Jimmy decotis hits out

2/19/2014 11:15pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I agree completely. WP40 is a perfect example. I'd also point out someone like Chris Blose. There are some die-hard MX/SX fans in Phoenix and with...
I agree completely. WP40 is a perfect example. I'd also point out someone like Chris Blose. There are some die-hard MX/SX fans in Phoenix and with him being the primary only serious contender out of AZ in the 450 class, I would think he has the potential to be very marketable. I know I'd buy his fan gear. There are many more ways to make money in this sport aside from winning races and getting purse money. It all starts with racing, but it's not like one has to be a top 5 guy to make a decent living in the business. Jimmy Albertson is another one in my opinion, very marketable personality. Josh Grant has the talent level and marketability to be very financially successful.

"Hope" isn't a strategy. Stop playing checkers, and start playing chess. These guys (every rider that makes a 450 main event) has the natural talent level to make it in the business IMO.
BAMX wrote:
I could actually see business opportunities for someone in the industry to run sites for the riders. You could even sell sponsor products from your site...
I could actually see business opportunities for someone in the industry to run sites for the riders. You could even sell sponsor products from your site. Example...If you like Peick's graphics, you could buy a set through his site and he gets a cut.
Someone actually did that years ago and made websites for the pro's and had basically every rider linked up to it. Can't remember what site it was, but it was the basic idea of what your talking about. I know a couple privateers that used his services and got sites made for free. The reason it didn't work is because the rider's didn't have money to help promote it and lets be honest, people say they will help buy/support the riders but never get around to it! The hardcore motocross supporters all donate some money, but not that many people really give a shit even though they pretend they do!
mxnick
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2/19/2014 11:41pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2014 11:56pm
BAMX wrote:
Other side here....They get ticket sales, parking, concessions, TV money, money from sponsors like Monster. Billionaires don't get that way because they are generous. The only...
Other side here....They get ticket sales, parking, concessions, TV money, money from sponsors like Monster. Billionaires don't get that way because they are generous. The only way to solve this is for the riders to stay home.
You are mostly Incorrect, or maybe misinformed.

TIckets: Feld gets maybe (??) 70% of ticket revenue, if they are lucky. Most stadiums get a % of the ticket sales, and it is double digit %. Plus Ticketmaster fee's for selling online (and using the Ticketmaster system) and the credit card fees as well as the IRS cut...you cant forget the IRS taking their respective share!

Parking: The Parking money almost always goes direct to stadium. Those guys you see collecting your $10 in the parking lot are not Feld Employes, they are stadium employees.

Concessions: Most all food and bev goes to the stadiums.

TV Money: TV Money? The only TV money thrown around is the money Feld spends on TV, and TV Production. And it aint cheap. For the record, there is NO TV money coming in - Feld pays to be on TV. They also pay for the production of the TV show we all get to watch each Saturday night as well. Some ads and sponsorship packages might offset the cost, but for sure it is not paid for in full.

Any idea how much TV costs to do? Lets estimate on the low side $4-5mm for the season, probably more for BOTH the buy and the production costs. Keep in mind you have a staff of maybe 65-75 (or more) just on TV production alone. Those two (2) TV 18 wheelers and the three sat trucks you see parked in the TV compound do not come cheap. Neither does TV time buy (meaning live TV time). The ads sold during commercial breaks do not come anywhere near to paying the costs of production and time buys.

It is easy to sit around and count someone else's money, but I think very few folks really have any idea just how much it really costs to put that whole show together, and bring this show into each of the major stadiums for 18 weekends of the year. And no one has mentioned how much they might pay in Insurance...

It is a tough situation, but I see Feld investing in the future in the sport by spreading the word and getting a few sold out stadiums...it would be great to see million dollar purses, but even when they do offer those (think Monster Cup, US Open, etc), not every rider shows up!
2/19/2014 11:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2014 11:53pm
Lewy wrote:
Not happy with the prize money. Thoughts? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/02/19/46212/s1200_image.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/02/19/46213/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Not happy with the prize money. Thoughts?



It doesn't really make it possible for a privateer to make money in the sport, but its no different anywhere around the World. I think guys...
It doesn't really make it possible for a privateer to make money in the sport, but its no different anywhere around the World. I think guys outside the top 15 have to understand it is a hobby and you have to live with it. It's always been like that.

Get a real job if you don't like it, because it ain't going to be different no matter what. Guys outside the top 15, does anyone really care if they are there or not?
MotoX85 wrote:
Dude you have got to be from another planet, "no one cares about the guys outside the top 15" really. I would pay twice as much...
Dude you have got to be from another planet, "no one cares about the guys outside the top 15" really. I would pay twice as much to watch Travis Pastrana get dead last, then pay $5 to watch Villopoto get first. You have got to be the biggest ass kisser I have ever read on here and you own/run a magazine. Do you expect people to buy your mag as journalism or brainwashed bullshit.

My God get a spine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't expect anyone to buy my mag, its FREE....hahaha. So you would rather watch the guy in last than the guy in first and you are calling me out on BS. You fool.
velocitygear
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2/19/2014 11:53pm
That Dave Prater guy, isn't he worth a Billion dollars, with a CAPITAL B? Hard to imagine the Director of Supercross, with those kind of resources, would be unable to rectify this situation!

Jimmy D- THANK YOU for calling it like it is.

The Shop

velocitygear
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2/19/2014 11:59pm
mxnick wrote:
You are mostly Incorrect, or maybe misinformed. TIckets: Feld gets maybe (??) 70% of ticket revenue, if they are lucky. Most stadiums get a % of...
You are mostly Incorrect, or maybe misinformed.

TIckets: Feld gets maybe (??) 70% of ticket revenue, if they are lucky. Most stadiums get a % of the ticket sales, and it is double digit %. Plus Ticketmaster fee's for selling online (and using the Ticketmaster system) and the credit card fees as well as the IRS cut...you cant forget the IRS taking their respective share!

Parking: The Parking money almost always goes direct to stadium. Those guys you see collecting your $10 in the parking lot are not Feld Employes, they are stadium employees.

Concessions: Most all food and bev goes to the stadiums.

TV Money: TV Money? The only TV money thrown around is the money Feld spends on TV, and TV Production. And it aint cheap. For the record, there is NO TV money coming in - Feld pays to be on TV. They also pay for the production of the TV show we all get to watch each Saturday night as well. Some ads and sponsorship packages might offset the cost, but for sure it is not paid for in full.

Any idea how much TV costs to do? Lets estimate on the low side $4-5mm for the season, probably more for BOTH the buy and the production costs. Keep in mind you have a staff of maybe 65-75 (or more) just on TV production alone. Those two (2) TV 18 wheelers and the three sat trucks you see parked in the TV compound do not come cheap. Neither does TV time buy (meaning live TV time). The ads sold during commercial breaks do not come anywhere near to paying the costs of production and time buys.

It is easy to sit around and count someone else's money, but I think very few folks really have any idea just how much it really costs to put that whole show together, and bring this show into each of the major stadiums for 18 weekends of the year. And no one has mentioned how much they might pay in Insurance...

It is a tough situation, but I see Feld investing in the future in the sport by spreading the word and getting a few sold out stadiums...it would be great to see million dollar purses, but even when they do offer those (think Monster Cup, US Open, etc), not every rider shows up!
Sorry, there is no excuse for those payouts, ABSOLUTELY no excuse. You cannot fabricate an excuse or pretend it's a "tough situation". Fear Greed!
2/20/2014 12:00am
That Dave Prater guy, isn't he worth a Billion dollars, with a CAPITAL B? Hard to imagine the Director of Supercross, with those kind of resources...
That Dave Prater guy, isn't he worth a Billion dollars, with a CAPITAL B? Hard to imagine the Director of Supercross, with those kind of resources, would be unable to rectify this situation!

Jimmy D- THANK YOU for calling it like it is.
Prater is obviously a lot smarter than Jimmy D...or not?
velocitygear
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2/20/2014 12:06am
Prater is obviously a lot smarter than Jimmy D...or not?
Does Praters intelligence somehow justify the situation?
mxnick
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2/20/2014 12:12am
Sorry, there is no excuse for those payouts, ABSOLUTELY no excuse. You cannot fabricate an excuse or pretend it's a "tough situation". Fear Greed!
Nowhere in my message was I making an excuse for the payouts.

I was simply correcting another posters message, which was heavy on the assumptions and short on real facts.

It is easy for people to sit around and count other people's money, but until you have all the facts on costs and outlays, it could be a worthless exorcise.

I just wanted to inject some facts for the sake of the conversation!

Having been a struggling pro-am rider myself, and a guy who paid $180 to race (or whatever it was back in 1996-2001) , I would love to see more money for privateers. But then I went to college, studied business and now understand how things work, and it is not as easy as many posters on the board would like to think.

Feel free to "Fear Greed" all you want!
The Rock
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2/20/2014 12:17am
JeepnMike wrote:
Does anybody know what a circus performer makes in a weekend? (honest question).
How about Cirque du Soleil..? I go to a gymnastics and acrobatics gym sometimes to practice flips and spins for wakeboarding... A number of the really...
How about Cirque du Soleil..? I go to a gymnastics and acrobatics gym sometimes to practice flips and spins for wakeboarding... A number of the really good gymnasts/acrobats there are in the circus arts / performance world.... If you get an apprentice position at Cirque where you are learning and not yet in a show...you might get $30K/year +room and board. Top top Cirque performers who are in shows, with lots of experience earn up to $250K/year + room, food, etc...but there are only a handful at that level. When they are doing a show run...they are of course usually in a place like Vegas or some other resort area. I have also heard many of these performers party it up hard in Vegas...they are sort of B level celebs there... Keep in mind that many of the Cirque performers from the gymnastics and acrobat side are ex elite athletes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v354j_1AJrk
How about Cirque du Soleil? I say I couldn't be more impressed with the athletes I've seen in two of their shows. Their is something almost Trials like in some of those performances where they can hold these incredible positions that takes a tremendous amount of energy.
velocitygear
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2/20/2014 12:18am
mxnick wrote:
Nowhere in my message was I making an excuse for the payouts. I was simply correcting another posters message, which was heavy on the assumptions and...
Nowhere in my message was I making an excuse for the payouts.

I was simply correcting another posters message, which was heavy on the assumptions and short on real facts.

It is easy for people to sit around and count other people's money, but until you have all the facts on costs and outlays, it could be a worthless exorcise.

I just wanted to inject some facts for the sake of the conversation!

Having been a struggling pro-am rider myself, and a guy who paid $180 to race (or whatever it was back in 1996-2001) , I would love to see more money for privateers. But then I went to college, studied business and now understand how things work, and it is not as easy as many posters on the board would like to think.

Feel free to "Fear Greed" all you want!
I've read a post or two in regard to the prices for advertising space, the banners around the track and so forth. Are you including those very large sums within your estimation? Unfortunately, in today's society, I will absolutely Fear Greed, as it is the ROOT of all evil! That's a given, sir!

I know it's easier than you make it out to believe. We're not talking astronomical sums, especially considering the resources available. It is not impossible, it is simply a matter of DESIRE!!!
2/20/2014 12:20am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 12:24am
Prater is obviously a lot smarter than Jimmy D...or not?
Does Praters intelligence somehow justify the situation?
It's been like this since day one of the sport beginning. This is nothing new and like I said, does anyone at the stadium apart from their family and team really care if the guys outside the top 10 or 15 are even there? Its like anything, media is the same. You know how many people in the media make no money, and wish they did. If I was a racer and making no money, I would be looking for another job, its a simple as that. Maybe Jimmy D needs to try racing another series and see if he is worth anything there? Ok, wait, he tried that.

People here complain, and say Jimmy is right, but does anyone actually do anything about it other than also complain. The answer is NO.
2/20/2014 12:28am
That Dave Prater guy, isn't he worth a Billion dollars, with a CAPITAL B? Hard to imagine the Director of Supercross, with those kind of resources...
That Dave Prater guy, isn't he worth a Billion dollars, with a CAPITAL B? Hard to imagine the Director of Supercross, with those kind of resources, would be unable to rectify this situation!

Jimmy D- THANK YOU for calling it like it is.
No Dave Prater is not the Billionaire owner, he is the director of SX
velocitygear
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2/20/2014 12:33am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 12:39am
motokiwi wrote:
No Dave Prater is not the Billionaire owner, he is the director of SX
I've read several times here on Vital, that Dave Prater was a Billionaire? Is that misinformation?

700+ Million is what I read...
The Rock
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2/20/2014 12:36am
Someone actually did that years ago and made websites for the pro's and had basically every rider linked up to it. Can't remember what site it...
Someone actually did that years ago and made websites for the pro's and had basically every rider linked up to it. Can't remember what site it was, but it was the basic idea of what your talking about. I know a couple privateers that used his services and got sites made for free. The reason it didn't work is because the rider's didn't have money to help promote it and lets be honest, people say they will help buy/support the riders but never get around to it! The hardcore motocross supporters all donate some money, but not that many people really give a shit even though they pretend they do!
Nail hit squarely on head. I also have to think that a lot of fans don't have the disposable income they had five years ago so that limits donations.

Last semblance of a rider group I remember was a Reed Langston deal circa 2008 that flamed out quickly when it became apparent cash was going to be required to launch the organization. Taking a step back for a moment if we consider things haven't changed up to now how conceivable is it that anything will ever change?
HenryA
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2/20/2014 12:38am
Payouts? Luongo laughs at payouts.
Hahah yeah, at least they are getting paid.
2/20/2014 12:43am
It's been like this since day one of the sport beginning. This is nothing new and like I said, does anyone at the stadium apart from...
It's been like this since day one of the sport beginning. This is nothing new and like I said, does anyone at the stadium apart from their family and team really care if the guys outside the top 10 or 15 are even there? Its like anything, media is the same. You know how many people in the media make no money, and wish they did. If I was a racer and making no money, I would be looking for another job, its a simple as that. Maybe Jimmy D needs to try racing another series and see if he is worth anything there? Ok, wait, he tried that.

People here complain, and say Jimmy is right, but does anyone actually do anything about it other than also complain. The answer is NO.
you make a good point on being a journalist, i spent a good deal of money traveling the world and going to races, i wrote for a couple of US based websites, and a couple of small magazines back here, i mostly did it because press passes were good to get as it got you great access,

i never got paid for these articles, and no one ever came and offered me any money to write for them, so I went back to my normal job,

basically I was not good enough, or committed enough to make it as a journalist, will winging about it on the internet change anything?? not at all, and unless Jimmy will get a heap of people to stand with him and do something, his comments on the internet wont do much either,
2/20/2014 1:29am
hammertime wrote:
I will say this, when I was 18 I was on the path to being a Canadian champion and a good contender in US nationals. Right...
I will say this, when I was 18 I was on the path to being a Canadian champion and a good contender in US nationals. Right at that moment my dad was still having to fork out in spite of my good results!! Also at that age I had a line on a good business plan, so I quit and went to work. Yes I made money, but to this day I still have regrets that I quit too early and left behind a lot of fun, friendships and potential memories behind. Motocross is a tough gig. No matter what happens or how many guys like Jimmy bitch, everybody but the Ryan's ect will be broke... And it will never change.
You just miss being young hammertime! If you had gone the other way, you would still be old(er) today. Just old and broke. You made the right decision.
Lewy
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2/20/2014 2:35am
EZZA 95B wrote:
It's a bit rotten for sure. Here, one of our main sports is Rugby League... The biggest meat-heads you could imagine. Yet another DUI for one...
It's a bit rotten for sure. Here, one of our main sports is Rugby League... The biggest meat-heads you could imagine.
Yet another DUI for one of our top players, (it's an ongoing thing, including domestic violence and more), they get paid pretty good money. We get 5 seconds of news for Chad Reed winning, or crashing. To the average Joe, they are just clowns.Sad
Oh oh that is the best thing I've heard all day Aussie footballers (nrl and afl) are well n truly over payed compared to these guys
2/20/2014 2:47am
sorry but that is sic!!! its totally unfair, and disgusting!!! it puts things in persective quick!! only maybe 10 guys are really making $$$$ at this. my son is gna ride, but I told him if u wanna be pro at anything play golf. you can work at burger king full time in your shift gear and make more than those guys a yr. And pretend your a pro mxer its safer . lol
Frodad78
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2/20/2014 5:25am
Really pathetic, Without privateers there are no races. Unless you want to see the field cut in half. What a shame.
Outsider
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2/20/2014 6:00am
A guy in the night show should not have to PAY to race... THAT is ridiculous.
resetjet
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2/20/2014 6:16am
Yes, pilot dude but a banner tow pilot or a flight instructor makes $10 an hour with a commercial license. Its all relative isn't it???
seth505
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2/20/2014 6:36am
Prater is obviously a lot smarter than Jimmy D...or not?
Does Praters intelligence somehow justify the situation?
It's been like this since day one of the sport beginning. This is nothing new and like I said, does anyone at the stadium apart from...
It's been like this since day one of the sport beginning. This is nothing new and like I said, does anyone at the stadium apart from their family and team really care if the guys outside the top 10 or 15 are even there? Its like anything, media is the same. You know how many people in the media make no money, and wish they did. If I was a racer and making no money, I would be looking for another job, its a simple as that. Maybe Jimmy D needs to try racing another series and see if he is worth anything there? Ok, wait, he tried that.

People here complain, and say Jimmy is right, but does anyone actually do anything about it other than also complain. The answer is NO.
Read what Jimmy wrote, he is bringing it up and asking others what they think...

So you can't bring up a topic without it being bitching? Jimmy is taking an all important first step which is communication and asking questions that need to be asked. I thought someone with a website who writes annoying articles would understand that communication is important.
jbomx363
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2/20/2014 6:50am
Same old story. Same old payouts. Same old defending Feld BS.

For those saying that Feld pays to put the show on tv and doesn't make a profit from TV.... prove it. I don't believe it one bit. However, hard to prove one way or the other as they are a private company. But what company in their right mind would keep doing it if there was no profits to be made?

Why any rider would race the 250 class is beyond me. Well not really.. most are getting paid in some fashion to make it worth their efforts.

Weston Peick skipped the 250 class.. someone ask him why.
BAMX
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2/20/2014 7:33am
mxnick wrote:
You are mostly Incorrect, or maybe misinformed. TIckets: Feld gets maybe (??) 70% of ticket revenue, if they are lucky. Most stadiums get a % of...
You are mostly Incorrect, or maybe misinformed.

TIckets: Feld gets maybe (??) 70% of ticket revenue, if they are lucky. Most stadiums get a % of the ticket sales, and it is double digit %. Plus Ticketmaster fee's for selling online (and using the Ticketmaster system) and the credit card fees as well as the IRS cut...you cant forget the IRS taking their respective share!

Parking: The Parking money almost always goes direct to stadium. Those guys you see collecting your $10 in the parking lot are not Feld Employes, they are stadium employees.

Concessions: Most all food and bev goes to the stadiums.

TV Money: TV Money? The only TV money thrown around is the money Feld spends on TV, and TV Production. And it aint cheap. For the record, there is NO TV money coming in - Feld pays to be on TV. They also pay for the production of the TV show we all get to watch each Saturday night as well. Some ads and sponsorship packages might offset the cost, but for sure it is not paid for in full.

Any idea how much TV costs to do? Lets estimate on the low side $4-5mm for the season, probably more for BOTH the buy and the production costs. Keep in mind you have a staff of maybe 65-75 (or more) just on TV production alone. Those two (2) TV 18 wheelers and the three sat trucks you see parked in the TV compound do not come cheap. Neither does TV time buy (meaning live TV time). The ads sold during commercial breaks do not come anywhere near to paying the costs of production and time buys.

It is easy to sit around and count someone else's money, but I think very few folks really have any idea just how much it really costs to put that whole show together, and bring this show into each of the major stadiums for 18 weekends of the year. And no one has mentioned how much they might pay in Insurance...

It is a tough situation, but I see Feld investing in the future in the sport by spreading the word and getting a few sold out stadiums...it would be great to see million dollar purses, but even when they do offer those (think Monster Cup, US Open, etc), not every rider shows up!
I think that you are the one who is misinformed. I never said that they get 100% of those revenues but they all factor in. Plus, you are way off on Feld paying to be on TV. That has been debunked here before. If they did pay to be on TV, they would be able to sell at least some of that commercial time to recoup. See link below.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/05/20/Media/Supe…
Canuck
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2/20/2014 7:50am
Instead of going with a "purse" system why not go with a set paid amount for the mains (like the LCQ). In the lites class this would mean $636 payed to each of the 22 guys in the main (since all Feld can afford is 14k !).
Since the top 10 or so riders are getting outside compensation of some sort (salary, bonuses, gear $$$ etc.) that make up the bulk of their earnings, the actual purse money that they are currently getting is just a drop in the bucket for them. However, $636 for the remaining 12 guys in the main could really help them make it to the next round....
jbomx363
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2/20/2014 7:54am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 7:54am
Canuck wrote:
Instead of going with a "purse" system why not go with a set paid amount for the mains (like the LCQ). In the lites class this...
Instead of going with a "purse" system why not go with a set paid amount for the mains (like the LCQ). In the lites class this would mean $636 payed to each of the 22 guys in the main (since all Feld can afford is 14k !).
Since the top 10 or so riders are getting outside compensation of some sort (salary, bonuses, gear $$$ etc.) that make up the bulk of their earnings, the actual purse money that they are currently getting is just a drop in the bucket for them. However, $636 for the remaining 12 guys in the main could really help them make it to the next round....
So... socialism is what you want?

Really..where is the incentive to Win in your scenario? In the hopes you get sponsorship money?

The riders need to group together and get FELD/AMA to pony up some real money.

Actually... it's quite simple... FELD is just taking advantage of a bunch of "kids with dreams".
rc4187
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2/20/2014 7:55am
I would like to clarify that I wasn't "defending" Feld in my previous post. Though I don't see a reason to really. Feld is supplying the vehicle for these guys to make their livelihood racing motorcycles. Some guys are able to do very well, even with results not in the top 5 or 10. Simply because those guys use the series to market themselves and their products. It takes more than making a main event to make good money. If they can't handle it... There's nothing dishonorable about working in another industry.

I think these guys just have a hard time letting go when they find out they've trained their whole life for something and they weren't good enough.

Until these guys stop showing up or Feld has some competition, it won't change. Racing motorcycles is an entertainment industry. Just like TV and movies... You can make loads of money being the star or very little standing in the background. Not everyone will make it.

Jimmy Decotis has more choices than he thinks. He doesn't have to race Supercross.
FreshTopEnd
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2/20/2014 7:58am
rc4187 wrote:
I would like to clarify that I wasn't "defending" Feld in my previous post. Though I don't see a reason to really. Feld is supplying the...
I would like to clarify that I wasn't "defending" Feld in my previous post. Though I don't see a reason to really. Feld is supplying the vehicle for these guys to make their livelihood racing motorcycles. Some guys are able to do very well, even with results not in the top 5 or 10. Simply because those guys use the series to market themselves and their products. It takes more than making a main event to make good money. If they can't handle it... There's nothing dishonorable about working in another industry.

I think these guys just have a hard time letting go when they find out they've trained their whole life for something and they weren't good enough.

Until these guys stop showing up or Feld has some competition, it won't change. Racing motorcycles is an entertainment industry. Just like TV and movies... You can make loads of money being the star or very little standing in the background. Not everyone will make it.

Jimmy Decotis has more choices than he thinks. He doesn't have to race Supercross.
^^^

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