Stewart suspended?

ehr400
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6/20/2014 9:15am
ehr400 wrote:
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once...
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once he retires he will write a book and you will be shocked on some of the things I have seen and heard. I wonder if he will say fuck it and start dropping peoples names or airing dirty laundry? Just speculation.
That would still be his word against theirs. I would read that book though.
True but could also tarnish guys reputations just like when Jose Canseco came forward about the rampant steroid use in baseball.
Juss
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6/20/2014 9:21am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 9:22am
Im not saying what JS did was right, but why the fuck does the FIM have anything to do with SX?
6/20/2014 9:23am
dkg wrote:
Anyway this plays out, its a sad day in the sport. Negative publicity from National media (assuming they even care) can't be good. JS7 has a...
Anyway this plays out, its a sad day in the sport. Negative publicity from National media (assuming they even care) can't be good. JS7 has a brilliant career and now he has to deal with this. And all of this over a prescription medicine that he has been taking according to reports for a long term medical condition (all indicators seem to be pointing to Adderall, an ADHD and Narcolepsy drug). Yes, JS7 should have taken steps to get TUE, but, sometimes stuff happens and things are overlooked.

The only good that can possible come from this event are:

1. There needs to be coordination between the two series for drug testing violations (it may already be there, however, some seem to suggest it isn't)

2. While I strongly support PED testing, to some extent it seems that the original intent of the testing has gone a little overboard. I thought the idea was to prohibit the use of chemicals and medical procedures for the sole purpose of artificially enhancing performance. This concept I agree with. However, when the testing includes false positives (for lack of a better term) by catching those using certain chemicals or procedures for medically valid purposes, I think things have gone too far. I am not being critical here of anyone, the riders, the testers, the sanctioning bodies included. I just think some hard examination of the original intent and where we are now should be performed.

If we get a congressional investigation into this, I suggest we gather all the bears here on Vital and march on Washington. Laughing
Good post.

On your point of this being a sad day in the sport. That is all it is. "In the sport" No national media is picking this up and none of them care. They care about what Football Johnny is doing this weekend not that James Stewart tested positive at a race they didn't even cover. They don't care about this sport. The world cup is going on and that is more important than anything.

ESPN may run an AP story on it on their racing page but you will never see this in the National media taking front and center.
zehn
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6/20/2014 9:23am
smeg wrote:
Why?

Because I ask cogent questions???
Because you made some pretty large logical leaps and huge assumptions.

The Shop

6/20/2014 9:24am
logan_140 wrote:
They fucked stew over just as he was turning it on come on not my rider but still that's supercross not nationals so how can they...
They fucked stew over just as he was turning it on come on not my rider but still that's supercross not nationals so how can they suspend him for muddy creek?!
woodsryder wrote:
How exactly did they 'fuck Stewart over"? It is clearly in the rules that banned substances are not allowed, and with a prescription, a waiver must...
How exactly did they 'fuck Stewart over"? It is clearly in the rules that banned substances are not allowed, and with a prescription, a waiver must be submitted. It is the rider's responsibility to know what they are putting in their bodies. This falls solely on JS.
MT MX wrote:
I'm a big JS7 fan, but I'd have to agree with woodsryderon this one. My only thoughts are did Yosh Suzuki know? did Mike Webb know...
I'm a big JS7 fan, but I'd have to agree with woodsryderon this one.
My only thoughts are did Yosh Suzuki know? did Mike Webb know? Rado? James Sr. & Sonja?
If I was the Stewart camp they've got 2 options - either appeal, or pull a RC/fuel issue and drop the mic.
Still a fan and always will be of James. What he's done on a motorcycle is amazing. I think this is the last chapter on his career though.
Woodsryder has a very black and white view on this. He's correct. I see it. MT MX also sort of mentioned Yosh Suzuki should have know about what chemicals were banned. That makes total sense. My question, however, is "Has anyone see the list of drugs you cannot use and are we that concerned about most of them? I ask because I've heard the list is quite long and a lot of the chemicals are in over-the-counter drugs for colds and asthma.

I admit, if this is a rule and it's broken, I guess you have to follow it, but I will also say, rules and laws are not always correct. It's like saying Slavery used to be legal too so are you saying it was fine back in the day?. Ya get what I'm saying? (Please no comments from yo rednecks on this, even if you had some read this for you.)

In the end, however, I will say that if James is not racing, what's the point? Sure, there are some good riders, but aside from Trey and possibly Reed, nobody else can make the race exciting. Sure, there are other riders that might win, but would it really be exciting like James, Trey, or Reed coming through the pack? Probably not.

If James is not on the front line and is banned for the year, who gains?

Maybe it's time to do away with the drug testing or to specify what we are specifically looking to ban. Don't poppy seeds of a bagel come of positive? Yes, they do. Very scientific, indeed.

6/20/2014 9:26am
Racer111 wrote:
See, that's where you are wrong. Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal...
See, that's where you are wrong.

Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal, not better.
"Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus."

Always? Every single prescription is legitimate? It's impossible to get a prescription without actually having ADHD?

Is there an objective ADHD test?



smeg
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6/20/2014 9:27am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 9:28am
My logic was sound. I only made the observation that things he has had issues with in the past(brain farts) have not been an issue recently. Those exact issues can be addressed with adderal and he has tested positive for adderal.

You can infer what you want.
dkg
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6/20/2014 9:29am
TripleFive wrote:
As to point number two, Don't you feel that "using certain chemicals or procedures for [i]medically valid purposes[/i]" is kind of a squishy concept? It's certainly...
As to point number two,

Don't you feel that "using certain chemicals or procedures for medically valid purposes" is kind of a squishy concept?

It's certainly not an objective standard.

If you look at the MLB suspensions, a lot of those guys has prescriptions for their PEDs. If Dr.s disagree about what is medically valid then it seems impossible to formulate a hard and fast rule that would effectively police PEDs.
I see your point, what I think the definition needs to be is something that limits the use of the drugs or procedures to those with in the standard of care or norm of the medical community. Also off label prescription of medication for PED testing purposes would not be a medically valid purpose. By way of example, Adderall, the substance assumed to be involved here according to the manufacturer is for "Adderall® is indicated for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Narcolepsy." If the athlete is not diagnosed with either condition then a prescription for the medication would not be appropriate for PED testing purposes. There will always be some grey areas, but, in those areas, the decision should be based on the original purpose of PED testing.
JW381
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6/20/2014 9:31am
ehr400 wrote:
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once...
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once he retires he will write a book and you will be shocked on some of the things I have seen and heard. I wonder if he will say fuck it and start dropping peoples names or airing dirty laundry? Just speculation.
That would still be his word against theirs. I would read that book though.
ehr400 wrote:
True but could also tarnish guys reputations just like when Jose Canseco came forward about the rampant steroid use in baseball.
I always figured James' book would be more about the racist stuff he heard in 20+ years in motocross. Especially coming from Florida.
6/20/2014 9:32am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 9:37am
dkg wrote:
I see your point, what I think the definition needs to be is something that limits the use of the drugs or procedures to those with...
I see your point, what I think the definition needs to be is something that limits the use of the drugs or procedures to those with in the standard of care or norm of the medical community. Also off label prescription of medication for PED testing purposes would not be a medically valid purpose. By way of example, Adderall, the substance assumed to be involved here according to the manufacturer is for "Adderall® is indicated for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Narcolepsy." If the athlete is not diagnosed with either condition then a prescription for the medication would not be appropriate for PED testing purposes. There will always be some grey areas, but, in those areas, the decision should be based on the original purpose of PED testing.
It's an unworkable standard.

An ADHD diagnosis is subjective.

[edit: grammar]
hvaughn88
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6/20/2014 9:33am
Woodsryder has a very black and white view on this. He's correct. I see it. MT MX also sort of mentioned Yosh Suzuki should have know...
Woodsryder has a very black and white view on this. He's correct. I see it. MT MX also sort of mentioned Yosh Suzuki should have know about what chemicals were banned. That makes total sense. My question, however, is "Has anyone see the list of drugs you cannot use and are we that concerned about most of them? I ask because I've heard the list is quite long and a lot of the chemicals are in over-the-counter drugs for colds and asthma.

I admit, if this is a rule and it's broken, I guess you have to follow it, but I will also say, rules and laws are not always correct. It's like saying Slavery used to be legal too so are you saying it was fine back in the day?. Ya get what I'm saying? (Please no comments from yo rednecks on this, even if you had some read this for you.)

In the end, however, I will say that if James is not racing, what's the point? Sure, there are some good riders, but aside from Trey and possibly Reed, nobody else can make the race exciting. Sure, there are other riders that might win, but would it really be exciting like James, Trey, or Reed coming through the pack? Probably not.

If James is not on the front line and is banned for the year, who gains?

Maybe it's time to do away with the drug testing or to specify what we are specifically looking to ban. Don't poppy seeds of a bagel come of positive? Yes, they do. Very scientific, indeed.

why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy would you bring slavery into this?? Of all the things you could have gone with you chose slavery. C'mon man!
Motodave15
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6/20/2014 9:33am
ehr400 wrote:
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once...
I wonder if some other guys being quiet on this are worried. What I mean is that I remember James saying on Pulpmx before that once he retires he will write a book and you will be shocked on some of the things I have seen and heard. I wonder if he will say fuck it and start dropping peoples names or airing dirty laundry? Just speculation.
That's what I would do... I'd fuck over the whole industry straight up... I'm personally thankful I'm not really apart of the Shit show/politics this whole tiny little sport is turning into.
JW381
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6/20/2014 9:37am
Racer111 wrote:
See, that's where you are wrong. Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal...
See, that's where you are wrong.

Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal, not better.
TripleFive wrote:
"[i]Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus.[/i]" Always? Every single prescription is legitimate? It's impossible to get a prescription without actually having ADHD? Is...
"Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus."

Always? Every single prescription is legitimate? It's impossible to get a prescription without actually having ADHD?

Is there an objective ADHD test?



I've taken adderal a few times, and it's not a wonder drug like everyone thinks. As much as I hate to admit it, I think Nerd could offer the best info on all of this.

But my understanding is that a person with ADHD has a brain that gets "bored" in situations where it's not having to work promptly. All a drug like Adderal is going to do is stimulate brain activity, but that doesn't necessarily lead to focus, especially with a person who doesn't have ADHD. I recently read an article suggesting that college kids (like myself) who have taken Adderal to cram for tests/write last minute papers don't gain any performance advantages from the drug beyond the fact that it helps them stay awake longer and gives them a sense of enjoyment. I've read that taking caffeine before a workout also helps in the exact same way - more energy and more enjoyment. But you're not actually gaining focus or increased mental ability like many swear by. In fact, it can still have the opposite effect on people who don't have ADHD, which was my experience (took some addi before writing a paper, ended up surfing Vital and ThumperTalk for an hour or two then passed out and went to bed).
BigDaddyG
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6/20/2014 9:38am
I sure as hell hope they don't suspend him from the nationals and take away a legit chance at the title. It's not like he is snorting lines in the semi, he has a perscription from a doctor. They, WADA or whoever needs to investigate that prior to even spilling the beans that he or anyone failed a test. If he failed it and its a legit medication for legit illness then not a single word should be talked about it to the public. Why even associate someone with something that always is negative if they were not in the wrong?

The ant-doping agencies need to re-evaluate the list of drugs by sport and by illness/medical issues. So, lets say a guy does have ADHD....they would rather have him bouncing off the fucking walls like a ping pong ball and send him on the track then have him treated so he is stable and then let him ride. Makes zero sense.

God forbid you get a cold, go into the drug store and whip out your list of WADA banned substances before you buy your sudafed. Give me a break!
Paul333
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6/20/2014 9:40am
Reason #1001 why I cannot stand the FIM having anything to do with our Supercross Series. Why the hell are they involved at all in a completely North American (One round in Canada) series?

Like they haven’t completely ruined their own GP series?

I admit I expected something to come down on Stewart but it sure as hell shouldn’t be decided by the money grubbing scumbags at the FIM.
dkg
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6/20/2014 9:41am
TripleFive wrote:
It's an unworkable standard.

An ADHD diagnosis is subjective.

[edit: grammar]
Best I got. Smile Guess that is why I didn't go to medical school.

p.s. Aren't you supposed to be studying for the bar?
wow123
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6/20/2014 9:41am
Juss wrote:
Im not saying what JS did was right, but why the fuck does the FIM have anything to do with SX?
pretty sure its insurance

it goes

FIM
AMA or what ever countries name it is (MA in Australia)
Local club

all affiliates and by being that way get affordable insurance for races

that's the way it was when I was a secretary of a club
Markee
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6/20/2014 9:42am
He should just pull that race card since this ordeal is pile of horse shit. WADA is basically singling out the only african american capable rider to de throwing the titled sponsored monster rider on the grounds of a childhood condition, its racist and medically discriminatory. Smile

WADA is racist. Get em james! lmao
JW381
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6/20/2014 9:42am
dkg wrote:
I see your point, what I think the definition needs to be is something that limits the use of the drugs or procedures to those with...
I see your point, what I think the definition needs to be is something that limits the use of the drugs or procedures to those with in the standard of care or norm of the medical community. Also off label prescription of medication for PED testing purposes would not be a medically valid purpose. By way of example, Adderall, the substance assumed to be involved here according to the manufacturer is for "Adderall® is indicated for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Narcolepsy." If the athlete is not diagnosed with either condition then a prescription for the medication would not be appropriate for PED testing purposes. There will always be some grey areas, but, in those areas, the decision should be based on the original purpose of PED testing.
TripleFive wrote:
It's an unworkable standard.

An ADHD diagnosis is subjective.

[edit: grammar]
ADHD diagnosis is also dependent on the availability of a drug/procedure that doctor's claim will cure it.

Restless Leg Syndrome? Wasn't a medically recognized disorder until after the drug company found a way to market a particular medicine as a cure for RLS. Only then was RLS recognized as a medical disorder, and prescriptions started flying like singles at a titty bar.

MT MX
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6/20/2014 9:46am
hvaughn88 wrote:
why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy would you bring slavery into this?? Of all the things you could have gone with...
why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy would you bring slavery into this?? Of all the things you could have gone with you chose slavery. C'mon man!
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
6/20/2014 9:56am
dkg wrote:
Best I got. Smile Guess that is why I didn't go to medical school.

p.s. Aren't you supposed to be studying for the bar?
Dude, how could I possibly do that when this stuff is going on!?
6/20/2014 10:09am
bturner26x wrote:
He's still going to have to deal with the back lash from his team & sponsors. Failing a PED test in professional sports is taboo these...
He's still going to have to deal with the back lash from his team & sponsors. Failing a PED test in professional sports is taboo these days especially after baseball & Armstrong.

Who's to say hell even have a ride next weekend? Corparete sponsors don't want to sponsor an athlete that test positive for PEDs. It's not a good look. Well have to see how that plays out. I'm sure DCis going to have to make some kind of decision on this. Can't AMA suspend his pro card? Then he couldn't race.

What a mess. Sucks for our sport. This is why I didn't want testing. We are to small. One top guy fails & were down to 3 podium guys. We only have 5-7 A-listers, this isn't football where they have 250 A-listers.
My thoughts exactly. In the interest of putting on a pretend show of "top-tier sport" legitimacy, the idiots in charge of u.s. racing have fucked both themselves and one of our biggest riders. I dont give a fuck if he shouldnt have taken the drugs; this horseshit testing was done as a dog-and-pony show and has nothing to do with "making sure our atheletes are clean". Ill bet whoever had a hard-on for testing in the u.s. organization is now wishing theyd kept their stupid mouth shut. Stewarts career is over. Thank god we got that dangerous cheater out of our pure, family-oriented sport!
Racer111
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6/20/2014 10:16am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 10:19am
Racer111 wrote:
See, that's where you are wrong. Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal...
See, that's where you are wrong.

Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus. The prescribed dose of the med makes him equal to normal, not better.
TripleFive wrote:
"[i]Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus.[/i]" Always? Every single prescription is legitimate? It's impossible to get a prescription without actually having ADHD? Is...
"Someone who is prescribed adderal, has trouble with focus."

Always? Every single prescription is legitimate? It's impossible to get a prescription without actually having ADHD?

Is there an objective ADHD test?



Docs who prescribe have even more strict guidelines than professional athletes. This is their job, living, life......They aren't just going to say here James, have some adderal, it works wonders. They wouldn't have a job any longer if it was that easy. They do have to run tests and diagnose. That's why docs go to school for 12 years.

There are some really stupid things on the banned list for WADA and USADA. I had a friend who's as straight laced as they come. He trained super hard to qualify for the Ironman World Championships and left it all out there. Had a great race and earned his spot to Kona. Took 2 800mg ibuprofen to ease the pain in his knees about 2 miles to go in the 140.6 mile race and pissed positive. (Yes, they test the top Age group athletes as well) He was crushed.

USADA and WADA are a joke as far as I'm concerned. People test positive for the dumbest shit that has no bearing on anything. They train and work hard and get a positive test and labeled a cheater and they haven't really cheated anyone.

We had the US Olympics going on in 2012 and instead of testing olympic athletes, Travis Tygart had such a hard on for nailing Lance, that's where all his focus was. And for what? What good really came of that? Did Lance REALLY cheat? The entire peloton was doped to the gills. It was a level playing field. So everyone that doped WITH Lance gets off, but Lance gets a lifetime ban? How's that true justice? 6 people who did the exact same thing get nothing, but the 7th guy Lance gets nailed to the cross. Why is there 7 years of the TDF not have a winner now? Because everyone that raced from 99-05 has pissed positive at some point or another. They couldn't give the wins to anyone.

So yes, Tygart does like to witchunt the top names in any sport. He doesn't care about the sports. He cares about his own fame and becoming the Eliot Ness of anti-doping.

If JS7 was truly intending to cheat, adderal is a poor choice. This whole thing is just the beginning. USADA likes BIG names. Tygart and Navitsky are ruthless. They will stop at nothing.
machine
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6/20/2014 10:16am
He will get another free pass, just like he did with the police impersonation deal. Nothing substantial will happen folks, don't get so worked up over the whole thing. All I know, is these JS fans would have had a field day with this if it were RV, with ASS406 leading the way. I could care less about the whole thing honestly, RV is still the champ...
Jarid332
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6/20/2014 10:18am
Fuck it I'm going car racing!

Oh wait.. Wrong issue.
mxb2
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6/20/2014 10:26am
machine wrote:
He will get another free pass, just like he did with the police impersonation deal. Nothing substantial will happen folks, don't get so worked up over...
He will get another free pass, just like he did with the police impersonation deal. Nothing substantial will happen folks, don't get so worked up over the whole thing. All I know, is these JS fans would have had a field day with this if it were RV, with ASS406 leading the way. I could care less about the whole thing honestly, RV is still the champ...
x2, but last resort pull the race card, lmao
JW381
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6/20/2014 10:27am
So is it confirmed that he is suspended for outdoors as well? I thought since it was an FIM event that he wouldn't be, but now it's sounding like he will be? I really hope not, he was just starting to catch fire. With 8 rounds to go, the championship could really heat up with three or four guys capable of winning every weekend. Free Stewie
6/20/2014 10:27am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 10:27am
Racer111 wrote:
Docs who prescribe have even more strict guidelines than professional athletes. This is their job, living, life......They aren't just going to say here James, have some...
Docs who prescribe have even more strict guidelines than professional athletes. This is their job, living, life......They aren't just going to say here James, have some adderal, it works wonders. They wouldn't have a job any longer if it was that easy. They do have to run tests and diagnose. That's why docs go to school for 12 years.

There are some really stupid things on the banned list for WADA and USADA. I had a friend who's as straight laced as they come. He trained super hard to qualify for the Ironman World Championships and left it all out there. Had a great race and earned his spot to Kona. Took 2 800mg ibuprofen to ease the pain in his knees about 2 miles to go in the 140.6 mile race and pissed positive. (Yes, they test the top Age group athletes as well) He was crushed.

USADA and WADA are a joke as far as I'm concerned. People test positive for the dumbest shit that has no bearing on anything. They train and work hard and get a positive test and labeled a cheater and they haven't really cheated anyone.

We had the US Olympics going on in 2012 and instead of testing olympic athletes, Travis Tygart had such a hard on for nailing Lance, that's where all his focus was. And for what? What good really came of that? Did Lance REALLY cheat? The entire peloton was doped to the gills. It was a level playing field. So everyone that doped WITH Lance gets off, but Lance gets a lifetime ban? How's that true justice? 6 people who did the exact same thing get nothing, but the 7th guy Lance gets nailed to the cross. Why is there 7 years of the TDF not have a winner now? Because everyone that raced from 99-05 has pissed positive at some point or another. They couldn't give the wins to anyone.

So yes, Tygart does like to witchunt the top names in any sport. He doesn't care about the sports. He cares about his own fame and becoming the Eliot Ness of anti-doping.

If JS7 was truly intending to cheat, adderal is a poor choice. This whole thing is just the beginning. USADA likes BIG names. Tygart and Navitsky are ruthless. They will stop at nothing.
If you think it's difficult to receive a 'script for Adderall you're very mistaken. Do you think it's difficult to get a prescription for medical marijuana?

I just graduated from a terminal degree program, I'd guess that between 30-40% of my graduating class has been diagnosed with an attention disorder. People were super open about the PEDs they were taking to study.
RandyS
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6/20/2014 10:29am
I hope this just turns out to be a case of Stewart/his camp being careless. But come on Stewart nut huggers, he failed a test that he should have know was going to test for something he was on. This isn't the white man coming down on the black man, and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he has a shot at the title. And if any other failed tests have been swept under the rug because of Monster those need to be brought to light.

As for the "you can't get a prescription for Adderall if you don't have ADHD" I hiope that was tongue in cheek. I was one of the Ritalin kids of the late 60s/early 70s. About 10 years ago I decided I wanted to try it as an adult after a friend who had never been diagnosed started taking it and said it turned his life/business around. I called my doctor and told him, he wrote me a prescription on the spot. I tried it a couple of days and decided I hated how it made me feel, so I sold the rest at the local high school.

Anyone who thinks you can't get a prescription for almost anything is naive.


































































That's a joke about selling it at the High School, it was actually Jr. High.
machine
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6/20/2014 10:29am
machine wrote:
He will get another free pass, just like he did with the police impersonation deal. Nothing substantial will happen folks, don't get so worked up over...
He will get another free pass, just like he did with the police impersonation deal. Nothing substantial will happen folks, don't get so worked up over the whole thing. All I know, is these JS fans would have had a field day with this if it were RV, with ASS406 leading the way. I could care less about the whole thing honestly, RV is still the champ...
mxb2 wrote:
x2, but last resort pull the race card, lmao
Laughing

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