Do I need to pit for gas?

wwoberg
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Soddy Daisy, TN, USA
Edited Date/Time 9/13/2015 10:45pm
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having 3 hare scramble races in the next 6 weeks all less than an hour from my house so I'm gonna race them. I have done a couple in the past and had a blast but always stopped for gas and lost a position or two doing so. The first one is next weekend and I'm trying to plan.

I have a 2013 RMZ250 with a stock tank. Race is 2 hours with 4 laps on a 9-12 mile loop.

Any advice?
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MtnBoy
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9/7/2015 5:45pm
I'd stop.

WORCS used to run 2 hours and we couldn't go the distance with bigger tanks even.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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Portland/Los Angeles, CA, USA
9/7/2015 5:46pm
I think your last lap will be cutting it close depending on how hard you ride and type of dirt.

You might as well stop on your second lap for a splash... Maybe ask some locals at the race for advice?
kkawboy14
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9/7/2015 5:50pm
1 hour 15 minutes on a tank, you should ride that long and see how much you use
MtnBoy
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9/7/2015 5:56pm
Fill a 1 gallon milk jug with gas, stop at 1 - 1.5 hours, put it in there and stab the bottom & squeeze. Poor mans "quick fill". We did that for years, it works like a charm.

The Shop

bondsmx
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Valley Acres, CA, USA
9/7/2015 6:06pm
This is one thing I know a little about..
Depending on the bike, and skill level, gas duration will vary obviously. But, there is absolutely zero chance you will make it 2 full hours on a stock or over sized tank. In my almost decade of doing off road, even the slower stuff in the tress in Washington, we would never go more then hour+15/20 min with an over sized tank. This is at pro pace, but even still, I would never try going more then that.

Only ran out of gas twice ever, once at my very first WORCS race, and one later that year less then a min from the finish line. Went 7/8 years after that without ever running out of gas.
BB
1
Tbteam
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Ormond Beach, FL, USA
9/7/2015 6:57pm
I'd listen to that guy ^^^
1
9/7/2015 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/7/2015 7:35pm
Stop at the half way. get gas, googles and gloves and a drink and you will be a new man for the rest of the race.
9/7/2015 7:59pm
This is interesting because I ran a bunch of scrambles in the northeast on a 250 XC KTM, they were 2 hour races and never even had to switch to reserve even once. Bearing in mind that 3rd gear is the highest gear you'll ever see in that neck of the woods and you will rarely ever run on the main jet.
wwoberg
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9/7/2015 8:03pm
This is interesting because I ran a bunch of scrambles in the northeast on a 250 XC KTM, they were 2 hour races and never even...
This is interesting because I ran a bunch of scrambles in the northeast on a 250 XC KTM, they were 2 hour races and never even had to switch to reserve even once. Bearing in mind that 3rd gear is the highest gear you'll ever see in that neck of the woods and you will rarely ever run on the main jet.
Yea...the two I did before I stopped halfway and got gas. Didn't really pay attention or whatnot to how much I had left. But, I do remember, in the back of my mind, that I had plenty.
cwtoyota
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Tacoma, WA, USA
9/7/2015 8:43pm
wwoberg wrote:
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having...
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having 3 hare scramble races in the next 6 weeks all less than an hour from my house so I'm gonna race them. I have done a couple in the past and had a blast but always stopped for gas and lost a position or two doing so. The first one is next weekend and I'm trying to plan.

I have a 2013 RMZ250 with a stock tank. Race is 2 hours with 4 laps on a 9-12 mile loop.

Any advice?
It depends on the terrain, rider, bike, gearing, etc... I've noticed that since the EFI bikes don't drip fuel out of the overflow as you ride, you get better range. I do think they reduce the capacity on all of these modern bikes though...

All of my experience comes from two strokes, but I think you should pit up. Losing a position is better than a DNF.


On the YZ250 with a stock tank I've run out in a two hour hare scramble in Southern Oregon. I would say it was a good mix of 60% quad size trails, 20% single track, 15% tall grass on rolling hills and 5% fire roads.

If you don't have a big tank, pit up as close to the half-way point of the race as you can. You might be able to make it with a 3+ gallon tank.

On a typical motocross track my YZ125 will run out of gas after about 45 minutes at a B class pace.
The YZ250 is somewhere in the 30 to 40 minute range on a track.
Steadman
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CA
9/7/2015 9:01pm
wwoberg wrote:
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having...
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having 3 hare scramble races in the next 6 weeks all less than an hour from my house so I'm gonna race them. I have done a couple in the past and had a blast but always stopped for gas and lost a position or two doing so. The first one is next weekend and I'm trying to plan.

I have a 2013 RMZ250 with a stock tank. Race is 2 hours with 4 laps on a 9-12 mile loop.

Any advice?
I race hare scrambles mostly (on a 250F as well). If it is a tight course, I'm talking 2nd-3rd gear tight between the trees kind of stuff you CAN go two hours. I do it all the time. I only top up on really fast courses where you would use big doses of throttle constantly or if I know I'll be pushing the 2 1/2 hour mark.

I think it really depends on the type of course and level of rider as some indicate it can't be done, but where I race I normally don't have to.

If you plan on stopping have a small gas can with 3 litres max ready to go. Cover the spout with a rag or something to keep dust out. I can normally pit myself in about 15-20 seconds.

B rider, KX250F stock tank.
9/7/2015 10:18pm Edited Date/Time 9/7/2015 10:20pm
Yes you will need to pit. I can go 2 hrs on my RMZ 250 with a 2.8 gallon tank...no way I could do it on the stock tank.
resetjet
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Tampa, FL, USA
9/8/2015 5:51am
If you are on the gas, forget about it. If you are gonna try it, bring a gatorade bottle full of gas in your camelback, so when you do run out, it doesn't result in a DNF.
Tim507
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9/8/2015 6:34am
When I was competitive the most I ever got out of a stock MX tank was 36 to 42 mile and that was riding as smooth as possible. Time has very little to do with it IMHO. It's all about how far out the needle is of the main jet or how open the butterfly is on the EFI.

As I've gown older I can now get up to 142 miles out of a KTM 3.2 tank on a DS ride by riding taller gears, being smooth and carrying speed. Been on lots of rides that when we stop for fuel my bill is the less of anyonesTongue
Switch
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9/8/2015 8:51am
2 pit guys, one to unscrew the gas cap then hand you goggles and a drink while the other puts in enough gas to get you to the finish. No need to top it off usually.

After the guy filling with fuel is done, the first guy puts the cap back on while you click it in gear. The whole thing shouldn't take longer than 20 seconds if you have a couple buddies willing to help, even less if you have a quick fill tank.

For the drink, drill a hole in the top of a small water bottle (usually 8-12oz) just big enough to stick a clean rubber hose through to act as a straw. Put a zip-tie around the hose under the cap to keep it from pulling out, make sure it goes all the way to the bottom of the bottle. As you are getting gas, they hand you this bottle, hold it with your mouth/teeth after the pit stop and you are able to drink on it until it's gone then drop it. Very normal in GNCC's, just about everyone in the afternoon uses this method to get cold fluids and/or supplements in their system.
jeffro503
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9/8/2015 9:02am
Tbteam wrote:
I'd listen to that guy ^^^
YES!
peelout
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9/8/2015 9:06am
you should be able to get 30-40 miles out of your stock tank at race speed (my opinion, 25-30mpg race speed). my strategy would be to stop on the first lap then leap frog all the guys who stop on the 2nd and 3rd. i did that at my last desert race and it worked great. i didn't lose many positions after the first stop but i gained a bunch by not hitting the pit later on.
nytsmaC
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9/8/2015 9:21am
peelout wrote:
you should be able to get 30-40 miles out of your stock tank at race speed (my opinion, 25-30mpg race speed). my strategy would be to...
you should be able to get 30-40 miles out of your stock tank at race speed (my opinion, 25-30mpg race speed). my strategy would be to stop on the first lap then leap frog all the guys who stop on the 2nd and 3rd. i did that at my last desert race and it worked great. i didn't lose many positions after the first stop but i gained a bunch by not hitting the pit later on.
I'm confused, wouldn't pitting early cause you to lose more positions? Obviously it takes the same amount of time but the riders would be less spread out, and more would get by, causing you to get stuck in more traffic.. No?
wwoberg
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9/8/2015 9:28am
Tbteam wrote:
I'd listen to that guy ^^^
jeffro503 wrote:
YES!
Sure....I'll listen and take his advice. But I will be riding at about 1/10 his speed. So I don't think it's apples to apples.
RPM68
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9/8/2015 9:38am
BB hit the nail on the head. That is one bad dude.

I only ran outta gas 1 time in TORCS, it was last lap of a 90 min race, and I lead the entire race. Such a bummer, but I bought an oversized tank before the next round for sure!
agn5009
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9/8/2015 9:40am
wwoberg wrote:
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having...
Although this is a MX site, maybe someone can give me advice on hare scrambles. I'm usually an MX rider, but a club (SORCS) is having 3 hare scramble races in the next 6 weeks all less than an hour from my house so I'm gonna race them. I have done a couple in the past and had a blast but always stopped for gas and lost a position or two doing so. The first one is next weekend and I'm trying to plan.

I have a 2013 RMZ250 with a stock tank. Race is 2 hours with 4 laps on a 9-12 mile loop.

Any advice?
Depending on your skill level and how tight or wide open the track is. Honestly though, I wouldn't chance it. I'd be willing to bet that the guys who passed you while in the pit also stopped unless they have an oversion tank. I once ran out of gas in a 3 hour race with an over size tank. Depending on how wide open the track is I now stop in 3 hour races.
peelout
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9/8/2015 9:44am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2015 10:36am
peelout wrote:
you should be able to get 30-40 miles out of your stock tank at race speed (my opinion, 25-30mpg race speed). my strategy would be to...
you should be able to get 30-40 miles out of your stock tank at race speed (my opinion, 25-30mpg race speed). my strategy would be to stop on the first lap then leap frog all the guys who stop on the 2nd and 3rd. i did that at my last desert race and it worked great. i didn't lose many positions after the first stop but i gained a bunch by not hitting the pit later on.
nytsmaC wrote:
I'm confused, wouldn't pitting early cause you to lose more positions? Obviously it takes the same amount of time but the riders would be less spread...
I'm confused, wouldn't pitting early cause you to lose more positions? Obviously it takes the same amount of time but the riders would be less spread out, and more would get by, causing you to get stuck in more traffic.. No?
depends on the start and the number of guys. in my case, i had a horrible start and was behind a bunch of slower riders the first loop. when i pitted, i had a big gap ahead of me so i was able to close that, then when they all stopped on the second and 3rd loops i leap-frogged them. if you're out front off the start then absolutely don't pit until the last lap.

either that or slap a 3.5 gallon tank on and skip all the pits and go for the glory
mxer512
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Wichita, KS, USA
9/8/2015 9:51am
run two laps and pit for sure. no way you will make it on a stock tank. I have an oversize tank on my kx250f and i still stop. its just about peace of mind so u can focus on the terrain and not on somthing else. If u wanted to you could fill up and clock time on your hour meter ( if you have and hour meter) then see how long it takes to run it out. it should be pretty close within .25 hrs or so give or take for differant pace . this will give you a general idea of how long you can go.
DPR250R
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9/8/2015 10:03am
MtnBoy wrote:
Fill a 1 gallon milk jug with gas, stop at 1 - 1.5 hours, put it in there and stab the bottom & squeeze. Poor mans...
Fill a 1 gallon milk jug with gas, stop at 1 - 1.5 hours, put it in there and stab the bottom & squeeze. Poor mans "quick fill". We did that for years, it works like a charm.
Really?? One time I tried to use a plastic milk jug to carry gas and in about 20 minites it ate through the plastic and blew out the bottom.

Gas was everywhere. I swore I would never do that again.
ktm212
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Lafayette, NJ, USA
9/8/2015 10:16am
Jap bikes have TINY tanks, there is a 0% chance you will make the 2 hours.You can most likely go 1:15-1:30 on a slow course. Anything Wide open like alot of the southern offroad races have you'll def need gas; fresh goggles are always nice too. Good Luck though!
kkawboy14
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9/8/2015 12:42pm
What's wrong with practicing and figuring it out? You gotta practice for this race anyway!
9/8/2015 12:50pm
bondsmx wrote:
This is one thing I know a little about.. Depending on the bike, and skill level, gas duration will vary obviously. But, there is absolutely zero...
This is one thing I know a little about..
Depending on the bike, and skill level, gas duration will vary obviously. But, there is absolutely zero chance you will make it 2 full hours on a stock or over sized tank. In my almost decade of doing off road, even the slower stuff in the tress in Washington, we would never go more then hour+15/20 min with an over sized tank. This is at pro pace, but even still, I would never try going more then that.

Only ran out of gas twice ever, once at my very first WORCS race, and one later that year less then a min from the finish line. Went 7/8 years after that without ever running out of gas.
BB
Were you riding @ LACR on Sunday ? If not, there's a guy pretending to be you.... Laughing Laughing
bondsmx
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Valley Acres, CA, USA
9/8/2015 12:54pm
Wasn't me, I haven't rode in over a year. The only thing I can think of, is my best friend bought my national bike from 2014, and hasn't changed the numbers or graphics. But he's a little tiny guy, like half the size of me.
9/8/2015 12:55pm
bondsmx wrote:
Wasn't me, I haven't rode in over a year. The only thing I can think of, is my best friend bought my national bike from 2014...
Wasn't me, I haven't rode in over a year. The only thing I can think of, is my best friend bought my national bike from 2014, and hasn't changed the numbers or graphics. But he's a little tiny guy, like half the size of me.
Red backgrounds ?
bondsmx
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9/8/2015 1:05pm
Red, no. My national bike would have been black on white, and anything from WORCS would be yellow on blue. Red backgrounds in worcs were semi-pro or pro 2.

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