At Some Point, This Has To Stop.

GATOR
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GATOR 3/22/2015 8:26am
3/22/2015 8:26am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 8:26am
Canard's retirement will automatically result in a 50% reduction of nasty crashes.
Whistling
Redrcr34
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Redrcr34 3/22/2015 8:31am
3/22/2015 8:31am
I've been following this sport for over 35 Years and think this may be the deepest field that I have seen talent wise. I don't recall seeing many red flag situations over the years but there have been at least three or four in the last few weeks. That should tell you that these tracks need to be toned down a bit. These are the best riders in the world and it's a crap shoot whether or not they will leave on a stretcher.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/22/2015 8:32am
3/22/2015 8:32am
They aren't being forced to race,they could go get a job somewhere.

And,

There will never be a union,never.

Bikes will be made a little faster next year.

Bones will mend.

All this will be forgotten by Wednesday,maybe Tuesday.

Sorry,but nothing matters anymore no matter how much one cares.
Zracer
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Zracer 3/22/2015 8:34am
3/22/2015 8:34am
Man your a downer, Completely right,but a downer nevertheless.

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A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 8:36am
3/22/2015 8:36am
A. DLeary wrote:
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back...
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back from a horrible leg break, a few guys blow out knees and heard a guy from the Rockets is out with a collapsed lung. Point is, injuries are not exclusive to this sport and it seems to me that other sports have just as many big injuries if not more than SX/MX.

When people are pushing themselves and their equipment as hard as top level athletes do, injuries are going to occur. It's a crummy side of the sports world, but it is a major side of it.


I think it's time for some of you to move on from SX and MX. It's clesr you don't like it anymore.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that...
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that people would like to reduce. And to your last comment, if we didn't like it, we wouldn't care about those problems. It's kind of like what I was told numerous times by my dad: "don't worry if your coach yells at you, worry if he stops yelling at you."
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those.

I find it fascinating that when JS7 torpedoed himself into the ground and landed on people over, and over, and over and over people told him he was out of control, needed to slow down and make better decisions.

Trey Canard has torpedoed himself into the ground over and over and over and people don't say he is out of control, needs to slow down, or make better decisions. They blame the track, the bikes, the other racers, but never Trey.

The kids on the ground more than JS7, and it's not due to bad luck.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 3/22/2015 8:36am
3/22/2015 8:36am
hillbilly wrote:
They aren't being forced to race,they could go get a job somewhere. And, There will never be a union,never. Bikes will be made a little faster...
They aren't being forced to race,they could go get a job somewhere.

And,

There will never be a union,never.

Bikes will be made a little faster next year.

Bones will mend.

All this will be forgotten by Wednesday,maybe Tuesday.

Sorry,but nothing matters anymore no matter how much one cares.
That is very true
disbanded
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disbanded 3/22/2015 8:36am
3/22/2015 8:36am
I have always thought that the first lane after a start straight should be very well thought out and also fairly easy so that the riders can get properly spaced out and the real race can begin.

Just like a set of triples should never be on the first lane after the start because it separates the rides too much too early.

You also can't make it too difficult or tight because that creates unneeded danger and guys can get too bunched up and all over each other.

You can't solve everything, but intelligent track design could help so so so much.

PRM31
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PRM31 3/22/2015 8:36am
3/22/2015 8:36am
Having watched the evolution of the sport from the 70s, I don't think it is any one item that is resulting in greater injuries. The tracks clearly have more make-it or break-it sections; the bikes are bigger and heavier; compared to a 2t, I think the four-strokes are easier when everything is right but there is a lot more inertia that pitches the bike when you mess up over jumps; the riders simply choose to not wear much protection, and so on. I would like to see the 250s as the top class and the 125 2t as the support class. The racing would still be great and it would help the amateur ranks tremendously. I raced everything from 80s to 500 two strokes, the faster bikes were not more fun to ride on a weekend with friends or racing. I would really prefer to see two strokes across the board. Not because I think they are better to ride, but because they are cheaper to buy, fix and upgrade and that would trickle down to the number of people willing to join and remain in the sport. That's a different issue than injuries though. I think the tracks could be slowed down with the addition of an extra turn or two, and/or more technical sections. Something like a longer sand section with some terrain in lieu of one of the faster jump sections. A section with a series of tight 180s could slow it down AND create passing opportunities.
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hvaughn88 3/22/2015 8:37am
3/22/2015 8:37am
A. DLeary wrote:
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back...
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back from a horrible leg break, a few guys blow out knees and heard a guy from the Rockets is out with a collapsed lung. Point is, injuries are not exclusive to this sport and it seems to me that other sports have just as many big injuries if not more than SX/MX.

When people are pushing themselves and their equipment as hard as top level athletes do, injuries are going to occur. It's a crummy side of the sports world, but it is a major side of it.


I think it's time for some of you to move on from SX and MX. It's clesr you don't like it anymore.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that...
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that people would like to reduce. And to your last comment, if we didn't like it, we wouldn't care about those problems. It's kind of like what I was told numerous times by my dad: "don't worry if your coach yells at you, worry if he stops yelling at you."
A. DLeary wrote:
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those. I find it fascinating that when JS7...
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those.

I find it fascinating that when JS7 torpedoed himself into the ground and landed on people over, and over, and over and over people told him he was out of control, needed to slow down and make better decisions.

Trey Canard has torpedoed himself into the ground over and over and over and people don't say he is out of control, needs to slow down, or make better decisions. They blame the track, the bikes, the other racers, but never Trey.

The kids on the ground more than JS7, and it's not due to bad luck.
And you said that to me why???
ReggieWarrenJr 3/22/2015 8:38am
3/22/2015 8:38am
The dirt looked terrible. Reminded me of a west coast round. They know the dirt sucks in certain areas, they should plan accordingly and mellow the tracks out at certain rounds.

With that said, 4 strokes are somewhat dangerous with how heavy they are and the amount of power they produce. But that is not FELD's fault.. they don't control the manufactures or politicians that made the push away from 2 strokes.

I'm also not sure tough blocks are completely necessary in all parts of the track. They help tremendously in some places, but they do seem to constrict the track width and sometimes that does more harm than good. Seems more like a sponsorship platform than a safety net these days.
wfo4ever
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wfo4ever 3/22/2015 8:40am
3/22/2015 8:40am
Supercross is a tough demanding sport as we all know, because we are true fans. But the promoters have slowly turned it into a "Circus Show" of death defying daredevils. It is all about the money to the promoters at the riders expense for injury. Most fans that don't even ride go to the race or watch on TV hoping to see big crashes and carnage. All the commercial's for Supercross mainly just show all the big crashes from previous races, this is how they promote the races. Jumps are designed to where if you come up short you are screwed, and there is no room for error. Run off is minimal on the tracks, just slick plywood and a stadium wall to run into. These are the best riders in the world and they crash and get hurt all the time now. But they are professional athletes, pro riders are getting paid the big bucks and know the risk vs reward, it is their job. But the real problem is the riders at local tracks try to do jumps like the pro riders do on TV and get hurt or worse. Most of these riders also do not wear chest protectors and other protection because the pros do not wear them, it is not cool. The bikes are so powerful these days anyone can clear most any jump on a track but if things go wrong the rider can go from hero to zero in a hurry. Kids get off 85's and then move up to a 250F instead of a 125 WTF? That makes no sense at all. I love supercross and motocross, I just think something needs to change because riders (adults & kids) are getting severely hurt or killed quite often these days in amateur racing. I hope Trey and Jake are OK and get well soon. Just my thoughts...
Premix
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Premix 3/22/2015 8:40am
3/22/2015 8:40am
hillbilly wrote:
They aren't being forced to race,they could go get a job somewhere. And, There will never be a union,never. Bikes will be made a little faster...
They aren't being forced to race,they could go get a job somewhere.

And,

There will never be a union,never.

Bikes will be made a little faster next year.

Bones will mend.

All this will be forgotten by Wednesday,maybe Tuesday.

Sorry,but nothing matters anymore no matter how much one cares.
Yep. We all know what could happen when we swing our leg over our bike. Accidents happen. We've all had our shares of summers in casts itching the hell out of them with a spoon. Could it happen when I'm riding my mountain bike, yes. Could it happen when I'm driving my truck, you bet.
A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 8:41am
3/22/2015 8:41am
Redrcr34 wrote:
I've been following this sport for over 35 Years and think this may be the deepest field that I have seen talent wise. I don't recall...
I've been following this sport for over 35 Years and think this may be the deepest field that I have seen talent wise. I don't recall seeing many red flag situations over the years but there have been at least three or four in the last few weeks. That should tell you that these tracks need to be toned down a bit. These are the best riders in the world and it's a crap shoot whether or not they will leave on a stretcher.
It tells me they're more willing to use the red flag. When I grew up racing, if someone was knocked out, we went around them at race speeds, but they never threw a red flag unless someone was on the brink of death.

They are more liberal with red flags now for safety reasons. The exact safety reasons ignored when things were "safer" in the 80's/90's....
ChrisB10
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ChrisB10 3/22/2015 8:41am
3/22/2015 8:41am












A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 8:42am
3/22/2015 8:42am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that...
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that people would like to reduce. And to your last comment, if we didn't like it, we wouldn't care about those problems. It's kind of like what I was told numerous times by my dad: "don't worry if your coach yells at you, worry if he stops yelling at you."
A. DLeary wrote:
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those. I find it fascinating that when JS7...
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those.

I find it fascinating that when JS7 torpedoed himself into the ground and landed on people over, and over, and over and over people told him he was out of control, needed to slow down and make better decisions.

Trey Canard has torpedoed himself into the ground over and over and over and people don't say he is out of control, needs to slow down, or make better decisions. They blame the track, the bikes, the other racers, but never Trey.

The kids on the ground more than JS7, and it's not due to bad luck.
hvaughn88 wrote:
And you said that to me why???
Because this is how discussions work.
Gbizzle
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Gbizzle 3/22/2015 8:43am
3/22/2015 8:43am
IMO, Feld does not want to discourage crashing. Their supercross intro and highlight packages are full of crash after crash; heck even the piece on Ryan Dungey last evening had to show Villopoto's 2010 crash.
Zracer
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Zracer 3/22/2015 8:44am
3/22/2015 8:44am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 8:48am
A. DLeary wrote:
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back...
What sport do you guys watch where people don't get major injuries? I turned basketball on a few nights ago to see Paul George coming back from a horrible leg break, a few guys blow out knees and heard a guy from the Rockets is out with a collapsed lung. Point is, injuries are not exclusive to this sport and it seems to me that other sports have just as many big injuries if not more than SX/MX.

When people are pushing themselves and their equipment as hard as top level athletes do, injuries are going to occur. It's a crummy side of the sports world, but it is a major side of it.


I think it's time for some of you to move on from SX and MX. It's clesr you don't like it anymore.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that...
I'm pretty sure its not the broken legs and blown out knees people are concerned with. It's the broken backs, head trauma, paralysis and death that people would like to reduce. And to your last comment, if we didn't like it, we wouldn't care about those problems. It's kind of like what I was told numerous times by my dad: "don't worry if your coach yells at you, worry if he stops yelling at you."
A. DLeary wrote:
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those. I find it fascinating that when JS7...
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those.

I find it fascinating that when JS7 torpedoed himself into the ground and landed on people over, and over, and over and over people told him he was out of control, needed to slow down and make better decisions.

Trey Canard has torpedoed himself into the ground over and over and over and people don't say he is out of control, needs to slow down, or make better decisions. They blame the track, the bikes, the other racers, but never Trey.

The kids on the ground more than JS7, and it's not due to bad luck.
No way is he on the ground more than JS7. The difference is damn near every time Trey hits the ground he breaks something. JS7 has the tuck and roll down. Nice to see JS7 stand up and say something that he thinks is a design issue. I think that needs to be done more by more racers.
Premix
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Premix 3/22/2015 8:44am
3/22/2015 8:44am
wfo4ever wrote:
Supercross is a tough demanding sport as we all know, because we are true fans. But the promoters have slowly turned it into a "Circus Show"...
Supercross is a tough demanding sport as we all know, because we are true fans. But the promoters have slowly turned it into a "Circus Show" of death defying daredevils. It is all about the money to the promoters at the riders expense for injury. Most fans that don't even ride go to the race or watch on TV hoping to see big crashes and carnage. All the commercial's for Supercross mainly just show all the big crashes from previous races, this is how they promote the races. Jumps are designed to where if you come up short you are screwed, and there is no room for error. Run off is minimal on the tracks, just slick plywood and a stadium wall to run into. These are the best riders in the world and they crash and get hurt all the time now. But they are professional athletes, pro riders are getting paid the big bucks and know the risk vs reward, it is their job. But the real problem is the riders at local tracks try to do jumps like the pro riders do on TV and get hurt or worse. Most of these riders also do not wear chest protectors and other protection because the pros do not wear them, it is not cool. The bikes are so powerful these days anyone can clear most any jump on a track but if things go wrong the rider can go from hero to zero in a hurry. Kids get off 85's and then move up to a 250F instead of a 125 WTF? That makes no sense at all. I love supercross and motocross, I just think something needs to change because riders (adults & kids) are getting severely hurt or killed quite often these days in amateur racing. I hope Trey and Jake are OK and get well soon. Just my thoughts...
Because half of the people that go to a NASCAR race have ever driven a race car.... I quit reading after that.

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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 3/22/2015 8:45am
3/22/2015 8:45am
A. DLeary wrote:
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those. I find it fascinating that when JS7...
We now do concussion testing and protocols for athletes in this sport and continue each year to improve those.

I find it fascinating that when JS7 torpedoed himself into the ground and landed on people over, and over, and over and over people told him he was out of control, needed to slow down and make better decisions.

Trey Canard has torpedoed himself into the ground over and over and over and people don't say he is out of control, needs to slow down, or make better decisions. They blame the track, the bikes, the other racers, but never Trey.

The kids on the ground more than JS7, and it's not due to bad luck.
hvaughn88 wrote:
And you said that to me why???
A. DLeary wrote:
Because this is how discussions work.
Actually it's not. Nowhere did I argue about trey and James
mxdude105
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mxdude105 3/22/2015 8:51am
3/22/2015 8:51am
One thing I've noticed the past few years is an attempt to increase the difficulty level through bigger, sketchier jump combos and the higher speeds necessary to do them. I think this, plus the power and capabilities of modern bikes, is the core of this problem both at the amateur and professional level. I'd like to see tracks be more technical and difficult without massive quads and crazy 2-3-4-4-2 jump combos where a mistake doesn't equal a lowside and loss of position, but a stretcher and an ambo ride. I know this is easier said than done in Supercross with space/dirt restrictions but it is possible.

The big jumps at outdoor tracks are even more ridiculous when you consider how the landscape can be used to create very technical sections without having riders huck hundred-footers (off cambers, hills, switchbacks, etc.). For this reason I dislike tracks like Utah and Elsinore.

Bummed about the Canard/Weimer crash last night. Two good dudes who've had their share of bad luck and don't need any more. I'm not gonna criticize either of them for what was just a racing incident. The only comment I will make is about that nasty tire burn Weimer got across his back. He suffered almost the exact same injury last summer at High Point I believe. Still not wearing a chest/back protector. Come on dude. Dress for the crash, not the ride.
A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 8:52am
3/22/2015 8:52am
hvaughn88 wrote:
And you said that to me why???
A. DLeary wrote:
Because this is how discussions work.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Actually it's not. Nowhere did I argue about trey and James
I never said you did. I expanded on the discussion.
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hvaughn88 3/22/2015 8:54am
3/22/2015 8:54am
A. DLeary wrote:
Because this is how discussions work.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Actually it's not. Nowhere did I argue about trey and James
A. DLeary wrote:
I never said you did. I expanded on the discussion.
Oh, ok. Well in that case. I love lamp.
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erikcrvjl 3/22/2015 8:57am
3/22/2015 8:57am
The tracks aren't hurting the riders, the riders are hurting themselves. You can point the finger all you want but in the end, there are going to be guys who push the limits in order to gain an edge on their competition. The end result is crashes, no matter what the track design is like.

I do think James has a point with the back to back rhythm sections off the start though, but at the same time, what are the track designers supposed to do with the first two sections of the track every race? No matter what they put, it's either going to be too dangerous or it won't separate the riders at all, which puts us back to square one as the proceed through the rest of the track. Just my opinion.
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HenryA 3/22/2015 9:00am
3/22/2015 9:00am
Mxdude105, you are on to something there. Back when James was the only one to jump a quad it was impressive but nowdays it's just another jump. Seems like the only thing that seriously slows down the riders nowdays are the sand sections. It's weird to witness but a lot of people are struggling HARD in the sand section, but busting out a quad is no problem.
early
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early 3/22/2015 9:08am
3/22/2015 9:08am
ChrisB10 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84689/s1200_IMG_20150322_113710.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84690/s1200_IMG_20150322_113747.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84691/s1200_IMG_20150322_113823.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84692/s1200_IMG_20150322_113855.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84693/s1200_IMG_20150322_113916.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/22/84694/s1200_IMG_20150322_113941.jpg[/img]












I described the track in an earlier post and after reading James' tweet i think the track would have been better if the start did lead into the rhythms that were on the opposite side of the track, they were less technical. However, only the Canard Weimer crash was due to riders being too close off the start.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 3/22/2015 9:08am
3/22/2015 9:08am
The tracks have evolved to a point where they provide as much carnage as good racing.

I'm also waiting for anyone, at any level, to defend the "Supermini to 250F is a good thing" position.

Give me 2 stroke 125's and a 300F premier class, and fix the friggin' tracks. End of story.
A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 9:14am
3/22/2015 9:14am
Tbteam wrote:
The tracks have evolved to a point where they provide as much carnage as good racing. I'm also waiting for anyone, at any level, to defend...
The tracks have evolved to a point where they provide as much carnage as good racing.

I'm also waiting for anyone, at any level, to defend the "Supermini to 250F is a good thing" position.

Give me 2 stroke 125's and a 300F premier class, and fix the friggin' tracks. End of story.
Nobody is preventing a family from making their kid go from superminis to a 125 to whatever else they want. I have not been to a race series or track in a long time that does not have a two-stroke only class and most of them also have a 125 class

This is a parenting problem, not the sports.
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seth505 3/22/2015 9:19am
3/22/2015 9:19am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2015 9:23am
That sucks for Trey and Jake but that kind of scenario can and does happen in pro supercross, really not worth analyzing with a magnifying glass. BUT, agreed on the layout issue, long section like that near start, not good.
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hillbilly 3/22/2015 9:20am
3/22/2015 9:20am
Instead of a riders union why not have the managers from these multimillion teams get together and decide what is to dangerous .

Didn't Roger just get the tv show /moto order changed.

Feld needs the big teams to be there. If a manager sees his bosses risk to be to high by the rider having to take unnecessary risks why not he 4 or 5 managers team up on feld and threaten to pull out for a race .

Not sure that sentence is understandable but its the best i could do.
A. DLeary
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A. DLeary 3/22/2015 9:29am
3/22/2015 9:29am
hillbilly wrote:
Instead of a riders union why not have the managers from these multimillion teams get together and decide what is to dangerous . Didn't Roger just...
Instead of a riders union why not have the managers from these multimillion teams get together and decide what is to dangerous .

Didn't Roger just get the tv show /moto order changed.

Feld needs the big teams to be there. If a manager sees his bosses risk to be to high by the rider having to take unnecessary risks why not he 4 or 5 managers team up on feld and threaten to pull out for a race .

Not sure that sentence is understandable but its the best i could do.
It is.

The problem is; in today's modern society we no longer say it's the individuals responsibility to make a decision if something carries to much risk. We now say that it's the governments responsibility or FELDS responsibility etc etc to keep us safe. It's a scary change that I don't like.

Post a reply to: At Some Point, This Has To Stop.