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In the US it's SX where the majority of the injuries occur, the track prep is superior in every way over the GP tracks.
What top riders have the US Nationals lost? Eli
The GP's? probably easier to name those that haven't been hurt...
Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki do not make a competitive 60.
Honda does not make a competitive 85.
Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki do not make a competitive 125.
Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki do not make a competitive 250 2 stroke.
Seems like Honda doesn't make very much at all anymore...and if no one else cares to make a 2 stroke, so what. They are all getting their ass kicked by KTM on the sales floor and don't seem to give two shits about that either. Who the hell ever thought we'd be excited over a Husqvarna ever again? Eventually the sport is going to have to look out for itself before it craps out altogether.
The Shop
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Track reform should come before bike changes in my opinion.
You think Eli's crash/any other recent crash couldn't have happened on a 2 stroke 250?
In 2009, in the mid year MX Commission 'get together', it was proposed to allow equivalency - 250 2T vs 250 4T, in the MX2 class for 2010.
That new rule, was ratified in the late year / November FIM Congress meeting - the online rules for 2010 showed equivalency was in, if only in the MX2 class. Finally, (a bit of) commonsense was being shown.
However, the rule was "dissapeared", just prior to the start of the 2010 season.
I only saw the online rules - I'd love to see if any hard copy rules were ever printed and released - they would be quite a collectors item.
And the original posters #1 point of if 300cc 2Ts would be put against 250Fs? - they won't allow 250 2Ts, how in hell could anyone think they'd allow 300s ? Must have been a 'typo' by the OP.
Around the same time, Honda pushed HARD for a rule that would have ONLY 4 strokes in the World Trials Championship. Yes, Honda - who else would be the backers of such a rule? with, at the time, them being the only ones with truly competitive Trials 4Ts, with their 250 /260 (and now, 300cc) , jewel like works bikes. Well, the production ones are bloody fantastic as well - think of something like HRC level CRF 250s and you'd have an idea of how lovely they are. Honda have made some very special 4T trials bikes, and have had a lock on obtaining the services of the very, Very best Trials riders of the last decade / decades. Dougie Lampkin and Bou, (and FujiGas) riding for Honda, have had a lock on the WTC for a long time, with only Raga, I think, getting a 2t WTC in amoungst their dominance.
As usual, much of the argument was "environmental". - applying the idea of a "clean bike class", to a sport that could, in theory, be held near anywhere ( old blokes like me would remember that same point being very much a part of the 70s "Trials Explosion", that left warehouses full of TL Hondas and, to a lesser extent, TY Yamahas) ...The classic thing Now is - go to a World Level Trials event, and hear the noise of a works, or private Honda 4T Trials bike ( and, subsequently, now the raised exhaust note level of the 2Ts - hey, what's good for the Goose, is good for the Gander......) Trials has developed quite a noise problem now.
But, for once the little companies had some power - they basically told the FIM / Honda to go and fuck themselves. Without the small Trials specialist companies, the sport would suffer. Yes, a few of them developed 4ts, and still have them available, but 2ts, other than the Works Hondas, are the dominant ( in numbers) and logical choice in Trials, still..
It's all Bull Shit.
125, 250, and Open (well 450 at least) class racing, with equivalent ccs be it 2T or 4T
. Cut out the bullshit of 'handicap class' racing, and cut the level of SX influence on Outdoors tracks. Longer motos will also reduce the 'Kamikaze' aspect of racing, too. In a world where bikes have become ever better, riders better trained ( well, you'd think they are), we've reduced race times, to that of sprint racing - leave that crap for SX and various Natonal / Local level racing, I reckon. Nah, it will never happen, we'll just get knee jerk, BS class's, orchestrated by pricks like Luongo. I'm stunned that so many here are willing to see the sport further fucked with, by a meglomaniac, and his cronies, and vested interests.
putting everyone on 250fs, or whatever they decide, is not going to make PROFESSIONAL MOTOCROSS RACING any safer. if this were a rule for the local novice class, maybe, but who knows.
what the hell are they really basing this off of? seems like they don't have an answer to that question. whatever
Naaaahhhh, it did wonders for amateur racing and that "stepping stone to the premier class" SX East/West series, not to mention outdoor nationals.
Seriously though, make it the "premier class" for the full season and open it up to 2 strokes. It will work out its own bugs. For SX there can be 8 rounds of 125's and 8 rounds of Open class. Vegas can have all three classes for the final event. Outdoors, 6 round championships for the 125 and open class. The sport needs to be about the sport again, not an infomercial.
125
250 (cc for cc)
open class-the premier class, full works bikes-let it rain! 2 stroke or 4 stroke.
I also agree with Bearuno when he says:
. Cut out the bullshit of 'handicap class' racing, and cut the level of SX influence on Outdoors tracks. Longer motos will also reduce the 'Kamikaze' aspect of racing, too. In a world where bikes have become ever better, riders better trained ( well, you'd think they are), we've reduced race times, to that of sprint racing - leave that crap for SX and various Natonal / Local level racing, I reckon. Nah, it will never happen, we'll just get knee jerk, BS class's, orchestrated by pricks like Luongo. I'm stunned that so many here are willing to see the sport further fucked with, by a meglomaniac, and his cronies, and vested interests.
This!
Limit 2 stroke 250 to 36mm carb/throttle body and 4 stroke 250 to 40mm. Something similar in Open (anything above 251cc.
A torquey engine that doesn't need to rev is far cheaper to build than something spinning at maximum velocity. The riders can't swap 2 to 4 every weekend and the varying of tracks will give favour to the different engine types.
Pit Row
F1 - has to represent global concepts so that it does not find its support and sponsorship money die. They are 1600 cc turbo with energy recovery systems. That is all about how can we spend so much money on a sport and it does not benefit the planet in some way. The tech filters down to every day use. Being off point of these issues will ultimately undermine the sport in the long term.
MotoGP - Have similar stuff going on - Fuel capacity limits.
MX GP - Could do the same thing - Fuel Capacity limits - Would mean less emissions and tuners would be forced to build efficient motors. Then capacity does not have to change. Messes up the Flat out concept of racing !
450 current work class works very well ??? Lets change it ??? Weird how that happens all the time. If you had to weight the pro and cons of 450 - Guess what it would probably have more pro's than cons - And now they have to change it so that because it has 2 cons and 8 pro's ? All that happens is they move the cons to another format !
Unfortunately often to many rules and politics spoils the sport. Like 4 strokes have killed the MX sport a lot ! By making it more expensive MX is now available to less people ! But there are more people so being responsible with resources is part of the big picture.
125 cc 250cc 500cc was a very nice formula and work well for a long time :-) Which is currently 250F and 450F which less but maybe more. What next ? Electric Hybrids ?
What is the real problem been addressed here ? Or is it just change for the sake of change ?
Ok this year it seems extreme but last year it was ok.
Its racing and we will see injuries even in 20 years.
Whats a bummer is the fact that some races don't even get 30 riders at the gate.
Why? Because of Money it is to expensive.
When I read that they changed 3 450 engines on one day on Bacia's bike that is anything than reliable.
Tell me one privateer who has 3 full modified 450 engine in his trailer.
Each engine is probably 15.000$
For 15:000$ I can get at least 2 nice 2 stroke engines.
And if the piston and or rings are blown you can change it between Motos.
We did that in the late 80's on our 125's.
The pros will always go fast and have the best material almost unlimited.
The privateers don*t and that's where the sport has to think about changes.
No Privateers, no Pro's it is that simple.
See the last races from SX it was joke they could barley fill up the gates.
As well the tracks to me are getting boring!
Was interesting spend last week a day at Monster Mountain in AL talked to the owner.
Nice guy and open minded.
He told me the "younger" rider expecting more jumps.
Most of them see a corner as a needed threat to get to the next jump.
Most tracks are all the same!
Corner, Jump, Corner, Jump aso.
That day I rode the large Track nice layout and a lot of fun but to many jumps.
Later the afternoon I rode the so called GP Track (designed for vintage bikes)
That was a blast had not so much fun the last 2 Years. I could ride and race that track all day long.
Only 2-3 jumps on the entire track and perfect to practice cornering, braking and acceleration out of turns.
Open the championship and allow 2 stroke equal CC and no matter if modified or not.
Add a 125cc class for riders up to 18.
The gap from supermini to 250f is to large!
But that's just my 2 cents I would allow any equal cc bike no matter 2stroke or 4 stroke.
And if 4 stroke head modification is allowed porting should be allowed for smokers as well.
Zracer-Weight and inertia from 450s are the bone breakers.
I would just about put a body part on it that none of the people Adam Wheeler spoke with thinks for a moment if the 450s go away people will stop getting hurt. I believe the term "harm minimization" applies to the current thinking of reducing number of injuries as well as severity. I would not overlook Pit Beier's perspective on this situation either.
BTW to those of you saying the cost of racing professionally will go up that depends on what the MX2 class winds up racing.
That said, aren't the factory KTM 250s making over 50hp? That's enough the haul even Weston around no trouble.
The 125 support class/ 250f-350f premier class system seems like the best compromise to me. The 125 class provides a cheaper option for privateers, while also being a better transition from the amateur ranks, while the premier class can still push the limits of technology.
at the nats they always have to run LCQs in the morning with more than 10 riders in each class on the gate.
so mxsports doesnt see a problem there.
big jumps are here to stay,and most if not all these guys like them. I would like to see a limit on how many super hucks a lap to have.
at local races I think you can ride a 250 2str in both classes,that is really helpful on the wallet.
4strokes are here to stay,pissing in the wind to try and change it.
I feel that it was only because of a "Bigger must be better" attitude from the consumer that they even increased the displacement size.
Post a reply to: 2018 MXGP will be 250Fs by the sound of it