Roczen ?

Moens_Andy 10/21/2013 2:24pm
10/21/2013 2:24pm
StartedTooLate wrote:
There is a lot that goes into a riders performance on a given day. Equipment. Starts. Health. ":Vibe" During practice and the 1st two motos..Elis dad...
There is a lot that goes into a riders performance on a given day. Equipment. Starts. Health. ":Vibe" During practice and the 1st two motos..Elis dad was insistent that the rear of the bike was not right . They finally changed it for the 3rd moto...and the bike was much better. The only weakness relative to KR in Eli's riding is his starts.

Moto 1 - Start P11
Moto 2 - Start P12
Moto3 - Start P6

What happened in moto 3? He beat KRoc. ET also set FAST LAP in the final moto. Faster than JS and Dungey.

KRoc 4-4-4
ET 5-6-3

Considering his starts...there is little evidence KR is suddenly on a different level to ET.

As for MXoN...you can not discount the difficulty in flying half way around the world...to a strange land...with different bike rules...and racing on a new track. Just a nonsensical comparison.

As for PURE RAW speed....we have NEVER seen KR do what we have seen RV, JS, ET and BB do...put down laps that are just on another level speed wise.... 2s, 3s, even 4s a lap faster than everyone else on track. He just does not have that. You could see it outdoors. When ET gets to that speed...he literally rides the track different than everyone else. He hits obstacles different.

Prediction - ET will win a race in SX in 2014. KR will not. But KR will finish higher in the points...due to consistency. In the outdoors...ET will threaten RV at times...perhaps beating him a few times. He will finish well ahead of KR in the points outdoors.
Totaly agree with you on this ET clearly has more raw speed than Kroc but has problems with his starts.
overthebars39 10/21/2013 2:28pm
10/21/2013 2:28pm
peelout wrote:
i can't wait to see Roczen after the Aldon Baker treatment... i honestly think he will beat Dungey this year and be the top KTM guy
That's exactly what i was thinking when i saw he picked up Aldon. The kid is only 19 and already hanging it out with the big boy's, he may be just that little bit short at the moment but he is the one that can evolve tremendously in the next few years.

But the season has not even started, for all we know Tomac could spank the KTM's and play follow the leader on JS and RV.
overthebars39 10/21/2013 2:33pm
10/21/2013 2:33pm
Titan1 wrote:
I think its funny that all the "euro's" think that a victory for Roczen is somehow a notch in the belt of the GP's being a...
I think its funny that all the "euro's" think that a victory for Roczen is somehow a notch in the belt of the GP's being a superior series. LOL...
Nah, the only thing that's funny is that allot of USA fanatics claimed Kenny would not get further then a top 5 and return home with a sore butt. Now you enjoy that sore butt while trying to stuff that GP vs AMA crap in there. And as Andy said, go dig in the bin for some of those crap threads, leave this one as it is.
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ocscottie 10/21/2013 2:35pm
10/21/2013 2:35pm
2014 SX is gonna fucking rock!

Can we all just agree on that? Whistling

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Mxdnusa
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Mxdnusa 10/21/2013 2:35pm
10/21/2013 2:35pm
Zu I think the op made a good point. Ken is being overlooked right now. Not sure if it's cause he's euro or fom past instances where he appeared to quit or not give 100% or whatever the reasoning. Like all racers he has something to prove before the bandwagon gets full.
overthebars39 10/21/2013 2:39pm
10/21/2013 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2013 2:40pm
Maybe overlooked due to all the 'JS7 won again' and 'jokerlane incident' crazes?
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philG 10/21/2013 2:44pm
10/21/2013 2:44pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Okay, I'm open minded about this. Tell us how Roczen was faster than Stewart......
philG wrote:
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it. Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV...
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it.

Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV, KRoc did his best to take it to Stewart. A good race , looking forward to Anahiem
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big...
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big jump.

Kenny rode great, just awesome. Not the first time in that class, either. But don't taint that with hyperbole that doesn't stand up.
Stewart had a line that RC said was worth a second a lap , but Kroc would get right back on him over the lap, to only lose it again .. he dropped off on the last 2 laps , and got mugged by the Dungey / Tomac battle, for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected, once Stewart passed him i expected Kroc to drop off , but he didnt , and kept Stewart honest for a fair while.

I do hope Stewart can build on this , and not become another Reed, a nearly there guy who we want to back at the front.

You have to say that we havent had many bar to bar races this year , i get the feeling that isnt going to be the case for 2014
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ayearinmx 10/21/2013 2:46pm
10/21/2013 2:46pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2013 2:47pm
probably not the right thread for it, but "ET3" has some awesome graphic design/logo potential.... just hope he doesn't hire the same guys who did JS7 Entertainment or whatever it was

oh and roczen kicks ass... but only because i'm a euro
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ocscottie 10/21/2013 2:52pm
10/21/2013 2:52pm
PhilG: for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected

Did you miss the last TWO years of SX?

....and im about the biggest KROC fan on the planet. But c'mon man...he rode the big boy class the last 2 years on the opposite coast and did really well. (on a 350)

I am really looking fwd to how much he improves on the AB program and getting the HELL OUT of the awful state that is known to chew riders up and spit them out.
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peelout 10/21/2013 2:58pm
10/21/2013 2:58pm
Mxdnusa wrote:
Zu I think the op made a good point. Ken is being overlooked right now. Not sure if it's cause he's euro or fom past instances...
Zu I think the op made a good point. Ken is being overlooked right now. Not sure if it's cause he's euro or fom past instances where he appeared to quit or not give 100% or whatever the reasoning. Like all racers he has something to prove before the bandwagon gets full.
yep.

the last guy that i would be overlooking is the guy that won a 250 SX championship, led more than half of the 250 mx championship in his second try, won his 4th straight MX2 overall at the MXdN while handing our guys their asses, and took 3rd in the MEC in his first race on a 450.

pretty hard to over look that guy, bros
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PressPassP 10/21/2013 2:59pm
10/21/2013 2:59pm
Kenny has definately done the right thing with this Baker move and getting out of Cali,with all due respect,next season could pan out and show that he's been a bit of a tourist having fun over there these past 2 years!

In Europe it was Everts and co that he was under,that must speak for something afterall Herlings has been well and truly reigned in.it's going to be a great season next year if the MEC is anything to go by,the 450 is a different animal,him and Tomac are looking on course to mix it upfront
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philG 10/21/2013 3:12pm
10/21/2013 3:12pm
ocscottie wrote:
PhilG: [i]for a [b]first time 450 ride[/b] , it was more than i expected[/i] Did you miss the last TWO years of SX? ....and im about...
PhilG: for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected

Did you miss the last TWO years of SX?

....and im about the biggest KROC fan on the planet. But c'mon man...he rode the big boy class the last 2 years on the opposite coast and did really well. (on a 350)

I am really looking fwd to how much he improves on the AB program and getting the HELL OUT of the awful state that is known to chew riders up and spit them out.
so you tell me , in your post , that the races he did the past 2 years were on a 350.... and i said it was his first time 450 ride... which bit of my statement is incorrect.

I am well aware he has ridden the 450 class... but never on a 450..
ButteryWaffles 10/21/2013 4:04pm
10/21/2013 4:04pm
Didnt Roczen beat Tomac when they met up at Daytona last year too? I said it before and I'll say it again, Kenny will be the better racer on the 450. He handles pressure and with Aldon Baker added into there and he's going to be a real threat at some point during the series. I'll give it a few races before he finds his groove.
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Park Boys 10/21/2013 4:26pm
10/21/2013 4:26pm
ocscottie wrote:
PhilG: [i]for a [b]first time 450 ride[/b] , it was more than i expected[/i] Did you miss the last TWO years of SX? ....and im about...
PhilG: for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected

Did you miss the last TWO years of SX?

....and im about the biggest KROC fan on the planet. But c'mon man...he rode the big boy class the last 2 years on the opposite coast and did really well. (on a 350)

I am really looking fwd to how much he improves on the AB program and getting the HELL OUT of the awful state that is known to chew riders up and spit them out.
philG wrote:
so you tell me , in your post , that the races he did the past 2 years were on a 350.... and i said it...
so you tell me , in your post , that the races he did the past 2 years were on a 350.... and i said it was his first time 450 ride... which bit of my statement is incorrect.

I am well aware he has ridden the 450 class... but never on a 450..
German GP last year he rode a 450 to second place behind the Sicilian assassin.
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Vonripper450 10/21/2013 4:28pm
10/21/2013 4:28pm
ButteryWaffles wrote:
Didnt Roczen beat Tomac when they met up at Daytona last year too? I said it before and I'll say it again, Kenny will be the...
Didnt Roczen beat Tomac when they met up at Daytona last year too? I said it before and I'll say it again, Kenny will be the better racer on the 450. He handles pressure and with Aldon Baker added into there and he's going to be a real threat at some point during the series. I'll give it a few races before he finds his groove.
A simple google search shows otherwise.
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APLMAN99 10/21/2013 5:05pm
10/21/2013 5:05pm
philG wrote:
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it. Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV...
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it.

Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV, KRoc did his best to take it to Stewart. A good race , looking forward to Anahiem
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big...
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big jump.

Kenny rode great, just awesome. Not the first time in that class, either. But don't taint that with hyperbole that doesn't stand up.
philG wrote:
Stewart had a line that RC said was worth a second a lap , but Kroc would get right back on him over the lap, to...
Stewart had a line that RC said was worth a second a lap , but Kroc would get right back on him over the lap, to only lose it again .. he dropped off on the last 2 laps , and got mugged by the Dungey / Tomac battle, for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected, once Stewart passed him i expected Kroc to drop off , but he didnt , and kept Stewart honest for a fair while.

I do hope Stewart can build on this , and not become another Reed, a nearly there guy who we want to back at the front.

You have to say that we havent had many bar to bar races this year , i get the feeling that isnt going to be the case for 2014
So even though Roczen was slower, and RC pointed it out, he was still faster? Damn, are you sure you aren't a US Congressman? That's the only imaginable way I could see you believing that.

As FTE said, don't make excuses for Roczen like that. He's an amazing talent that has tons of fans no matter which side of the pond you look.
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davistld01 10/21/2013 5:13pm
10/21/2013 5:13pm
Kenny has made the two best moves of his career to hire Aldon Baker, and to move to Florida. He's spent the last few years doing his Dean Wilson impression getting to be a Cali-boy and playing in the 250's. Now it's time to scrap all that shit and get serious.

That said...I see KR as a dang near guaranteed podium in 2014. He looked great at MEC.
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machine 10/21/2013 5:23pm
10/21/2013 5:23pm
Sully22 wrote:
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming...
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming from a HUGE Tomac fan. for some reason i just think Eli is one of those guys that's a 250 (4 stroke) specialist, or what used to be a 125 (2 stroke) specialist...kinda like Lamson was, or Ramsey, or some of the other guys that did well on the tiddlers.
yep...

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Sloaner104 10/21/2013 5:25pm
10/21/2013 5:25pm
Sully22 wrote:
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming...
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming from a HUGE Tomac fan. for some reason i just think Eli is one of those guys that's a 250 (4 stroke) specialist, or what used to be a 125 (2 stroke) specialist...kinda like Lamson was, or Ramsey, or some of the other guys that did well on the tiddlers.
Pretty bold statement there about Tomac possibly not living up to the hype in the premier class I think the exact opposite he's got the size and probably the strength to go with it his time will come but not without better starts
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kiwifan 10/21/2013 5:46pm
10/21/2013 5:46pm
my ONLY concern over K-ROC is his stamina, on 250's he showed weakness, on a 450 he will be worked even harder, his new trainer will hopefully help overcome that ....I agree with OC, lets agree 2014 will be a goodie.

Wait for the threads to start on those top riders who only get a 5th or 6th in a stacked field, they will say those riders are over the hill or not in the same league, then next race those 5th or 6th riders will win...might be that kind of season.
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ocscottie 10/21/2013 5:52pm
10/21/2013 5:52pm
"my ONLY concern over K-ROC is his stamina,"

Aldon will take care of that.
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stantdm 10/21/2013 5:56pm
10/21/2013 5:56pm
I think Tomac will do just fine in the big bike wars. His fitness is good and his speed is more than good. If he figures out how to get a start he will be tough. A lot of guys are going to be tough next year too. Roczen, Villopoto, Dungey, and on and on. We are going to be happy with the racing I would think.
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Sully22 10/21/2013 6:07pm
10/21/2013 6:07pm
Sully22 wrote:
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming...
K-ROC is going to be one bad dude in the big boy class. unfortunately, I don't think ET3 will do as well, and this is coming from a HUGE Tomac fan. for some reason i just think Eli is one of those guys that's a 250 (4 stroke) specialist, or what used to be a 125 (2 stroke) specialist...kinda like Lamson was, or Ramsey, or some of the other guys that did well on the tiddlers.
Sloaner104 wrote:
Pretty bold statement there about Tomac possibly not living up to the hype in the premier class I think the exact opposite he's got the size...
Pretty bold statement there about Tomac possibly not living up to the hype in the premier class I think the exact opposite he's got the size and probably the strength to go with it his time will come but not without better starts
I would love nothing more than for ET to prove that wrong and win everything...like i said I'm a HUGE ET3 fan, I just haven't really seen anything from him yet on the 450, while on the other hand he seems almost untouchable on the 250. He does things on a 250 that make me shake my head in disbelief. I realize he does not have a full season on the 450 yet, but from what I've seen so far I give K-ROC the edge on the 450. If i keep my expectations low and then he goes out and kills it I'll be way stoked :-)

Also, just like what Scottie said....next year is gonna fucking rock
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Lefty Right 10/21/2013 6:22pm
10/21/2013 6:22pm
philG wrote:
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it. Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV...
he was pulling back everything that Stewart gained by doing the big jump....... even RC mentioned it.

Was impressed by Stewart, he took it to RV, KRoc did his best to take it to Stewart. A good race , looking forward to Anahiem
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big...
Umm, he ended up forth in a race he holeshotted, finishing behind Dungey and Tomac. Sorry, that's not pulling back everything Stewart gained on the big jump.

Kenny rode great, just awesome. Not the first time in that class, either. But don't taint that with hyperbole that doesn't stand up.
philG wrote:
Stewart had a line that RC said was worth a second a lap , but Kroc would get right back on him over the lap, to...
Stewart had a line that RC said was worth a second a lap , but Kroc would get right back on him over the lap, to only lose it again .. he dropped off on the last 2 laps , and got mugged by the Dungey / Tomac battle, for a first time 450 ride , it was more than i expected, once Stewart passed him i expected Kroc to drop off , but he didnt , and kept Stewart honest for a fair while.

I do hope Stewart can build on this , and not become another Reed, a nearly there guy who we want to back at the front.

You have to say that we havent had many bar to bar races this year , i get the feeling that isnt going to be the case for 2014
At any time James could have stepped it up but he didn't need to because he was not being challenged for the lead Whistling
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sharkey 10/21/2013 7:02pm
10/21/2013 7:02pm
peelout wrote:
i can't wait to see Roczen after the Aldon Baker treatment... i honestly think he will beat Dungey this year and be the top KTM guy
I was thinking that same thing
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Wright_36 10/21/2013 8:23pm
10/21/2013 8:23pm
ButteryWaffles wrote:
Didnt Roczen beat Tomac when they met up at Daytona last year too? I said it before and I'll say it again, Kenny will be the...
Didnt Roczen beat Tomac when they met up at Daytona last year too? I said it before and I'll say it again, Kenny will be the better racer on the 450. He handles pressure and with Aldon Baker added into there and he's going to be a real threat at some point during the series. I'll give it a few races before he finds his groove.
Tomac caught and passed roczen in the Daytona main event. Tomac's biggest issue is his starts and he always takes a little while to get into his groove. Roczen has awesome starts and is fast immediately which is really going to help his odds in supercross. IMO Tomac is faster and there is allot of evidence to back that up. I can't think of a time that Roczen has caught and passed Tomac that wasnt in the first lap, and yet Tomac has done it to Roczen more times than I can count.
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JeepnMike 10/21/2013 9:47pm
10/21/2013 9:47pm
Moens_Andy wrote:
WTF r you talking about, i'm just a guy with the opinion that you should give credit where credit is due nothing more and nothing less...
WTF r you talking about, i'm just a guy with the opinion that you should give credit where credit is due nothing more and nothing less.

You r the only one thats talking Gp's Euro ish here so if you want another topic with shitloads on comment where euro's vs americans and AMA vs GP go to thread page 400 or something i'm sure you'll find some old dusty threads where you can enjoy yourself .

thanks for your time though
..................... Says the Belgian on an American SX forum in a thread he started about a German.. (or something like that). lol
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kiwifan 10/22/2013 1:30am
10/22/2013 1:30am
ocscottie wrote:
"my ONLY concern over K-ROC is his stamina,"

Aldon will take care of that.
yes, I did say after that that his new trainer should take care of that :-)
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Go 10/22/2013 1:53am
10/22/2013 1:53am
People should remember that Roczen is only 19yo ('94). Tomac and Barcia are 21 ('92), RV 25 and RD 24. He has alot to improve in both physically and mentally just because of his young age. Thinking about the big picture, K-Roc is well ahead of the schedule becoming the best.
overthebars39 10/22/2013 1:55am
10/22/2013 1:55am
JeepnMike wrote:
..................... Says the Belgian on an American SX forum in a thread he started about a German.. (or something like that). lol
Holy cow, this is an SX forum??

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