What is the solution?

8/17/2014 1:57pm
At Helvetia Park, in Sacramento, our 1st turn was an oak tree with an old mattress tied to it.
GuyB wrote:
Did it spawn a forum thread suggesting that the trees were too close to the track, and needed to be cut down? Wink
No....But the riders tended to wait their turn before they went around it!
zippy895
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8/17/2014 1:58pm
zippy895 wrote:
truly, a 6 ft wall of dirt in suspect area should do the trick. photogs can be aloud on top of wall.
GuyB wrote:
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup. Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup.

Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...



wooden plank footers for that track then
MR. X
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8/17/2014 1:58pm
GuyB wrote:
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup. Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup.

Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...



Tell the truth , you dropped one of your lenses in the porta-potty and fishing it out with your hands was out of the question.
hillbilly
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8/17/2014 1:59pm
Stop and go penalty after review of start footage

The Shop

zippy895
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8/17/2014 2:05pm
JPT
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8/17/2014 2:11pm
GuyB wrote:
Barbed wire. Duh.
Remind me to show you my barbed wire scar at the Vegas SX next year Steve. It's the track marker that keeps on giving.
GuyB
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8/17/2014 2:21pm
GuyB wrote:
Barbed wire. Duh.
JPT wrote:
Remind me to show you my barbed wire scar at the Vegas SX next year Steve. It's the track marker that keeps on giving.
Yikes...no thanks. Smile
8/17/2014 2:23pm
zippy895 wrote:
[img]http://taylorseast.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dsc00786.jpg[/img]
Zippy, That's a stroke of genius, but OSHA wouldn't like it.
Gardner
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8/17/2014 2:26pm
The moat thing...

If you grew up racing Moroso and Homestead in the 80's this was a fact. Many of us ended up in the canals at one point or another.
IWreckALot
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8/17/2014 5:20pm
zippy895 wrote:
truly, a 6 ft wall of dirt in suspect area should do the trick. photogs can be aloud on top of wall.
GuyB wrote:
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup. Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...
In Indiana it would have become a three-foot pile of soup.

Here's what my shoes looked after traversing some of the muddier areas while shooting yesterday...



Shave your legs if you want to take :10 a mile off your mile time while riding bicycle. Bro.
slipdog
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8/17/2014 5:32pm
zippy895 wrote:
[img]http://taylorseast.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dsc00786.jpg[/img]
Zippy, That's a stroke of genius, but OSHA wouldn't like it.
I know there's a pretty good WMA joke in this photo somewhere...
Getndome
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8/17/2014 6:34pm
How about supercross style whoops along the sides so if they want to gain an advantage they have to earn it lol
Brad460
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8/17/2014 6:50pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Several of us, myself included, find ourselves complaining about 5 times per year on average about track cutting and gaining an unfair advantage. None of us...
Several of us, myself included, find ourselves complaining about 5 times per year on average about track cutting and gaining an unfair advantage. None of us, however, have came up with a solution to it. What should be done? What is the best solution taking into consideration rider safety and fairness to all riders? Do they have it the best it can be right now? I find that hard to believe, but maybe they do if none of us can come up with something better. I just feel like something needs to be changed or else it will get more ridiculous than it already is.
Maybe the solution is for "you", "several of us" and " ourselves" should stop complaining about every fricken thing..problem solved..Wink
TDeath21
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8/17/2014 6:57pm
danman wrote:
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for...
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for 20 bikes to pass. If they don't, the penalty should be a one lap penalty. Make it severe and they won't do it.
You should be penalized for going off the track.
This is the best solution so far. Riders are conditioned to just pin it when they go off the track and rejoin when they can. If they had to slow down and come back on immediately with a severe penalty if they don't, this cheating wouldn't be allowed.

The way the rule reads right now, the following situation is technically legal. Let's say Stewart and Villopoto are in a battle at the end of the race. Stewart is flying through the whoops and Villopoto is better on the rest of the track. With Villopoto in front of Stewart and only a lap left, Stewart is setting up a pass in the whoop section. Only Villopoto, knowing Stewart would pass him through the whoops, makes a mistake trying to push a little harder in the previous turn and goes off the track just before the whoop section. At this point, Villopoto takes advantage of the rules and keeps a decent speed off the track beside the whoops. He then rejoins the racing in front of Stewart just after the whoop section, staying in front of Stewart for the rest of the lap and preserving the win. Advantage gained? Technically, by the rules, no. He came back on the track in the same place (relative to the other riders) as he went off. Would the previous situation ever happen? Doubtful, but the fact that a race or god forbid a championship could potentially be decided on this rule is ridiculous.

The Unadilla first turn was a joke. Instead of getting pinched off and starting 30th, the riders pin it around the outside and come out in the top 10.

I could point to several other instances where this has happened, but it is most prominent on the first lap, which is where the rider can gain the biggest advantage by track cutting. There's a big difference between a 30th place start and a 10th place start.
TDeath21
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8/17/2014 6:59pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2014 6:59pm
Brad460 wrote:
Maybe the solution is for "you", "several of us" and " ourselves" should stop complaining about every fricken thing..problem solved..Wink
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done about it?
Dart Board
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8/17/2014 7:01pm
danman wrote:
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for...
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for 20 bikes to pass. If they don't, the penalty should be a one lap penalty. Make it severe and they won't do it.
You should be penalized for going off the track.
TDeath21 wrote:
This is the best solution so far. Riders are conditioned to just pin it when they go off the track and rejoin when they can. If...
This is the best solution so far. Riders are conditioned to just pin it when they go off the track and rejoin when they can. If they had to slow down and come back on immediately with a severe penalty if they don't, this cheating wouldn't be allowed.

The way the rule reads right now, the following situation is technically legal. Let's say Stewart and Villopoto are in a battle at the end of the race. Stewart is flying through the whoops and Villopoto is better on the rest of the track. With Villopoto in front of Stewart and only a lap left, Stewart is setting up a pass in the whoop section. Only Villopoto, knowing Stewart would pass him through the whoops, makes a mistake trying to push a little harder in the previous turn and goes off the track just before the whoop section. At this point, Villopoto takes advantage of the rules and keeps a decent speed off the track beside the whoops. He then rejoins the racing in front of Stewart just after the whoop section, staying in front of Stewart for the rest of the lap and preserving the win. Advantage gained? Technically, by the rules, no. He came back on the track in the same place (relative to the other riders) as he went off. Would the previous situation ever happen? Doubtful, but the fact that a race or god forbid a championship could potentially be decided on this rule is ridiculous.

The Unadilla first turn was a joke. Instead of getting pinched off and starting 30th, the riders pin it around the outside and come out in the top 10.

I could point to several other instances where this has happened, but it is most prominent on the first lap, which is where the rider can gain the biggest advantage by track cutting. There's a big difference between a 30th place start and a 10th place start.
I remember last year at Millville, Canard made a mistake on the last lap in the sand whoops and Stewart was right on him pressuring him... He sped down the side of the track and cut back on just in front of stewart which I thought was unfair.
8/17/2014 7:03pm
Brad460 wrote:
Maybe the solution is for "you", "several of us" and " ourselves" should stop complaining about every fricken thing..problem solved..Wink
Quit complaining about our complaining!
TDeath21
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8/17/2014 7:18pm
danman wrote:
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for...
Actual enforcement of the rules, and state that they HAVE TO re-enter where they went off, AND in a safe manner. That may mean waiting for 20 bikes to pass. If they don't, the penalty should be a one lap penalty. Make it severe and they won't do it.
You should be penalized for going off the track.
TDeath21 wrote:
This is the best solution so far. Riders are conditioned to just pin it when they go off the track and rejoin when they can. If...
This is the best solution so far. Riders are conditioned to just pin it when they go off the track and rejoin when they can. If they had to slow down and come back on immediately with a severe penalty if they don't, this cheating wouldn't be allowed.

The way the rule reads right now, the following situation is technically legal. Let's say Stewart and Villopoto are in a battle at the end of the race. Stewart is flying through the whoops and Villopoto is better on the rest of the track. With Villopoto in front of Stewart and only a lap left, Stewart is setting up a pass in the whoop section. Only Villopoto, knowing Stewart would pass him through the whoops, makes a mistake trying to push a little harder in the previous turn and goes off the track just before the whoop section. At this point, Villopoto takes advantage of the rules and keeps a decent speed off the track beside the whoops. He then rejoins the racing in front of Stewart just after the whoop section, staying in front of Stewart for the rest of the lap and preserving the win. Advantage gained? Technically, by the rules, no. He came back on the track in the same place (relative to the other riders) as he went off. Would the previous situation ever happen? Doubtful, but the fact that a race or god forbid a championship could potentially be decided on this rule is ridiculous.

The Unadilla first turn was a joke. Instead of getting pinched off and starting 30th, the riders pin it around the outside and come out in the top 10.

I could point to several other instances where this has happened, but it is most prominent on the first lap, which is where the rider can gain the biggest advantage by track cutting. There's a big difference between a 30th place start and a 10th place start.
Dart Board wrote:
I remember last year at Millville, Canard made a mistake on the last lap in the sand whoops and Stewart was right on him pressuring him...
I remember last year at Millville, Canard made a mistake on the last lap in the sand whoops and Stewart was right on him pressuring him... He sped down the side of the track and cut back on just in front of stewart which I thought was unfair.
https://youtu.be/zSmPsREX-QU

2:50 mark.

Stewart was actually AHEAD of Canard when Canard pinned it and chopped Stewart's line. Stewart chopped the throttle to stay on the track and avoid contact. Canard just pinned it off the track and missed the entire double. He then came out at least 10 bike lengths ahead of Stewart. I love Canard, like most people do, but he should have at least been docked one position for that.

Like I said, there's several examples we can point to where this rule needs a major overhaul.
mom241
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8/17/2014 7:22pm
He was penalized.
motomike137
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8/17/2014 7:24pm
TDeath21 wrote:
https://youtu.be/zSmPsREX-QU 2:50 mark. Stewart was actually AHEAD of Canard when Canard pinned it and chopped Stewart's line. Stewart chopped the throttle to stay on the track...
https://youtu.be/zSmPsREX-QU

2:50 mark.

Stewart was actually AHEAD of Canard when Canard pinned it and chopped Stewart's line. Stewart chopped the throttle to stay on the track and avoid contact. Canard just pinned it off the track and missed the entire double. He then came out at least 10 bike lengths ahead of Stewart. I love Canard, like most people do, but he should have at least been docked one position for that.

Like I said, there's several examples we can point to where this rule needs a major overhaul.
wow... that is a perfect example
Brad460
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8/17/2014 7:30pm
Brad460 wrote:
Maybe the solution is for "you", "several of us" and " ourselves" should stop complaining about every fricken thing..problem solved..Wink
TDeath21 wrote:
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done...
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done about it?
I don't feel it will have any affect on the championship or second place or third place or any place for that matter..

So you feel track cutting has severely affected, or will affect, the outcome of the championship?!
TDeath21
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8/17/2014 7:36pm
Brad460 wrote:
Maybe the solution is for "you", "several of us" and " ourselves" should stop complaining about every fricken thing..problem solved..Wink
TDeath21 wrote:
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done...
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done about it?
Brad460 wrote:
I don't feel it will have any affect on the championship or second place or third place or any place for that matter.. So you feel...
I don't feel it will have any affect on the championship or second place or third place or any place for that matter..

So you feel track cutting has severely affected, or will affect, the outcome of the championship?!
It can make a huge difference. Cooper Webb at Unadilla for example. That might have saved him 2nd in points. Dungey's off track excursion in Indiana could have saved him the championship. Point being, it's definitely possible, and that alone is inexcusable.
Squid-mom
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8/18/2014 6:30am
Berm wrote:
Quite a few people have come up with a solution. Actual enforcement of the rules that are already in place and they would stop cutting.
As with most of the AMA rules, a complete lack of enforcement is the problem. Go watch RacerTV live broadcast of LL and see how many riders completely cut out the 2nd turn pulling back onto the track in with the top 3. Not once did I hear about any penalties being administered. One class had 'under review' printed on the results sheet for days. Honestly, I think that was a scare tactic to get people to think that they were going to start docking riders. But, as expected, in the end, they did nothing at all.
fidiot
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8/18/2014 6:40am
Somebody mentioned it in another thread. Put hay bales up forcing riders to ride slowly in a zig-zag pattern between them, then have the bales lined up directing the riders back onto the track. By the time they navigate through the maze of hay bales, the pack is gone, and they reenter the track in last place.
steveada
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8/18/2014 6:53am
Frequent breaks in the line of banners so riders would not have an excuse if they pass 4 openings in the banners before they get back on the track.
lostboy819
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8/18/2014 6:58am
TDeath21 wrote:
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done...
I actually don't complain about everything, but you'll believe whatever you want to I guess. You think track cutting is okay and nothing should be done about it?
So how does it affect you ? and why does it bother you so much ?
4stroke4DWIN
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8/18/2014 7:04am
Are the actual racers complaining or just the couch racers lol?
8/18/2014 7:22am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2014 7:29am
Long story short.....The rules committee needs to come up with a workable solution and then enforce the rule for everybody. This will be a continuing problem. I think that some camps will put the track cutting into their game plan. Probably has already happened, as with the Cooper Webb incident.

I was a MX referee for many years and , I will assure you, I would have dealt with the problem in some way.
hillbilly
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8/18/2014 7:51am
There is no way to stop off track excursions,no safe way. A rider needs run off area to avoid.

So,what you need to decide is how to deal with a suspected gain in position.

The start would be easy to review video,elsewhere not so easy.

Since the start got this going lets deal with that.

A rider gains positions ,do you wait till moto end to assess a penalty? How big a penalty?

Or,

Post his number on the flagstand with a black flag and tell his mechanic.

Make that rider pull in to the mechanics area and stop,maybe a different time for the number of positions gained.

This way the rider would have time to regain the loss of positions.

Either way the rider needs to know a penalty is coming so he can make as many passes as he can to offset the point loss.

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