Lost in the Pulp shuffle: RV calling the accusers out

SpeedyR
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7/24/2013 11:42am
GuyB wrote:
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong. I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was...
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong.

I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was pretty easy to see when people were doing things that they shouldn't be doing, but there always was the element of people pointing fingers without any basis for it, just because a person was winning.

Occasionally, some of the people at the highest levels are, to put it simply, genetic freaks. A bunch of you probably aren't familiar with Ned Overend, but he and John Tomac used to battle back before in the day. I'd described Ned as a pair of lungs with legs attached, and that probably wasn't far from the truth.
Ned, Tomac and other top level riders were crazy. Tomas Frischkinect or however you spell it was another. even some big mountain climbers were just freaks of nature. Bit given the money involved in many sports (mostly stick and ball stuff) it's not that surprising that folks want to "up their game" a bit, especially if they think they can get away with it...

I've been away from top level for a while but the most I had heard about a few years ago was teams putting IV"s in riders between motos are hard events. Mainly hydration as it's hard to keep hydrated when you do that type of effort for that long back to back. I don't see any riders in motos with camelbacks. lol.
CAB214
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7/24/2013 11:46am
wacker wrote:
Did anyone watch the same Washougal as I did? The reason RV won was because he never let off. Ever. If ped's give your throttle hand...
Did anyone watch the same Washougal as I did? The reason RV won was because he never let off. Ever. If ped's give your throttle hand the ability to twist farther then maybe they could have helped him. I believe there are plenty of guys out there who are equally as fit as RV and Dungey. Their only problem is they don't go fast enough.
This is completely wrong. Like GuyB said, some are genetic freaks but even a genetic freak can always use more. PEDs make you sharper and stronger in every category. Overall strength, endurance and focus (reaction times). Even if PEDs only amount to milliseconds a lap after years of training and perfecting your craft. This can be the slight boost you are looking for when trying to shave a few seconds off an overall moto time. It adds up. Sharper, stronger, faster recovery. There is more to it than twisting your hand back or no one would ever need to workout.

What really sucks is the guy who works just as hard but can never maintain RVs level because he just doesn’t have the natural test or HGH levels to sustain that level of fitness. These are the people that can benefit the most.

I think you would all be surprised if you could see behind the curtain and learn just how common place PEDs are. Maybe you aren’t on them right now so you can say "hell yea, I dare you to test me” but I have a hard time believing in your entire moto career as a top athlete you would never have tried it once.
Mike D
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7/24/2013 12:04pm
GuyB wrote:
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong. I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was...
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong.

I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was pretty easy to see when people were doing things that they shouldn't be doing, but there always was the element of people pointing fingers without any basis for it, just because a person was winning.

Occasionally, some of the people at the highest levels are, to put it simply, genetic freaks. A bunch of you probably aren't familiar with Ned Overend, but he and John Tomac used to battle back before in the day. I'd described Ned as a pair of lungs with legs attached, and that probably wasn't far from the truth.
Ned was the man! " work on the up hills, rest on the down hills"

He said that once and those words still ring through my head each time I ride a bicycle!
7/24/2013 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 12:06pm
Mitch's point about PEDs not making any difference for guys that could not at least hang up front for at least the first 10 minutes was...
Mitch's point about PEDs not making any difference for guys that could not at least hang up front for at least the first 10 minutes was pretty good. Translation, if you haven't got the speed off the gate, anyway, PEDs will only help you run a few seconds a lap slower, longer.
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?

The Shop

trilandun
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7/24/2013 12:09pm
I think we should split motocross and supercross into 4 divisions; 450 and 250 modified riders and 450 and 250 stock riders Laughing

Let the modified riders use whatever they want and test the stock riders.

It would be interesting to see the lap time differences...
jimmie
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7/24/2013 12:18pm
Peds?

Villopoto?

I obviously don't keep up with the rumor BS, but that never even crossed my mind. This is just stupid crazy! Who ever is questioning Villopoto's success needs to find a hobby or something.Unsure
7/24/2013 12:18pm
RV was saying basically put up $100k. That is basically his win bonus for washougal last weekend. If a team thinks he is cheating, put up the $100k and he will match it. He will either double his money or you will get his win bonus (along with derailing his season and entire career). 100k isn't that much in the grand scheme for what they are talking about
WhipMeister
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7/24/2013 12:21pm
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that...
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
-eagle-
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7/24/2013 12:23pm
Here are a few references on the topic:
victor conte JRE podcast
30 for 30 ben johnson
bigger stronger faster documentary,
national geographic cycling high: doping to win
RacerX Virtual Trainer PED's
CNN also had a decent one on Lance.

Keep in mind while some dudes were going the havasu route in the 90's; others were getting elective arm pump surgeries and were open about getting iv's between motos. careful what you wish for here, its a very slippery slope.
7/24/2013 12:26pm
Its easy to pull the "put up or shut up" card when you can throw 6 figure numbers around like its nothing. Im not saying I think he is doping but I am saying if I was and wanted to counter someones finger pointing, Id throw out a ridiculous number that I know no one is going to be willing to pay.
DocMarten
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7/24/2013 12:29pm
jimmie wrote:
Peds? Villopoto? I obviously don't keep up with the rumor BS, but that never even crossed my mind. This is just stupid crazy! Who ever is...
Peds?

Villopoto?

I obviously don't keep up with the rumor BS, but that never even crossed my mind. This is just stupid crazy! Who ever is questioning Villopoto's success needs to find a hobby or something.Unsure
Yeah, using logic to question someones abiltiies, especially when you consider the type of trainer hes working with is just dumb.

Pro athletes getting paid millions of dollars per year would never consider cheating Whistling
Bruce372
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7/24/2013 12:35pm
so let me get this straight.

raised testosterone levels wouldnt aid with aggression on the track, giving a performance advantage on lap times?

raised testosterone, and the use of other steroids (can be done off season too), wouldnt enable a rider to train harder,and recover better with less chance of overtraining and injury- being able to ride more wouldnt help a rider perfect their technique to get better lap times?

the use of growth hormone wouldnt help lean muscle mass, reaction times, better sight etc. and this wouldnt help laptimes?

the use of EPO blood boosters to increase the oxygen carrying capacity to the muscles, wouldnt help lap times, especially not 30 mins into one of the most intense, and physically demanding sports?

the use of clenbuterol to get a really lean body, wouldnt help a rider to have a better power to weight ratio and this wouldnt help during starts or lap times?

the use of amphetamines or other stimulants, wouldnt enable mental clarity and focus that would lead to better lap times?

nor would those amphetamines and other stimulants take away the boredom of training for hours everyday, the sort of training that gives better lap times?

none of those stimulants wouldnt help with weight loss i assume?


its funny that the industry/teams dont think there is any performance gain to be had- i am having deja vu from bike riding.

as for testing, i think it was Rasmussen that one said, they arent drug tests, they are IQ tests. Its not like MX can even test for lead in fuel properly!!!
7/24/2013 12:37pm
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that...
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
Except PED's will help you do both better.
JBlain619
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7/24/2013 12:45pm
GuyB wrote:
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong. I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was...
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong.

I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was pretty easy to see when people were doing things that they shouldn't be doing, but there always was the element of people pointing fingers without any basis for it, just because a person was winning.

Occasionally, some of the people at the highest levels are, to put it simply, genetic freaks. A bunch of you probably aren't familiar with Ned Overend, but he and John Tomac used to battle back before in the day. I'd described Ned as a pair of lungs with legs attached, and that probably wasn't far from the truth.
I agree with your last statement but...I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of arguement.

Lance Armstrong said the same exact things RV is saying now. Could the reason be that he knows a blood test won't reveal anything??? Look at the circumstances. His trainer comes from the cycling, arguably the most corrupt sport in all of sports ewspecially when it comes from PED's. RV has the direct connection through Aldon to get whatever the newest, latest, greatest, and undetectable. Yes he has the means and the ability to have them.

Does he do them??? Not my place to judge him. He says he doesn't so until proven otherwise, I believe him. BUT...I believed Lance as well.

Honestly, I dont care if he does them or not. He's one hell of a rider and i enjoy watching him ride regardless. IMO I think they(ped's) should be legal in professional athletics. Again, just my opinion.
CAB214
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7/24/2013 1:42pm
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that...
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
Hand-eye coordination, reaction times, strength and muscle memory.

You're stupid.
CAB214
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7/24/2013 1:46pm
Bruce372 wrote:
so let me get this straight. raised testosterone levels wouldnt aid with aggression on the track, giving a performance advantage on lap times? raised testosterone, and...
so let me get this straight.

raised testosterone levels wouldnt aid with aggression on the track, giving a performance advantage on lap times?

raised testosterone, and the use of other steroids (can be done off season too), wouldnt enable a rider to train harder,and recover better with less chance of overtraining and injury- being able to ride more wouldnt help a rider perfect their technique to get better lap times?

the use of growth hormone wouldnt help lean muscle mass, reaction times, better sight etc. and this wouldnt help laptimes?

the use of EPO blood boosters to increase the oxygen carrying capacity to the muscles, wouldnt help lap times, especially not 30 mins into one of the most intense, and physically demanding sports?

the use of clenbuterol to get a really lean body, wouldnt help a rider to have a better power to weight ratio and this wouldnt help during starts or lap times?

the use of amphetamines or other stimulants, wouldnt enable mental clarity and focus that would lead to better lap times?

nor would those amphetamines and other stimulants take away the boredom of training for hours everyday, the sort of training that gives better lap times?

none of those stimulants wouldnt help with weight loss i assume?


its funny that the industry/teams dont think there is any performance gain to be had- i am having deja vu from bike riding.

as for testing, i think it was Rasmussen that one said, they arent drug tests, they are IQ tests. Its not like MX can even test for lead in fuel properly!!!
Nailed it! ^
WhipMeister
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7/24/2013 3:47pm
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that...
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
CAB214 wrote:
Hand-eye coordination, reaction times, strength and muscle memory.

You're stupid.
Wow. Roid rage?

That means you think Mitch Payton is stupid, too.

I guess you'll be the one putting up the $100k against RV's $100k? I wanna see this.

It is refreshing to see that the board has returned to its normal level of Vitardism.
WhipMeister
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7/24/2013 3:51pm
RV made it pretty clear. If any one of you jackasses (or all of you pool your money together, if you like) will write a $100,000 check to him, he'll write one to you. He will then undergo whatever PED test WADA uses, administered by any accredited testing clinic. Loser tears up their check and winner cashes theirs.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Deal?
7/24/2013 3:57pm
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that...
Not really that is a retread of the lame baseball line from the 90's "steroids doesn't help you hit a 96 MPH fastball". How has that all turned out.?
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
CAB214 wrote:
Hand-eye coordination, reaction times, strength and muscle memory.

You're stupid.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, How soon we forget, WhipMeister is a genuis, he just has rose colored glasses on this topic.
WhipMeister
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7/24/2013 3:59pm
There is absolutely no comparison between 10 minutes of motocross track time and taking a swing with a bat at a fastball. None.
CAB214 wrote:
Hand-eye coordination, reaction times, strength and muscle memory.

You're stupid.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, How soon we forget, WhipMeister is a genuis, he just has rose colored glasses on this topic.
Money.

Mouth.


Money.

Mouth.
7/24/2013 4:02pm
RV made it pretty clear. If any one of you jackasses (or all of you pool your money together, if you like) will write a $100,000...
RV made it pretty clear. If any one of you jackasses (or all of you pool your money together, if you like) will write a $100,000 check to him, he'll write one to you. He will then undergo whatever PED test WADA uses, administered by any accredited testing clinic. Loser tears up their check and winner cashes theirs.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Deal?
And Ryan Braun said he would bet his life that "that substance"didn't enter his body. I haven't seen the obituary yet and I am sure if RV was one of the PED users he wouldn't back this up either. Many athletes have made these sorts of bold claims and have been proven to be liars. MX is no different than any other professional sport.
had2comment
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7/24/2013 4:15pm
Bruce372 wrote:
so let me get this straight. raised testosterone levels wouldnt aid with aggression on the track, giving a performance advantage on lap times? raised testosterone, and...
so let me get this straight.

raised testosterone levels wouldnt aid with aggression on the track, giving a performance advantage on lap times?

raised testosterone, and the use of other steroids (can be done off season too), wouldnt enable a rider to train harder,and recover better with less chance of overtraining and injury- being able to ride more wouldnt help a rider perfect their technique to get better lap times?

the use of growth hormone wouldnt help lean muscle mass, reaction times, better sight etc. and this wouldnt help laptimes?

the use of EPO blood boosters to increase the oxygen carrying capacity to the muscles, wouldnt help lap times, especially not 30 mins into one of the most intense, and physically demanding sports?

the use of clenbuterol to get a really lean body, wouldnt help a rider to have a better power to weight ratio and this wouldnt help during starts or lap times?

the use of amphetamines or other stimulants, wouldnt enable mental clarity and focus that would lead to better lap times?

nor would those amphetamines and other stimulants take away the boredom of training for hours everyday, the sort of training that gives better lap times?

none of those stimulants wouldnt help with weight loss i assume?


its funny that the industry/teams dont think there is any performance gain to be had- i am having deja vu from bike riding.

as for testing, i think it was Rasmussen that one said, they arent drug tests, they are IQ tests. Its not like MX can even test for lead in fuel properly!!!
CAB214 wrote:
Nailed it! ^
^ Bingo

Doping in MX has been going on for years. It was worse in Europe. Some of you guys and your comments are whack. Ryan Braun in MLB will go to the grave saying he never used the stuff. If someone was accusing me of PED's I would say the same thing RV is saying.

Guys do your home work before opening your mouths. There is a reason why a team is bringing it up. There is also a reason why some of the teams are down playing the fact that using wouldn't help out.

MX can not afford a hit like a PED scandal. It's far to small and would jeopardize outside sponsors. I will assume what I want but it will never be brought to light. This topic no longer needs to be discussed if you know what is good for the sport. Make your own judgments.
35smom
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7/24/2013 4:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 4:20pm
RV made it pretty clear. If any one of you jackasses (or all of you pool your money together, if you like) will write a $100,000...
RV made it pretty clear. If any one of you jackasses (or all of you pool your money together, if you like) will write a $100,000 check to him, he'll write one to you. He will then undergo whatever PED test WADA uses, administered by any accredited testing clinic. Loser tears up their check and winner cashes theirs.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Deal?
And Ryan Braun said he would bet his life that "that substance"didn't enter his body. I haven't seen the obituary yet and I am sure if...
And Ryan Braun said he would bet his life that "that substance"didn't enter his body. I haven't seen the obituary yet and I am sure if RV was one of the PED users he wouldn't back this up either. Many athletes have made these sorts of bold claims and have been proven to be liars. MX is no different than any other professional sport.
Ryan Braun was told(like the others involved) Cryogenisis did not contain illegal enhancing performance additives. Well guess what it did and now they have to stand up for what they were told. Come on have you ever seen those adds? Its not the case with RV. Believe me he knows what he can take and not take.
I can bet you if someone said " I don't have 100K but I have 10K to put up he would do the same thing. Hes using it as an example of his seriousness not as a bluff.
Like its been said these riders were at the top of the game their whole career. Why should it be any different as a Pro?
BobbyM
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7/24/2013 4:23pm
I think he's sick of being questioned because he is winning. Pay for the test, put up some money, and he'll take a blood test. Is...
I think he's sick of being questioned because he is winning. Pay for the test, put up some money, and he'll take a blood test.

Is anyone man enough to put their money where their mouth is?
RV doesn't need any extra meds or whatever to dominant. he was obviously born with a huge set of hairy boys. Big balls with a desire to totally dominate the comp is a hard combo to beat.
Rooster
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7/24/2013 4:28pm
Lance failed a few tests. They just used threats, intimidation and influence to cover up or negate the results.

They also retested some of his older blood with newer tests and found it wasn't legal.
zippy895
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7/24/2013 4:37pm
GuyB wrote:
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong. I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was...
I've heard more than once that RV is eager to step up and prove people wrong.

I've covered MTB racing at the National/World/Olympic level. It was pretty easy to see when people were doing things that they shouldn't be doing, but there always was the element of people pointing fingers without any basis for it, just because a person was winning.

Occasionally, some of the people at the highest levels are, to put it simply, genetic freaks. A bunch of you probably aren't familiar with Ned Overend, but he and John Tomac used to battle back before in the day. I'd described Ned as a pair of lungs with legs attached, and that probably wasn't far from the truth.
I don't do those drugs,and recently ive been winning in my respective mtb class.diet and weight lose are my drugs.lol .but friends and fellow racers are half ass breaking my balls saying im on something .I look at it as a compliment.one friend has this freaking test kit bigger than a carry on, who wants to test me.lol.
but yes, genetic freaks are out there and I do not claim to be one...now ezra lusk,he qualifies as one.or for that matter,his youngest son is a freak of nature/genetic freak.!
zippy895
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7/24/2013 4:48pm
drugs will not "make you fast".
if anything,they will give stamina,sustained endurance,strength....those kinds of help.
they don't give you super human eye site that makes things appear in slow motion or make your timing razor sharp or produce more holeshots.or makes the bike handle better or gives one the ability to hook up( traction) better.
it doesn't tell the brain ,"danger ahead,switch up your line" or if I rail this turn wfo and bounce off that rut afterwords,it will set me up to miss that mud hole and so on.
now if you are already skilled to ride like a beast,drugs will make life easier ,because the beast can be released for the full moto or motos w/ least amount of resistance.
Parris
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7/24/2013 4:52pm
These days if your going to do something illegal you have to act alone. If there is more than one person involved in a crime the chances of getting caught sooner or later pretty much a guarantee.
7/24/2013 5:00pm
No one?

I'd almost point to Adderall as the drug that could benefit racers the most. That would be picked up in a urine test.

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