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Edited Date/Time
4/13/2015 8:51am
So I see Oldenberg got his 250f into the 450 main...thats awesome congrats! I believe somebody else was doing this or attempting to do it as well which is amazing in of itself.
It brought an interesting thought to mind though, we constantly hear guys complaining that they cant build a 250f that can compete with teh factory 250f's correct? Its the crux of every privateer in the class...which makes me wonder, if they cannot get one fast enough to compete with the factory guys then how in the heck are they able to put them in the 450 main and race against those guys?? Seems a 450 even stock has a much bigger advantage in the engine than a built 250f right? Look, I understand the obvious reasons but one has to find it a little silly to hear a rider say their 250f cant compete in its OWN class but can make a 450 main right?
I'd just like to hear peoples thoughts on this because it perplexes me....
It brought an interesting thought to mind though, we constantly hear guys complaining that they cant build a 250f that can compete with teh factory 250f's correct? Its the crux of every privateer in the class...which makes me wonder, if they cannot get one fast enough to compete with the factory guys then how in the heck are they able to put them in the 450 main and race against those guys?? Seems a 450 even stock has a much bigger advantage in the engine than a built 250f right? Look, I understand the obvious reasons but one has to find it a little silly to hear a rider say their 250f cant compete in its OWN class but can make a 450 main right?
I'd just like to hear peoples thoughts on this because it perplexes me....
There will probably be a rule to stop this from happening.
The dirty little secret is smaller bikes have been able to run with bigger ones (at some tracks) since the days of Marty Smith.
The whole idea of different engine classes is to sell more bikes. When 85cc bikes launch past me over the triples I am fully convinced that it is more rider than bike in most cases.
Thank you Mitchell for ruining everyones excuse we already believed to be false.
Just stating some facts ma'am...
I can only see this being the case in Supercross. I have a hard time believing that a 250f could hang with the 450s on a Nationals track (unless it's being piloted by Herlings).
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Or a 125 outrun a 500.
No way!
Oops.
Johnny O obviously didn't get the memo -
It's 90% bike and 10% rider, right?
Or something like that.
I myself think it was pretty cool , and hope more guys try this. I sure hope AMA / Feld don't try and change the rules to prevent this.
Each size bike has it's own pluses and minuses that make them superior on certain parts of or types of tracks. That's the whole idea behind displacement classes - to level the playing field (wait, did I just step in a big steaming pile of 2T vs 4T?).
The idea is to determine the better rider, not the most effective tool for getting around the track quickest. Leave that for the "Open" class.
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Not like Webb , Malcolm and company were bumping up to the 450 class.
Won't mess up scoring and would bring some welcome attention those that are.
Please provide lap times and deltas from 250 vs. 450 outdoor times last year if you want to prove that they are comparable in today's racing.
The last couple of years the 250 motos run after the 450s often on a rougher track and have fewer allowable suspension mods. This may be part of the reason they're switching the race order back this year so the 250's race first; gives the 450 class a plausible excuse why the 250 class ran faster.
Just because it was 30 years ago makes it irrelevant? Maybe because the laws of nature have changed since then? Would you bet against Bubba when he was on a 125 if he lined up on one against the 250 2T class?
I'll let you assemble your spreadsheet and database and perform your statistical analysis if you're curious about that topic since that wasn't my assertion.
I wasn't trying to "prove that they are comparable in today's racing".
The point I was trying to make is that a smaller bike isn't at a disadvantage just because it's smaller - it's a combination of track type, rider, etc.
The post I was replying to contained "...I have a hard time believing that a 250f could hang with the 450s on a Nationals track...", which, in general is a smaller bike vs a larger bike. That's what I was commenting on.
That video is proof that a top level rider on a 125 beat a top level rider on a 500 on a hilly, natural terrain outdoor track. 30 years ago or 130 years ago - it doesn't matter. They were both 2T engines using the same level of technology available at that time. Apples to apples.
And FWIW, a 500 has 4 times the displacement of a 125, whereas a 450 only has 1.8 times that of a 250 (yes, I did the math for you). So the difference, and result, is even more remarkable if you believe a smaller bike is a handicap.
Obviously, on that day it wasn't.
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Post a reply to: 250f's in the 450 mains - im confused