Electric MX Bikes - Future of MX - Full Write Up

ginger969
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6/19/2015 2:38pm
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be...
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be interested.

I love my Tesla. It's like having roller coaster acceleration for a daily driver. Too fun!



Exactly! I've got a 2014 Chevy Spark that has 400 ft/lb torque and 170 hp as my daily EV commuter...It's SO fun to smoke people in sport mode in my little bubble car haha
cwtoyota
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6/19/2015 3:27pm
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be...
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be interested.

I love my Tesla. It's like having roller coaster acceleration for a daily driver. Too fun!



I'm all in favor of seeing this stuff come into the market and I love seeing the innovation, so don't take my post as a negative outlook. Electric is the future. The facts and the data show that the future isn't here yet for motocross bikes.

Electric motor & driver technology is ready. That's what gives you the crazy torque and programmable power delivery in your Tesla and other high end examples including RC cars.

The battery tech just isn't small or light enough yet. In order to have the range for a long moto at a fast pace, the batteries become very large and very heavy in comparison to a tank of gas and a gasoline engine/transmission system.

No doubt the electric drivetrains are already better than gasoline. They can give essentially 100% torque at zero RPM and can be programmed for perfect torque/power delivery and/or traction control. No transmission is required due to the flat torque curve and crazy RPM range of the electric motors.

We just need light weight, compact, fast charging batteries to make them competitive. The batteries we have now are giving the output power, but they need to be about 2/3 to 1/2 their existing size and weight to equal a gasoline system.

The Zero motorcycle is somewhere between a mountain bike and a motocross bike chassis in size & strength. That keeps the overall package weight down when you add the battery into the equation. Still, the specs for the Zero I've seen have it weighing a bit more than a 250F with less range and less power to weight ratio.


I can't find their motocross bike specs, but here's the dual sport version. 289 lbs. 44 HP.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php

I also don't think regenerative braking is going to be as much benefit to a motocross racer as it is to a street rider or trail rider, so the range we see on the track won't be as good. This is because we have to be aggressive on the front brake while using the rear brake as a slide, a pivot or to control the rear suspension on down-hills, etc. Since the front wheel isn't connected to the motor, the front brake can't regenerate into the battery. Maybe that innovation will come along as the bikes develop?
ginger969
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6/19/2015 3:31pm Edited Date/Time 6/19/2015 3:31pm
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be...
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be interested.

I love my Tesla. It's like having roller coaster acceleration for a daily driver. Too fun!



cwtoyota wrote:
I'm all in favor of seeing this stuff come into the market and I love seeing the innovation, so don't take my post as a negative...
I'm all in favor of seeing this stuff come into the market and I love seeing the innovation, so don't take my post as a negative outlook. Electric is the future. The facts and the data show that the future isn't here yet for motocross bikes.

Electric motor & driver technology is ready. That's what gives you the crazy torque and programmable power delivery in your Tesla and other high end examples including RC cars.

The battery tech just isn't small or light enough yet. In order to have the range for a long moto at a fast pace, the batteries become very large and very heavy in comparison to a tank of gas and a gasoline engine/transmission system.

No doubt the electric drivetrains are already better than gasoline. They can give essentially 100% torque at zero RPM and can be programmed for perfect torque/power delivery and/or traction control. No transmission is required due to the flat torque curve and crazy RPM range of the electric motors.

We just need light weight, compact, fast charging batteries to make them competitive. The batteries we have now are giving the output power, but they need to be about 2/3 to 1/2 their existing size and weight to equal a gasoline system.

The Zero motorcycle is somewhere between a mountain bike and a motocross bike chassis in size & strength. That keeps the overall package weight down when you add the battery into the equation. Still, the specs for the Zero I've seen have it weighing a bit more than a 250F with less range and less power to weight ratio.


I can't find their motocross bike specs, but here's the dual sport version. 289 lbs. 44 HP.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php

I also don't think regenerative braking is going to be as much benefit to a motocross racer as it is to a street rider or trail rider, so the range we see on the track won't be as good. This is because we have to be aggressive on the front brake while using the rear brake as a slide, a pivot or to control the rear suspension on down-hills, etc. Since the front wheel isn't connected to the motor, the front brake can't regenerate into the battery. Maybe that innovation will come along as the bikes develop?
I agree with you in all areas, but just to note, I feel that www.altamotors.co is far closer to what you're describing than Zero at this point. They're just not produced for the masses yet Sad

What are your thoughts on the Alta (BRD) bike shown on the first page here in regards to how far off it may or may not be in order to be truly competitive? I ask since they're mission statement is to make an EV bike competitive in SX/MX 250f class.
cwtoyota
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6/19/2015 4:07pm
ginger969 wrote:
I agree with you in all areas, but just to note, I feel that www.altamotors.co is far closer to what you're describing than Zero at this...
I agree with you in all areas, but just to note, I feel that www.altamotors.co is far closer to what you're describing than Zero at this point. They're just not produced for the masses yet Sad

What are your thoughts on the Alta (BRD) bike shown on the first page here in regards to how far off it may or may not be in order to be truly competitive? I ask since they're mission statement is to make an EV bike competitive in SX/MX 250f class.
Speaking strictly of the Alta, I don't know their specs, but it sure looks like it's far better than the Zero. It looks like a real MX bike chassis & wheels. I think I remember Keefer saying that on the PulpMX show at some point.

Listening to Keefer's comments in the video, he said something to the effect of the electric bike is down on power when the soil is deeper, etc. Based on that, I imagine they are playing a fine line balance between three things in their design:

1 Riding time per charge of the battery
2 Maximum power
3 Battery weight & size = max range (with a lesser concern given to motor weight & size = max power).

The Alta seems to be the best thing right now, but it's possible that companies like KTM have similar projects going on behind the scenes.

The Shop

cwtoyota
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6/19/2015 4:26pm
I have some thoughts that apply to motocross on a concept I call "horsepower per lap" or "average horsepower per minute" or "average horsepower per foot"...

I race a YZ125 most of the time. This bike makes somewhere around 34 - 36 horsepower. I sometimes win the 30+ class on it against 450cc bikes that make 50 to 60 horsepower with smoother delivery. What that means is that to go around the track with a similar lap-time, the 450F making 55 horsepower needs to be on the throttle about 61% of the time that I do. That means I'm riding the 125 engine 39% harder than the 450F. Well, that's not entirely true, since the bike is so much lighter I can take corners faster. So I don't waste as much power to braking. So let's say that accounts for half the difference. That means I need to ride my YZ125 20% harder than the guys on 450s I'm racing against. Make that 21% since they drop my on the start and I actually have to battle my way up from dead last every single moto.

Now consider the electric bike in the same way. You have to consider average horsepower per minute as you go around the track. The electric bike can be down on peak power to the 250F if you can manage to be on the power more of the time.

Alta lists their power as 25/40 which gives a little credence to my theory of HP per Minute. The 25 HP number is their "Continuous" rating. The 40 HP is the "Peak" rating.

The thing you have to consider is that my YZ125 can essentially make 34 HP at peak and continuous. The same is true for a bone stock 250F. It has essentially 40 HP peak and 40 HP continuous. The cooling system is the only limiting factor on the gasoline engine.

The battery output is the limiting factor on the electric motor. If you want the Alta to run at 40 Peak / 40 Continuous, you need to increase the battery size. That's a weight penalty that kills the performance of the bike.

On a deep loamy, sandy or muddy track, the bikes get dragged down by the soil. There is a ton of rolling resistance and the bike just doesn't carry speed. So the engine (or motor) has to work much harder to keep you up to speed. This means the average horsepower per minute you use is higher. This means the continuous HP rating of the engine must be higher.

That is why you see so many bikes overheat or blow up at sand races but not at hard-pack tracks.
This is why I believe the batteries aren't good enough yet to compete on a level playing field even with my stock YZ125.

Scientific breakthroughs in battery tech are incremental and are happening all the time. This takes several years per each new technology. As science figures out new ways to store electricity, it becomes an engineering problem and takes another several years to figure out how to manufacture the technology in an affordable manner. The mobile phone industry will make our E-Bikes possible sooner than later.
chillrich
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Kamloops CA
6/19/2015 4:54pm
Battery charging during downhills/deceleration would be of benefit too
mxridr
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MA US
6/19/2015 5:31pm
I think these things look awesome and in time they will be superior to both 2 and 4 stroke tech. Actually wish this was reality during my past racing days. Think Tesla "Insane Mode" not to mention the power delivery will be infinitely programmable via software. Noise wise, that is probably the biggest hinderance to the growth of the sport. Why do riding areas close at such an amazing rate? NOISE - motocrossers are in the minority, 95% of the population can't stand the sound of your clapped out craigslist gem, and thats why tracks get shut down
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA US
6/20/2015 1:18am
i dont think they have a place in the formal classes. if anything it shouldnt different than RC racing. you have gas classes and (gay)electric classes
6/20/2015 8:19am
$7,000 replacement battery is a kiss of death. Would not purchase $15,000 only to have to drop another 7k on a new battery a few years down the road. Forget it.
loftyair
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6/20/2015 8:49am
There are a whole bunch of those Tesla's down in the inland empire. I see 10+ a day driving around.
RangerLee
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Spring City, PA US
6/20/2015 10:02am
RangerLee wrote:
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with...
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with one, with enduros you start with your engine off and then have to start and go. This guy grabbed a massive hole shot as the bike is basically switch on and go, no kick start, just twist the throttle.

The best part was watching the rocky climb though as he ran in to slower riders from a previous group, many were stalling in the rocks heading up a good grade incline. His bike had no worries on stalling, he would stop when someone was in his way, move the front wheel and twist throttle and go again. No worrying about the clutch or stalling out.

It was pretty sick, and I think I want one.
ginger969 wrote:
I think you're referencing the videos done by Zero...I actually witnessed this in a hare scramble 6 hour ironman race two weeks ago where Zero did...
I think you're referencing the videos done by Zero...I actually witnessed this in a hare scramble 6 hour ironman race two weeks ago where Zero did very well and got the holeshot by far!

Here's one video example haha :
That's a great video.

Here is one that stood out to me I first saw last year:

ginger969
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6/20/2015 1:30pm
RangerLee wrote:
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with...
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with one, with enduros you start with your engine off and then have to start and go. This guy grabbed a massive hole shot as the bike is basically switch on and go, no kick start, just twist the throttle.

The best part was watching the rocky climb though as he ran in to slower riders from a previous group, many were stalling in the rocks heading up a good grade incline. His bike had no worries on stalling, he would stop when someone was in his way, move the front wheel and twist throttle and go again. No worrying about the clutch or stalling out.

It was pretty sick, and I think I want one.
ginger969 wrote:
I think you're referencing the videos done by Zero...I actually witnessed this in a hare scramble 6 hour ironman race two weeks ago where Zero did...
I think you're referencing the videos done by Zero...I actually witnessed this in a hare scramble 6 hour ironman race two weeks ago where Zero did very well and got the holeshot by far!

Here's one video example haha :
RangerLee wrote:
That's a great video. Here is one that stood out to me I first saw last year: [embed]https://youtu.be/PHKXP_YA40s[/embed]
That's a great video.

Here is one that stood out to me I first saw last year:

That video is SO rad haha shows some skillful riding and the advantages of an EV bike for sure!
ktmdan
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6/20/2015 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2015 2:13pm
Your points make you look absolutely uneducated. I assume you're joking though... Carry on.

Edited to tone it down to a more respectful tone Smile
6/20/2015 2:43pm
Have you seen this? OSET MX10. Not yet ready for sale. The owner of OSET, brings one and has his son ride it for testing at my track every week. It is intended to be direct competition for a KTM 50SX, it is pretty much there too!

Rdubs19
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Little Rock, AR US
6/20/2015 4:00pm
The E-MX bike thing used to weird me out, but now I'd welcome it if the performance was up to par or close to it. Getting super into MTB the last couple years has taken away my irrational oppoaition to riding in quiet, and if the bikes can be sold for a lower retail than the current lineups we might really see some resurgence of MX at the local levels. There is absolutely a market for motocross; I know here in little rock there are several very decent tracks within a couple hours, and one actually just re-opened not far from downtown. Plus the impressive popularity of mountain biking and BMX here, show there's definetely a good bit of potential demand. And this is an extremely poor area absolutely saturated with couch potatoes. I imagine similar sized metros in less necrotic parts of the country would see even more positive response to affordable electric MX bikes.
PFO186
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6/20/2015 10:25pm
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No moving your feet around, just feet on the pegs and you can totally focus on breaking points and your turns. If they match performance and price to gas bikes i think electric bikes will take off like wildfire.
ginger969
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6/20/2015 10:40pm
PFO186 wrote:
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No...
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No moving your feet around, just feet on the pegs and you can totally focus on breaking points and your turns. If they match performance and price to gas bikes i think electric bikes will take off like wildfire.
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety precautions and most people that have enough disposable income to afford one most likely will also still own and ride a gas Moto bike too which will make the switch back and forth extremely frustrating and possibly dangerous...I ride Mtb and such and that setup was engrained since I was a child but on an MX bike it is second nature to use the rear brake pedal in the air and the front brake lever in the corners and I think this would take sooo much longer to "feel" comfortable on so I think this is a bad move esp for the MX market. Agree or naw?
Derpin' DJ
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Newcastle AU
6/20/2015 11:41pm
$7,000 replacement battery is a kiss of death. Would not purchase $15,000 only to have to drop another 7k on a new battery a few years...
$7,000 replacement battery is a kiss of death. Would not purchase $15,000 only to have to drop another 7k on a new battery a few years down the road. Forget it.
The Tacita battery has 4000 cycles before the capacity reaches 80% of the initially capacity. So even if you ride every day, that's still well over 10 years before capacity would even become a problem

http://www.tacita.it/t-race-cross/

CoccoBill
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IT
6/21/2015 1:40am
PFO186 wrote:
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No...
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No moving your feet around, just feet on the pegs and you can totally focus on breaking points and your turns. If they match performance and price to gas bikes i think electric bikes will take off like wildfire.
ginger969 wrote:
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety...
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety precautions and most people that have enough disposable income to afford one most likely will also still own and ride a gas Moto bike too which will make the switch back and forth extremely frustrating and possibly dangerous...I ride Mtb and such and that setup was engrained since I was a child but on an MX bike it is second nature to use the rear brake pedal in the air and the front brake lever in the corners and I think this would take sooo much longer to "feel" comfortable on so I think this is a bad move esp for the MX market. Agree or naw?
As far as I know Alta was thinking of keeping the rear brake pedal and offering the handlebar lever as an option, don't remember where I read this, but the handlebar lever was a major complain by riders.
I would definitely go with the handlebar lever option, but i can understand that going back and forth from a gas bike to an electric one would be frustrating...
Ebs
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MI US
6/21/2015 9:50am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2015 10:02am
It would be crazy if they could take some of the hybrid technology packaged down to motorcycle size. Build me the hybrid Le Mans racer of dirtbikes. Although it wouldn't solve a lot of problems: You still have noise, extending fuel range usually has never been a huge problem on bikes, way too expensive and complex for recreation toys, etc.
PFO186
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Brewerton, NY US
6/21/2015 10:35am
PFO186 wrote:
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No...
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No moving your feet around, just feet on the pegs and you can totally focus on breaking points and your turns. If they match performance and price to gas bikes i think electric bikes will take off like wildfire.
ginger969 wrote:
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety...
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety precautions and most people that have enough disposable income to afford one most likely will also still own and ride a gas Moto bike too which will make the switch back and forth extremely frustrating and possibly dangerous...I ride Mtb and such and that setup was engrained since I was a child but on an MX bike it is second nature to use the rear brake pedal in the air and the front brake lever in the corners and I think this would take sooo much longer to "feel" comfortable on so I think this is a bad move esp for the MX market. Agree or naw?
CoccoBill wrote:
As far as I know Alta was thinking of keeping the rear brake pedal and offering the handlebar lever as an option, don't remember where I...
As far as I know Alta was thinking of keeping the rear brake pedal and offering the handlebar lever as an option, don't remember where I read this, but the handlebar lever was a major complain by riders.
I would definitely go with the handlebar lever option, but i can understand that going back and forth from a gas bike to an electric one would be frustrating...
I think you would get used to the handlebar rear brake lever quickly and eventually it would be a big advantage. It just plain makes more sense and is much easier to use, just need to adapt. I think young kids growing up with no foot break ingrained into there head could be stupid fast with this. Ppl hated four strokes at first cause you had to ride them different, but now we've adapted and look at them, big advantage
Underdog999
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Kalaheo, HI US
6/21/2015 10:36am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2015 10:41am
As people have said:

Replacement battery cost is prohibitive.
Initial cost of bike is too high.
Ride time/miles too short.
Would be nice if it didn't ride like a mountain bike, ie shifting and braking.

Otherwise, I am in love with the idea of e-motocross/trail bikes. I, too, have been following their rise in the market share, and I hope that someone can figure out how to make the batteries more user friendly!!
gt80rider
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Boulder, CO US
6/21/2015 11:06am
cwtoyota wrote:
I have some thoughts that apply to motocross on a concept I call "horsepower per lap" or "average horsepower per minute" or "average horsepower per foot"...
I have some thoughts that apply to motocross on a concept I call "horsepower per lap" or "average horsepower per minute" or "average horsepower per foot"...

I race a YZ125 most of the time. This bike makes somewhere around 34 - 36 horsepower. I sometimes win the 30+ class on it against 450cc bikes that make 50 to 60 horsepower with smoother delivery. What that means is that to go around the track with a similar lap-time, the 450F making 55 horsepower needs to be on the throttle about 61% of the time that I do. That means I'm riding the 125 engine 39% harder than the 450F. Well, that's not entirely true, since the bike is so much lighter I can take corners faster. So I don't waste as much power to braking. So let's say that accounts for half the difference. That means I need to ride my YZ125 20% harder than the guys on 450s I'm racing against. Make that 21% since they drop my on the start and I actually have to battle my way up from dead last every single moto.

Now consider the electric bike in the same way. You have to consider average horsepower per minute as you go around the track. The electric bike can be down on peak power to the 250F if you can manage to be on the power more of the time.

Alta lists their power as 25/40 which gives a little credence to my theory of HP per Minute. The 25 HP number is their "Continuous" rating. The 40 HP is the "Peak" rating.

The thing you have to consider is that my YZ125 can essentially make 34 HP at peak and continuous. The same is true for a bone stock 250F. It has essentially 40 HP peak and 40 HP continuous. The cooling system is the only limiting factor on the gasoline engine.

The battery output is the limiting factor on the electric motor. If you want the Alta to run at 40 Peak / 40 Continuous, you need to increase the battery size. That's a weight penalty that kills the performance of the bike.

On a deep loamy, sandy or muddy track, the bikes get dragged down by the soil. There is a ton of rolling resistance and the bike just doesn't carry speed. So the engine (or motor) has to work much harder to keep you up to speed. This means the average horsepower per minute you use is higher. This means the continuous HP rating of the engine must be higher.

That is why you see so many bikes overheat or blow up at sand races but not at hard-pack tracks.
This is why I believe the batteries aren't good enough yet to compete on a level playing field even with my stock YZ125.

Scientific breakthroughs in battery tech are incremental and are happening all the time. This takes several years per each new technology. As science figures out new ways to store electricity, it becomes an engineering problem and takes another several years to figure out how to manufacture the technology in an affordable manner. The mobile phone industry will make our E-Bikes possible sooner than later.
There are so many things wrong in this... Wow, just wow.
gt80rider
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6/21/2015 11:19am
$7,000 replacement battery is a kiss of death. Would not purchase $15,000 only to have to drop another 7k on a new battery a few years...
$7,000 replacement battery is a kiss of death. Would not purchase $15,000 only to have to drop another 7k on a new battery a few years down the road. Forget it.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
The Tacita battery has 4000 cycles before the capacity reaches 80% of the initially capacity. So even if you ride every day, that's still well over...
The Tacita battery has 4000 cycles before the capacity reaches 80% of the initially capacity. So even if you ride every day, that's still well over 10 years before capacity would even become a problem

http://www.tacita.it/t-race-cross/

Knowing the cell oem's like i do, there is no way they have actually tested cells out to 4000 cycles. Even at a 2c charge/discharge rate each cycle would take over an hour, so 4 thousand hours on the bench, which i have never seen anyone ever do. It would be abnormal for them to even go to 100 cycles. Their 4k cycles is likely theoretical based soley on cell design.

Furthermore... Even if the cells could do 4k cycles, how many cells are in each pack? All it takes is one out of the 2 dozen individual cells to go bad to ruin the pack. And lastly... When was the last time anyone actually road any bike for 4000 motos? Most bikes would be a pile of rubble wayyyyyy before then.

I could go on and on and on... I hate seeing/reading all the ridiculous info that is out there.
Reggsie
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Brisbane AU
6/21/2015 9:55pm
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space age look possible. Take the Tacita above; that is by far the fugliest dirt bike I have ever laid eyes upon! I think manufacturers will have a much easier time convincing riders to make the switch down the track if they tone down their designs and try to bring them more in line with current petrol engine models.

Apart from that minor quibble, I find the whole electric thing very exciting. Others have said it before me, but the opportunity to ride close to, or even within cities and towns is absolutely huge, and would mean I could ride all week, not just on the weekend.

The complaint about cost is I think a moot point, as there is no doubt that once battery tech gets better, and these bikes begin to be mass produced, the prices will come down. If you build a boutique anything, with a small model run and experimental parts, prices are going to be high to recoup R&D costs. Mass production will be the biggest driving force behind bringing the cost of these bikes down.

For me, ride time and weight are the biggest concerns. There are exciting developments happening right now with battery tech, so as long as they can get the power to weight ratio down to in line with petrol engine models, then I don't see anything stopping them taking over in the long run. Motocross has an interesting future.
SwapperMX
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AU
6/21/2015 11:16pm
Reggsie wrote:
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space...
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space age look possible. Take the Tacita above; that is by far the fugliest dirt bike I have ever laid eyes upon! I think manufacturers will have a much easier time convincing riders to make the switch down the track if they tone down their designs and try to bring them more in line with current petrol engine models.

Apart from that minor quibble, I find the whole electric thing very exciting. Others have said it before me, but the opportunity to ride close to, or even within cities and towns is absolutely huge, and would mean I could ride all week, not just on the weekend.

The complaint about cost is I think a moot point, as there is no doubt that once battery tech gets better, and these bikes begin to be mass produced, the prices will come down. If you build a boutique anything, with a small model run and experimental parts, prices are going to be high to recoup R&D costs. Mass production will be the biggest driving force behind bringing the cost of these bikes down.

For me, ride time and weight are the biggest concerns. There are exciting developments happening right now with battery tech, so as long as they can get the power to weight ratio down to in line with petrol engine models, then I don't see anything stopping them taking over in the long run. Motocross has an interesting future.
Very true about the design of all the current electric bikes. They all seem to have a Chinese look to them. Especially that Alta. Not sure if any of their components are made there, but it sure looks like they are.

I'll wait until KTM have a competitive electric bike. Once they release one, you know they'll be good !!!
ginger969
Posts
935
Joined
2/17/2011
Location
Boise, ID US
6/21/2015 11:27pm
Reggsie wrote:
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space...
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space age look possible. Take the Tacita above; that is by far the fugliest dirt bike I have ever laid eyes upon! I think manufacturers will have a much easier time convincing riders to make the switch down the track if they tone down their designs and try to bring them more in line with current petrol engine models.

Apart from that minor quibble, I find the whole electric thing very exciting. Others have said it before me, but the opportunity to ride close to, or even within cities and towns is absolutely huge, and would mean I could ride all week, not just on the weekend.

The complaint about cost is I think a moot point, as there is no doubt that once battery tech gets better, and these bikes begin to be mass produced, the prices will come down. If you build a boutique anything, with a small model run and experimental parts, prices are going to be high to recoup R&D costs. Mass production will be the biggest driving force behind bringing the cost of these bikes down.

For me, ride time and weight are the biggest concerns. There are exciting developments happening right now with battery tech, so as long as they can get the power to weight ratio down to in line with petrol engine models, then I don't see anything stopping them taking over in the long run. Motocross has an interesting future.
SwapperMX wrote:
Very true about the design of all the current electric bikes. They all seem to have a Chinese look to them. Especially that Alta. Not sure...
Very true about the design of all the current electric bikes. They all seem to have a Chinese look to them. Especially that Alta. Not sure if any of their components are made there, but it sure looks like they are.

I'll wait until KTM have a competitive electric bike. Once they release one, you know they'll be good !!!
The Alta has all top notch parts, ohlin suspension, renthal bars, excel wheels, brembo brakes and all high quality made in America product parts...not if you've read up on them yet but they seem like great builds! The KTM free ride E is a really cool bike but not available in the U.S. and is more like a pumped super mini play bike which is rad, but not focused on being 250f competitive like the Alta's mission statement says...pretty cool either way
Reggsie
Posts
210
Joined
11/12/2014
Location
Brisbane AU
6/21/2015 11:45pm
Reggsie wrote:
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space...
My biggest complaint with electric bikes...? The fact that every manufacturer who makes one feels the need to give their creation the most far out, space age look possible. Take the Tacita above; that is by far the fugliest dirt bike I have ever laid eyes upon! I think manufacturers will have a much easier time convincing riders to make the switch down the track if they tone down their designs and try to bring them more in line with current petrol engine models.

Apart from that minor quibble, I find the whole electric thing very exciting. Others have said it before me, but the opportunity to ride close to, or even within cities and towns is absolutely huge, and would mean I could ride all week, not just on the weekend.

The complaint about cost is I think a moot point, as there is no doubt that once battery tech gets better, and these bikes begin to be mass produced, the prices will come down. If you build a boutique anything, with a small model run and experimental parts, prices are going to be high to recoup R&D costs. Mass production will be the biggest driving force behind bringing the cost of these bikes down.

For me, ride time and weight are the biggest concerns. There are exciting developments happening right now with battery tech, so as long as they can get the power to weight ratio down to in line with petrol engine models, then I don't see anything stopping them taking over in the long run. Motocross has an interesting future.
SwapperMX wrote:
Very true about the design of all the current electric bikes. They all seem to have a Chinese look to them. Especially that Alta. Not sure...
Very true about the design of all the current electric bikes. They all seem to have a Chinese look to them. Especially that Alta. Not sure if any of their components are made there, but it sure looks like they are.

I'll wait until KTM have a competitive electric bike. Once they release one, you know they'll be good !!!
ginger969 wrote:
The Alta has all top notch parts, ohlin suspension, renthal bars, excel wheels, brembo brakes and all high quality made in America product parts...not if you've...
The Alta has all top notch parts, ohlin suspension, renthal bars, excel wheels, brembo brakes and all high quality made in America product parts...not if you've read up on them yet but they seem like great builds! The KTM free ride E is a really cool bike but not available in the U.S. and is more like a pumped super mini play bike which is rad, but not focused on being 250f competitive like the Alta's mission statement says...pretty cool either way
The Alta is one of the better electric bike designs I've seen, most are impossibly hideous, but I still think it leaves a lot to be desired when compared to most of the petrol bikes out there. I'm not arguing it has top notch parts, but purely from a looks perspective... it's bad.
RangerLee
Posts
932
Joined
7/23/2013
Location
Spring City, PA US
6/22/2015 4:21am
PFO186 wrote:
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No...
I think the fact that you could have a rear break lever on your handlebars and no shifting makes it possible to go faster easier. No moving your feet around, just feet on the pegs and you can totally focus on breaking points and your turns. If they match performance and price to gas bikes i think electric bikes will take off like wildfire.
ginger969 wrote:
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety...
I def understand the "advantage" of a lever rear brake but honestly I think this will affect the adoption negatively for these bikes simply for safety precautions and most people that have enough disposable income to afford one most likely will also still own and ride a gas Moto bike too which will make the switch back and forth extremely frustrating and possibly dangerous...I ride Mtb and such and that setup was engrained since I was a child but on an MX bike it is second nature to use the rear brake pedal in the air and the front brake lever in the corners and I think this would take sooo much longer to "feel" comfortable on so I think this is a bad move esp for the MX market. Agree or naw?
CoccoBill wrote:
As far as I know Alta was thinking of keeping the rear brake pedal and offering the handlebar lever as an option, don't remember where I...
As far as I know Alta was thinking of keeping the rear brake pedal and offering the handlebar lever as an option, don't remember where I read this, but the handlebar lever was a major complain by riders.
I would definitely go with the handlebar lever option, but i can understand that going back and forth from a gas bike to an electric one would be frustrating...
Anyone that has ridden a mountain bike would know it is not hard to get handlebar braking in your head.
ginger969
Posts
935
Joined
2/17/2011
Location
Boise, ID US
6/22/2015 9:46am
the KTM Freeride E's are DEF sick bikes tho! Look super fun!

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