How scary a leap was Suicide Mountain ?

Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 8/28/2013 6:12pm
8/28/2013 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2013 6:13pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft...
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft. plateau to the next ledge, but said it was a blind jump...when you went for it all you saw was sky. Hannah, Johnson, Mike Bell, Billy Liles, and Tom Carson jumped it on their 250s. Glover, Warren Reid, Goat Breker and Magoo did it on 500s, and Jeff Ward was the only 125 rider to clear it. What was this jump like compared to some of today's obstacles?
I was on the track that day on a 250 and I will say it was knarley. The problem was the approaching turn and straight were bone dry and the hill leading up to the take off was hard and bumpy. You had to have an excellent motor and suspension to get the power to the ground. It wasn't just a matter of nutting up to do it.....you had to have equipment too.

Mickey D. was one of the first guys to do it...
Highsider
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Highsider 8/28/2013 6:30pm
8/28/2013 6:30pm
The Matterhorn was steeper.
queen of spodes 8/28/2013 6:42pm
8/28/2013 6:42pm
Some better video of the '84 Saddleback National... 125s

[embed][/embed]
anniebertzak
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anniebertzak 8/28/2013 7:01pm
8/28/2013 7:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2013 7:04pm
Great home video from James Pate, who's brother Steve Pate #76 (Yamaha) was in the 84 Saddleback National. This shows the worlds greatest dyno (the start hill), bits of Webco Hill, the Magoo-Hannah double jump, Suicide Mountain, the finish line turn and Larry "Super-Mouth" Huffman doing what he does best.

I was there that national weekend in 84 and raced Saddleback Saturday and CMC on a regular basis. You came to accept Saddleback because it was the place to be... it was muddy in practice, good the 1st moto and blue groove, dusty dry the 2nd moto (even during the nationals) except that one time they dumped sand all over the track and made it into a quasi-sand track for that one weekend. You raced Saddleback because you loved racing... and to see the trick works bikes in action the factory riders used to ride. Had the privilege to get roosted by many of them LOL...

https://youtu.be/qgdRFqD1MEk

The Shop

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anniebertzak
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anniebertzak 8/28/2013 7:02pm
8/28/2013 7:02pm
queen of spodes wrote:
Some better video of the '84 Saddleback National... 125s [embed][/embed]
Some better video of the '84 Saddleback National... 125s

[embed][/embed]
Were on the same page and thinking the same... thanks for sharing the video
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 8/28/2013 7:04pm
8/28/2013 7:04pm
Some great responses especially from people who raced there... Thanks.
Falcon
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Falcon 8/28/2013 9:24pm
8/28/2013 9:24pm
You guys have to remember the historical perspective, too. The bikes in 1984 were well into the "evolution" phase, but even the top pros had only been jumping doubles of any size for maybe 10 years and probably less. Something my mom would jump on a tricycle today might have given a local pro fits in 1984. Nobody knew exactly where the limit was so they went bigger and bigger.
DanDunes818 8/28/2013 9:57pm
8/28/2013 9:57pm
That 125 national video from 84 is awesome. It totally brought me back to 1984. What a great time to be in SoCal for the rise of American MX. Man, johnny O was so pretty on a dirt bike and Wardy was a bulldog. Unfortunately I didn't get to go to Saddleback much 'cause pops was always running races at Indian Dunes every Sunday, but I did get there a few times.
ocscottie
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ocscottie 8/28/2013 10:00pm
8/28/2013 10:00pm
hey Dan, im sure you recall what a BITCH is was to climb that thing when you were a kid...good times!
Sully
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Sully 8/28/2013 10:42pm
8/28/2013 10:42pm
queen of spodes wrote:
Some better video of the '84 Saddleback National... 125s [embed][/embed]
Some better video of the '84 Saddleback National... 125s

[embed][/embed]
Johnny O' really shows what Motoxdoc was saying about suspension being key. Not only did he need it for the landings he came up short on, but it also had to handle that huge G-out at the bottom.

On another note, I love that they had racers from the other classes in the announcers booth with Huffman. In the first video you can hear Larry talking to Warren Reid and David Bailey.
DanDunes818 8/28/2013 11:48pm
8/28/2013 11:48pm
ocscottie wrote:
hey Dan, im sure you recall what a BITCH is was to climb that thing when you were a kid...good times!
What you talking about Scottie? I used to huck that thing on my YZ60.. What's that they say? The older we get the faster we were.

Seriously, though, you're right. Climbing that thing was no joke. I remember when I first heard they were running the pro's up it and guys were hucking it. The first thing I did was built a replica in my front yard for my hand held--sound effects by mouth--motocross action figures. In my mind I was jumping it on my YZ60.
tmphotoart 8/29/2013 1:35am
8/29/2013 1:35am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft...
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft. plateau to the next ledge, but said it was a blind jump...when you went for it all you saw was sky. Hannah, Johnson, Mike Bell, Billy Liles, and Tom Carson jumped it on their 250s. Glover, Warren Reid, Goat Breker and Magoo did it on 500s, and Jeff Ward was the only 125 rider to clear it. What was this jump like compared to some of today's obstacles?
Motoxdoc wrote:
I was on the track that day on a 250 and I will say it was knarley. The problem was the approaching turn and straight were...
I was on the track that day on a 250 and I will say it was knarley. The problem was the approaching turn and straight were bone dry and the hill leading up to the take off was hard and bumpy. You had to have an excellent motor and suspension to get the power to the ground. It wasn't just a matter of nutting up to do it.....you had to have equipment too.

Mickey D. was one of the first guys to do it...
Mikey D had problems on his Maico 490 during the race . . . here is a shot I took of him flying right before he let go of his bike. He landed on top of the next step away from his bike.
(Damn I wish I had my digital camera equip back then - I was always running out of film)

The take off area was getting so rutted and worn everyone was getting thrown off line, or at bad angles. The take off was worse than the landing!


Here's another shot of the ledges with O Mara dropping down from the top ledge . . .

it was steep and slippery hardpack all the way down.

This was a true Motocross Track fit for a AMA National, where the track challenged the top pros of the day.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 8/29/2013 3:06am
8/29/2013 3:06am
Wow.

At 1:07, just for a second, the camera passes by Drew Lein, the originator of 100%. He's in a 100% white sweatshirt, holding a notebook.

Most of you know Drew's story. I miss that guy.
thefactorypilot 8/29/2013 3:35am
8/29/2013 3:35am
Tbteam wrote:
Wow. At 1:07, just for a second, the camera passes by Drew Lein, the originator of 100%. He's in a 100% white sweatshirt, holding a notebook...
Wow.

At 1:07, just for a second, the camera passes by Drew Lein, the originator of 100%. He's in a 100% white sweatshirt, holding a notebook.

Most of you know Drew's story. I miss that guy.
No disrespect to your friend at all, but everyone who knew him always says "None of you know Drew's story"... and then proceeds to not tell us the story.

Someone on Matthes' podcasts said that the new "100%" is basically a travesty and that Drew was truly One Hundred Percent about moto, something this new brand fails to capture. Maybe it was Larry Brooks. He said the same thing though, "You guys don't know Drews story".

I for one would appreciate hearing it I'm sure.
Arkmx
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Arkmx 8/29/2013 8:25am
8/29/2013 8:25am
.

I got to go up and down the hill in Jan of 83 during the Goldenstate Nationals, trying to qualify in the 500 Pro class. Nothing like having your chain break on the face of the second ledge going up the hill in practice.! Then the push back to the pits.... errr. I think going down was scarier that going up! When you went over the last ledge coming down was like a free fall then you had to turn right at the bottom!

Have to give a shout out to the late Bob Elliot who gave me the chain off his bike so I could keep racing that day!

I was in So Cal for the month going to the Suzuki Mechanics School (when they were at the factory's) and meet Bob then. He was in the R&D dept. and a test rider at the time. RIP Bob!

Also got to race on of the Saturday Saddleback 40-45 minuet Pro Motos that they use to have back then. That was fun, but did not use Suicide Hill.

.
VET74
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VET74 8/29/2013 8:54am
8/29/2013 8:54am
anniebertzak wrote:
Great home video from James Pate, who's brother Steve Pate #76 (Yamaha) was in the 84 Saddleback National. This shows the worlds greatest dyno (the start...
Great home video from James Pate, who's brother Steve Pate #76 (Yamaha) was in the 84 Saddleback National. This shows the worlds greatest dyno (the start hill), bits of Webco Hill, the Magoo-Hannah double jump, Suicide Mountain, the finish line turn and Larry "Super-Mouth" Huffman doing what he does best.

I was there that national weekend in 84 and raced Saddleback Saturday and CMC on a regular basis. You came to accept Saddleback because it was the place to be... it was muddy in practice, good the 1st moto and blue groove, dusty dry the 2nd moto (even during the nationals) except that one time they dumped sand all over the track and made it into a quasi-sand track for that one weekend. You raced Saddleback because you loved racing... and to see the trick works bikes in action the factory riders used to ride. Had the privilege to get roosted by many of them LOL...

https://youtu.be/qgdRFqD1MEk
Ah the Pate brothers...you haven't lived until you've spent a little time with them. JP has some legendary stories.
hammertime
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hammertime 8/29/2013 8:56am
8/29/2013 8:56am
phil jumped it first. stamp it. i'm not gonna lie, just sayin.
Jeff alessi
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Jeff alessi 8/29/2013 8:58am
8/29/2013 8:58am
With big enough balls you could triple that up on today's 450s, it's got the run. Big tho.

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motoman617
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motoman617 8/29/2013 9:07am
8/29/2013 9:07am
We were lucky enough to be there spectating that day. We stood there with our jaws hitting the ground every time they hit those jumps. I remember racing Saddleback and Racing World a few times but we were mainly Dunes regulars since we were in Ventura County. Saddleback was awesome in the day. Was always in awe of that place and got sweaty palms just thinking about that start hill. Good stuff....

Being a Dunes regular from about 76 to 84 it wasn't uncommon to see all the top pros show up for a big purse day. Pulling into the pits and seeing the Team Honda and Team Suzuki box vans was like coming to a mini national. Johnny O could rip that place. Highest I ever got to was open intermediate but remember them running us with pro practice and looking up and seeing Johnny O fly over me. Humbling but exciting at the same time. Good times and I miss that place.

Those old videos are great memories of Saddleback.

Jim
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MarkF 8/29/2013 9:11am
8/29/2013 9:11am
Arkmx wrote:
.

LaRocco's Leap only smaller, less of a run at it, dang near straight up.


Watch just past the 34 second mark....




.
Titan1 wrote:
That's not real motocross...no trees...the dirt sucks...its dusty...its probably hot...and I bet the riders hated it.
That is me in the 125 segment (#50 on the Yamaha) getting lapped by O'Mara . I rode with a cast on my wrist that day. Not a good day for me. The double jump they show multiple times in all three segments was the "Magoo double". It doesn't look like much by today's standards, but it was tough, especially as the day went on and the main line wore down.
motoBRD
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motoBRD 8/29/2013 9:31am
8/29/2013 9:31am
Magoo double circa 2011. The things you can find using the search function on Vital. By the sounds of it, I wasn't born and Saddleback was already done. I do like looking at some of this old history, but never like seeing that history go away like this.





Toneconsultant 8/29/2013 9:39am
8/29/2013 9:39am
If I recall correctly, that jump was actually named after Danny Chandler because he was the 1st to jump it in a National. I can't recall the year, but I believe (according to MXA), because Magoo was jumping it, Hannah had to jump it also to run with him. I'm sure more jumped it that day, but according to MXA, they were the only ones that jumped it that day.
stillwelding
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stillwelding 8/29/2013 9:45am
8/29/2013 9:45am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft...
I was looking through an MXA from 83 and the Saddlback National was covered. They described it as a 20 ft incline over a 20 ft. plateau to the next ledge, but said it was a blind jump...when you went for it all you saw was sky. Hannah, Johnson, Mike Bell, Billy Liles, and Tom Carson jumped it on their 250s. Glover, Warren Reid, Goat Breker and Magoo did it on 500s, and Jeff Ward was the only 125 rider to clear it. What was this jump like compared to some of today's obstacles?
It wasn't so long as it was steep and high (slowed your momentum). Also try putting on today's Mt. Bike suspension and wheels on your modern MX bike and jump away. Oh, and drum brakes too!
stillwelding
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stillwelding 8/29/2013 10:00am
8/29/2013 10:00am
motoBRD wrote:
Magoo double circa 2011. The things you can find using the search function on Vital. By the sounds of it, I wasn't born and Saddleback was...
Magoo double circa 2011. The things you can find using the search function on Vital. By the sounds of it, I wasn't born and Saddleback was already done. I do like looking at some of this old history, but never like seeing that history go away like this.





Just shows how motorcycle riding destroys the environment forever, NOT! I just drove back from Oakley through Santiago Canyon about a month ago, and couldn't find any signs of the track. Of course I was going the opposite way than I normally would have, and I didn't want to explain to the officer that I was looking for the old Saddleback track as I crossed over the center divider into oncoming traffic Tongue
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 8/29/2013 10:14am
8/29/2013 10:14am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Possibly...the riders I mentioned were in the article covering the 83 national and those were the riders that jumped it that day.
MBBadgers wrote:
other sanctioning bodies ran there before the ama and the national, smx, cmc, nma, crc, only pro riders were allowed to race suicide and banzai mtn.
UpTiTe wrote:
Those other clubs never ran Suicide Mountain, they only did it for the national.
You're wrong CMC ran it for GSN I was there.
HenryA
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HenryA 8/29/2013 10:19am
8/29/2013 10:19am
Can't believe that they actually made it to the top of that jump on those bikes. Balls of steel.
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DBLMX.com 8/29/2013 10:23am
8/29/2013 10:23am


Holy crap. That photo gives a good idea how steep the take off was.
bh84
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bh84 8/29/2013 10:30am
8/29/2013 10:30am
I remember we had a similar jump at a track in Parry Sound. gave everyone fits trying to clear the thing probably 20 feet up and 30 feet long, but with a bigger run. First time I did it I nearly shit myself. My friend shattered his ankle trying to clear it, another buddy had his bike come back down the hill in the back of a Mule. But i think the best depiction was my good buddy Tyler. Take a real good look at the second photo.





Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 8/29/2013 10:38am
8/29/2013 10:38am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2013 10:39am
thefactorypilot wrote:
No disrespect to your friend at all, but everyone who knew him always says "None of you know Drew's story"... and then proceeds to not tell...
No disrespect to your friend at all, but everyone who knew him always says "None of you know Drew's story"... and then proceeds to not tell us the story.

Someone on Matthes' podcasts said that the new "100%" is basically a travesty and that Drew was truly One Hundred Percent about moto, something this new brand fails to capture. Maybe it was Larry Brooks. He said the same thing though, "You guys don't know Drews story".

I for one would appreciate hearing it I'm sure.
Drew was one of my best friends. I was one of the last people he emailed with, he basically sent me his good bye letter and I didn't write him back, it pains me still to this day. I had no idea he was going to kill himself, would have never seen that coming and I put off writing him back a couple days, until I got the call from Jimmy Holley telling me he killed himself. Drew was the nicest, happiest guy I ever met, would have never pegged him to kill himself, it's the same way with Marty Moates, nicest and happiest guy I knew, I was around him near the end and had no idea he would kill himself either. Drew was a good man and he is/was 100% and I am glad they are carrying on his legacy.

S
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Frodad78 8/29/2013 10:47am
8/29/2013 10:47am
bh84 wrote:
I remember we had a similar jump at a track in Parry Sound. gave everyone fits trying to clear the thing probably 20 feet up and...
I remember we had a similar jump at a track in Parry Sound. gave everyone fits trying to clear the thing probably 20 feet up and 30 feet long, but with a bigger run. First time I did it I nearly shit myself. My friend shattered his ankle trying to clear it, another buddy had his bike come back down the hill in the back of a Mule. But i think the best depiction was my good buddy Tyler. Take a real good look at the second photo.





Nothing like casing a jump and having to worry about your wheels flying off...wait, I don't worry about that nevermind.

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