke, Friese, Alessi, Faciotti, Thompson, Benoit and more..
Gringoe
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11/13/2015 6:41am
MxRewind wrote:
Just because there is a ton of miss understanding...I being from America and planning on racing a 250 two stroke in Canada was outraged when I...
Just because there is a ton of miss understanding...I being from America and planning on racing a 250 two stroke in Canada was outraged when I found out I wouldn't be able to. HOWEVER, thy Canadian only rule only applies to the MX2 (lites) class. Americans/foreign riders can race the MX1 class on a 250 two stroke. I found this out by e-mailing the head of the corp. so if you are an American privateer looking to do good in the lites class well the Canadian privateers will have an advantage if they chose the 250 2.
Yeah Americans get to race Canadians on 450s vs Canadians who get to race cc for cc haha what a joke.

Gringoe
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11/13/2015 6:46am
Dear Canucks, i need a copy of a birth certificate, I'm starting a underground identity cheating ring to let the Americans race 250 smoker in the 250 class where they should be.

sybro
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11/13/2015 6:50am
Gringoe wrote:
Dear Canucks, i need a copy of a birth certificate, I'm starting a underground identity cheating ring to let the Americans race 250 smoker in the...
Dear Canucks, i need a copy of a birth certificate, I'm starting a underground identity cheating ring to let the Americans race 250 smoker in the 250 class where they should be.

Let's get Friese to come race MX2 on a 2 stroke under Karel Benoit's name... Laughing Laughing Laughing
MxRewind
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11/13/2015 6:55am
The Canadian privateers need all the HP they can get in the lites class when the Americans step in that's all :p
11/13/2015 7:17am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2015 7:19am
I know Derek (Schuster, owner of GDR Honda) isnt too happy about the whole two stroke thing :whistle: I know a lot of riders that say...
I know Derek (Schuster, owner of GDR Honda) isnt too happy about the whole two stroke thing Whistling I know a lot of riders that say the 250 2ts are a cheater bike.
While I can see where a Honda guy is coming from being upset, it's hard to call it a "cheater" bike when it is equally available to everyone. I would think that factory built race bikes would be considered more of a "cheater" bike than a bone stock 2-stroke. Are all bikes equipped with holeshot devices "cheater" bikes? Because compared to a bike without one they have a significant advantage.
cslacker
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11/13/2015 7:31am
kiwifan wrote:
wow what a conspiracy theory...you seriously believe that the Japanese manufacturers you mentioned swayed the Canadian promoters??? really??? I havent seen any of them complain about...
wow what a conspiracy theory...you seriously believe that the Japanese manufacturers you mentioned swayed the Canadian promoters??? really??? I havent seen any of them complain about others that do produce two strokes...feel free to post links that show this to prove me wrong.
I know it's fashionable these days for 4 stroke nut huggers to constantly call out things as conspiracy theories but... The press release specifically states that the rule change was due in part to concern from the manufacturers who don't make a 2 stroke. But maybe they are lying too
bh84
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Peterborough, ON, CA
11/13/2015 10:33am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2015 10:37am
Its a well known fact that Stally and the CMRC have been going downhill lately, aside from Motopark and Gopher, where the track owners have full control over the track, track prep is shit, payback is a joke, and as a result ridership is going down. Southwestern Ontario, the biggest region in CMRC amateur motocross, has just announced its splitting off into its own series called AMO, Ryan Gauld is running it, he ran the CMRC AMO series last year and I think he did a great job for being held back so much by CMRC. I'm glad he's going out on his own now.

As for these new rules, its pretty clear who complained, Honda supports GDR, Facitooti's team, It would have had to come directly from them, because there's no way Frank, the guy who runs the team, would have whined, he's too much of an old fashioned motocross guy to whine about 2 strokes. I doubt OTSFF or Yamaha would have whined since they have smokers of their own. Jeff seems to support the new rules, I'd say there's a possibility some of it came from MCR. Bottom line, Stally and co need to grow a spine and stick to their guns. 250cc limit and thats that,
11/13/2015 12:47pm
Benoit was only competitive for the title on the 2 stroke, I watched it with my own eyes at dechaumbault. When he rode the 4 stroke...
Benoit was only competitive for the title on the 2 stroke, I watched it with my own eyes at dechaumbault. When he rode the 4 stroke he was still a top 5 guy but he didn't come around on lap 1 with a 12 second lead like he did in both motos and then almost every other race after that when he was on the two stroke. Allowing that rule to stick is pure cheating. Two strokes are great but if u want to allow a rule up there to be equivalent it should be 200cc two strokes against 250 fourstrokes. There's to much sand for this to be fair, sorry. Now in America I can see a stock 250 being competitive with Canada's 2015 rules because the tracks are harder pack and smoother and the weather is more consistent. But in Canada im sorry the tracks have big sand bumps and huge hills where the 2 stroke picks up out of the corner eay better then the 4strokes
He was leading the series in 2014 when he made the switch from the 4 stroke to the 2 stroke.

What have you won lately?
11/13/2015 12:58pm
This is infuriating. Between this and the CMA garbage we deal with, it's the reason that my son isn't going to grow up racing. MX in Canada is a dead end and it doesn't look like it will ever change. There's lots of other sports we can participate in as a family that are cheaper and less frustrating.
nytsmaC
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11/13/2015 1:02pm
KTM is the only one with a dog in the fight who is upset by the new rules. Do you really think Yamaha protested it? They put 0 effort into their 2-stroke line and it seems that the YZ125 and YZ250 only still exist to make them look like they care more than the other Japanese brands. I guarantee they hate KTM being able to kick their ass with the 250SX too.

They could have put a factory rider on a YZ250 to go head-to-head with them, but the truth is they don't want to sell YZ250's. They want everyone to think that the YZ250F is the better choice, and that is why they raced it (and lost).

Support KTM, Husqvarna, TM, Beta, Sherco, etc. These companies actually support 2-stroke racing and development. In the past 10 years the only thing Yamaha has done is keep the production going at a minimal rate. They want the 2-strokes to disappear just as much as Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki, they're just disguising it.


The Canadian only rule is insane and it shows just how arrogant the CMRC has become to think that they can do something like that. CMRC has never received a penny from me and they never will.

Good job CMRC, Where 2-strokes are allowed to race, but we'll tilt the deck to ensure that they have no chance of winning. You just jumped the shark, I won't be paying attention next year. Fucking clowns.
nytsmaC
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11/13/2015 1:10pm
The bullshit thing about all of this... If Benoit is now more dominant on a 4 stroke none of the 2 stroke rules will be revisited...
The bullshit thing about all of this...

If Benoit is now more dominant on a 4 stroke none of the 2 stroke rules will be revisited. They're building a dead end for the bike in the class with all the addendums. Just nut up and get rid of it and say it was a mistake if you have to have eligibility rules as long as a christmas wish list.
Benoit was only competitive for the title on the 2 stroke, I watched it with my own eyes at dechaumbault. When he rode the 4 stroke...
Benoit was only competitive for the title on the 2 stroke, I watched it with my own eyes at dechaumbault. When he rode the 4 stroke he was still a top 5 guy but he didn't come around on lap 1 with a 12 second lead like he did in both motos and then almost every other race after that when he was on the two stroke. Allowing that rule to stick is pure cheating. Two strokes are great but if u want to allow a rule up there to be equivalent it should be 200cc two strokes against 250 fourstrokes. There's to much sand for this to be fair, sorry. Now in America I can see a stock 250 being competitive with Canada's 2015 rules because the tracks are harder pack and smoother and the weather is more consistent. But in Canada im sorry the tracks have big sand bumps and huge hills where the 2 stroke picks up out of the corner eay better then the 4strokes
Jeff, I've always defended you on here but you have no clue what you are talking about. In 2014 he won as much on the 250F in the first half of the series as he did on the 2-stroke. The 'goon' is your boy Friese, who made a complete ass of himself all season long up here.

Since you guys have or had no factory support to my knowledge, what was stopping him from lining up on a 250 2-stroke if he thought he was at a disadvantage on his 250F?

The fastest guy always wins, and to try to discredit Benoit's championship(s) is a shitty move.

Here's a thought, if a bone-stock 250 2-stroke has such an advantage over a fully built 250F, the other manufacturers who stopped making them should pull their heads out of their asses and stop selling everyone inferior equipment.
bh84
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11/13/2015 1:33pm
I wonder if a factory rider (Kaven) can ride a done to the tits 150SX for some tracks and the 250f for others. Or bore it up to a 200, do all 2 strokes have to be stock? Do 125/150s need stock bore/stroke?

Horribly thought out rule. Stallybrass should be ashamed of himself
Jaze
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FI
11/13/2015 2:55pm
Is this a joke?
Change the rules back right now!
I'm not following canadian mx anymore. Last 2 years was intresting but not anymore.
tempura
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11/13/2015 5:01pm
So simply put the rules are... Canadians only on two stroke..BUT...you can't win on one, and if you do, then you can no longer ride oneSilly
What kind of bullshit rule is that?
OldYZRider1
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11/13/2015 5:58pm
I haven't kept up with the Canadian Pro series lately. Of the top ten finishers in the MX2 series how many were on two strokes? Maybe this is a case where the number one guy raced a two stroke and the remaining top ten were on four strokes so there's obviously a problem?? Couldn't be he was just a fast MF? Of course if the top rider was riding a brand that wasn't Japanese (that are not actively supporting two stroke efforts) then it's certain to be a problem and something must be done about it.
Zesiger 112
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11/13/2015 7:52pm
Canada, it's like they want everyone to make fun of them.
PEPE001
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11/13/2015 8:02pm
What would be the rule change for 2017?

Maybe next year you are not allowed to change a piston for the entire season.
Or 2 strokes are not allowed to change tires.
Or only 1 gallon of fuel for the main event.
Or only riders older than 50 are allowed to race them.

This is crazy and makes no sense!
If they want to have them limited just take them out completely but those rules are a joke.

romain524
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11/14/2015 2:46pm
I haven't kept up with the Canadian Pro series lately. Of the top ten finishers in the MX2 series how many were on two strokes? Maybe...
I haven't kept up with the Canadian Pro series lately. Of the top ten finishers in the MX2 series how many were on two strokes? Maybe this is a case where the number one guy raced a two stroke and the remaining top ten were on four strokes so there's obviously a problem?? Couldn't be he was just a fast MF? Of course if the top rider was riding a brand that wasn't Japanese (that are not actively supporting two stroke efforts) then it's certain to be a problem and something must be done about it.
There were only Kaven Benoit who was up front with a 2 stroke in the champ. And there were also Seth Rarick and Liam O'farrell who was around top10 places!! Less than 5 guys on a 2 strokes and only a guy on top!!

Really stupid rules, AGAIN!! The only American who try MX2 on 2 stroke (for 2 rounds) and was also in top10 was Jarek Balkovic.

I really don't understand the rule about Canadian citizen like all of us!!
11/15/2015 4:35pm
VET176 wrote:
"... the set rules and eligibility guidelines have created concern among the manufacturers that do not produce and retail a 250 two-stroke." I wonder which manufacturer...
"... the set rules and eligibility guidelines have created concern among the manufacturers that do not produce and retail a 250 two-stroke."

I wonder which manufacturer moaned the loudest?
I know Derek (Schuster, owner of GDR Honda) isnt too happy about the whole two stroke thing :whistle: I know a lot of riders that say...
I know Derek (Schuster, owner of GDR Honda) isnt too happy about the whole two stroke thing Whistling I know a lot of riders that say the 250 2ts are a cheater bike.
Remember 12 or so years ago when the 4strokes were the cheater bikes? The displacement rules were the major F up from the start.

I race up here and all these rules are so dumb. Straight dumb.

I ride intermediate class, and I can run a full mod engine in my 250 2t, but if I wanted to qualify for a pro national, I can't run any mods. If I blow my 2t up one weekend and can't fix it for the next, I can't borrow my buddy's 250f to race the next weekend.

Benoit would have won the nationals this year for sure, and probably last year, on a 250 four stroke as well. He was the best rider, regardless of bike. It was pretty rad to have a national champion winning on a 2 stroke. It was cool for us old 2 stroke fans, and I think it brought attention to the series. A full mod 250f is 100x easier to ride than a full mod or stock 250 smoker.

Anyways, we all know moto is a rich mans (boys) sport. So fuck it, privateers should race the series and grenade engines all year while dipping into their parent's bank.
SigPig
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11/16/2015 3:39am
The Canadian only rule is obviously a ploy to distract everyone from what is really going on. After all of these years of money spent on R&D, 4 strokes still can't compete the same discplacement 2 strokes.
11/16/2015 9:47am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2015 9:47am
Interesting time for 4 stroke fans. Every chance Mcgrath or Reed or any of them get they are doing a TWO STROKE video for FUN, or you look up and the Canadian Nationals is saying CC vs CC racing isn't fair and the two stroke is now the cheater bike. Grinning Grinning
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
11/16/2015 10:00am
To be fair and keep us all on track...here are the actual rules:


1) The bike must remain in stock form from the intake manifold to the exhaust port, and all engine parts between those two points. All engine parts (ie. cylinder, cylinder head, piston, rings, rod, etc.) must be OEM for that year model.

2) Intake manifold is defined from the rubber boot clamps to the carburetor. No porting or headwork allowed.

3) There are no restrictions on pipes or mufflers other than the fact that they must meet the sound rules.

4) CMRC will conduct random engine checks throughout the series if necessary. CMRC will have a cylinder, cylinder head and piston from each manufacturer for comparison.

5) Any bikes found to be modified will be excluded from the results of the day’s competition.

6) Aftermarket pistons, rings and crankshafts are permitted providing they have the stock OEM specifications.

(My question: after-market reeds and cages should be allowed...shoukdn't they?)

7) Additionally, a rider may not switch from a two-stroke to a four-stroke or visa-versa. The type of machine on which a rider begins the series is to be used to the completion (ie. Start on a two-stroke, finish on a two-stroke).

8) Modifications or replacement parts will be deemed illegal if they are not listed above.

9) Any rider that had an overall series finish in the top five in the MX2 class at the CMRC Pro Nationals within the last three years is not eligible to compete on a two-stroke.

10) Only riders that have a Canadian citizenship are permitted to compete on a two-stroke.

(My comment: this is SO WRONG & I'm thinking a non-citizen might have a legit legal challenge)

11) Top five finishers of the MX1 class in the 2016 Nationals and beyond will not be eligible to compete in the MX2 class for the following three years.

In the end the 2-Stroke Rebels have a very legitimate complaint: the Factories spend a small fortune on their 4T engines and they still can't compete with 2Ts that're based on chain-saw tech from the 20th Century.

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