future engine technology ( the crystal ball thread)

gsxr6
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gsxr6
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2015 7:45am
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.
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zehn
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zehn 1/20/2015 4:51pm
1/20/2015 4:51pm
In the short run, I see more manufacturers adopting Yamaha's more direct airflow design.
KlootZak
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KlootZak 1/20/2015 4:53pm
1/20/2015 4:53pm
Turbo Evil

Hybrid Evil Evil
motor bike rider 1/20/2015 4:57pm
1/20/2015 4:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2015 5:06pm
gsxr6 wrote:
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems...
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.
Yea, not really necessary since bikes are already way too fast for 90% of the people who ride them. In fact they probably need to be slower

Also, pneumatic valves still have a cam/cam chain, its just a pneumatic spring instead of a metal spring. I think youre referring to magnetic valve actuators, and those arent good because they weigh a ton and take a lot of electricity to run.

I really dont see any of this wild technology being put on bikes because they still get sold to the common man, and the common man doesnt want to spend 20k for a dirtbike.

Either way, it goes back to my original point, bikes are already too fast. Very few people can ride them to the limit as they sit right now.
wow123
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wow123 1/20/2015 5:07pm
1/20/2015 5:07pm
gsxr6 wrote:
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems...
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.
motor bike rider wrote:
Yea, not really necessary since bikes are already way too fast for 90% of the people who ride them. In fact they probably need to be...
Yea, not really necessary since bikes are already way too fast for 90% of the people who ride them. In fact they probably need to be slower

Also, pneumatic valves still have a cam/cam chain, its just a pneumatic spring instead of a metal spring. I think youre referring to magnetic valve actuators, and those arent good because they weigh a ton and take a lot of electricity to run.

I really dont see any of this wild technology being put on bikes because they still get sold to the common man, and the common man doesnt want to spend 20k for a dirtbike.

Either way, it goes back to my original point, bikes are already too fast. Very few people can ride them to the limit as they sit right now.
it strange that they havent pushed for lower cc rules

considering a new 450 is pretty reliable

so they will have to add some new tech that will break till they "sort" it out

its imco why 500cc 2 st went out, to damm reliable and could last 2 years with nary a ring change

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ando
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ando 1/20/2015 5:09pm
1/20/2015 5:09pm
There won't be much radical development while racing technical rules are based on production machines.
gsxr6
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gsxr6 1/20/2015 5:49pm
1/20/2015 5:49pm


motor bike rider 1/20/2015 6:07pm
1/20/2015 6:07pm
gsxr6 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/01/20/77501/s1200_Screenshot_2015_01_20_17_47_07.jpg[/img]


I mean thats still hypothetical. And its still not something that you would ever want on a dirtbike. The reason for that would be for higher RPMs, but a motocross engine doesnt need to spin at 20k rpm- it would have almost no bottom end power and would be very difficult to ride. Also that system would be amazingly complex for the average rider, and might not handle jumps/crashes very well.

I know im playing devils advocate here but the technology is far too advanced for whats needed on an MX bike.
nascarnate326
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nascarnate326 1/20/2015 6:56pm
1/20/2015 6:56pm
Smaller displacement (think 125cc 4 stroke and 250cc 4 stroke) with very small turbo's. Even a small amount of boost, say 10lbs on a modern bike would really crank the already crazy power up.

I hope we finally get a DI 2 stroke of some kind.

I just wonder how much more edgy they can make the bike
Moto75
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Moto75 1/20/2015 6:57pm
1/20/2015 6:57pm
Not too many cars with a stick shift tranny these days. They have enough power, focus will shift to getting power to the ground.
loftyair
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loftyair 1/20/2015 7:27pm
1/20/2015 7:27pm
Electric will be here very soon...
Bruce372
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Bruce372 1/20/2015 7:42pm
1/20/2015 7:42pm
Going off on a tangent

Magnetic suspension fluids where the damping is controlled electromagnetically and the air pressure springs would adjust on the fly. You ride the bike, and as you do, it feeds the data into an algorithm to optimize the whole system multi parametrically
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Falcon 1/20/2015 7:49pm
1/20/2015 7:49pm
Hybrids, for sure. Porsche and Ferrari have both made their fastest cars with electric motors in addition to gasoline engines. The torque of the electric combines with the power of the gas engine to make a better power curve. I could see that happening somehow.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/20/2015 7:56pm
1/20/2015 7:56pm
2T EFI/DFI for 2017
zehn
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zehn 1/20/2015 7:59pm
1/20/2015 7:59pm
TeamGreen wrote:
2T EFI/DFI for 2017
That's how rumors get started.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 1/20/2015 8:11pm
1/20/2015 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2015 8:12pm
TeamGreen wrote:
2T EFI/DFI for 2017
zehn wrote:
That's how rumors get started.
it's gotta happen at some point.

at some point it will become more economically/logistically feasible to just stop manufacturing carburetors. The motorcycle industry, at least in regard to manufacturing, evolves as a whole. Sharing parts and designs among the many types and sizes of motorcycles is one of many reasons. 2 stroke dirtbikes are the last thing using carbs.

as long as it's batteryless, I'm fine with it.
The Rock
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The Rock 1/21/2015 2:02am
1/21/2015 2:02am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2015 2:02am
gsxr6 wrote:
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems...
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.
KTM hasn't had too difficult of time surpassing the twin spar frame design. Last year at the Thai MXGP race KTM was less affected by others from the fuel and heat issues because their steel frame design allows for a better gas tank location than aluminum twin spar frames do.

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RailinRuts450 1/21/2015 2:03am
1/21/2015 2:03am
I forget if it was MXA or whoever but someone said KTM is releasing all new two strokes within a year or two. Wonder if they're speaking of the DI variety.
ToddWitten83 1/21/2015 2:08am
1/21/2015 2:08am
EFI will have to come in on 2T if they want to still be manufactured... isn't it better for the environment?
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 1/21/2015 2:14am
1/21/2015 2:14am
Good read this:

http://www.altamotors.co/news/torque-acceleration-specific-power-parts-…

"We have a system of changing throttle maps on the fly that adds a whole new dimension to riding and competing. It's not simply recreating the power delivery of the internal combustion engine, the aspects of lugging or revving it, it's the ability to have a bike that's optimally set up for a mud track, a sand track, a perfect tacky track, all in one bike, and all available at any time. Every corner you take, you have the right configuration of tractable power. The RedShift’s response to loss of traction allows the rider to have the confidence to enter corners quicker, hit the big jumps and go around the track faster."
roughneck
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roughneck 1/21/2015 4:35am
1/21/2015 4:35am
steam fired injection...the faster you shovel the coal the faster the water heats up..may be heavy..but quit whinning!! get use to it..ooo and they are a 1-stroke every couple seconds.....bring a sleeping bag..20 laps might take awhile!!
Matt Fisher 1/21/2015 11:08am
1/21/2015 11:08am
Hybrid as a stopgap to pure electric.

Actually I can see track riders going strictly electric, while off-road guys need the hybrid design to keep the batteries charged during long rides.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 1/21/2015 12:09pm
1/21/2015 12:09pm
gsxr6 wrote:
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems...
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.

If there are no camshafts in the engine, then what opens the valves? Magic?

MotoGP bikes are not camless. As far as I know (which is a lot) camless engines only exist in labs and on test tracks.

..but, if you think that camless is that important, there is very good news. There is a type of engine that doesn't use cams, makes more power per square inch (both engine capacity and physical space), and will outlast anything with camshafts in it. It's called a 2-stroke.

OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 1/21/2015 1:02pm
1/21/2015 1:02pm
Well I've heard that deep in the bowels of HONDA they have an engine in development that uses a rather conventional slider crank mechanism but produces power with every rotation of the crankshaft! Pretty compact and efficient design they say.
Homey55
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Homey55 1/21/2015 1:05pm
1/21/2015 1:05pm
On the suspension side, I see bikes being set up with less travel for SX and maybe going to a single crown fork or a lefty fork to save more weight. I think the MTB industry has made some huge advancements in recent history and I see the MX industry latching on to some ideas.



Bruce372
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Bruce372 1/21/2015 1:09pm
1/21/2015 1:09pm
^^^^ Ducati also ran the single side swingarm for a long time!!
enketchum
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enketchum 1/21/2015 1:42pm
1/21/2015 1:42pm
Honda had an auto transmission that was tested for outdoor tracks. Testers said they were good but never made it to mainstream
Travis250F
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Travis250F 1/21/2015 1:44pm
1/21/2015 1:44pm
gsxr6 wrote:
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems...
I see variable timing, direct injection, and charged induction as the future. Why? Because that's what cars have and it all the rage. Chassis development seems to be at a standstill the last 10 or so years . Perhaps the twin spar frame is hard to surpass for racings current formula. I myself feel that pneumatic valves would be better than all of the rest combined. Imagine a four stroke with no cam chain or cam weighing it down, the "camshaft profile" is contained in an ecu ala motogp. It would rev higher and have more low end both at once. I'd bet we get superchargers first but your guess is as good as mine.
motor bike rider wrote:
Yea, not really necessary since bikes are already way too fast for 90% of the people who ride them. In fact they probably need to be...
Yea, not really necessary since bikes are already way too fast for 90% of the people who ride them. In fact they probably need to be slower

Also, pneumatic valves still have a cam/cam chain, its just a pneumatic spring instead of a metal spring. I think youre referring to magnetic valve actuators, and those arent good because they weigh a ton and take a lot of electricity to run.

I really dont see any of this wild technology being put on bikes because they still get sold to the common man, and the common man doesnt want to spend 20k for a dirtbike.

Either way, it goes back to my original point, bikes are already too fast. Very few people can ride them to the limit as they sit right now.
I agree, these company's have been improving the overall speed an torque on these bikes so much the past few years. these bikes haul ass an come dam near race ready with everything they have on them "despite the fact that most of us are really picky on our bike setup". but overall, the stock suspension, brakes an overall carb/engines produce more than enough power for the average 99% of people who purchase them
Krazyk2774
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Krazyk2774 1/21/2015 2:00pm
1/21/2015 2:00pm
10 years from now I think everything will be electric! In R/C there is no comparison , brushless / Lipo blows the doors off nitro in every way!

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