What's happening at Team Honda?

robkinuk
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robkinuk
Edited Date/Time 2/26/2014 1:28pm
Once the powerhouse team in the pits, it seem's like Honda's SX efforts in 2014 have imploded with just one 3rd place podium from Barcia and Tomac well off the winner's race pace!

Anyone know why they are performing so poorly?
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TripleFive 2/24/2014 8:45am
2/24/2014 8:45am
Injuries.
ehr400
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ehr400 2/24/2014 8:45am
2/24/2014 8:45am
I think it is both sides of the pond. They havent done anything inthe GP's for quite some time either.
BobPA
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BobPA 2/24/2014 8:46am
2/24/2014 8:46am
TripleFive wrote:
Injuries.
+ terrible starts
dazzlindino 2/24/2014 8:57am
2/24/2014 8:57am Edited Date/Time 2/24/2014 8:57am
this will be 11 years straight, that Honda has not won sx big boy title....

The Shop

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Canerat
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Canerat 2/24/2014 8:58am
2/24/2014 8:58am
I think Barcia needs a fresh start, as in a new team. He has been struggling on the Honda for a while now and that cant be good for the confidence. Barcia would be a good fit at RCH.

Tomac is a rookie who started off on the wrong foot. A little time to settle back in and find his groove. He is a long term investment for Honda and should come good in time. Having said that, Honda needs to sort their bike out, not sure what it is but they look fat and bulky..

Canard....ummm, he needs to stay healthy and not crash so often.
JVT357
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JVT357 2/24/2014 8:58am
2/24/2014 8:58am
I honestly think the riders are not fully happy with the bikes. i really feel they are struggling with the bikes. I also wonder how different tomac would be riding had he never crashed with weimer
MotoX85
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MotoX85 2/24/2014 8:59am
2/24/2014 8:59am
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team. Honda use to buy all the champions in the past, never developing them, now they are just unable to do that anymore.
DownSouth
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DownSouth 2/24/2014 9:01am
2/24/2014 9:01am
TripleFive wrote:
Injuries.
BobPA wrote:
+ terrible starts
Last summer I seem to recall that team Honda ditched the factory hydraulic clutch they had been using in favor of a normal cable actuated system and Barcia and Canard said it was much better on starts. However lately Barcia has made several comments about bad starts and that it is not his fault and Honda is working on it.

Does anyone know if they are they still running the cable setup or did they go back to hydraulic?

And what is Barcia saying they are working on? Ignition/efi mapping for the start line mode?
wow123
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wow123 2/24/2014 9:45am
2/24/2014 9:45am
Kawa had 2 front runners
KTM has 2 front runners and 3 in the top 10
Suzuki has 1 top and 3 in the top 10?

Yamahe finding its feet

Honda in the dog house
tek14
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tek14 2/24/2014 9:49am
2/24/2014 9:49am
No one havent come out with details what went wrong with new crf450 frame. I know magazines are afraid to tell these things out like we seen with Yamaha 2010-2013 models(no one told loud what was wrong even many knew it).
Honda went 2013 all new frame to work together with airforks and havent been same since. (Reed, GPs and so on) Same time Kawasaki didnt rebuild frame for airforks. Biggest difference was around head tube, maybe flex or something isnt same as before.

About starts difficult to say because race engines have nothing to do with models they sell for public. Off the line its combination of tires, gearing, powerband, swingarm/linkage/mounting points (position/angle)/chain/ride position and so on.. what makes mechanical traction. Clutch they went to cable thinking hydraulic lever got different feel. There are no real upsides running cable but different feel and rider self adjustment (they used to do that since 85cc).
Dirtydane
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Dirtydane 2/24/2014 9:52am
2/24/2014 9:52am
Honda is the new yamaha.
OW38B
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OW38B 2/24/2014 9:55am
2/24/2014 9:55am
Ask the Boston Red Sox about the 86 year "Curse of the Bambino".............

They used to win all the time with this dude on the team......now not so much.

Ramrod
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Ramrod 2/24/2014 10:04am
2/24/2014 10:04am
Dirtydane wrote:
Honda is the new yamaha.
That's funny.
hammertime
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hammertime 2/24/2014 10:10am
2/24/2014 10:10am
The Guys are scared of the bike, you can see it. Stiff chassis and steep rake on the front end. it's a bummer.
500guy
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500guy 2/24/2014 10:21am
2/24/2014 10:21am
hammertime wrote:
The Guys are scared of the bike, you can see it. Stiff chassis and steep rake on the front end. it's a bummer.
And lets face it Honda hasn't hired "The Guy" since RC was with them.

I like all the Team Honda guy's and they are great, just not the #1 guy like RC, RV or now Dungey & Roczen.
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mauidex 2/24/2014 10:24am
2/24/2014 10:24am
well they got a chance now if contract news is true on kroc.............just break out the checkbook............before KTM kills them dead
mauidex
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mauidex 2/24/2014 10:25am
2/24/2014 10:25am
never heard what happened with Kehoe either????? they need Stanton to take over that program....
davistld01
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davistld01 2/24/2014 10:33am
2/24/2014 10:33am
Team Honda's basic racing philosophy has changed. Back in the day, they would throw money at the riders that they KNEW would be in the top-5 consistantly, and every race looked like a red freight train. The last known commodity that Honda has hired was RC. Since then they have basically hired hopefuls like Millsaps, Tedesco, Barcia & Canard. Good racers, to be sure, but far from the guys they used to hire. Team Honda used to be the team that every young racer aspired to be a part of...the "Dream Team". Sad to say, that's a thing of the past for the most part.

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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 2/24/2014 10:33am
2/24/2014 10:33am
There are 4, maybe 5, legitimate title contenders in the 450 class. None of them ride for Honda. That is what is happening.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/24/2014 10:33am
2/24/2014 10:33am
Something is definitely off with the bike. Tek 14 made some good points with his post.
moto314
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moto314 2/24/2014 10:52am
2/24/2014 10:52am
OW38B wrote:
Ask the Boston Red Sox about the 86 year "Curse of the Bambino"............. They used to win all the time with this dude on the team......now...
Ask the Boston Red Sox about the 86 year "Curse of the Bambino".............

They used to win all the time with this dude on the team......now not so much.

Stanton?
activeMX
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activeMX 2/24/2014 10:58am
2/24/2014 10:58am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2014 9:09am
MotoX85 wrote:
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team...
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team. Honda use to buy all the champions in the past, never developing them, now they are just unable to do that anymore.
.
activeMX
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activeMX 2/24/2014 11:01am
2/24/2014 11:01am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2014 9:09am
tek14 wrote:
No one havent come out with details what went wrong with new crf450 frame. I know magazines are afraid to tell these things out like we...
No one havent come out with details what went wrong with new crf450 frame. I know magazines are afraid to tell these things out like we seen with Yamaha 2010-2013 models(no one told loud what was wrong even many knew it).
Honda went 2013 all new frame to work together with airforks and havent been same since. (Reed, GPs and so on) Same time Kawasaki didnt rebuild frame for airforks. Biggest difference was around head tube, maybe flex or something isnt same as before.

About starts difficult to say because race engines have nothing to do with models they sell for public. Off the line its combination of tires, gearing, powerband, swingarm/linkage/mounting points (position/angle)/chain/ride position and so on.. what makes mechanical traction. Clutch they went to cable thinking hydraulic lever got different feel. There are no real upsides running cable but different feel and rider self adjustment (they used to do that since 85cc).
.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 2/24/2014 11:05am
2/24/2014 11:05am
Hmmmm no doubt that Factory Hondas doesnt SEEM to be on par with the other factory bikes, they have no correlation with the production bikes (we all know they are totally different bikes).

Perhaps the USA Honda team hasnt got much pull with Honda anymore like they used to when DeCoster was there?

Who knows, Honda wont really care, they still sell more bikes than any other manufacturer, thats because they are reliable and have a good sales/support network. and to be fair Honda bikes are more built for everyday riders not pros (hence why they dont win magazine shootouts anymore).

Will the results they are getting hurt their sales? No ....so dont expect anything to change. In saying that, rumour goes they are on the hunt for new top riders, Canard and Barcia's days could be numbered?
tek14
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tek14 2/24/2014 11:21am
2/24/2014 11:21am Edited Date/Time 2/24/2014 11:22am
tek14 wrote:
No one havent come out with details what went wrong with new crf450 frame. I know magazines are afraid to tell these things out like we...
No one havent come out with details what went wrong with new crf450 frame. I know magazines are afraid to tell these things out like we seen with Yamaha 2010-2013 models(no one told loud what was wrong even many knew it).
Honda went 2013 all new frame to work together with airforks and havent been same since. (Reed, GPs and so on) Same time Kawasaki didnt rebuild frame for airforks. Biggest difference was around head tube, maybe flex or something isnt same as before.

About starts difficult to say because race engines have nothing to do with models they sell for public. Off the line its combination of tires, gearing, powerband, swingarm/linkage/mounting points (position/angle)/chain/ride position and so on.. what makes mechanical traction. Clutch they went to cable thinking hydraulic lever got different feel. There are no real upsides running cable but different feel and rider self adjustment (they used to do that since 85cc).
activeMX wrote:
.
Huge changes are going to jump out at you. First is the CRF450R’s all-new air-fork front suspension. Nearly two pounds lighter than a coil-spring fork, it offers easier adjustment, less internal friction, and even better handling. Next, an all-new twin-spar aluminum frame. You’ll see some big changes in the steering-head area. That’s because the frame is designed specifically to work with the new forks.

just quote from Honda even its PR nonsense..
mototed 82 2/24/2014 11:26am
2/24/2014 11:26am
OW38B wrote:
Ask the Boston Red Sox about the 86 year "Curse of the Bambino"............. They used to win all the time with this dude on the team......now...
Ask the Boston Red Sox about the 86 year "Curse of the Bambino".............

They used to win all the time with this dude on the team......now not so much.

this guy here!!!! he put the scud on them , you can argue all you want about the riders picked for the team since, but there has been no shortage of coulda woulda shoulda ! barcia and tomac just the latest in a long line
MotoX85
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MotoX85 2/24/2014 11:53am
2/24/2014 11:53am
MotoX85 wrote:
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team...
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team. Honda use to buy all the champions in the past, never developing them, now they are just unable to do that anymore.
activeMX wrote:
.
Cranks, on the 08 450 Valves and heads on the 250
kiwifan
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kiwifan 2/24/2014 11:59am
2/24/2014 11:59am
MotoX85 wrote:
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team...
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team. Honda use to buy all the champions in the past, never developing them, now they are just unable to do that anymore.
activeMX wrote:
.
MotoX85 wrote:
Cranks, on the 08 450 Valves and heads on the 250
You realise we are talking about the Factory Team not Production bikes arent you? Well clearly you are not...
G Force
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G Force 2/24/2014 12:04pm
2/24/2014 12:04pm
MotoX85 wrote:
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team...
Bikes have basically been terrible since 2007. The Honda reliabilbity is now a distant memory and thus they have less money for a good race team. Honda use to buy all the champions in the past, never developing them, now they are just unable to do that anymore.
Ha ha! I love when dolts say Honda "Buys Championships", but when riders switch to other brands and win, it's all good.

Vital always delivers..!!
Camp332
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Camp332 2/24/2014 12:07pm
2/24/2014 12:07pm
Not sure what's happening at the Team, but I love my Honda CRF450.

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