After watching Decotis

SMITH201
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6/29/2013 9:10pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
Yuuuup!
sharkey
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6/29/2013 10:19pm
x3
sharkey
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6/29/2013 10:28pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th...
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th which is extremely respectable in a really strong series after struggling over here,it goes to show that taking on the other championship is way harder than people think,like many people,he didn't realise how fast the GP guys in what theyre all used to,same with the US boys in the Nationals,the two things are so diferrent,big respect for Jimmy doing it,im a fan for sureSmile

The US guys have to be at an advantage when riders come over into the AMA series from their own GP championship and go up against them,it stands to reason,

Roczen and Marvin did great here,then go over and run upfront there too,Herlings wouldn't be any different,Tomac and Baggett would do great over here,they'd all need to adust and get to grips with things though,maybe one day a top rider will come and take it on
unfortunately the only way that will ever happen is if they paid well in the gps which we all know will never happen so we will never see that. the only guys coming over will be the ones who are in trouble over here.or if by some miracles some top guy retires early here and decides to try it
6/30/2013 12:39am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2013 1:36am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
You have "some" of Europe's best guys, the majority go to MX1. However I take that general point - it can't be denied that there is a one sided disparity between each series in top level 250f rider movement. But I'm not sure I would conclude it makes the National series better. There are things about the GP series which perhaps point to it being superior in some ways. What it comes down to ultimately is attitude. As I said before the GP riders and fans grow up with a world perspective and interest of the sport (we follow all championships), where's most Americans have a very one sided and insular perspective of MX - they're basically only interested in what happens in America.

The Shop

6/30/2013 1:32am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here...
There is really one reason that the US Nationals are the best. We have all of our best guys and most of Europe's best guys here in our series. The Euros have some of their best guys and none of our best guys.
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
SMITH201 wrote:
Yuuuup!
Agreed ,apart from "MOST of Europes top guys" should be changed to "SOME of Europes", as most of Europes top guys are racing the world championships!
6/30/2013 1:37am
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th...
Thats not entirely the issue,Jimmy D pretty near holeshot both Motos and ran strong today,without the bike going bang he was on for 11th and 13th which is extremely respectable in a really strong series after struggling over here,it goes to show that taking on the other championship is way harder than people think,like many people,he didn't realise how fast the GP guys in what theyre all used to,same with the US boys in the Nationals,the two things are so diferrent,big respect for Jimmy doing it,im a fan for sureSmile

The US guys have to be at an advantage when riders come over into the AMA series from their own GP championship and go up against them,it stands to reason,

Roczen and Marvin did great here,then go over and run upfront there too,Herlings wouldn't be any different,Tomac and Baggett would do great over here,they'd all need to adust and get to grips with things though,maybe one day a top rider will come and take it on
bobby397 wrote:
Remember, this was Jimmy's local track and he was still a 10-20th place guy
I fully understand that,he's obviously going to do well there,I'd give him a lot more credit that that though,especially with those starts and battling up front like that,10-15 at that place,even on a bike he "pulled out of the garage" that blew up,and they changed the engine between Motos too,This class was said to be quite possibly the strongest and deepest ever year for 250s at the start of the year too

Decotis was simply a different rider out there,nobody questions his ability to rip,and in time I think he'd have gone way better in the GPs,but what listening to his interview and watching all his racing over here,I think its pretty safe to say that these guys have an advantage on their respective side of the pond,and they're all extremely fast,just because some people havn't heard of them doesn't mean they 're slow,

Zach is a great example,watching him every week and saying how good he was often fell on deaf ears over there (some assholes were even bagging on him too) but look at him now he's home

Roczen and Marvin would've had to have gone MX1 by now,same for Zach,just like the frontrunners of that class did,Paulin,Searle,Van Horbeek,Roelants,Frossard etc but they can still ride the 250 by going AMA and they can earn a lot more $$$ too with SX and the win bonuses etc,instead they'd be MX1 only

Just about everyone on here (and other boards) wished Jimmy the best,yes there will probably only be lower order guys come to Europe unless things change or RV takes on GPs when his conract ends in a while,until then every couple of years 1 top 250 GP rider might still go to America
FIREfish148
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6/30/2013 4:16am
Yep, and then after watching Metcalf look pretty normal in Edmonton last weekend, I think the top Canadian guys like Facciotti and Klatt would be competitive...
Yep, and then after watching Metcalf look pretty normal in Edmonton last weekend, I think the top Canadian guys like Facciotti and Klatt would be competitive as well. Seems like most places, the top guys are just plain fast, and riding the wheels off these bikes. Fun to see Metty out there after last weekend. It was a pleasure to see him ride, as well as the other top guys.

I think the GPs have really stepped up the overall pace though, and due to the gnarly tracks there, those riders have completely closed the gap. Too bad there wasnt an actual world championship series, with all the top guys. It would be freaking epic.
Facciotti is an under rated rider for sure. I remember watching that kid ride a local arenacross event around here (puyallup) in 2001 or 2 , and thinking he was going to be the next great rider in the states. Little did I know back then that he was only 14 and from Canada. Bummer that he couldn't hang out with the TLD guys a little longer.
bobby397
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6/30/2013 4:46am
bobby397 wrote:
Makes sense.
SMITH201 wrote:
Yuuuup!
Agreed ,apart from "MOST of Europes top guys" should be changed to "SOME of Europes", as most of Europes top guys are racing the world championships!
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would come if given the opportunity, everts and ac222 being a rare exception.
jamma10
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6/30/2013 4:54am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2013 5:00am
SMITH201 wrote:
Yuuuup!
Agreed ,apart from "MOST of Europes top guys" should be changed to "SOME of Europes", as most of Europes top guys are racing the world championships!
bobby397 wrote:
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would...
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would come if given the opportunity, everts and ac222 being a rare exception.
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European.

Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to leave America the AMA would no longer be a strong series, even though Dungey, Alessi, Stewart, Barcia & Canard were still racing it.
bobby397
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6/30/2013 5:21am
Agreed ,apart from "MOST of Europes top guys" should be changed to "SOME of Europes", as most of Europes top guys are racing the world championships!
bobby397 wrote:
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would...
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would come if given the opportunity, everts and ac222 being a rare exception.
jamma10 wrote:
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European. Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to...
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European.

Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to leave America the AMA would no longer be a strong series, even though Dungey, Alessi, Stewart, Barcia & Canard were still racing it.
Take away stewart and dungey, since they have won titles. Now you got Alessi , grant, Malcolm Stewart, brayton, Nicoletti, short, les smith all guys who have won a title, doesn't sound so stacked any more huh? Not bagging on any of those guys currently racing the gps, but imagine how awesome the mx1 class would be if they were keeping all their guys plus gaining most the us champs like Stewart, RV, dungey, etc.
jamma10
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6/30/2013 5:54am
bobby397 wrote:
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would...
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would come if given the opportunity, everts and ac222 being a rare exception.
jamma10 wrote:
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European. Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to...
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European.

Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to leave America the AMA would no longer be a strong series, even though Dungey, Alessi, Stewart, Barcia & Canard were still racing it.
bobby397 wrote:
Take away stewart and dungey, since they have won titles. Now you got Alessi , grant, Malcolm Stewart, brayton, Nicoletti, short, les smith all guys who...
Take away stewart and dungey, since they have won titles. Now you got Alessi , grant, Malcolm Stewart, brayton, Nicoletti, short, les smith all guys who have won a title, doesn't sound so stacked any more huh? Not bagging on any of those guys currently racing the gps, but imagine how awesome the mx1 class would be if they were keeping all their guys plus gaining most the us champs like Stewart, RV, dungey, etc.
MX1 is poorer for it I agree.

Its an issue I feel YS should have tried much harder to address in recent years to be honest. I don't know whether they've just been slow to realise that it just undermines their product, or whether they're just resigned to losing riders to America, but they need to start offering some sort of monetary incentive to stay, or at least drop the MX2 age rule.
slipdog
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6/30/2013 7:01am
bobby397 wrote:
Remember, this was Jimmy's local track and he was still a 10-20th place guy
I think Bobby's point is one most on both sides are missing. Tony LaRusso(sp) always top 5'd at The Wick. Jason McCormick podium'd or won motos at 'Shoug.

He's still a good rider, but you can't compare him to the top AMA or GP guys, he'll be luck to sniff the top 20 next week.
cpj36
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6/30/2013 7:40am
You have "some" of Europe's best guys, the majority go to MX1. However I take that general point - it can't be denied that there is...
You have "some" of Europe's best guys, the majority go to MX1. However I take that general point - it can't be denied that there is a one sided disparity between each series in top level 250f rider movement. But I'm not sure I would conclude it makes the National series better. There are things about the GP series which perhaps point to it being superior in some ways. What it comes down to ultimately is attitude. As I said before the GP riders and fans grow up with a world perspective and interest of the sport (we follow all championships), where's most Americans have a very one sided and insular perspective of MX - they're basically only interested in what happens in America.
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road & GP's came here we'd all still be watching the AMA series.
6/30/2013 10:04am
You have "some" of Europe's best guys, the majority go to MX1. However I take that general point - it can't be denied that there is...
You have "some" of Europe's best guys, the majority go to MX1. However I take that general point - it can't be denied that there is a one sided disparity between each series in top level 250f rider movement. But I'm not sure I would conclude it makes the National series better. There are things about the GP series which perhaps point to it being superior in some ways. What it comes down to ultimately is attitude. As I said before the GP riders and fans grow up with a world perspective and interest of the sport (we follow all championships), where's most Americans have a very one sided and insular perspective of MX - they're basically only interested in what happens in America.
cpj36 wrote:
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road &...
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road & GP's came here we'd all still be watching the AMA series.
It wouldn't matter if the GP riders were showered in million dollar bills as they crossed the finish line - American riders will never be attracted to the GPs in numbers equal to that going the other way from Europe. Why? Because of cultural attitude. I agree with your last point really, that's pretty much spot on with what I'm saying.
HSC Racing
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6/30/2013 10:34am
cpj36 wrote:
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road &...
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road & GP's came here we'd all still be watching the AMA series.
This!
FreshTopEnd
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6/30/2013 10:43am
Herlings is awesome, he'll win races here if he comes here in the 250's, and he'll be a top guy at the GH MXdN. People who deny that are in denial.

That's DeCotis's home track, and metty always has loved it and done well. I don't think you draw conclusions from that.

As far as the series comparisons, we will gladly continue to accept your top talent when they peel off, and send you the DeCotis's. anyone who doesn't think the undeniable one way talent path from the GPs to the US doesn't weaken the quality of then GPS is in as much denial as the US bungholes who claim herrings wouldn't be competitive here.
PressPassP
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6/30/2013 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 3:35pm
Herlings is awesome, he'll win races here if he comes here in the 250's, and he'll be a top guy at the GH MXdN. People who...
Herlings is awesome, he'll win races here if he comes here in the 250's, and he'll be a top guy at the GH MXdN. People who deny that are in denial.

That's DeCotis's home track, and metty always has loved it and done well. I don't think you draw conclusions from that.

As far as the series comparisons, we will gladly continue to accept your top talent when they peel off, and send you the DeCotis's. anyone who doesn't think the undeniable one way talent path from the GPs to the US doesn't weaken the quality of then GPS is in as much denial as the US bungholes who claim herrings wouldn't be competitive here.
There will always be "hometrack heroes" who are able to pull off great rides,Dowd is a great example for instance,it'd be tough for him to get the same finish elsewhere in his late 40's! Fair play to the guy,Drcotis is probably in the same mould,it will be interesting to see how he does in the rest of the season,he's often been out with injury,this is could well be the toughest season in the class too,however those 2 starts Jimmy pulled were real impressive!

By losing a top 250 guy,on average every other season,it does weaken the series to an extent,not in MX2 as those guys will have had to move up anyway,same as the good 250 guys do in the AMA.New riders come through the smaller class all the time and pick up better rides/teams that get left vacant,Herlings himself has evolved and I'd agree that he's pulling other guys along as the season goes on,they're getting into their groove and settling into their new rides

The loss is more in MX1 because of the riders that left to ride in the US at the moment that would still be in MX1 are Roczen,Musquin and Rattray (possibly Reed)

The above riders and more can't for a minute be blamed for going really as they can prolong their 250 careers and probably earn a load more money,the opportunity is there add SX too,whereas it's not so much in Europe hence it's guys like Zach,Leib and Decotis that come

I think what we can take from Decotis' take on things is that crossing the pond to take up the new challenge is tough whichever way around,sure a lot of people will underestimate how fast the GP guys are on their home turf so to speak,home advantage can work for everyone,it's part of what we're talking about here afterall

One other thing that crossed my mind was how Jimmy would've done in the sand of Leirop in a while,being a sand guy so to speak,it might have worked out for him
6/30/2013 3:06pm
The gps are run in so many different country's that the riders only race at 1 race on there own soil that's what makes the series so good and jimmy d would have done no better at lommel than at any other race of the year being a sand specialist in the US can not be compared to anything in Europe I'm a weekend warrior (crap rider) and we race on deeper sand than Southwick I think his comments can not be really questioned as he's the one that's just experienced the gp series of he says it's better it's obviously better I do agree the AMA is so much faster and better to watch but that is down to the sheer speed of the tracks the gp tracks are far more technical therefore slower I think most American riders Barr a handful would struggle in the gp's and same goes for most gp riders going to AMA
jstein639
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7/1/2013 12:30pm
Huckster wrote:
ok, so Jimmy goes over and stinks the place out and comes back with his tail between his leg in time for a national at a...
ok, so Jimmy goes over and stinks the place out and comes back with his tail between his leg in time for a national at a track that he has spun 1000+ laps on over the course of his lifetime. He proceeds to go 29/13 for 18th overall and you can draw conclusion that the MX2 class in the GP's is equal to the AMA 250 class from that. LOL.....you guys are like the lil brother who never will be able to get out of his bigger brother's shadow but I applaud the spirit....keep up the fight.....
It's hard to compare a guy who even said he wasn't prepared for 40+ 2 motos on unknown tracks to coming back to 30+ 2 motos on tracks he knows. The GP/ America debate is stupid, we will see Herlings here soon enough.
7/1/2013 12:54pm
The 250f field this year is probably one of the deepest pool of talent this class has seen in a few years. The starts are so important with the speed the top 15 guys are running. I agree that running in a GP series is difficult due to the cultural and time zone changes. In the United States we have 3000 miles running east to west and another 1200 miles from north to south. That's a shit load of land and it makes for a great outdoor motocross season.
7/1/2013 1:11pm
cpj36 wrote:
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road &...
I bet you guys don't watch US soccer, since you already have a superior product of your own. If the AMA series hit the road & GP's came here we'd all still be watching the AMA series.
Who gives a fuck about soccer?!
MXMattii
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7/1/2013 1:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 2:27pm
Agreed ,apart from "MOST of Europes top guys" should be changed to "SOME of Europes", as most of Europes top guys are racing the world championships!
bobby397 wrote:
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would...
The USA has gotten all but what 3 world champs? We got pichon, albertyn, Tortelli, pourcel, roczen, musquin, searle, townley, rattray..... Most of the others would come if given the opportunity, everts and ac222 being a rare exception.
jamma10 wrote:
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European. Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to...
If you notice though, most riders who switch are French (with an interest in SX) or non-European.

Its a bit like saying if Villopoto were to leave America the AMA would no longer be a strong series, even though Dungey, Alessi, Stewart, Barcia & Canard were still racing it.
Indeed Jamma10, If you are "European" and interested in Supercross then America is the promised land! I mean if you can choose between:





OR



Then it's a no brainer. Supercross in Europe is pretty small. You got some big ones like Bercy, Geneva, Genoa and Milan. Then you got the German Series, The French Series and now the Dutch are also making and effort but those tracks are like the pictures above.

https://youtu.be/JlT0r0vvyFM

La Tremblade is also one of the big ones in Europe. The Reason is that its a place on the sea and allot of tourist are there when the race happens!

https://youtu.be/US6JLbfHErI?rel=0
Millbilly
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7/1/2013 3:28pm
I have a sequence of his starts from the sandbox. The pictures are not the best I was across the track, but you will get the point





Millbilly
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7/1/2013 3:29pm
His starts were insane!
Millbilly
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7/1/2013 3:33pm
Sand shower

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