Interesting article on the CRF's

hbdesigns913
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hbdesigns913
Edited Date/Time 10/25/2014 5:47am
http://motocrossactionmag.com/bike-tests/honda-tests/the-man-in-charge-…
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Brad460
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Brad460 10/24/2014 10:52am
10/24/2014 10:52am
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM has caught, and arguably passed the big four, is the comment about ideas taking 3-4 years to reach production- that is too long..In the 80's the Japanese were much quicker to bring new technology to production- not today.
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scooter5002 10/24/2014 10:58am
10/24/2014 10:58am
"We could do everything; nothing is impossible if the customer demands it." Lol
zehn
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zehn 10/24/2014 11:00am
10/24/2014 11:00am
Brad460 wrote:
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM...
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM has caught, and arguably passed the big four, is the comment about ideas taking 3-4 years to reach production- that is too long..In the 80's the Japanese were much quicker to bring new technology to production- not today.
R&D and production budgets were also much higher back then...
Brad460
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Brad460 10/24/2014 11:03am
10/24/2014 11:03am Edited Date/Time 10/24/2014 11:04am
Brad460 wrote:
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM...
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM has caught, and arguably passed the big four, is the comment about ideas taking 3-4 years to reach production- that is too long..In the 80's the Japanese were much quicker to bring new technology to production- not today.
zehn wrote:
R&D and production budgets were also much higher back then...
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why the IRS eventually parked an agent in their offices Laughing

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Titan1
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Titan1 10/24/2014 11:12am
10/24/2014 11:12am
scooter5002 wrote:
"We could do everything; nothing is impossible if the customer demands it." Lol
In that case, I demand a modern Honda 300cc (I'll even take a 250cc) two stroke with an Electric start! (Or a Yamaha 250cc 2 stroke with an electric start...even.)

zehn
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zehn 10/24/2014 11:31am
10/24/2014 11:31am
Brad460 wrote:
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM...
Interesting article- funny how all Japanese engineers are so much alike. Extremely intelligent, conservative, and a tad short on common sense. I think one reason KTM has caught, and arguably passed the big four, is the comment about ideas taking 3-4 years to reach production- that is too long..In the 80's the Japanese were much quicker to bring new technology to production- not today.
zehn wrote:
R&D and production budgets were also much higher back then...
Brad460 wrote:
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why...
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why the IRS eventually parked an agent in their offices Laughing
For sure. Another thing to remember is that we are almost at the pinnacle of bike tech. Sure, there's some things that can always be improved upon, but back in the 80s, the tech was always changing and evolving much faster than today because they had a lot more to improve upon than we do today.
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O___o 10/24/2014 11:48am
10/24/2014 11:48am
Some take-aways from that article.

The head CRF engineer is still extremely sympathetic to the RC valve CR250 (which is the direction i still think MX bikes should have gone)

They deal with KTM by just not acknowledging them, just like Fukushima.


Yoshihiro-san, you don't attract new-comers to your product line by having 2hp less than the Kawasaki. C'mon man! New features and cosmetics sell bikes, sadly.

Zehn, i dont think we are close to the pinnacle. i think we are headed for pneumatic valvetrains, ride-by-wire, traction control from the factory, just to name a few.

The shit will REALLY hit the fan when the first hybrid bike is released. They'll wedge a small eletric motor inside the trans to help the real engine spin the drivetrain, in a performance-gaining manner, similar to the Honda CRZ. they're small, and unobtrusive, and will really be a performance gainer without sacrificing ridability. electric motors produce peak torque 100% of the time.

Every car on the F1 grid is using a similar system. that's the first step of the waterfall, and everything trickles down hill.
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watson 10/24/2014 12:21pm
10/24/2014 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2014 12:24pm
Yeah, I wouldn't say we're at the pinnacle of motocross bike technology- it's just a whole lot more refined than it was in the 80's.

Interesting article, for sure. But in a primarily performance-based market, making a bike that's "easier to ride (i.e. slow)", isn't the best hedgehog concept. People who want a bike that's "easy to ride" will buy a CRF450X, not a motocross 450.
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YZ125H1 10/24/2014 12:35pm
10/24/2014 12:35pm
O___o wrote:
Some take-aways from that article. The head CRF engineer is still extremely sympathetic to the RC valve CR250 (which is the direction i still think MX...
Some take-aways from that article.

The head CRF engineer is still extremely sympathetic to the RC valve CR250 (which is the direction i still think MX bikes should have gone)

They deal with KTM by just not acknowledging them, just like Fukushima.


Yoshihiro-san, you don't attract new-comers to your product line by having 2hp less than the Kawasaki. C'mon man! New features and cosmetics sell bikes, sadly.

Zehn, i dont think we are close to the pinnacle. i think we are headed for pneumatic valvetrains, ride-by-wire, traction control from the factory, just to name a few.

The shit will REALLY hit the fan when the first hybrid bike is released. They'll wedge a small eletric motor inside the trans to help the real engine spin the drivetrain, in a performance-gaining manner, similar to the Honda CRZ. they're small, and unobtrusive, and will really be a performance gainer without sacrificing ridability. electric motors produce peak torque 100% of the time.

Every car on the F1 grid is using a similar system. that's the first step of the waterfall, and everything trickles down hill.
A lot of people bash the engine design and say the RC valve and the case reed made it slow. It produced a decent amount of HP for it's time on the dyno. The way the motor came from the factory it was setup poorly. With some mods it can be turned into a rocket. Kinda of sucks when you have to get motor work done to a stock bike to make it comparable or better than the other bikes out there.

I could see pneumatic valves in the future, just not sure people want to add more weight to the 4 strokes.
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Zracer 10/24/2014 12:38pm
10/24/2014 12:38pm
zehn wrote:
R&D and production budgets were also much higher back then...
Brad460 wrote:
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why...
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why the IRS eventually parked an agent in their offices Laughing
zehn wrote:
For sure. Another thing to remember is that we are almost at the pinnacle of bike tech. Sure, there's some things that can always be improved...
For sure. Another thing to remember is that we are almost at the pinnacle of bike tech. Sure, there's some things that can always be improved upon, but back in the 80s, the tech was always changing and evolving much faster than today because they had a lot more to improve upon than we do today.
Rofl. You think that it in the 80s they didnt think they were at the pinnacle of bike tech? 30 years from now
I hope you re read your comment to see how stupid it was.
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Xeno 10/24/2014 12:46pm
10/24/2014 12:46pm
It was a really good article that MXA bought from a European journalist.
The Japanese engineers don't give interviews like that very often.
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Brad460 10/24/2014 2:31pm
10/24/2014 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2014 2:31pm
Brad460 wrote:
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why...
Agreed...the Japanese manufacturers made a lot of money in the 80's on how they avoided taxes and moved US profits back to Japan- which is why the IRS eventually parked an agent in their offices Laughing
zehn wrote:
For sure. Another thing to remember is that we are almost at the pinnacle of bike tech. Sure, there's some things that can always be improved...
For sure. Another thing to remember is that we are almost at the pinnacle of bike tech. Sure, there's some things that can always be improved upon, but back in the 80s, the tech was always changing and evolving much faster than today because they had a lot more to improve upon than we do today.
Zracer wrote:
Rofl. You think that it in the 80s they didnt think they were at the pinnacle of bike tech? 30 years from now I hope you...
Rofl. You think that it in the 80s they didnt think they were at the pinnacle of bike tech? 30 years from now
I hope you re read your comment to see how stupid it was.
To a point Zracer is correct..yes we will see advances but not to the degree we saw them in the past..of course until we all on electric..Laughing

Year to year bike changes are very small compared to the 80's and 90's...today a guy can easily be competitive on a 6, 7, 8 year old bike. This was not the case back then..
deltamotocross 10/24/2014 3:27pm
10/24/2014 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2014 3:29pm
scooter5002 wrote:
"We could do everything; nothing is impossible if the customer demands it." Lol
Titan1 wrote:
In that case, I demand a modern Honda 300cc (I'll even take a 250cc) two stroke with an Electric start! (Or a Yamaha 250cc 2 stroke...
In that case, I demand a modern Honda 300cc (I'll even take a 250cc) two stroke with an Electric start! (Or a Yamaha 250cc 2 stroke with an electric start...even.)

Make that a 350, and you got a bike that outmatche's the very best 450's in every performance catagory.
A 350 2 stroke would be perfect..
C'Mon Honda this is the bike 70% of American'a really want..
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Jack mehoff 10/24/2014 7:50pm
10/24/2014 7:50pm
SOME ONE NEEDS TO WALK THIS ASS CLOWN THROUGH A KTM DEALERSHIP, then my boy yash would SEE WITH HIS OWN 2EYES WHAT THE CONSOMER WANTS A 2 STROKE
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Radical 10/24/2014 9:13pm
10/24/2014 9:13pm
That's a really cool article. He'll make whatever we demand!
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FWYT 10/24/2014 9:34pm
10/24/2014 9:34pm
Good read!!
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mxtech1 10/24/2014 9:48pm
10/24/2014 9:48pm
You have to realize his position within the corporation. It's obvious he's a moto guy and really understands what the customers want. The problem is that he has no pull in modifying Corporate Honda's product portfolio. The direction he gets to work and spend R&D money on is dictated by a board of Corporate leaders who mandate what they are going to sell, what they'll R&D for future use, and what they want to push to the customer.

It is ignorant that some of you insult him as an engineer and act like it's his fault Honda quit making the 2 strokes.
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level 10/25/2014 5:43am
10/25/2014 5:43am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2014 5:43am
mxtech1 wrote:
You have to realize his position within the corporation. It's obvious he's a moto guy and really understands what the customers want. The problem is that...
You have to realize his position within the corporation. It's obvious he's a moto guy and really understands what the customers want. The problem is that he has no pull in modifying Corporate Honda's product portfolio. The direction he gets to work and spend R&D money on is dictated by a board of Corporate leaders who mandate what they are going to sell, what they'll R&D for future use, and what they want to push to the customer.

It is ignorant that some of you insult him as an engineer and act like it's his fault Honda quit making the 2 strokes.
Exactly. Also, it's hard to come down on the corporate leaders because they are the ones combing through financials and reports that guides them in making decisions to push down to engineers.
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Markee 10/25/2014 5:47am
10/25/2014 5:47am
Yeah, thats what we need is F1 racing technology in a dirt bike for a consumer.. I mean moto is easier than ever, what else do you want? Most folks can keep the bikes in 3rd, don't have to use the clutch, ignore the rear brake, no need to focus on turns with the wick of the throttle cursing down the straight with excellent suspension...

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