Lost in the Pulp shuffle: RV calling the accusers out

sundios
Posts
646
Joined
4/12/2008
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
7/24/2013 5:09pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 5:09pm
RV, peds?

What is he doing that looks so unreal? winning?
he has won every single championship and he has been fast since he was on minis.

The weird thing would be seeing a top 5 or 6 going as fast as him every moto and start beating him. That would be questionable.

Did anybody in RC era said that he might be using something? He was unbeatable, won like 10 championships in a row, had 2 perfect seasons.

even when he said that he was going to retire and race only 5 races or something like that. He dominated every race.

So i think that the one that is questioning RV is someone that doesn't like to see him winning or Tony alessi hahah.
7/24/2013 5:13pm
Anyone know who the vast majority of baseball players that get busted are?
Crush
Posts
20957
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
7/24/2013 5:29pm
I think it's BS to accuse RV...

He's won every step of the way since he was a scrawny little 16 year old.

Was he doping then?

The Shop

steed 2.0
Posts
3485
Joined
9/27/2012
Location
Brabant NL
7/24/2013 5:33pm
-eagle- wrote:
Here are a few references on the topic: victor conte JRE podcast 30 for 30 ben johnson bigger stronger faster documentary, national geographic cycling high: doping...
Here are a few references on the topic:
victor conte JRE podcast
30 for 30 ben johnson
bigger stronger faster documentary,
national geographic cycling high: doping to win
RacerX Virtual Trainer PED's
CNN also had a decent one on Lance.

Keep in mind while some dudes were going the havasu route in the 90's; others were getting elective arm pump surgeries and were open about getting iv's between motos. careful what you wish for here, its a very slippery slope.
KennyT
Posts
4181
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
280th
7/24/2013 5:46pm
Why would anyone put up money for testing when Lance proved for years that testing means nothing? This is something that will only be proven when someone on the offending riders team comes forward, and when that person does he will be banished from the sport.
Crush
Posts
20957
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
7/24/2013 5:55pm
KennyT wrote:
Why would anyone put up money for testing when Lance proved for years that testing means nothing? This is something that will only be proven when...
Why would anyone put up money for testing when Lance proved for years that testing means nothing? This is something that will only be proven when someone on the offending riders team comes forward, and when that person does he will be banished from the sport.
That's actually a really good point...

As much as anything it's probably just a cost driver to bring it in... They've then gotta improve methods of doing it, testing it etc...

I also question it form a pure visual stand point.

Look at the people who have been done for doping in other sports. Armstrong, Johnson. They're so freakin ripped and lean it isn't funny. RV and Dungey are about the only ones who look that fit in MX. The rest look like average dudes!
Outsider
Posts
10634
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
7/24/2013 6:08pm
I just don't see all this heavy drug use people seem to think is going on.

Steroids? Maybe in the off season... last thing you want on a bike is the sweet ass pump you're going to get with these.

GH? Again, maybe in the off season for recovery.

EPO? Don't know enough about this but, it's moto not mountain stages in the TDF. I could see it helping though.

IV's? I could see that for sure, but maybe the guys actually follow the rules, and don't, what a concept.

IMO, a 20 something year old being trained by someone like Aldon is going to get all the benefits he can use.. naturally.
smeg
Posts
1096
Joined
2/13/2011
Location
Washington, DC US
7/24/2013 6:26pm
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................

Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either ignorant of the facts, kidding themselves or straight-up lying. PEDs' would be an advantage to any athlete in any sport that has physical demands placed on the contestants.

Period........................
Adam43
Posts
3184
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
7/24/2013 6:43pm
Outsider wrote:
I just don't see all this heavy drug use people seem to think is going on. Steroids? Maybe in the off season... last thing you want...
I just don't see all this heavy drug use people seem to think is going on.

Steroids? Maybe in the off season... last thing you want on a bike is the sweet ass pump you're going to get with these.

GH? Again, maybe in the off season for recovery.

EPO? Don't know enough about this but, it's moto not mountain stages in the TDF. I could see it helping though.

IV's? I could see that for sure, but maybe the guys actually follow the rules, and don't, what a concept.

IMO, a 20 something year old being trained by someone like Aldon is going to get all the benefits he can use.. naturally.
Yes. They all pay Aldon $250,000 a year so he can tell them how many motos to ride, how much to bicycle, and not too eat bad food. Nothing more.
TeamGreen
Posts
28971
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
7/24/2013 6:49pm
Outsider wrote:
I just don't see all this heavy drug use people seem to think is going on. Steroids? Maybe in the off season... last thing you want...
I just don't see all this heavy drug use people seem to think is going on.

Steroids? Maybe in the off season... last thing you want on a bike is the sweet ass pump you're going to get with these.

GH? Again, maybe in the off season for recovery.

EPO? Don't know enough about this but, it's moto not mountain stages in the TDF. I could see it helping though.

IV's? I could see that for sure, but maybe the guys actually follow the rules, and don't, what a concept.

IMO, a 20 something year old being trained by someone like Aldon is going to get all the benefits he can use.. naturally.
Adam43 wrote:
Yes. They all pay Aldon $250,000 a year so he can tell them how many motos to ride, how much to bicycle, and not too eat...
Yes. They all pay Aldon $250,000 a year so he can tell them how many motos to ride, how much to bicycle, and not too eat bad food. Nothing more.
So, Aldon get's $250,000 a year from multiple riders? OK

And he has them all on PEDs? OK.

Got it.

So, uh, you wanna tell us how you KNOW this?

Or, are you just COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT?

Oh, OK.

Got it!
WhipMeister
Posts
5088
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX US
Fantasy
4408th
7/24/2013 6:51pm
smeg wrote:
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................ Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either...
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................

Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either ignorant of the facts, kidding themselves or straight-up lying. PEDs' would be an advantage to any athlete in any sport that has physical demands placed on the contestants.

Period........................
Dude, if you think you can prove it and can convince me you can, I'll put up the $100k and split the winnings with you.
7/24/2013 7:07pm
All of you pointing at Lance in support of your argument that RV must be cheating and that tests can easily be beaten are forgetting the dozens of riders that were caught and banned from the TdF.

Relevant article I read today talking about testing in the NFL:

A Step Toward HGH Testing
Coyote
Posts
1481
Joined
10/30/2009
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/24/2013 7:20pm
wacker wrote:
Did anyone watch the same Washougal as I did? The reason RV won was because he never let off. Ever. If ped's give your throttle hand...
Did anyone watch the same Washougal as I did? The reason RV won was because he never let off. Ever. If ped's give your throttle hand the ability to twist farther then maybe they could have helped him. I believe there are plenty of guys out there who are equally as fit as RV and Dungey. Their only problem is they don't go fast enough.
PEDs don't frikking make you twist the throttle and that and only that is what RVs been doing, Washougal and all the rest of em!!
smeg
Posts
1096
Joined
2/13/2011
Location
Washington, DC US
7/24/2013 7:36pm
smeg wrote:
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................ Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either...
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................

Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either ignorant of the facts, kidding themselves or straight-up lying. PEDs' would be an advantage to any athlete in any sport that has physical demands placed on the contestants.

Period........................
Dude, if you think you can prove it and can convince me you can, I'll put up the $100k and split the winnings with you.
The evidence speaks for itself................ Bonds, Armstrong, Jones, ect (there are a multitude that could be listed)............... Let see... That's pro athletes that cover all aspects of performance.... hand-eye coordination, endurance, burst energy(?)

They are called Performance Enhancing Drugs for a reason.

LOL.... if you think Performance Enhancing Drugs don't increase performance there is no point trying to prove it to you.

You are aware that athletes at that level work with trainers and sports medicine people(read scientists) on a daily basis right?
Yea........ Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones took PEDs' just for the hell of it. Not because it actually helped to increase their performance.

I don't have to prove it......... It has already been proven, time and time again.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
7/24/2013 7:39pm
OMG....I friggin' love this thread! And am going to slam it into the face of some dudes that have been talking shit for last few years! HAHA!.....fucking love it!
Outsider
Posts
10634
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
7/24/2013 7:40pm
smeg wrote:
The evidence speaks for itself................ Bonds, Armstrong, Jones, ect (there are a multitude that could be listed)............... Let see... That's pro athletes that cover all aspects...
The evidence speaks for itself................ Bonds, Armstrong, Jones, ect (there are a multitude that could be listed)............... Let see... That's pro athletes that cover all aspects of performance.... hand-eye coordination, endurance, burst energy(?)

They are called Performance Enhancing Drugs for a reason.

LOL.... if you think Performance Enhancing Drugs don't increase performance there is no point trying to prove it to you.

You are aware that athletes at that level work with trainers and sports medicine people(read scientists) on a daily basis right?
Yea........ Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones took PEDs' just for the hell of it. Not because it actually helped to increase their performance.

I don't have to prove it......... It has already been proven, time and time again.
LA was riding bicycles up mountains... not quite the same as 30+2 on a MOTORcycle.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
7/24/2013 7:43pm
smeg wrote:
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................ Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either...
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................

Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either ignorant of the facts, kidding themselves or straight-up lying. PEDs' would be an advantage to any athlete in any sport that has physical demands placed on the contestants.

Period........................
Dude, if you think you can prove it and can convince me you can, I'll put up the $100k and split the winnings with you.
smeg wrote:
The evidence speaks for itself................ Bonds, Armstrong, Jones, ect (there are a multitude that could be listed)............... Let see... That's pro athletes that cover all aspects...
The evidence speaks for itself................ Bonds, Armstrong, Jones, ect (there are a multitude that could be listed)............... Let see... That's pro athletes that cover all aspects of performance.... hand-eye coordination, endurance, burst energy(?)

They are called Performance Enhancing Drugs for a reason.

LOL.... if you think Performance Enhancing Drugs don't increase performance there is no point trying to prove it to you.

You are aware that athletes at that level work with trainers and sports medicine people(read scientists) on a daily basis right?
Yea........ Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones took PEDs' just for the hell of it. Not because it actually helped to increase their performance.

I don't have to prove it......... It has already been proven, time and time again.
Yeah....we know. And still RV is putting a wager up to ANYONE to prove he's been using PED's!

Not one taker I've seen or heard about.

Like it was stated before.........I remember hearing the very next day about how WADA showed up at RV's house........and then randomly tested him for a year. Nothing. Nothing as far as any kind of ped's could be found.......and yet he was still out there kicking ass.

If WADA can't prove it..........who the fuck can?
smeg
Posts
1096
Joined
2/13/2011
Location
Washington, DC US
7/24/2013 7:48pm
I am not saying RV is on PEDs'.................... Only that it has been proven PEDS' increase performance.

Personally I don't think RV is on PEDs'

But to say PEDs' can't/won't help an athlete is ignorant. Racers are athletes, they can/would benefit from there use.
To think differently is showing a blatant ignorance of modern sports science.
dantheman
Posts
1151
Joined
3/23/2013
Location
AZ
7/24/2013 7:49pm
Well, does this mean the Dunge' is taking PED's to? He is so close to RV, and sometimes faster, or does he get a "nice guy" pass from the "RV has to be on PED's" critics?
smeg
Posts
1096
Joined
2/13/2011
Location
Washington, DC US
7/24/2013 7:51pm
...... and by the way WADA couldn't prove Armstrong was on PEDs'.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
7/24/2013 7:56pm
smeg wrote:
...... and by the way WADA couldn't prove Armstrong was on PEDs'.
RV does NOT have the resources that guys like Armstrong had. Not even close.

I really , really dig what Mitch had to say last night , and I'll try to type it out the way I heard it.......

Mitch Payton :" A guy using PED's won't make him any faster. If he's a few seconds off the pace at the beginning of the moto........he'll just be a few seconds off the pace for a few laps longer. PED's won't help with speed.....it's all rider "
smeg
Posts
1096
Joined
2/13/2011
Location
Washington, DC US
7/24/2013 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 8:06pm
I agree mostly with what Mitch said.

Do I think Peds can potentially make a rider(some riders, not every rider) finish a 30 minute moto 10 seconds faster overall............. without a doubt.

RV is a multimillionaire................... He has whatever resources he wants.... don't kid yourself
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
7/24/2013 8:17pm
smeg wrote:
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................ Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either...
Not saying it is happening one way or the other but I will say........................

Anyone who thinks/states PEDs' wouldn't help a professional MX/SX racer is either ignorant of the facts, kidding themselves or straight-up lying. PEDs' would be an advantage to any athlete in any sport that has physical demands placed on the contestants.

Period........................
Dude, if you think you can prove it and can convince me you can, I'll put up the $100k and split the winnings with you.
the whole argument is illogical whip.

IF RV was clean, he could put up ANY money--a 100k, a million, a billion, and it would make no difference. He's put up a number that nobody can take the chance of being wrong about.

IF he is clean, why not offer 100k versus testing money? You put up the testing money and he gives the blood. He fails you get 100k. He doesn't fail and there is no more question on the subject.

The 100k bet actually proves he's more than likely pulling a Lance. Stamp it.

Don't believe it? You be fooled. BoobyM is dubm enuf to think that just having large hariy textikles makes an unbetable champiun. He ain't known four hiz brainz.
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
7/24/2013 8:19pm
dantheman wrote:
Well, does this mean the Dunge' is taking PED's to? He is so close to RV, and sometimes faster, or does he get a "nice guy"...
Well, does this mean the Dunge' is taking PED's to? He is so close to RV, and sometimes faster, or does he get a "nice guy" pass from the "RV has to be on PED's" critics?
could be...but, he's always a fraction off. Makes more sense that the guy that can't be beat is the guy that is crossing the line.
Hank_Thrill
Posts
4506
Joined
9/22/2008
Location
Arlen, TX US
7/24/2013 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 8:30pm
Aldon didn't just whip the boy into shape before the 2011 Supercross season.

It takes years to build up strength and endurance to the level RV is currently at.

This is RV's third year working with Aldon, and that work is starting to shine.
7/24/2013 8:32pm
Isn't JW on the same program? If he is, he's the only rider thats not dominant with Aldon as a trainer. Even BB isn't the same anymore.
Insider347
Posts
515
Joined
2/21/2012
Location
Raleigh, NC US
7/24/2013 8:41pm
I have to agree with Smeg on this one, PED's will help a racer. It's not just take them and go faster but what it helps you accomplish, working out, riding more, focus longer etc. and in return you will get faster.

I don't think RV is taking them, he is just an animal!!

I think the biggest thing that probably is going on and I say MAYBE (just guessing) is the amount of young kids coming up now that are on Adderall, Vyvanse, Concerta etc. My son is taking it for ADHD and it seems like every other kid in his school is too. Let me tell you that these are prescribed a lot these days and they definitely help one focus and stay on point. I don't think they are in any way a big advantage for MX but if they are illegal or considered a PED by the AMA or MXSports then it could be an issue if they ever test. Just something I thought of.
7/24/2013 9:16pm
Bruce372 wrote:
"Never tested positive"- Lance
Not quite true. He passed the drug test at the time but he failed in the end.

That's why he admitted it.

I am trying to remember but at the time of Lance racing they did not have a way to test for blood doping which is what he was doing. But they have kept all his blood samples from the years past.

Now they have a way to test for it and when they went back and tested the past samples guess what they found. That's why he caved.

I think they need a history of sample to test from too. So any rider blood doping could take a sample today and pass, but if they pull blood for a period of time it will surface.

Those guys were doing crazy crap like blood transfusions I think. They would give their own blood during the week and swap it out between races. Simply amazing.

One thing the top guys are more than likely doing is getting IV's between the motos. According to JT this helps big time. But only guys with their own motorhomes and somebody (trainer) to give it to them can do it. I believe they can test for that too, but they would have to pull a little blood right before they went to the gate for the 2nd moto to check.
WhipMeister
Posts
5088
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX US
Fantasy
4408th
7/24/2013 9:24pm
txmxer wrote:
the whole argument is illogical whip. IF RV was clean, he could put up ANY money--a 100k, a million, a billion, and it would make no...
the whole argument is illogical whip.

IF RV was clean, he could put up ANY money--a 100k, a million, a billion, and it would make no difference. He's put up a number that nobody can take the chance of being wrong about.

IF he is clean, why not offer 100k versus testing money? You put up the testing money and he gives the blood. He fails you get 100k. He doesn't fail and there is no more question on the subject.

The 100k bet actually proves he's more than likely pulling a Lance. Stamp it.

Don't believe it? You be fooled. BoobyM is dubm enuf to think that just having large hariy textikles makes an unbetable champiun. He ain't known four hiz brainz.
That's the lamest argument I ever heard.

I already said I'd put it up. The only person you have to convince is me. I'll split the take 50-50.

Post a reply to: Lost in the Pulp shuffle: RV calling the accusers out

The Latest