My Thoughts on Eli Tomac Going to the 450

bullpen658
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Edited Date/Time 8/28/2013 12:40pm
I predict that if he can get through SX injury-free (not a small accomplishment for anyone), that he is going to be a serious threat in the outdoors.....even against the two Ryans. The smartest thing he did was sign with the Geico Honda squad. That is a LOT less to have to adjust to than if he had moved to a different team or worse, an entire different brand of motorcycle. He'll have the same people around him, the same routine, etc.

I don't mean to discount his SX skills because I believe he could be a threat there too but based on the history of this sport, most people not named MC do not go up to the big boy class and immediately dominate in SX. He will have the fitness to handle the 450, the longer mains, and the longer season, but keeping it on two wheels is the hard part.

I'm really looking forward to seeing his race craft continue to evolve and improve. I'm a huge fan.

I'm gonna go eat some pizza now to celebrate....and drink some coors because coors is from Colorado and so are the Tomacs.
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OldYZRider1
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8/25/2013 7:44am
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of the factory 250's. Put the high end suspension allowed in the 450 class on a 250 for him and see what he can do.
burn1986
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8/25/2013 10:30am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2013 11:07am
I agree with everything but being a threat to the two Ryan's. He will be a threat to Dungey but not RV. No one will be a threat to RV for about another 3 years, maybe. He is just starting his reign.
suzuki173
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8/25/2013 10:34am
He better get those starts figured out or he won't be seeing the two Ryans for long! But I think he has the speed to be in the lead pack if he starts with them
TeamGreen
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8/25/2013 10:50am
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of...
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of the factory 250's. Put the high end suspension allowed in the 450 class on a 250 for him and see what he can do.
He pretty much is staying on a "250": The Honda 450 is the most "250-esque".... Especially by '14 model year standards. In '14 the CRF 450 & 250 are going to share a ton of Chassis-DNA.

The Shop

ridge
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8/25/2013 10:52am
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just going to roll over when they get a bad start or get passed. Catching (and passing) guys like Grant, Alessi, Short, Weimer, Stewart, etc. after his typically bad starts will be much harder too. And, I don't think Eli can bring it to the Ryans in his rookie season. The 450 is a different beast and will take some time to finger out. 2015 might be his year to challenge for the championship.

But I like your style Bullpen! Gotta root for the local guy...I think I'll crack a coors to support you supporting your guy.
Huckster
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8/25/2013 10:59am
ridge wrote:
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just...
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just going to roll over when they get a bad start or get passed. Catching (and passing) guys like Grant, Alessi, Short, Weimer, Stewart, etc. after his typically bad starts will be much harder too. And, I don't think Eli can bring it to the Ryans in his rookie season. The 450 is a different beast and will take some time to finger out. 2015 might be his year to challenge for the championship.

But I like your style Bullpen! Gotta root for the local guy...I think I'll crack a coors to support you supporting your guy.
I agree with this. Justin beat him last year on the 250's. Justin is a top 5 guy, contrary to the belief of our resident hater, so its not going to be a cake walk for Tomac. He has the skill to be up there but going 30 +2 on a 450 is a different animal and don't discount the fact that this past summer/season it was unusually cool out.
endo
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8/25/2013 11:13am
burn1986 wrote:
I agree with everything but being a threat to the two Ryan's. He will be a threat to Dungey but not RV. No one will be...
I agree with everything but being a threat to the two Ryan's. He will be a threat to Dungey but not RV. No one will be a threat to RV for about another 3 years, maybe. He is just starting his reign.
I have heard from a good source that RV will be done (retired) after 2 more years.
TeamGreen
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8/25/2013 11:16am
burn1986 wrote:
I agree with everything but being a threat to the two Ryan's. He will be a threat to Dungey but not RV. No one will be...
I agree with everything but being a threat to the two Ryan's. He will be a threat to Dungey but not RV. No one will be a threat to RV for about another 3 years, maybe. He is just starting his reign.
endo wrote:
I have heard from a good source that RV will be done (retired) after 2 more years.
Cindi Lauper covered this: Money Changes Everything
visser62
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8/25/2013 11:18am
ridge wrote:
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just...
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just going to roll over when they get a bad start or get passed. Catching (and passing) guys like Grant, Alessi, Short, Weimer, Stewart, etc. after his typically bad starts will be much harder too. And, I don't think Eli can bring it to the Ryans in his rookie season. The 450 is a different beast and will take some time to finger out. 2015 might be his year to challenge for the championship.

But I like your style Bullpen! Gotta root for the local guy...I think I'll crack a coors to support you supporting your guy.
Huckster wrote:
I agree with this. Justin beat him last year on the 250's. Justin is a top 5 guy, contrary to the belief of our resident hater...
I agree with this. Justin beat him last year on the 250's. Justin is a top 5 guy, contrary to the belief of our resident hater, so its not going to be a cake walk for Tomac. He has the skill to be up there but going 30 +2 on a 450 is a different animal and don't discount the fact that this past summer/season it was unusually cool out.
Justin beat him in overall points last year in the 250s, but Tomac was much faster. Tomac was Baggett's biggest threat in 2012, and he won more races than Barcia. With an extra year, I think he will definitely be better outdoors. It's going to be a great year.
FlaNard
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8/25/2013 12:07pm
Eli will need to get his starts figured out or he will be struggling to even see the Ryan's. I expect him to do well but he has been so up and down at times that I can't see him beating the machines that are the Ryan's. Not for a title anyway. There will likely be races where he is untouchable, but he can also really struggle. Lets not forget his entire year and assume the last couple of races are all he's done. I'm a fan and want to see a three way battle for the title, but I'm not convinced just yet.
8/25/2013 12:35pm
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of...
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of the factory 250's. Put the high end suspension allowed in the 450 class on a 250 for him and see what he can do.
It's all about the start. And to get a start against the top 450 guys...you need a 450.
Huckster
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8/25/2013 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2013 1:03pm
ridge wrote:
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just...
I see him being a top 5 guy every week, which is a big accomplishment. The big difference is guys like Canard and Barcia aren't just going to roll over when they get a bad start or get passed. Catching (and passing) guys like Grant, Alessi, Short, Weimer, Stewart, etc. after his typically bad starts will be much harder too. And, I don't think Eli can bring it to the Ryans in his rookie season. The 450 is a different beast and will take some time to finger out. 2015 might be his year to challenge for the championship.

But I like your style Bullpen! Gotta root for the local guy...I think I'll crack a coors to support you supporting your guy.
Huckster wrote:
I agree with this. Justin beat him last year on the 250's. Justin is a top 5 guy, contrary to the belief of our resident hater...
I agree with this. Justin beat him last year on the 250's. Justin is a top 5 guy, contrary to the belief of our resident hater, so its not going to be a cake walk for Tomac. He has the skill to be up there but going 30 +2 on a 450 is a different animal and don't discount the fact that this past summer/season it was unusually cool out.
visser62 wrote:
Justin beat him in overall points last year in the 250s, but Tomac was much faster. Tomac was Baggett's biggest threat in 2012, and he won...
Justin beat him in overall points last year in the 250s, but Tomac was much faster. Tomac was Baggett's biggest threat in 2012, and he won more races than Barcia. With an extra year, I think he will definitely be better outdoors. It's going to be a great year.
BUT? always a but......bottom line Justin beat him in the overall points last year. Damon Bradshaw was the fastest guy on the track for 2-3 years, how many titles did he win? Some still call JS7 the fastest guy alive for 1 lap, how's that working out......Being there week in and week out is the only way to win a championship. NOT saying Tomac can't do it, he is great rider, but lets see how he does in a full season on the 450 before we have him dethroning RV or running top 5 consistantly......

FYI, they actually split moto's last year with each doing better in 12/24 run.
bullpen658
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8/25/2013 2:45pm
I see that my post generated some lively debate and bench racing ammo. haha.

One of Eli's greatest strengths, in my opinion, is his mental strength. I think it is hard on some guys to go from winning and getting podiums consistently to having to battle tooth and nail for 6th place (which is a real possibility, considering the talent in the 450 class) but I don't think that will phase Eli (if that happens to him). He reminds me of Dungey in that regard. Both of them are consummate professionals and always seem to ride their own race. You don't see either of them allow emotions to get the best of them and cause them to ride over their head and subsequently crash very often. Dungey seems to be able to accept that he's the #2 or #3 guy (depending on the season) and yet he still pushes with everything he has all the way to the checkers. I admire that quality in him and I see the same drive in Eli.

I admittedly did not even think about Tomac's history of getting poor starts. He will definitely need to work on that for the 450 class because as several people mentioned, he will not be slicing through the pack like a warm knife through butter in the 450 class. I still think he will adjust to the 450 very quickly because he's ridden Hondas for so long already. It's gonna be great to watch and see how he does.
chrisbuehler
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8/25/2013 3:03pm
Once Tomac found his groove last season Barcia had nothing for him. This seasonTomac was prob 2 sec a lap faster than Barcia on a 250 and a rougher track
Huckster
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8/25/2013 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2013 3:37pm
Once Tomac found his groove last season Barcia had nothing for him. This seasonTomac was prob 2 sec a lap faster than Barcia on a 250...
Once Tomac found his groove last season Barcia had nothing for him. This seasonTomac was prob 2 sec a lap faster than Barcia on a 250 and a rougher track
apples to oranges comparison. You ride or used to. 450 is a totally different ball game. Tomac found his groove? maybe so but the season started at Hangtown and ended at Elsinore. They raced 24 motos on the SAME BIKE. Eli finished ahead in 12 and Justin finished ahead in 12 and ended the year with more points. Not sure about grooves but those are facts and to say Eli will have his # next year, is an assumption.....Oh and not that it matters, Justin beat him at Daytona as well......

You surely are entitled to your opinion though....
brimx153
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8/25/2013 4:39pm
Once Tomac found his groove last season Barcia had nothing for him. This seasonTomac was prob 2 sec a lap faster than Barcia on a 250...
Once Tomac found his groove last season Barcia had nothing for him. This seasonTomac was prob 2 sec a lap faster than Barcia on a 250 and a rougher track
Huckster wrote:
apples to oranges comparison. You ride or used to. 450 is a totally different ball game. Tomac found his groove? maybe so but the season started...
apples to oranges comparison. You ride or used to. 450 is a totally different ball game. Tomac found his groove? maybe so but the season started at Hangtown and ended at Elsinore. They raced 24 motos on the SAME BIKE. Eli finished ahead in 12 and Justin finished ahead in 12 and ended the year with more points. Not sure about grooves but those are facts and to say Eli will have his # next year, is an assumption.....Oh and not that it matters, Justin beat him at Daytona as well......

You surely are entitled to your opinion though....
so what your saying is that Eli cant improve in a yr , and he was going the same speed this year as last yr !!!!!!!!, crap , Eli improved big time this yr , barcia would have had nothing for him on the 250f this yr, IMO, Barica had an up and down yr really , he did great to finish 3 rd overall , but in nearly every race this yr , he was a mile behind the Ryans and JS7 most of the time , all year ,
brimx153
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8/25/2013 4:42pm
suzuki173 wrote:
He better get those starts figured out or he won't be seeing the two Ryans for long! But I think he has the speed to be...
He better get those starts figured out or he won't be seeing the two Ryans for long! But I think he has the speed to be in the lead pack if he starts with them
i think the big prob with his starts is , he weight , on the 450 that wont be a prob
Huckster
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8/25/2013 4:55pm
brimx153 wrote:
so what your saying is that Eli cant improve in a yr , and he was going the same speed this year as last yr...
so what your saying is that Eli cant improve in a yr , and he was going the same speed this year as last yr !!!!!!!!, crap , Eli improved big time this yr , barcia would have had nothing for him on the 250f this yr, IMO, Barica had an up and down yr really , he did great to finish 3 rd overall , but in nearly every race this yr , he was a mile behind the Ryans and JS7 most of the time , all year ,
Nope, not what I am saying at all. Of course RV yarded everyone by "mile" this year so I am not sure what races you were watching.....but to play along, are you saying Tomac got faster but Justin got slower? crap!!!!!!
mxracer34
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8/25/2013 7:28pm
Tomac will do great! His whole life he has been amazing and when he's down, he regroups and figures it out. Lets also remember that Tomac is one of the biggest guys in the 250 class and for sure the largest in the top 10 which is why, and he very often admits, is why he gets beat on the starts. He always says his jumps off the gate are great it's just his size and height that holds him up on the starts. He will be amazing on the 450. He will have his ups and downs, but that's racing and he will end Top 5....stamp it
dboivin
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8/25/2013 7:47pm
tomac's name will grace these pages for a lot of years to come. that dude is a beast. He reminds me of Larocco but faster/more talent....determined like the rock was tho.

I believe eli trains on the 450 because of dependability of the practice bike and altitude he rides at, don't think there will be much change in his performance once he makes the switch.
brimx153
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8/26/2013 4:48pm
brimx153 wrote:
so what your saying is that Eli cant improve in a yr , and he was going the same speed this year as last yr...
so what your saying is that Eli cant improve in a yr , and he was going the same speed this year as last yr !!!!!!!!, crap , Eli improved big time this yr , barcia would have had nothing for him on the 250f this yr, IMO, Barica had an up and down yr really , he did great to finish 3 rd overall , but in nearly every race this yr , he was a mile behind the Ryans and JS7 most of the time , all year ,
Huckster wrote:
Nope, not what I am saying at all. Of course RV yarded everyone by "mile" this year so I am not sure what races you were...
Nope, not what I am saying at all. Of course RV yarded everyone by "mile" this year so I am not sure what races you were watching.....but to play along, are you saying Tomac got faster but Justin got slower? crap!!!!!!
i dont think justin got slower , he has had a good yr ,first yr 450 and all , but he is still no way near RV/RD , plus JS7 had huge gap s on him alot too , i dont think Justin got any slower , i think ELI got faster a lot faster , and think outdoors he will be stright in the mix with RV and RD ,
Preston412
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Fantasy
8/26/2013 6:23pm
I will give the kid is due but will be what Barcia was this year. Consistent. as for podiums, it will be difficult his first year on the big bike given Ryan1 and Ryan2, James, Davi, trey and Justin
8/26/2013 6:29pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2013 6:29pm
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of...
I wish he'd stay on a 250 in the 450 class. I think moving guys up to 450's is uneccesary considering the current performance level of the factory 250's. Put the high end suspension allowed in the 450 class on a 250 for him and see what he can do.
thats why its the big boy class...riding bocephus.....in his prime....
not some young undersized steer......
8/26/2013 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2013 6:36pm
bullpen658 wrote:
I predict that if he can get through SX injury-free (not a small accomplishment for anyone), that he is going to be a serious threat in...
I predict that if he can get through SX injury-free (not a small accomplishment for anyone), that he is going to be a serious threat in the outdoors.....even against the two Ryans. The smartest thing he did was sign with the Geico Honda squad. That is a LOT less to have to adjust to than if he had moved to a different team or worse, an entire different brand of motorcycle. He'll have the same people around him, the same routine, etc.

I don't mean to discount his SX skills because I believe he could be a threat there too but based on the history of this sport, most people not named MC do not go up to the big boy class and immediately dominate in SX. He will have the fitness to handle the 450, the longer mains, and the longer season, but keeping it on two wheels is the hard part.

I'm really looking forward to seeing his race craft continue to evolve and improve. I'm a huge fan.

I'm gonna go eat some pizza now to celebrate....and drink some coors because coors is from Colorado and so are the Tomacs.
good on you....now dont throw a shoulder out patting yourself on the back! HaHa..LOL
the return of the old bam bam is in store....cause somebody wants to remain honderz top 4fiddy rider....
chrisbuehler
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8/26/2013 8:35pm
brimx153 wrote:
i dont think justin got slower , he has had a good yr ,first yr 450 and all , but he is still no way near...
i dont think justin got slower , he has had a good yr ,first yr 450 and all , but he is still no way near RV/RD , plus JS7 had huge gap s on him alot too , i dont think Justin got any slower , i think ELI got faster a lot faster , and think outdoors he will be stright in the mix with RV and RD ,
Agree
8/26/2013 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2013 8:57pm
My prediction is that he won't make it through the SX season healthy.

It's grim, and I certainly don't want it to happen, but 17 races on a factory bike is a ton for a rookie teenager that is used to winning everything.
Wright_36
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8/26/2013 8:57pm
Eli's switch to the 450 will be much smoother than others. He doesn't have to switch teams and he already trains on a 450. Supercross I don't see him making a huge splash his rookie year but outdoors I think he will be up there with the Ryan's.
8/26/2013 9:28pm
I hope he uses 2014 SX & MX as a learning year. IMO too many rookies try to go balls out & then injure themselves. I would hate to see this happen to such a talented rider who should be able to make it interesting at the front of the 450 class in the future.
How much does training at altitude help Eli perform & will, should, more pro riders do it.
smoker
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8/26/2013 9:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2013 9:47pm
He'll do great but you're high if you think he'll be anywhere near rv indoors or out.
JB 19
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8/26/2013 9:47pm
I don't think it will happen next year, but I think he is the next guy to raise the bar and evolve the sport at the premier level. He is outrageously skilled and has a world champion father to guide him. It's almost unfair when you think about it.

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