The Carmichael / Honda deal?

pilotdude
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9/23/2013 6:15am
DC wrote:
It wasn't that acrimonious. In fact, Ricky wore the #1 plate in that last race in 2004 in tribute to Honda and the whole team. He...
It wasn't that acrimonious. In fact, Ricky wore the #1 plate in that last race in 2004 in tribute to Honda and the whole team. He was in a hurry to get on the yellow bike, and Stewart was in a hurry to move up to the big boys' class, and there just wasn't a lot of interest on any sides...

I truly believe that the FIM needs to rethink the dates of the MXoN and get it back up into the middle of September, not at the end of the month, now that the U.S. season ends in August. It's probably been really hard for Ryan and Justin and Eli to take a break, and hard for Roczen to do his testing as he prepares to move up to the 450. Guys might take a pass this year because of the five-week delay -- most prominently Villopoto this time -- because the added month of focus and training.

DC
MX Sports
jamma10 wrote:
"[i][b]now[/b] that the U.S. season ends in August...[/i]" Seems as though the problem stems from this then. Though there was only a week gap between Pala...
"now that the U.S. season ends in August..."

Seems as though the problem stems from this then. Though there was only a week gap between Pala and the MXdN in 2011 and I remember people complaining about lack of time then!

People are often criticising the short amount of time between the end of the SX season and the start of the MX season. It sounds as though a later start or a few more rest weekends would be welcomed. It would also allow riders to stay sharp right up until the MXdN.

Obviously this is much easier said than done, but the same can be said for organising the GP calendar and the other National Championships. As GuyB's post points out, you know roughly when the MXdN is going to be scheduled every year, so really it should be easier for you to accomodate it, rather than ask Youthstream to change the date which suits the majority.
Huckster said, "we shouldn't go. This passion of ours has become a big business. It's no longer 1980. Timed qualifiers are gone, two day nationals are gone, privateers in their pickup's have gone the way of bigfoot, the lockness monster and two strokes and so should the MXoN. Why should RD, RV or any of our other top guys risk their health and career for a one off race that is a no win situation for them? If they win, its expected and even if they finish on the podium, its not good enough. Why take the risk?"

I was one who strongly believed RV should have gone, despite the timing this year. Having thought about it further, I agree with first with DC, secondly with Team Green, thirdly with Huckster, and lastly with RV.

1. The MXdN used to be held mid September. It has now been put off by 2 weeks regularly to fit the extended GP schedule that already can't fill the gates with a shorter schedule. GP riders come to the U.S. in pursuit of something better while the GPs continue to decay at the hands of Longo the Magnificent. The GP tail should not wag the U.S. dog.

2. The US Nationals are not just for U.S. riders. They are for riders like Roczen, Musquin, Pourcel, Ratray, Langston, Pichon, Tortelli, Byrne, Metcalf, Townley, etc.,etc. Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc. It is the North American Championship, more than just the U.S. Nationals.

3. The U.S. just finished a 7 year winning streak in the thing. The riders get little but bragging rights for going, but they risk everything in doing so. Although it kills me to say it, RV did the right thing and the smart thing. If the dates stay the way they are, I can see more stars who ride the U.S. series from ALL countries doing as RV did this year.
Fearo
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9/23/2013 6:39am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 6:41am
I can not believe what I am reading.

First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down our throats, and now all of a sudden 'the date isn't practical' and riders are losing interest because it's so late in the season?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the conditioning cycle of a pro racer more than you would know, but that is an absolute pathetic excuse. Even if the goddamn race was held mid december; everyone involved should be JUMPING to go over and race or STFU and never participate again.

This rant may sound vitarded and exaggerated, but I literally can not stand the mindblowing arrogance it takes to demand a race to be moved to a different date because it's too taxing for certain riders from ONE continent. Give me a fucking break.
jamma10
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9/23/2013 6:42am
There are at least another three or four fairly significant National Championships that run concurrently with the GP series so the MXdN is scheduled to accommodate everyone. If a four week break is really that much of a problem surely the obvious solution is to arrange for the US National series to conclude a week or two later.

The 2011 Outdoor Nationals finished on September 11th. This year they finished on the 24th of August, but that was MXSports prerogative, so why should YS be expected to move the date of the MXdN?
pilotdude
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9/23/2013 6:48am
Fearo wrote:
I can not believe what I am reading. First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down...
I can not believe what I am reading.

First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down our throats, and now all of a sudden 'the date isn't practical' and riders are losing interest because it's so late in the season?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the conditioning cycle of a pro racer more than you would know, but that is an absolute pathetic excuse. Even if the goddamn race was held mid december; everyone involved should be JUMPING to go over and race or STFU and never participate again.

This rant may sound vitarded and exaggerated, but I literally can not stand the mindblowing arrogance it takes to demand a race to be moved to a different date because it's too taxing for certain riders from ONE continent. Give me a fucking break.
The only "mindblowing" arrogance is calling something a "World Championship" when everyone can see that it ISN'T. And since you want to stink up the place with your rant, the behavior of the GP fans last year toward Team USA stunk also.

The Shop

jamma10
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9/23/2013 6:55am
Fearo wrote:
I can not believe what I am reading. First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down...
I can not believe what I am reading.

First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down our throats, and now all of a sudden 'the date isn't practical' and riders are losing interest because it's so late in the season?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the conditioning cycle of a pro racer more than you would know, but that is an absolute pathetic excuse. Even if the goddamn race was held mid december; everyone involved should be JUMPING to go over and race or STFU and never participate again.

This rant may sound vitarded and exaggerated, but I literally can not stand the mindblowing arrogance it takes to demand a race to be moved to a different date because it's too taxing for certain riders from ONE continent. Give me a fucking break.
pilotdude wrote:
The only "mindblowing" arrogance is calling something a "World Championship" when everyone can see that it ISN'T. And since you want to stink up the place...
The only "mindblowing" arrogance is calling something a "World Championship" when everyone can see that it ISN'T. And since you want to stink up the place with your rant, the behavior of the GP fans last year toward Team USA stunk also.
Oh please.
TomZ
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9/23/2013 7:04am
Coyote wrote:
if they want the best riders in the world they're (FIM) going have to accomodate
mynewcr250 wrote:
they have and will continue to have the best riders from the US there despite the schedule. tomac and dungey are there are they not? 2/3...
they have and will continue to have the best riders from the US there despite the schedule. tomac and dungey are there are they not? 2/3 of the best guys already there. they only guy they're missing is the guy that had medical concerns and wanted to address them.
Coyote wrote:
number one, IF and I say IF you have ever trained the way these riders do most of the year then you would understand where the...
number one, IF and I say IF you have ever trained the way these riders do most of the year then you would understand where the majority of people here are coming from!! the other thing is the manufacturers who sponsor these riders to promote their product in the U.S. market don't get much from competing in Europe. As far as the "guy" with the medical issues competing, if the event was held earlier he would of been there
It is interesting that so many don't understand the intensity involved in the training/racing schedule. I am old (50+) but still do several running races and several adventure races plus some moto each year and compete at a high masters (age group) level . This weekend I have a big 1/2 marathon followed the next weekend by a Grand Prix style motocross event. I told my my wife that I need to back off the traing/racing schedule after the next 2 weeks. I train year around but could never keep the intensity level that I keep during the race season............so how could these guys possibly keep a level of intensity that is much, much higher, avoid injury, travel and keep all the sponsor obligations in order and.....importantly....have time to think for a moment. The grind of small seemingly inconsequential injuries add up over a season.

Everyone is bummed when we hear our favorite rider is out because of injury right ??? Well racing moto causes some injury to every rider.....we hope not the catastophic type injury but RV is a great example of toughing it out through a season.

If you haven't tried to train and compete at a high level in a very physical sport......give it a try. After a year let us know how you feel about extended seasons and a break for recuperation.

Coyote.....must people can't begin to train at that level as they are incapable of handling the work load in the first place so they can't do the build-up to a truely high level of fitness..........there are a few who have trained finger tips that are willing to tell those who can dotop level training what they SHOULD be doing.
jamma10
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9/23/2013 7:04am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 7:24am
TeamGreen wrote:
Is it just me...or...did anyone-else see the comment about RV saying he would have gone if it was a few weeks earlier...? And, the US isn't...
Is it just me...or...did anyone-else see the comment about RV saying he would have gone if it was a few weeks earlier...?

And, the US isn't the only country w/ National Schedule conflicts.

Going to those 2 HUGE MOTO NATIONS, Thailand & Qatar, is what this Calendar debate is really about.
Actually what this Calendar debate is really about is the fact the Outdoor Nationals finished two/three weeks earlier than they have done in recent years. The World Championship started a month earlier to accommodate the extra two GP's.

2007 MXdN Sep 22-23
GP season finished Sep 2nd
Outdoor Nats finished on Sep 10th.

2008 MXdN Sep 27-28
GP season finished Sep 14th
Outdoor Nats finished on Aug 31st

2009 MXdN Oct 3-4
GP season finished Sep 13th
Outdoor Nats finished on Sep 5th

2010 MXdN Sep 25-26
GP season finished Sep 11th
Outdoor Nats finished on Sep 11th

2011 MXdN Sep 17-18
GP season finished Sep 11th
Outdoor Nats finished on Sep 11th

2012 MXdN Sep. 29-30
GP season finished Sep 23rd
Outdoor Nats finished on Sep 8th

2013 MXdN Sep. 28-29
GP season finished Sep 8th
Outdoor Nats finished on Aug 24th

So basically MXSports arranged for the Outdoor Nationals to conclude a few weeks earlier than normal and now some of you are talking about pulling out of the MXdN because your riders have too much time on their hands.
DC
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9/23/2013 7:17am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 7:19am
"Mind-blowing arrogance"? It was not a "demand" but a suggestion to make sure the top U.S.-based riders were up for going, no big deal.

The nationals used to run into October, with a few rounds AFTER the MXoN. It didn't work out so well either, for either side. That's why Stanton, Bradhshaw and Kiedrowski all sat out 1992.

DC
MX Sports
bents
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Fantasy
9/23/2013 7:33am
Keep in mind that aside from national pride, the risk to do this event is massive, and a crash could end someone's sx season, and for what? They aren't getting paid to do this race, correct? Who makes money off this event? Youth stream? As much as I too wanted to see RV face off against Tony et al, he absolutely did the right thing by taking care of himself and resting and resetting himself for another sx title. The window for earnings is short and for all of those that continue to race this thing, I take my hat off to them.

And, if the US doesn't go this event, I'm sorry but it renders the race irrelevant.
jamma10
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9/23/2013 7:38am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 7:40am
DC wrote:
"Mind-blowing arrogance"? It was not a "demand" but a suggestion to make sure the top U.S.-based riders were up for going, no big deal. The nationals...
"Mind-blowing arrogance"? It was not a "demand" but a suggestion to make sure the top U.S.-based riders were up for going, no big deal.

The nationals used to run into October, with a few rounds AFTER the MXoN. It didn't work out so well either, for either side. That's why Stanton, Bradhshaw and Kiedrowski all sat out 1992.

DC
MX Sports
DC you know roughly when the MXdN will be held each year, so why did MXSports schedule the Outdoor Nationals to end on August 24th?
jamma10
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9/23/2013 7:52am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 8:04am
bents wrote:
Keep in mind that aside from national pride, the risk to do this event is massive, and a crash could end someone's sx season, and for...
Keep in mind that aside from national pride, the risk to do this event is massive, and a crash could end someone's sx season, and for what? They aren't getting paid to do this race, correct? Who makes money off this event? Youth stream? As much as I too wanted to see RV face off against Tony et al, he absolutely did the right thing by taking care of himself and resting and resetting himself for another sx title. The window for earnings is short and for all of those that continue to race this thing, I take my hat off to them.

And, if the US doesn't go this event, I'm sorry but it renders the race irrelevant.
A rider's income is largely dependant on sponsorship and there wouldn't be any sponsorship without the fans/spectators to begin with. They may be pro athletes but the entertainment factor plays a major role in professional sport.

While Supercross is the most lucrative form of the sport but the MXDN attracts a hell of a lot of interest and attention around the world that Supercross does not. So while riders may not get a cheque for coming 1st, 2nd or 3rd at the event, they're already getting paid handsomely by Alpinestars, Fox, Shoei, Spy, Monster Energy and anyone else that WE, the fans support off the back of a riders success.

Its a self perpetuating cycle.

edit: thats not to say I'm against YS offering a monetary reward as well, which I think they should! I just think the idea that American riders aren't earning anything from the event is debatable, especially when you consider that many other riders lining up next to them at an MXdN have to work during the week.
DC
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9/23/2013 7:54am
Because there are hundreds of riders, mechanics and team personnel that wanted the long domestic season to end sooner than later. Our athletes start racing the first weekend in January and really don't stop through the end of summer (August) in America. They would rather stop early and have time to rest, heal their bodies, live their lives (like Justin Brayton getting married), switch teams or whatever. That extra two or three weeks off the road and off training means a lot to them, especially when testing and training start in October all over again.

The MXoN is a great event, but only a few guys participate. Our schedule is based on the balance between Supercross (which is 17 races ends the first weekend in May) and outdoors (which starts two weeks later). The OEMs and all of the race teams were asked for their opinion, and every single one of them asked for a schedule that ended in August.

The effort to go to the MXoN is greater for U.S. based teams and riders. It takes weeks of extra of extra work, and I was just trying to suggest a way to make it easier, and more likely that the top guys would all want to go. I would think that consideration would be given to them in scheduling, but apparently you guys think differently. No big deal.

DC
MX Sports
DC
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9/23/2013 8:00am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 8:01am
"So basically MXSports arranged for the Outdoor Nationals to conclude a few weeks earlier than normal and now some of you are talking about pulling out of the MXdN because your riders have too much time on their hands."

"DC you know roughly when the MXdN will be held each year, so why did MXSports schedule the Outdoor Nationals to end on August 24th?RV would surely be flying to Germany with the rest of the team had the Nationals finished a week ago, as they have done in recent years."

Jamma, you're trying to spin this into being my fault that Villopoto didn't go race? Seriously? I am trying to explain how to prevent guys from skipping, and you guys are taking this all wrong. The race is not as important to Ryan Villopoto as his career is, and he chose to worry about his job as a professional athlete on the AMA circuit by picking the time of his surgery, because there's not a lot of downtime on our schedule, and the MXoN is now in the middle of the off-season for guys based here. Surely that's something that should be considered moving forward.

DC
MX Sports
Fearo
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9/23/2013 8:11am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 8:12am
I wasn't targetting you specifically DC, but I just don't understand some of you guys' mindset about all of this.

Doesnt the Australian/NZ supercross championship start in like a month? Should we change the date to january because team AUS/NZ are losing valuable testing time?

What about Mongolia? For all we know, the MXDN falls dead in the middle of their domestic championship. Do they have less of a right to be there than team USA?

If the date of an MXDN is important enough for a rider to skip going, he has no business going in the first place.

Also, pilotdude, are you high? Nowhere in your post could I make out what your reply had to do with my post. I didn't even mention the words World Championship.
bturner26x
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9/23/2013 8:16am
You guys are forgetting that it's not just RV, RD & ET that are coming from the US series. There are a lot more guys racing for their countries that race the US series than just 3 Americans. Roczen, Reed, Burner, Rattray, Metty, Moose-Can, etc all race(d) in the US, but race the MXoN sometimes. There aren't just Americans racing the US events. Guys from all over the world. So it's not just 3 American guys trying to change the MXoN date. There is a list of riders from all over the world that race here both seasons & then the MXoN. Guys from counties that y'all are from to. It's not all about the US team & DC. It's about every rider & team that races on US soil, which are made up of many different people from all over the world.
Titan1
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9/23/2013 8:25am
Fearo wrote:
I can not believe what I am reading. First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down...
I can not believe what I am reading.

First everyone gets 7 years of jabbering of 'how important the MXDN is for team USA' shoved down our throats, and now all of a sudden 'the date isn't practical' and riders are losing interest because it's so late in the season?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the conditioning cycle of a pro racer more than you would know, but that is an absolute pathetic excuse. Even if the goddamn race was held mid december; everyone involved should be JUMPING to go over and race or STFU and never participate again.

This rant may sound vitarded and exaggerated, but I literally can not stand the mindblowing arrogance it takes to demand a race to be moved to a different date because it's too taxing for certain riders from ONE continent. Give me a fucking break.
The part you seem to forget is that its NOT just the American riders that this affects...its all AMA based riders (that includes top riders from S. Africa, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, England, etc. etc.)....

It wouldn't make sense at all to change it JUST for the three American riders...but it MIGHT make sense to at least consider it for the benefit of all of the American based riders from other countries that would like to/should participate...
Mitch_Berger
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9/23/2013 8:26am
Matthes wrote:
From what I remember, RC wanted more money, Honda balked and Suzuki paid him a crap ton (rumor was no title bonuses, his salary was assuming...
From what I remember, RC wanted more money, Honda balked and Suzuki paid him a crap ton (rumor was no title bonuses, his salary was assuming he would win the title). And then Suzuki found out what Honda already knew and that was they really didn't sell any more motorcycles by winning professional titles.

Like all free agents, it was about the money. Nothing wrong with that.
The same Honda corporate guy who chased McGrath away from Honda also PO #4 and he left.
jamma10
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9/23/2013 8:27am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 8:41am
DC wrote:
"So basically MXSports arranged for the Outdoor Nationals to conclude a few weeks earlier than normal and now some of you are talking about pulling out...
"So basically MXSports arranged for the Outdoor Nationals to conclude a few weeks earlier than normal and now some of you are talking about pulling out of the MXdN because your riders have too much time on their hands."

"DC you know roughly when the MXdN will be held each year, so why did MXSports schedule the Outdoor Nationals to end on August 24th?RV would surely be flying to Germany with the rest of the team had the Nationals finished a week ago, as they have done in recent years."

Jamma, you're trying to spin this into being my fault that Villopoto didn't go race? Seriously? I am trying to explain how to prevent guys from skipping, and you guys are taking this all wrong. The race is not as important to Ryan Villopoto as his career is, and he chose to worry about his job as a professional athlete on the AMA circuit by picking the time of his surgery, because there's not a lot of downtime on our schedule, and the MXoN is now in the middle of the off-season for guys based here. Surely that's something that should be considered moving forward.

DC
MX Sports
I'm not trying to spin it into anything.

I don't have an issue with RV making the decision he has at all, but the early finish to the Outdoor Nationals seems to have influenced his decision to get surgery straight away rather than Youthstream holding the MXdN late in the season which is what was being implied, along with the suggestion that riders may decide to opt out in future.

I just wanted to know why the Outdoor Nats couldn't start a and finish week or two later inorder to safeguard the attendance of an American team at the MXdN, but you've answered that. If the OEM's voted to end the season in August then thats fair enough, but it sounds as though it could impact on the MXdN in the future which is a shame.
Trav138
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9/23/2013 9:15am
Make it every two years. Two years to build it up and more prestigious imo
Sondy132001
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9/23/2013 9:17am
This is a "Why did RC leave Honda" thread yes ? How did it turn into a bash DC/MXDN thread ?? can we keep on focus here ?

S
Knapton
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9/23/2013 10:06am
For what its worth, the Canadian outdoor series ends even earlier than the US
ATKpilot99
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9/23/2013 10:11am
Knee jerk reaction to try and fix something that isnt broken imo . We're still sending a strong team. Maybe if the race were a few weeks later Herlings could race . Should we move all future mxdns later to allow guys to heal ?
jamma10
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9/23/2013 10:18am
This is a "Why did RC leave Honda" thread yes ? How did it turn into a bash DC/MXDN thread ?? can we keep on focus...
This is a "Why did RC leave Honda" thread yes ? How did it turn into a bash DC/MXDN thread ?? can we keep on focus here ?

S
No one is bashing DC.
Outsider
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9/23/2013 10:21am
jamma10 wrote:
I'm not trying to spin it into anything. I don't have an issue with RV making the decision he has at all, but the early finish...
I'm not trying to spin it into anything.

I don't have an issue with RV making the decision he has at all, but the early finish to the Outdoor Nationals seems to have influenced his decision to get surgery straight away rather than Youthstream holding the MXdN late in the season which is what was being implied, along with the suggestion that riders may decide to opt out in future.

I just wanted to know why the Outdoor Nats couldn't start a and finish week or two later inorder to safeguard the attendance of an American team at the MXdN, but you've answered that. If the OEM's voted to end the season in August then thats fair enough, but it sounds as though it could impact on the MXdN in the future which is a shame.
You can't be serious... reschedule an entire series for the mxdn? Any idea how many people that would effect? Who's the high one here?
disbanded
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9/23/2013 10:23am
This is truly a stupid thread. Just sad really.
jamma10
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9/23/2013 10:46am
jamma10 wrote:
I'm not trying to spin it into anything. I don't have an issue with RV making the decision he has at all, but the early finish...
I'm not trying to spin it into anything.

I don't have an issue with RV making the decision he has at all, but the early finish to the Outdoor Nationals seems to have influenced his decision to get surgery straight away rather than Youthstream holding the MXdN late in the season which is what was being implied, along with the suggestion that riders may decide to opt out in future.

I just wanted to know why the Outdoor Nats couldn't start a and finish week or two later inorder to safeguard the attendance of an American team at the MXdN, but you've answered that. If the OEM's voted to end the season in August then thats fair enough, but it sounds as though it could impact on the MXdN in the future which is a shame.
Outsider wrote:
You can't be serious... reschedule an entire series for the mxdn? Any idea how many people that would effect? Who's the high one here?
That is precisely the point I was making, but on the flip side of the argument.
kawasa84
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9/23/2013 11:13am
philG wrote:
You forget that the GP riders have their own national series as well.... usually 8 rounds. so thats 26 races , in 3 months less.. we...
You forget that the GP riders have their own national series as well.... usually 8 rounds. so thats 26 races , in 3 months less.. we cant start any earlier because the weather is too unpredicatable hence the fly away races at the start of the season .
And we run into september because thats still summer .
I know this isn't much, but actually summer ended on September 21st, 2013 and Fall or Autumn began September 22, 2013. The MXDN is being held in the Fall.
Carry on.........
FreshTopEnd
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9/23/2013 11:14am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 11:22am
Back to the original post, didn't RC to Suzuki get done and announced before the 04 outdoors season started? And then Rc ripped on 24 moto wins, tweaking Honda's doubt to regret.

As to the MXdN, nothing can fit everyone perfectly. But if I took the little corner of the world this board represents as representative how people see the event generally, I'd be inclined to draw US MX away from the event and have as little to do with FIM outdoor mx as possible. Right now the guys and teams are pouring a ton of energy and resources into an event that they will end up getting shit on by the rest of the world over unless they go 1-2 in every moto. Why bother?
500guy
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9/23/2013 11:19am
Back to the original post, didn't RC to Suzuki get done and announced before the 04 outdoors season started? And then Rc ripped on 24 moto...
Back to the original post, didn't RC to Suzuki get done and announced before the 04 outdoors season started? And then Rc ripped on 24 moto wins, tweaking Honda's doubt to regret.

As to the MXdN, nothing can fit everyone perfectly. But if I took the little corner of the world this board represents as representative how people see the event generally, I'd be inclined to draw US MX away from the event and have as little to do with FIM outdoor mx as possible. Right now the guys and teams are pouring a ton of energy and resources into an event that they will end up getting shit on by the rest of the world over unless they go 1-2 in every moto. Why bother?
Apparently if you don't like being Shat on you have no National Pride.

The more things change the less reason I can see for anyone to line up for this Youthstream money grab.
WeiserGuy
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9/23/2013 11:52am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2013 12:05pm
I been to a couple Supercross races, more nationals and GNCCs than I can count and one MXON in 07. MXON was by far the best dirtbike race I've ever witnessed hands down. Getting goose bumps just thinking about it and prey it comes back @ Red Bud or Highpoint!


Now to touch on the RC/Honda topic. If he would've retired @ Honda and played a similar roll as he did @ Suzuki would Honda be struggling with bike development every couple years? Has to be considered since Suzuki continued to use the same platform RC help develop when he was racing.

FTE: Yes he signed with Suzuki in April before the nationals began.

But as Bob Hannah would say IF my aunt had nutts she'd be my uncle!

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