Law Suits & Racing...

jstein639
Posts
237
Joined
10/2/2011
Location
Victorville, CA, USA
3/10/2015 4:00pm
jstein639 wrote:
There are things in the legal system that can make the plaintiff pay the defendants legal fees.
Team Ideal wrote:
we were going to do that when we were sued for basically nothing, when it was obvious to the lawyers that they had nothing on us...
we were going to do that when we were sued for basically nothing, when it was obvious to the lawyers that they had nothing on us I told our lawyer we wanted them to pay all cost if they kept pushing, guess what I was told...you guessed it, we'd have to sue them to make them pay.

our system is really fucked up, I could sue you tomorrow for a story I made up and it would cost us each thousands and there would be nothing you could do about it unless you sued me back. pretty fucked up.

IMO this is nothing more than a money grab by some party, it will all settle out of court because it will be cheaper than paying attorney fees.
I'm a paralegal by trade so I wouldn't have to pay any attorney's fees Cool
3/10/2015 4:07pm
newmann wrote:
What I find amusing here on Vital(not necessarily this thread) is how quick people are to jump up and scream "track suing scum" yet many of...
What I find amusing here on Vital(not necessarily this thread) is how quick people are to jump up and scream "track suing scum" yet many of the same people wouldn't hesitate to say "lawyer up" at the drop of a hat if someone's car got run into. Also I've seen plenty of people here speak of committing insurance fraud like it is no big deal yet speak of the insurance companies as if they are the devil. Fickle bunch....

That was a sad day for the sport and an equally sad one when lawsuits were filed. Good way to drag Josh's name through the dirt.

Oh, and many insurance companies do suck. Newmann out.
You gotta stop bringing logic to threads and stop calling people out for being hypocrites.

That said, keep it up. No one else has the balls.
3/10/2015 4:17pm
newmann wrote:
What I find amusing here on Vital(not necessarily this thread) is how quick people are to jump up and scream "track suing scum" yet many of...
What I find amusing here on Vital(not necessarily this thread) is how quick people are to jump up and scream "track suing scum" yet many of the same people wouldn't hesitate to say "lawyer up" at the drop of a hat if someone's car got run into. Also I've seen plenty of people here speak of committing insurance fraud like it is no big deal yet speak of the insurance companies as if they are the devil. Fickle bunch....

That was a sad day for the sport and an equally sad one when lawsuits were filed. Good way to drag Josh's name through the dirt.

Oh, and many insurance companies do suck. Newmann out.
mx836 wrote:
People commit "insurance fraud" because insurance companies are the devil. Doesn't matter how you're injured, they need to pay up. Also, it's to protect the tracks...
People commit "insurance fraud" because insurance companies are the devil. Doesn't matter how you're injured, they need to pay up. Also, it's to protect the tracks and sport we love. I'm sure nobody is happy about telling a little fib, but are doing it for good reasons.
Sunhouse wrote:
So everyone else needs to pay higher insurance premiums because some people won´t pay up to have the risks they put themselves through on the weekend...
So everyone else needs to pay higher insurance premiums because some people won´t pay up to have the risks they put themselves through on the weekend insured properly - subsequently committing crime to get money they are not entitled to. How about people either accept the risks involved, study the selected insurance policy, or face the fact that maybe an injury riding motocross is too expensive for them.

You can always give the insurance business a go, and try out the "always pay up" hypothesis. Add on a mild estimate of 10% increase in fraud towards your company as the risk of getting caught is zero, as you will always pay up. Good luck
Sunhouse has it right. People including myself don't read the documents they are signing when entering a track or an insurance contract for that matter. Well Said Sunhouse!
Walter
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375
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Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
3/10/2015 5:17pm
Let me chime in with some random thoughts. Full disclosure: I am a lawyer. Years ago I handled civil litigation, but for the last several decades it has been only criminal defense work. I have represented riders, tracks, sanctioning bodies, and companies in both liability matters and contractual issues.

FTE has far more civil experience than I.

The right to sue is important. Those of you who have said it can help right wrongs are spot on. That said, it (like any right) can be abused. There are greedy people out there, there are folks who do not take responsibility for their own actions, but there are good and decent folks that suffer injury at the hands of negligent people and companies and they should be made whole.

Insurance companies can bring suit when they pay out money to a policy holder under the subrogation part of the policy. They essentially stand in the shoes of the injured person and bring suit to recover what they paid out.

One of the posts correctly pointed out the litigation is so expensive these days that winning can indeed bankrupt you. If you have insurance, the policy provides a defense for you at the expense of the insurance company (although the amount paid can reduce the available amount of insurance under the terms of some policies). That is one of the big plusses in favor of having liability insurance.

The Shop

BobPA
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8339
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Location
USA
3/10/2015 5:28pm
Berm wrote:
You make it sound like they got the money already. Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked. Anytime someone...
You make it sound like they got the money already.

Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked.

Anytime someone sues someone else (or some entity), they are suing someone who provided them a service (or disservice), so your argument that they provide the track doesn't make much sense. That is literally in the requirement of a suit, that a service (or disservice) took place.

Yes it is motorcycle racing, and it is dangerous, but that doesn't mean the entities in charge have no responsibility to reduce that danger. If their suit can prove other parties were acting irresponsibly, then they should be held accountable. It doesn't matter that you don't think they can prove it, they have every right to tell their story. And in the end, if they can't show their suit has merit, they won't get a dime.
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
Motoxdoc
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2712
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Location
Steamboat Springs, CO, USA
3/10/2015 5:30pm
Yeah I heard a story back in the day where a guy got bit by a dog while at a race and he sued the promoter!Huh
hillbilly
Posts
9079
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Location
Afton, TN, USA
3/10/2015 5:33pm
500guy wrote:
How stupid does suing the AMA or FIM to get 12 points that were never earned back sound now ? People saying other moto people don't...
How stupid does suing the AMA or FIM to get 12 points that were never earned back sound now ?

People saying other moto people don't sue ? one of the top riders in the Sport throws it out there every time something happens.
Thanks.
jstein639
Posts
237
Joined
10/2/2011
Location
Victorville, CA, USA
3/10/2015 5:47pm
Berm wrote:
You make it sound like they got the money already. Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked. Anytime someone...
You make it sound like they got the money already.

Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked.

Anytime someone sues someone else (or some entity), they are suing someone who provided them a service (or disservice), so your argument that they provide the track doesn't make much sense. That is literally in the requirement of a suit, that a service (or disservice) took place.

Yes it is motorcycle racing, and it is dangerous, but that doesn't mean the entities in charge have no responsibility to reduce that danger. If their suit can prove other parties were acting irresponsibly, then they should be held accountable. It doesn't matter that you don't think they can prove it, they have every right to tell their story. And in the end, if they can't show their suit has merit, they won't get a dime.
BobPA wrote:
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house...
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
I hope you don't seriously believe that the situation you mentioned has any relation to what berm said.
TeamGreen
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37743
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
3/10/2015 5:52pm
Berm wrote:
You make it sound like they got the money already. Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked. Anytime someone...
You make it sound like they got the money already.

Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked.

Anytime someone sues someone else (or some entity), they are suing someone who provided them a service (or disservice), so your argument that they provide the track doesn't make much sense. That is literally in the requirement of a suit, that a service (or disservice) took place.

Yes it is motorcycle racing, and it is dangerous, but that doesn't mean the entities in charge have no responsibility to reduce that danger. If their suit can prove other parties were acting irresponsibly, then they should be held accountable. It doesn't matter that you don't think they can prove it, they have every right to tell their story. And in the end, if they can't show their suit has merit, they won't get a dime.
BobPA wrote:
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house...
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
jstein639 wrote:
I hope you don't seriously believe that the situation you mentioned has any relation to what berm said.
I 2nd that.

No need to hate on someone due to your mis-comprehension of thier point.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13361
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Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
3/10/2015 6:41pm
Clients usually get the lawyer they deserve.

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer.

Yadayadayadayada

I'm more sorry for the underlying situation than the lawsuit, but the hard thing is that litigation rarely helps anyone feel better even if they win, unless reinforcing revenge is "better," but that sort of bitterness rarely is satisfied. Business stuff can be different, but personal and emotional things with individuals can be tough, especially when the economic system you're in doesn't have a very good safety net for people who are incapacitated by someone else's inexcusable mistake.

People who are wrongly injured have rights to relief. We have a court system that sorts that out, even if we can pluck out examples that make us scratch our heads. I don't really have the energy to figure out a better system that doesn't come down to someone having to decide if someone hurt someone else and doesn't have an excuse for it. Not that wouldn't require looking at things differently in a way people in the country increasingly are incapable of.
BobPA
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8339
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Location
USA
3/10/2015 7:28pm
Berm wrote:
You make it sound like they got the money already. Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked. Anytime someone...
You make it sound like they got the money already.

Everyone should have the right to sue; without it, many problems could go unchecked.

Anytime someone sues someone else (or some entity), they are suing someone who provided them a service (or disservice), so your argument that they provide the track doesn't make much sense. That is literally in the requirement of a suit, that a service (or disservice) took place.

Yes it is motorcycle racing, and it is dangerous, but that doesn't mean the entities in charge have no responsibility to reduce that danger. If their suit can prove other parties were acting irresponsibly, then they should be held accountable. It doesn't matter that you don't think they can prove it, they have every right to tell their story. And in the end, if they can't show their suit has merit, they won't get a dime.
BobPA wrote:
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house...
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
jstein639 wrote:
I hope you don't seriously believe that the situation you mentioned has any relation to what berm said.
I'll recant my personal insult toward Berm, but I do not agree that every person has a right to tell "their story". Why would the wanna be thief in my example have any right in the world to tell his story?
ky_savage
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2785
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Location
Kentucky, KY, USA
3/10/2015 7:30pm
That's the way it is these days. At least in the U.S. If you can't get someone to give you money, sue them for it. Why do you think all these stupid lawyer commercials are on TV?
TeamGreen
Posts
37743
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
3/10/2015 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 3/10/2015 8:01pm
BobPA wrote:
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house...
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
jstein639 wrote:
I hope you don't seriously believe that the situation you mentioned has any relation to what berm said.
BobPA wrote:
I'll recant my personal insult toward Berm, but I do not agree that every person has a right to tell "their story". Why would the wanna...
I'll recant my personal insult toward Berm, but I do not agree that every person has a right to tell "their story". Why would the wanna be thief in my example have any right in the world to tell his story?
Nice & I get the point you're making...

You have to chalk it up to shit that jus' sucks.
Berm
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658
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4/23/2014
Location
USA
Fantasy
3/10/2015 8:35pm
BobPA wrote:
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house...
If I ever met you I would certainly hate you. You are one of those assholes who would support a thief who broke into someone house, proceeded to injure themselves in said house...and then they would sue the homeowner....Happened to one of my good friends parents.
jstein639 wrote:
I hope you don't seriously believe that the situation you mentioned has any relation to what berm said.
BobPA wrote:
I'll recant my personal insult toward Berm, but I do not agree that every person has a right to tell "their story". Why would the wanna...
I'll recant my personal insult toward Berm, but I do not agree that every person has a right to tell "their story". Why would the wanna be thief in my example have any right in the world to tell his story?
It's illegal to booby-trap a home. Reason being, sometimes, if someone is in dire need, they have every right to use your property/possessions to save their life; one reason (of a few) why it can't be booby-trapped. Quite a few famous cases where the homeowner is sued for doing just that.

This is a case where a thief has a right to tell his story, the homeowner did something illegal to them, and yes, they should be punished by the law for thievery, but they should also receive a fair chance to tell their story. Just because they are a thief, doesn't give you the right to kill them for example (or chop off their nuts), even if you think they deserve it. That isn't your decision to make and it shouldn't be either.

I am curious to what happened to your buddy though, it is EXTREMELY rare for a thief to actually win a suit for something like this unless your buddy went above and beyond some sort of reasonable punishment/detainment.

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