AV Gas for 2 strokes..

pilotdude
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pilotdude 9/16/2014 1:09pm
9/16/2014 1:09pm
I've run 100LL in my 01 CR250 and 06 CRF450 almost exclusively with no problems at at. Cost about $2/gal more here but no ethanol, evaporates nicely when you spill it, and gives me an excuse to go to the airport. Did a piston replacement in my 450 at 100 hours and it looked fantastic.
FGR01
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FGR01 9/16/2014 1:12pm
9/16/2014 1:12pm
Can't go wrong with any of them. But I don't think there's any lubrication or performance benefit to be gained running castor over modern synthetics.

Sometimes Pro's are easier on the bike than the 250lb novice who seems incapable of shifting out of 3rd gear...LOL I'm a local "vet-Pro", not a true Pro by any means, but I assure you, when I ride my 125 the oil is getting a good test.

Just don't let Castor sit in the carb over winter or anything like that. The carb on my YZ250 was ruined by the previous owner by doing that with 927.
mxpappy711
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mxpappy711 9/16/2014 1:16pm
9/16/2014 1:16pm
Guy who just rebuilt my motor says AV gas and Regular or mid grade 50/50 (2012 KTM SX). He says to raise octaine they add more ethanol so you get less ethanol with the low amd mid grade pump gas. Less ethanol= less water too, water will kill your bottom end bearings.
I could hear my 09 yz250 ping on straight pump high test, pinging goes away with a 50/50 mix. If it don't ping you don't need more octane but lead is good lubracant for 2 stroke.
Psc19933
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Psc19933 9/16/2014 1:17pm
9/16/2014 1:17pm
Psc19933 wrote:
I always liked half premium pump and half av gas. Even though it is called 100 low lead it has A LOT of lead in it...
I always liked half premium pump and half av gas. Even though it is called 100 low lead it has A LOT of lead in it, more than any street gas ever had in it.
Cygnus wrote:
Wrong, leaded fuel back In the seventies had 4 grams per gallon. 100LL only has .59 of a gram at most . Watch what you guys...
Wrong, leaded fuel back In the seventies had 4 grams per gallon. 100LL only has .59 of a gram at most . Watch what you guys are getting and ask for a spec sheet on the fuel. All lead will be gone before 2023 as per the EPA. Maybe sooner with all the new aviation fuels coming out.
Well in the article you posted it says 2 grams per gallon. So which is it? Or just be honest and say you don't know. 100ll gets the name low lead from the 130 leaded av gas it replaces that had even more lead in it. 100ll av gas still has a lot of lead in it.

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Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 1:55pm
9/16/2014 1:55pm
Psc19933 wrote:
I always liked half premium pump and half av gas. Even though it is called 100 low lead it has A LOT of lead in it...
I always liked half premium pump and half av gas. Even though it is called 100 low lead it has A LOT of lead in it, more than any street gas ever had in it.
Cygnus wrote:
Wrong, leaded fuel back In the seventies had 4 grams per gallon. 100LL only has .59 of a gram at most . Watch what you guys...
Wrong, leaded fuel back In the seventies had 4 grams per gallon. 100LL only has .59 of a gram at most . Watch what you guys are getting and ask for a spec sheet on the fuel. All lead will be gone before 2023 as per the EPA. Maybe sooner with all the new aviation fuels coming out.
Psc19933 wrote:
Well in the article you posted it says 2 grams per gallon. So which is it? Or just be honest and say you don't know. 100ll...
Well in the article you posted it says 2 grams per gallon. So which is it? Or just be honest and say you don't know. 100ll gets the name low lead from the 130 leaded av gas it replaces that had even more lead in it. 100ll av gas still has a lot of lead in it.
Actually it's dropped slowly over the years. So it could be any if the above. Now it's at an all time low of .59. All lead will be gone from fuel by 2023.
CamP
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CamP 9/16/2014 2:09pm
9/16/2014 2:09pm
Cygnus wrote:
Actually it's dropped slowly over the years. So it could be any if the above. Now it's at an all time low of .59. All lead...
Actually it's dropped slowly over the years. So it could be any if the above. Now it's at an all time low of .59. All lead will be gone from fuel by 2023.
The FAA and the Federal govt have not made any changes to 100LL. It's still 2 grams/gallon.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 2:30pm
9/16/2014 2:30pm
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away.

http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/st…

The most commonly used aviation fuel is 100LL, i.e., "low lead". It is dyed blue and contains a relatively small amount of tetraethyl lead - though the amount is greater than what was contained in many automotive grades of leaded fuel before such fuel was phased out. As of Jan 2010, 100LL has a TEL content of 1.2 to 2 grams TEL per US gallon (0.3–0.5 g/l) and is the most commonly available and used aviation gasoline. One gram of TEL contains 600 milligrams of lead.


Believe me I love to have lead in my fuel. It's great for lubrication. But as we all know the EPA will continue to protect us from ourselves.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 2:34pm
9/16/2014 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2014 2:35pm
I will tell you that my old mercury outboard with cast iron sleeves and soft rings was ruined by av gas due to the organics that ate up the iron. With Chrome/nikasil coatings and chrome rings it doesn't happen.
CamP
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CamP 9/16/2014 2:39pm
9/16/2014 2:39pm
Cygnus wrote:
I will tell you that my old mercury outboard with cast iron sleeves and soft rings was ruined by av gas due to the organics that...
I will tell you that my old mercury outboard with cast iron sleeves and soft rings was ruined by av gas due to the organics that ate up the iron. With Chrome/nikasil coatings and chrome rings it doesn't happen.
I greatly doubt the fuel was your problem. Aircraft often sits for long periods of time and no pilot can afford to have engine trouble when he is trying to take off.
CamP
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CamP 9/16/2014 2:42pm
9/16/2014 2:42pm
Cygnus wrote:
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away. http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/statoilAviation/avgas100ll.html The most commonly used aviation fuel is...
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away.

http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/st…

The most commonly used aviation fuel is 100LL, i.e., "low lead". It is dyed blue and contains a relatively small amount of tetraethyl lead - though the amount is greater than what was contained in many automotive grades of leaded fuel before such fuel was phased out. As of Jan 2010, 100LL has a TEL content of 1.2 to 2 grams TEL per US gallon (0.3–0.5 g/l) and is the most commonly available and used aviation gasoline. One gram of TEL contains 600 milligrams of lead.


Believe me I love to have lead in my fuel. It's great for lubrication. But as we all know the EPA will continue to protect us from ourselves.
100LL isn't going anywhere. The FAA and EPA have been trying for decades to find a non-ethanol unleaded 100 octane alternative to 100LL for decades and it simply doesn't exist.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 2:53pm
9/16/2014 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2014 2:54pm
Cygnus wrote:
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away. http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/statoilAviation/avgas100ll.html The most commonly used aviation fuel is...
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away.

http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/st…

The most commonly used aviation fuel is 100LL, i.e., "low lead". It is dyed blue and contains a relatively small amount of tetraethyl lead - though the amount is greater than what was contained in many automotive grades of leaded fuel before such fuel was phased out. As of Jan 2010, 100LL has a TEL content of 1.2 to 2 grams TEL per US gallon (0.3–0.5 g/l) and is the most commonly available and used aviation gasoline. One gram of TEL contains 600 milligrams of lead.


Believe me I love to have lead in my fuel. It's great for lubrication. But as we all know the EPA will continue to protect us from ourselves.
CamP wrote:
100LL isn't going anywhere. The FAA and EPA have been trying for decades to find a non-ethanol unleaded 100 octane alternative to 100LL for decades and...
100LL isn't going anywhere. The FAA and EPA have been trying for decades to find a non-ethanol unleaded 100 octane alternative to 100LL for decades and it simply doesn't exist.
We can discuss gas for days but don't kid yourself.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/
Psc19933
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Psc19933 9/16/2014 3:16pm
9/16/2014 3:16pm
Cygnus wrote:
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away. http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/statoilAviation/avgas100ll.html The most commonly used aviation fuel is...
Well the stuff I found earlier was down to .59. This says different but it's still going away.

http://www.statoilaviation.com/en_EN/pg1332347009500/ar1334072085837/st…

The most commonly used aviation fuel is 100LL, i.e., "low lead". It is dyed blue and contains a relatively small amount of tetraethyl lead - though the amount is greater than what was contained in many automotive grades of leaded fuel before such fuel was phased out. As of Jan 2010, 100LL has a TEL content of 1.2 to 2 grams TEL per US gallon (0.3–0.5 g/l) and is the most commonly available and used aviation gasoline. One gram of TEL contains 600 milligrams of lead.


Believe me I love to have lead in my fuel. It's great for lubrication. But as we all know the EPA will continue to protect us from ourselves.
Lol, so it DOES contain more lead than the auto gasses used to contain, according you your own post.
CamP
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CamP 9/16/2014 3:18pm
9/16/2014 3:18pm
Cygnus wrote:
We can discuss gas for days but don't kid yourself.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/
We'll see. The big problem is getting 100 octane without adding ethanol. Look at the MSDS on any unleaded 100 octane race fuel and you'll find a lot of ethanol.
41NDT
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41NDT 9/16/2014 4:17pm
9/16/2014 4:17pm
HazemG wrote:
Heard the YZ's don't like pump gas.. would AV Gas mixed 32:1 or 40:1 work? What is your preferred premix brand? Going to pick some up...
Heard the YZ's don't like pump gas.. would AV Gas mixed 32:1 or 40:1 work? What is your preferred premix brand? Going to pick some up today.
in Oz we suffer from detonation because our fuel here is piss poor. I run and octane booster / fuel stabiliser it stopped the detonation and I'm sure works out cheaper than av gas. it mixes at 8ml/1litre of fuel.
Psc19933
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Psc19933 9/16/2014 4:35pm
9/16/2014 4:35pm
Cygnus wrote:
We can discuss gas for days but don't kid yourself.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/
CamP wrote:
We'll see. The big problem is getting 100 octane without adding ethanol. Look at the MSDS on any unleaded 100 octane race fuel and you'll find...
We'll see. The big problem is getting 100 octane without adding ethanol. Look at the MSDS on any unleaded 100 octane race fuel and you'll find a lot of ethanol.
I think your right about that. And also let's be honest, even though I also use it, lead in gas isn't a good thing. I would be happy to see it go. The levels alongside the roads have really high lead levels because of leaded gas. I pity the people behind me at the track, oh wait, there is never anyone behind me at the track...
aFACEdismembered 9/16/2014 4:39pm
9/16/2014 4:39pm
CamP wrote:
100LL is good 2-stroke fuel. It's only $5/gal around here, so I just run it straight. The oil ratio depends on the type of oil, your...
100LL is good 2-stroke fuel. It's only $5/gal around here, so I just run it straight.

The oil ratio depends on the type of oil, your skill level and what type of dirt you ride.
IWreckALot wrote:
I've been running 50/50 av gas/premium. You get your av gas from hicks airfield? Where else can you get it around the DFW? I run belray...
I've been running 50/50 av gas/premium. You get your av gas from hicks airfield? Where else can you get it around the DFW?

I run belray 2 stroke oil at 32:1 in my 2013 YZ250. I have only fouled one plug in 8 months. And it runs pretty strong. I've let 2 or 3 other people ride my bike and they all think it runs pretty strong. It's my first 2 stroke so I don't have anything to gauge it against.
My dad used to get it from an airport out by Mesquite. Don't remember where exactly, I was to young.
RMRider1
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RMRider1 9/16/2014 5:43pm
9/16/2014 5:43pm
Never really heard detonation before....is the pinging sound an obvious sound? I run my stock '06 cr 250 on non ethanol 91 and have never heard a pinging...sorry not trying to hijack just have always been curious about the sound of detonation...
Bigoldbeef 9/16/2014 5:52pm
9/16/2014 5:52pm
HazemG wrote:
Heard the YZ's don't like pump gas.. would AV Gas mixed 32:1 or 40:1 work? What is your preferred premix brand? Going to pick some up...
Heard the YZ's don't like pump gas.. would AV Gas mixed 32:1 or 40:1 work? What is your preferred premix brand? Going to pick some up today.
If you run LL100, you will need to rejet for it.

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Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 5:59pm
9/16/2014 5:59pm
Run it you can get it. Keep a close eye on jetting. If you decide to mix it make sure it is exactly the same mix every time. Same oil and ratio too.

Funny I searched and the same guys have had this discussion before. I will stick with what I know. Find a fuel and oil that work for you and just don't deviate.
slipdog
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slipdog 9/16/2014 6:11pm
9/16/2014 6:11pm
Día de la marmota mutherfucker!
resetjet
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resetjet 9/16/2014 6:28pm
9/16/2014 6:28pm
Lead is the cheap easy way to boost octane. Also a great lubricator for your valves. Aircraft engines are air cooled and run cylinder temps up to the low 400's and rpm range is 500-3750. Big gigantic pistons and valves.........The fuel is formulated for that and a different animal then a dirt bike. Of course it will work though. Your cyl temps will be hotter compared to pump gas. I used to run pump gas (mogas) in my banner tow plane to keep the cylinder head temps down as we ran high power on the edge of a stall. I'd pour some marvel mystery oil in it to make up for the no lead.

Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about the ethanol(ok here we go), I leave bikes chainsaws, weedeaters, and even boats for months (2t and 4T) with ethanol gas in them, never had any issues.......I am wondering if this is a he said she said thing, or people are really blowing the bikes up. I believe the former at the moment. None of the 30 or so guys I ride with report anything either, although one of them pours his leftover gas for the day in the truck so it won't sit for a week!!!!!!!
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 9/16/2014 6:31pm
9/16/2014 6:31pm
You guys know too much about gas.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 9/16/2014 6:31pm
9/16/2014 6:31pm
slipdog wrote:
Día de la marmota mutherfucker!


sesker15
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sesker15 9/16/2014 6:48pm
9/16/2014 6:48pm
VP VPR is good and Any brand of 110 fuel is good. I run straight race fuel in my YZ125 and YZ250
bvm111
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bvm111 9/16/2014 7:37pm
9/16/2014 7:37pm
RMRider1 wrote:
Never really heard detonation before....is the pinging sound an obvious sound? I run my stock '06 cr 250 on non ethanol 91 and have never heard...
Never really heard detonation before....is the pinging sound an obvious sound? I run my stock '06 cr 250 on non ethanol 91 and have never heard a pinging...sorry not trying to hijack just have always been curious about the sound of detonation...
It's pretty obvious, usually sounds like your engine swallowed a handful of rocks and they are bouncing around inside the combustion chamber. Usually you will hear it when under heavy load such as coming out of a tight sandy corner... Usually!
JM485
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JM485 9/16/2014 8:57pm
9/16/2014 8:57pm
I have been running 100LL for about a month now in my 125 cut 50/50 with pump gas, and have been very happy with it! It is relatively cheap, about 5 dollars a gallon where I buy it, plus it's cool to get up close to some planes and see how those guys go about their hobby. Just so everyone knows, when I went to buy it I was a bit confused when the pump asked for a tail number. The guys who helped me out the first time told me to just make one up, start with a letter, then four numbers, then end with a letter. Hope that helps someone.
CamP
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CamP 9/16/2014 11:02pm
9/16/2014 11:02pm
slipdog wrote:
Día de la marmota mutherfucker!
Cygnus wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/09/16/65292/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


LOL
resetjet
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resetjet 9/17/2014 6:22am
9/17/2014 6:22am
The first letter is N.....All planes in the US start with N. Then just make up 5 numbers......I used to work at the airport pumping gas and these guys would come in with race gas cans to buy gas. Funny too as all pilots use the phonetics for the letters. So N is november......so N5734G is November 5 7 3 4 GULF.........They know and they don't care, but it is illegal to sell for other purposes so they have to ask. Use that tail number, it is my old Cessna and it is destroyed.
endurox
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endurox 9/17/2014 7:35am
9/17/2014 7:35am
Cygnus wrote:
Just find some good race gas and jet for it. Av gas I ok but not great. Here's a good read. Racing Gasoline Verses Aviation Gasoline...
Just find some good race gas and jet for it. Av gas I ok but not great.

Here's a good read.

Racing Gasoline Verses Aviation Gasoline

written by, and thanks to Tim Wusz 76 Products Company

I am going to attempt to address the controversy of aviation gasoline verses racing gasoline for use in race cars. Some racers use aviation gasoline which is fine for some applications but does have shortcomings. There are several grades of aviation gasoline (avgas) that we must identify before going any farther.

1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.

2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.

3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.

4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.


The remainder of this discussion will assume that our basis for comparison with racing gasoline is avgas 100/130 and/or 100 LL since they are both available and have acceptable octane quality for limited applications. When the word "avgas" is used, it will refer to avgas 100/130 or 100 LL.

Avgas is less dense than most racing gasolines. Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The racer must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas.

The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the racer may not know what is happening until it is too late.

For maximum performance and power from a racing engine, racing gasoline will normally provide better performance than avgas. Avgas can be a good gasoline for some applications, but since most racers do not know the octane requirement of their engines, they would be better off with a "real" racing gasoline that will give them the overall resistance to detonation that they need to protect their investment. If someone has spent from $15,000 to $50,000 or more on their racing engine, it is foolish to cut corners on gasoline be sure you have a gasoline with adequate octane quality.
The only av gas available these days is the 100very low lead. The FAA is working on a replacement of the low lead fuel
by 2018. Most of the dinosaur piston powered aircraft engines (360cubic inch 180-200hp engines) need a bit of lead
so it will be interesting to see what the substitute fuel will be. Current rumor is a 96 octane unleaded fuel. I mix 50/50 avgas and non ethanol gas in the winter time and run straight non ethanol gas 40:1 in my KTM 153 during the summer time(high altitude riding). Anyways av gas is high quality and consistent anywhere you buy it.

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