I wonder how Honda feels?

JW381
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JW381 1/22/2014 12:34pm
1/22/2014 12:34pm
Not that I put too much into it, since the bikes we see on TV are so far removed from anything we would ride, but yeah the '13-'14 Honda hasn't looked too good.
chadwik74
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chadwik74 1/22/2014 12:36pm
1/22/2014 12:36pm
Last years bike is not the issue.....the way Chad rode A2 he could have won on Tates bike. He's hungry and has something to prove!
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JeepnMike 1/22/2014 3:13pm
1/22/2014 3:13pm
JamesOliver wrote:
Apart from Ryan Villopoto, the Kawi program has been pretty bad at producing fast 450 riders in my opinion. Look at some of their recent graduates...
Apart from Ryan Villopoto, the Kawi program has been pretty bad at producing fast 450 riders in my opinion. Look at some of their recent graduates...

Pourcel - 2 250 sx titles and would have had 2 250 mx titles too if it wasn't for some unbelievably bad luck. Then he was left with no 450 ride and look what happened.

Hansen - Lead 2 250 sx championships for a while if I remember correctly. Moved to Hart&Huntington 450 with poor results and now look where he is.

Weimer - Won a 250 sx title and has had some limited success on the 450.

Tickle - Won a 250 sx title and has had some limited success on the 450, now rides for Suzuki.

Rattray - No championships after 3 years? Now moved back to Europe to ride the GPs.

These are offset pretty heavily but Villopotos huge success but look at all the results I just listed and none of them have gone on to win a main event or overall on a Kawi 450 whereas Hondas most recent graduates, Canard and Barcia have both won main events on the 450.
I guess I kind of look at the Kawasaki amateur program on a broader spectrum. McGrath, Stewart, Carmichael, Villopoto. The majority of the top stars over the past 22 or so years have been products of Kawasaki's amateur program.
ihatemotocross 1/22/2014 3:45pm
1/22/2014 3:45pm
Kawi always seems to catch the outliers which brings up their status (RC, JS, RV, etc)

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mx5471
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mx5471 1/22/2014 5:02pm
1/22/2014 5:02pm
I don't think it's the bikes that count for most guys, but for the top ones, maybe it does. They like something about one bike over another. But anyway, I just read something , I think it was on Motocross Action about them testing the 2014 Honda 450, and they said the bike was a dog, 5hp less than the others.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/22/2014 5:15pm
1/22/2014 5:15pm
mx5471 wrote:
I don't think it's the bikes that count for most guys, but for the top ones, maybe it does. They like something about one bike over...
I don't think it's the bikes that count for most guys, but for the top ones, maybe it does. They like something about one bike over another. But anyway, I just read something , I think it was on Motocross Action about them testing the 2014 Honda 450, and they said the bike was a dog, 5hp less than the others.
Top guys dont race stock bikes that we buy, therefore the point is mute as to whether the bikes in our showroom have got anything to do with the results....even the top 30 guy isnt going to race a stock bike.

I can guarantee you that the Factory Hondas dont have 5 HP less than the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's.
rolandk
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rolandk 1/22/2014 5:25pm
1/22/2014 5:25pm
I'm not sure the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" applies these days. Suzuki has done fairly well in the recent past with Dungey and Millsaps and now has Stewart who is arguably the most well known mx racer on the planet, and they don't seem to sell many bikes.
JW381
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JW381 1/22/2014 6:33pm
1/22/2014 6:33pm
mx5471 wrote:
I don't think it's the bikes that count for most guys, but for the top ones, maybe it does. They like something about one bike over...
I don't think it's the bikes that count for most guys, but for the top ones, maybe it does. They like something about one bike over another. But anyway, I just read something , I think it was on Motocross Action about them testing the 2014 Honda 450, and they said the bike was a dog, 5hp less than the others.
kiwifan wrote:
Top guys dont race stock bikes that we buy, therefore the point is mute as to whether the bikes in our showroom have got anything to...
Top guys dont race stock bikes that we buy, therefore the point is mute as to whether the bikes in our showroom have got anything to do with the results....even the top 30 guy isnt going to race a stock bike.

I can guarantee you that the Factory Hondas dont have 5 HP less than the KTM/Yamaha/Kawasaki's.
I think that's why he said "But anyway".
JW381
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JW381 1/22/2014 6:34pm
1/22/2014 6:34pm
rolandk wrote:
I'm not sure the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" applies these days. Suzuki has done fairly well in the recent past with Dungey and...
I'm not sure the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" applies these days. Suzuki has done fairly well in the recent past with Dungey and Millsaps and now has Stewart who is arguably the most well known mx racer on the planet, and they don't seem to sell many bikes.
I agree. I think it's more like "dominate the 80's, sell Monday thru Friday until the end of time".
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JLO42 1/22/2014 8:05pm
1/22/2014 8:05pm
I would argue Hondas amateur credibility. A good portion of the top amateurs at Loretta's and the amateur all-stars at the monster cup were riding red
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Aaryn234 1/22/2014 8:15pm
1/22/2014 8:15pm
kiwifan wrote:
Honda will care that they are not winning but with only 1 top rider out there then hardly fair to say they are bad bikes. Honda...
Honda will care that they are not winning but with only 1 top rider out there then hardly fair to say they are bad bikes.

Honda I am sure will be patting Reed on the back saying good job, if you TRULY believe that ALL of Reed's 2013 problems were down to the bike then you are obviously got your blinkers on.

Honda sells more MX bikes than any other manufacturer, so I am pretty sure that although they are concerned that they havent won a round this year (and for God's sake we are only rd 3!!!!!) they are happy to see a lot of sales, Honda sells because they make reliable pretty fast bikes, sure at the hands of good riders others might be faster but they have a good package...and this comes from a KTM rider.

I am not a Reed fan at all, but good on him....he has started well.....sure others have crashed or been injured but lets see how the rest of the races go, great season thus far!!!
I thought you were going to get through a full post without taking a jab at Reed, but nope had to sneak it in the last paragraph.

You did not need the first seven words in your last paragraph either, I think that has been clear all off season Smile

Certainly has not been Honda's year in the big bike class so far, but killing in the 250 class and have the points lead.
JLO42
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JLO42 1/22/2014 8:25pm
1/22/2014 8:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2014 8:32pm
Realistically how many people buy bikes based on what the top racer is running? I think it comes more to quality and dealer support. It may hold true for the younger riders who wish to emulate their favorite rider, but those who purchase new mx bikes but largely on value whether it be from the dealer or machine
bandwagon
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bandwagon 1/22/2014 10:16pm
1/22/2014 10:16pm
Probably not all that bad considering dirt bike sales are only a small slice of the Honda's empire
shredder22 1/22/2014 10:17pm
1/22/2014 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2014 10:19pm
JeepnMike wrote:
This is an honest question, but how good is Honda about supporting the amateurs and building their future champions nowadays? I know Kawasaki has this one...
This is an honest question, but how good is Honda about supporting the amateurs and building their future champions nowadays? I know Kawasaki has this one well figured out, Suzuki used to be pretty good about it. Maybe that is part of their problem? I can't recall the last young phenom came from Honda. I know Geico has their hands on this a bit, but not the same as like Kawasaki or Suzuki. Hopefully I am not talking too far out of my ass here.
Team Green and PC used to be the best deal for young rookies by far, but as of now I think Geico Honda has them covered. For the last couple years they've really been signing a lot of the best young riders. PC is putting a lot of their hope in AC. Geico has Biscelgia this year and they have Hampshire and Jordan Smith still in the amateurs. Both of those guys rip. Even Star Yamaha is getting a lot of talent in Jeremy Martin, Cooper Webb. Star has Aaron Plessinger coming up next year too. If anything I think PC has slipped a lot. Suzuki has no 250 effort right now. KTM has Rockstar and their Factory team 250's. For a young blue chip prospect signing with a team for his rookie deal, I'd have to think Geico would at least be there with PC. Plus from what I've heard, these other teams are all signing their guys at a young age and locking them up for the future, which supposedly Mitch at PC has refused to do, except with AC. It used to work okay because PC dominated, but with the way things are looking lately, maybe it's time for Mitch to take a page out of Honda's book.
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Brent 1/22/2014 10:53pm
1/22/2014 10:53pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2014 10:55pm
Stupid twin exhausts.

Honda lost a little of their credibility back in 07 (?) when they brought out that ridiculous twin pipe 250f and tried to convince every one that it was real engineering, and not their marketing department jumping the shark.

Twin pipes go away for a few years, then some marketing guy with a burr up his ass convinces management to try it again. Hondas ad slogan for for those things could be - "Twin Exhausts - This time we really mean it !"

Hey Honda, how about fixing those air forks and taking the dive out of the front ends instead of focusing on twin exhausts?

go to the local tracks around here and its all green and orange now, five years ago it was mostly red.
Pollock580 1/22/2014 10:54pm
1/22/2014 10:54pm
Lots of people talking about the old adage 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' being out of date. That seems to be KTMs marketing base and working quite well for them? I wouldn't to too quick to think results don't equal sales.

Honda will be fine, they don't have a whole lot of representation in the 450 class at the moment with half of their stars being out. They have great representation in the 250 class and great results along with it.
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kiwifan 1/22/2014 11:14pm
1/22/2014 11:14pm
kiwifan wrote:
Honda will care that they are not winning but with only 1 top rider out there then hardly fair to say they are bad bikes. Honda...
Honda will care that they are not winning but with only 1 top rider out there then hardly fair to say they are bad bikes.

Honda I am sure will be patting Reed on the back saying good job, if you TRULY believe that ALL of Reed's 2013 problems were down to the bike then you are obviously got your blinkers on.

Honda sells more MX bikes than any other manufacturer, so I am pretty sure that although they are concerned that they havent won a round this year (and for God's sake we are only rd 3!!!!!) they are happy to see a lot of sales, Honda sells because they make reliable pretty fast bikes, sure at the hands of good riders others might be faster but they have a good package...and this comes from a KTM rider.

I am not a Reed fan at all, but good on him....he has started well.....sure others have crashed or been injured but lets see how the rest of the races go, great season thus far!!!
Aaryn234 wrote:
I thought you were going to get through a full post without taking a jab at Reed, but nope had to sneak it in the last...
I thought you were going to get through a full post without taking a jab at Reed, but nope had to sneak it in the last paragraph.

You did not need the first seven words in your last paragraph either, I think that has been clear all off season Smile

Certainly has not been Honda's year in the big bike class so far, but killing in the 250 class and have the points lead.
awww...i didnt criticise him, I just said i was not a fan and good on him, whats wrong with that??? I look forward to critiquing all your posts as well :-)

p.s. they dont have the points lead in the 250 class, KTM has with Anderson ...yay!!!

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lostboy819 1/22/2014 11:20pm
1/22/2014 11:20pm
Pollock580 wrote:
Lots of people talking about the old adage 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' being out of date. That seems to be KTMs marketing base and...
Lots of people talking about the old adage 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' being out of date. That seems to be KTMs marketing base and working quite well for them? I wouldn't to too quick to think results don't equal sales.

Honda will be fine, they don't have a whole lot of representation in the 450 class at the moment with half of their stars being out. They have great representation in the 250 class and great results along with it.
Carmichael was winning everything on a Suzuki but it didn't turn into a win on Sunday buy on Monday for the RMZ. Suzuki still had dismal sales when RC was spanking everyone on a yellow bike.
Black Diesel Bomber 1/22/2014 11:21pm
1/22/2014 11:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/22/2014 11:21pm
Honda still exists? Last one I noticed one of any significance had a #4 on it….
jake_ktm100 1/23/2014 12:03am
1/23/2014 12:03am
you're forgetting how good seelys going.
Wetterstrand 1/23/2014 1:01am
1/23/2014 1:01am
kiwifan wrote:
awww...i didnt criticise him, I just said i was not a fan and good on him, whats wrong with that??? I look forward to critiquing all...
awww...i didnt criticise him, I just said i was not a fan and good on him, whats wrong with that??? I look forward to critiquing all your posts as well :-)

p.s. they dont have the points lead in the 250 class, KTM has with Anderson ...yay!!!
You are actually wrong.
Honda and Seely has the points lead because Anderson was docked two positions after jumping that cross flag at A2.
They are 1 point apart.
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AP_151 1/23/2014 8:50am
1/23/2014 8:50am
rcm406 wrote:
Reed struggles all of 2013 on that Honda, and now 3 races in 2014 he has a 3rd and a 1st on the Kawi! It doesn't...
Reed struggles all of 2013 on that Honda, and now 3 races in 2014 he has a 3rd and a 1st on the Kawi! It doesn't make Honda look very good! And on top of that, Barcia is not living up to expectations, and Canard and Tomac are out hurt.
Honda as a company, they don't care. The team manager in our small little sport is kicking himself though.
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jasen.bougher 1/23/2014 10:14am
1/23/2014 10:14am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2014 10:34am
rolandk wrote:
I'm not sure the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" applies these days. Suzuki has done fairly well in the recent past with Dungey and...
I'm not sure the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" applies these days. Suzuki has done fairly well in the recent past with Dungey and Millsaps and now has Stewart who is arguably the most well known mx racer on the planet, and they don't seem to sell many bikes.
.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/23/2014 12:27pm
1/23/2014 12:27pm
kiwifan wrote:
awww...i didnt criticise him, I just said i was not a fan and good on him, whats wrong with that??? I look forward to critiquing all...
awww...i didnt criticise him, I just said i was not a fan and good on him, whats wrong with that??? I look forward to critiquing all your posts as well :-)

p.s. they dont have the points lead in the 250 class, KTM has with Anderson ...yay!!!
Wetterstrand wrote:
You are actually wrong. Honda and Seely has the points lead because Anderson was docked two positions after jumping that cross flag at A2. They are...
You are actually wrong.
Honda and Seely has the points lead because Anderson was docked two positions after jumping that cross flag at A2.
They are 1 point apart.
oh my bad, I did not know that happened !!! shame!
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/23/2014 12:29pm
1/23/2014 12:29pm
Brent wrote:
Stupid twin exhausts. Honda lost a little of their credibility back in 07 (?) when they brought out that ridiculous twin pipe 250f and tried to...
Stupid twin exhausts.

Honda lost a little of their credibility back in 07 (?) when they brought out that ridiculous twin pipe 250f and tried to convince every one that it was real engineering, and not their marketing department jumping the shark.

Twin pipes go away for a few years, then some marketing guy with a burr up his ass convinces management to try it again. Hondas ad slogan for for those things could be - "Twin Exhausts - This time we really mean it !"

Hey Honda, how about fixing those air forks and taking the dive out of the front ends instead of focusing on twin exhausts?

go to the local tracks around here and its all green and orange now, five years ago it was mostly red.
what a load of crap...shesshh....look even I know the reason why Honda went to Twin exhausts ....local track sdepend on local shops/support ....in my area is orange too which suits me fine but most other areas i know of are still red
neverwasfastenuf 1/23/2014 3:55pm
1/23/2014 3:55pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Have you seen his gear at the first 3 rounds? Would you blame him if he spent every waking moment trying to get out of his...
Have you seen his gear at the first 3 rounds? Would you blame him if he spent every waking moment trying to get out of his gear contract?
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