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Personally I have no issue with him other than what I have mentioned in my 1st post coming from and being heavily involved in that side of business as that is what I do. 99.9% of my posts are basically all based around training, PED's etc. Something I know very well and am always open to listening and gaining new knowledge in this particular field so I did not hear what I wanted to hear during this conversation at all.
Please dont take this personally but with him replying to you on the questions you had, who says they were based on scientific evidence and what is your knowledge around this?
If you had to rattle of technical mechanical data to me about a motor and sounded convincing, I would believe you and think you knew your stuff. Just trying to make an example.
maybe guyb can get john t, hughes, brian lopes, steve smith, dungey, barcia, whoever else to chat on how mtb and moto cross over. it should certainly put this baby to rest.
What is involved in his "intense mtb" program? I can see someone overdoing the mtb training. You can overdo any exercise. Not sure if the end result is going to be arm pump or just general fatigue from mtb though.
I can say on an amateur level I thought I was in decent shape before I started mtb years ago. MTB was a real pain fest at first. But once I got into it, the legs and overall endurance were so much stronger for MX. Never had an arm pump issue either ... but I was just a casual amateur MX guy.
So does anyone know if Ryno has tried any DH events?
I wish Woodracer stuck around, that was a fun meltdown.
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It's a shame too. I didn't follow him when he raced in Europe . But Ive heard him on Pulp talking about his GP efforts a few years ago. I was pretty impressed. I suppose I can expect a punch in the face at the next National I go to now.
Years ago he got hurt pretty bad and was supposed to be out of moto for good. I was surprised to see him race again after that. No matter what, since I'm not one of the guys he has punched, I'm glad he has been part of the sport. Too many of the same personalities make mx boring
I know exactly what I am talking about... I couldn't care less if anyone believes me... but I will say... the top riders stay off the intensive MTB programs in 2015... and the ones that have intensive MTB programs are not consistent enough to win a 450 Championship.
Oh, and it would be epic if:
I'm just a practice day track rider who didn't start MXing until he was 34 and didn't begin MTBing until 42 but I too have found the MTB greatly improved every aspect of my MX track performance. It's nice that with my schedule I can only ride MX maybe a dozen times per year but that every time I do I have less fitness issues than most of the other riders I'm around, and I don't seem to lose much if any speed even after long periods off. I haven't had arm pump while MXing at all since MTBing. I feel that MTBing really teaches you to ride with 'heavy feet, light hands' which is so key. But it also keeps you comfortable with going fast over rough varied terrain as you learn to look ahead and just manage the bike with your body's instinct without even looking.
The downside I have found with MTBIng as my sole training exericise is that my range of motion and strength in my legs is much improved in the range of motion used to pedal a bike, but the outer limits of my range of motion seem to get pretty weak. I've learned to counteract that by lots of very deep slow squats both before and after MTBing.
Pit Row
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Interesting-heart-rate-st…
I can tell you want you shouldn't do. Race mountain bike races (MT during the week thinking somehow this is appropriate training for SX. People may argue that HR's are equally high during MTB racing and so that justifies the its use. Well HR's in soccer, basketball as well as other sports also have high HR's with the time spent above 80% MAX HR varying between them. True (college educated) strength and conditioning professionals understand this and that is why you don't see NFL, NHL, MLS, MLB, NBA athletes racing mountain bike races during the week or other non-movement specific exercises.
On the flip side you will have Moto athletes that do spend the majority of their training on the dirt bike but fail miserably in managing HR intensity. I have spoken with riders who make it a point to do a 100 laps 3-4 X per week. Others simply go out and mimic race day scenarios with the occasional sprint laps at the end of the day. I have questioned moto athletes who wear HR monitors what they do with the information stored on the watch. Most look at me with a puzzled look and say "I only look at what my HR is after I finish a moto".
The majority of your cardio training should be done on the bike preferably with one or two other racers. Using a term from soccer you should break up your riding into technical and tactical training days. Moto days and technique days.
Moto days should always be done at race pace and preferably racing with two other riders. Buy a HR rate monitor that can record HR during your motos and learn how to use it. Use this data in conjunction with your laps times to help set up your training parameters.
Your training should give you the confidence to go at 90%HR for a full moto but in reality you want to avoid that. At those intensities you leave yourself little margin for error. Ideally you would like your 70% to be everyone else's 90%.
One last and very IMPORTANT training tip that is grossly misunderstood amongst moto "trainers" and poorly applied is STRENGTH training. When you watch some of the "training" videos from posted by these "experts" you'd think you where training for the circus. Sure they will throw words out there like core and stability but do they really know how these work within the parameters of moto? Racing moto is a delicate balance between being one with the bike and fighting for your life as it bitch slaps you. Strength training for moto should be looked at in two ways 1. resistance of the violent forces that can be placed upon your body. ie. swapping, headshake, casing. 2. limiting cardio vascular strain.
The stronger you are the less energy you will have to exert thus giving you HEART a break.
For example if rider A. can squat 225 pounds 10X while rider B can only do it 1X and if FOR EXAMPLE the forces acting on the body on during the race equate to 185 pounds rider A can ride with less effort and for longer than rider B.
To obtain this type of strength one needs to train using "heavy weights" on a FIRM base with proper form so that the CORRECT muscles are working to perform the exercise.
How HEAVY? My belief is that one should be able to bench at least their bodyweight, pull up their bodyweight, 1/2 squat and deadlift 1 1/2 X bodyweight. I don't have the science yet (it's coming) to substantiate my numbers but if you can't handle your own bodyweight how can you expect to handle your bodyweight plus the increase in force put upon it during a moto?
Are their riders that have won by not training this way? Yes
As we further look into the science of moto will this change the way riders train? Absolutely.
If you care to discuss on a more personal basis please email me at info@ichorsportsmedicine.com
EddieC's post was in response to heart rate training and geared towards the guys who are looking to be competitive professionally. For those of us who get a limited amount of seat time on the dirt bike, I think mountain bike is probably the most comparable and productive form of training possible.
I think this thread was geared towards the guys who are looking to be competitive professionally which it's easy to lose track of that.
Look at Mike Alessi. He probably works out as long or more than many guys out there, yet he's still not a championship contender. The same can be said for most of the guys on the line. Then you have Dungey, Canard and Roczen who probably train the same amount of time as Alessi, but they have a much more efficient and SX/MX relevant regimen.
I think the argument isn't whether MTB is good for training or not, but there are more efficient ways to train.
As Mr. Wrecks states, a solid base is a prerequisite for training at the highest level. MTB and road biking help build & solidify that base, while track time achieves top conditioning and honing skills. Too much time/intensity on a bicycle can be detrimental, as not every element of cycling translates directly into enhanced MX capabilities. It's similar to weight training: specific routines & exercises can deliver tremendous benefits, but a heavy weight schedule can also work against the rider/racer.
Post a reply to: Is Ryan Hughes training anyone this year?