Yet another 2 stroke build...

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/3/2014 5:56pm
Guys, it's nothing too fancy but the bike came out nice so I thought I'd share. I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the photos.

It's a 2013 250SX to replace my '08 250SX (for sale btw).

I had some trick parts on my '08 so I did a lot of swapping of parts to get this thing how I wanted it and too control costs.

First I pulled the engines of both bikes and pulled my balanced and stroked Falicon crank out of the '08 as well as the 300 cylinder. These parts combined take the usually 293cc '300' to a true 314cc. It also completely changes the powerband in very dramatic ways, some good, some not so good. There was a brief test of my '08 with this engine in the Dec 2012 Dirt Rider issue fyi. But I absolutely prefer this powerband over the standard 300.



BTW, I have no explanation for why a 5 month old crank that gets ridden regularly and stored indoors is rusty. I don't know if it's alcohol in the fuel or what. Actually it is probably because I have been running my bike out of gasoline by shutting off the petcock which might leave the parts dry. Guess I won't be doing that anymore. Anyways, it's harmless.

Technically the '08 engine could have just bolted right in to the '13 but I wanted to keep as many of my new parts as reasonably possible plus the '13 gets a more narrow clutch and right side clutch cover.

Now the guy that puts my engines together is really into coatings. Some coatings are slick, some are heat dispersants, some are insulators, I don't even ask anymore. Notice the 2mm aluminum spacer plate for the stroker kit sitting on top of the engine cases.



We also went ahead and did the transmission on the '13 w/ slick coatings. It's supposed to reduce friction, improve shifting, etc...



Heads and powervalves were also coated. I have 2 heads, a low compression one for pump gas and a hi-compression one for race fuel.



While we were in there we went ahead and filed more pronounced hooks on the shift claw as this part often wears and prevents KTMs from upshifting at full throttle. Very annoying trait. You don't want to coat this part as it needs to grab. Notice the slotted head stay in the background to accommodate the raised cylinder.



I then decided to strip the frame and while I was there reinforce the lower exhaust hanger. This part has broken off my '08 at least 10 times.



Powdercoated the frame up in orange which is odd behavior for me as I'm not much for looks on my dirt bikes. Special thanks to MXboy for giving me the actual powdercoating code that KTM uses. It's a perfect match.



And here is a close up of the exhaust bracing that I mentioned.



I had actually already put full Ohlins suspension front and rear as well as some very nice SM Pro wheels before I tore the bike down for this.



I don't have any decent photos showcasing the Ohlins.

Then my engine builder called me up and said for me to come pick up the engine. Because the 300 cylinder we used was off my '08, the grey coloring didn't match, so my builder coated the cylinder w/ satin finish heat dispersant, which incidentally matched my wheels nicely. He also completely hid the spacer plate by coating it along w/ the cylinder making it invisible to the naked eye.



Also notice I took the RAD valve off my '08 and I shortened it in preparation for my APT carb which is longer than a stock carb.

All back together. In this photo the chain and countershaft guard are the only things missing as I was doing some parts swapping w/ my '08. I also ditched the plastic frame guards and went w/ grip tape because I think the plastic looks stupid and it just make the bike feel wider.





Also the bike has a few other parts that I picked up from the dealer when I bought the bike including the Powerparts Acerbis seat, PHDS handlebar system, some trick wide footpegs, ignition map switch, etc... I also grabbed a few random parts off my '08 including the Dick's racing carb, tug strap, RAD valve, Tubeless system, FMF expansion chamber, CF Leo Vince muffler, O-ring chain, Hammerhead shifter, etc... I also stuffed some spare tank foam I had in to the fuel tank to reduce sloshing. And lastly I installed the Hardparts Bellvue washer. It made the clutch have poor feel and very stiff. I might swap back. As a side note, in the packet that they handed out at the KTM Demo day there was a coupon for $500 in KTM parts if you bought a new bike and used the coupon. This is what paid for all the Hardparts that I got.

The only other mod I have planned is I have already bought the APT Smartcarb and am just waiting eagerly for it to arrive. To me, that part is the crowning touch that I am most excited about.

One other thing, my total investment in the bike is under $11K. When you consider that I have such a trick modern 2 stroke for basically what a stock Special edition 450F costs, it's really not that bad. I rode the last 250 for 5.5 years. I think I'll never sell this one. When I get too old to MX I'm going to turn this thing in to a dual sport for when I retire to a 3rd world country!

I hope to finally break away from work and ride it tomorrow for the first time w/ the built engine but I sure am rusty right now. But very excited. I also need to give a shout out to the gang down at TJs KTM in Austin, TX cause they always jump thru hoops to take care of my motorcycle needs and it's much appreciated.
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ocscottie
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Redding, CA, USA
4/5/2013 1:40pm
I knew that was a Falicon crank, recognized the weld job, they did the crank work on my Pilot.

Awesome job, that is a beautiful machine.
4/5/2013 1:46pm
You can't expect us to keep our tools inside our pants with those pictures....

What do those coatings cost by the way?
Suns_PSD
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4/5/2013 1:50pm
You can't expect us to keep our tools inside our pants with those pictures....

What do those coatings cost by the way?
LOL

I've never asked for a break down but Mack Whiteside is very reasonable. Basically he broke down two engines, coated the new one, and put them both all back together for about $1K total.
4/5/2013 1:54pm
Thats such a sick bike dude great work! So stoked to see people still building two strokes up. Don't see that much around where i live.

The Shop

mxtech1
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Galesburg, IL, USA
4/5/2013 1:56pm
Keep in mind that when you turn the petcock off and run the engine until the fuel supply is depleted, you aren't getting a full fuel spray to the motor. At the end when the motor is just barely running at starting to cut out, you aren't running enough fuel and oil into the motor.

With a 2 stroke, I always suggest just draining the carb with the drain plug. On a 4 stroke, it is safer to turn the petcock off and let it run dry because it doesn't need the pre-mix for lubrication.
mxtech1
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4/5/2013 1:57pm
How do you compare the suspension and handling to your 08?
4/5/2013 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 2:02pm
So 2 teardowns, bearings and gaskets to rebuild 1 motor + coating and finish? Sounds very reasonable indeed.
FGR01
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Fantasy
4/5/2013 2:06pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Keep in mind that when you turn the petcock off and run the engine until the fuel supply is depleted, you aren't getting a full fuel...
Keep in mind that when you turn the petcock off and run the engine until the fuel supply is depleted, you aren't getting a full fuel spray to the motor. At the end when the motor is just barely running at starting to cut out, you aren't running enough fuel and oil into the motor.

With a 2 stroke, I always suggest just draining the carb with the drain plug. On a 4 stroke, it is safer to turn the petcock off and let it run dry because it doesn't need the pre-mix for lubrication.
Exactly. Do not do that on a 2-stroke. You are running the bike very lean both fuel wise and oil wise which is not good for the piston or bearings.

By any chance, do you use Amsoil Dominator 2-stroke oil? There are many reports on Thumpertalk of that oil causing rusty cranks due to not having corrosion inhibitors. And while it may seem harmless on the surface of the crank, it can't be good for the bearings.
Suns_PSD
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4/5/2013 2:06pm
mxtech1 wrote:
How do you compare the suspension and handling to your 08?
Honestly, the '08 when it had the same motor is 95% what the '13 bike is. It kind of sucks because the new one looks so pretty but then I hop on the old one and it turns and stops just as good as the '13 and to top it off it shifted better and absolutely felt notably lighter. My '08 is very fresh anyways. Shoot it now has ridden 3x '13 engine internals, '13 top end, '13 carb, '13 exhaust system, '13 wheels, '13 shifter, etc...so it's even fresher than it was before. The '08 does feel a little wider than the '13 but it's minimal. Now going off memory when I had stock suspension on the '08, yah the '13 was notably better completely stock cause stock '08 suspension was pretty bad.

There are only a couple of places where the '13 has proven superior to the '08. Mainly acceleration chop. There were just times I was fighting that PDS but not usually. It's also easier to get way forward.

If I was a trail rider I'd track down a PDS bike because the KTM linkage just hangs way low. For track only work you are going to prefer the linkage bikes.

And no one should feel like they are shorting themselves if they buy a well set up older KTM as they are very good.
Suns_PSD
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4/5/2013 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 2:09pm
So 2 teardowns, bearings and gaskets to rebuild 1 motor + coating and finish? Sounds very reasonable indeed.
Well I provide all parts of course. And the '13 was new and the '08 had been rebuilt just last year so he just pulled them apart and swapped the cranks right over. He didn't even remove the pistons from the connecting rods.
Suns_PSD
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4/5/2013 2:11pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Keep in mind that when you turn the petcock off and run the engine until the fuel supply is depleted, you aren't getting a full fuel...
Keep in mind that when you turn the petcock off and run the engine until the fuel supply is depleted, you aren't getting a full fuel spray to the motor. At the end when the motor is just barely running at starting to cut out, you aren't running enough fuel and oil into the motor.

With a 2 stroke, I always suggest just draining the carb with the drain plug. On a 4 stroke, it is safer to turn the petcock off and let it run dry because it doesn't need the pre-mix for lubrication.
FGR01 wrote:
Exactly. Do not do that on a 2-stroke. You are running the bike very lean both fuel wise and oil wise which is not good for...
Exactly. Do not do that on a 2-stroke. You are running the bike very lean both fuel wise and oil wise which is not good for the piston or bearings.

By any chance, do you use Amsoil Dominator 2-stroke oil? There are many reports on Thumpertalk of that oil causing rusty cranks due to not having corrosion inhibitors. And while it may seem harmless on the surface of the crank, it can't be good for the bearings.
I'll quit doing it but I have to admit, I've seen no evidence of damage from doing this.

I have always ran BelRay HR1. My old cranks were not rusty so it's either from shutting off the petcock and running it try or something Falicon does to the crank material like remove a coating or change materials or something.
newmann
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USA
4/5/2013 2:43pm
The cast iron bore of my old 74 CR250 Honda has rusted up so bad I thought I was going to have to beat the piston out of it. Was using VP C-14 114 octane fuel as nothing else was available locally and I need a high octane fuel for the compression monster. Phillips 116 and Sunoco 116 don't seem to have the same problem. The VP would literally turn milky quickly from absorbing the moisture in the air. Damn piston pin was rusted into the piston once. Always ran H1R in it and most of my other bikes. Only run the ultra high octane fuel in the 74 CR250 though. Don't know how bad the humidity is where you live but you can cut it with a knife here in Beaumont.
seth505
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4/5/2013 6:53pm
Bike is absolutely beautiful man, exactly my style.
reded
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4/5/2013 7:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 8:29pm
Love the bike man. At a casual glance it simply looks like a well detailed stocker.
kingkabong
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Parker, CO, USA
4/5/2013 7:19pm
Very nice! Throw some bark busters on that bad boy and come race TORCS!
dantheman
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AZ
4/5/2013 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 7:24pm
Awesome build, you definitely do nice work. Those coatings are trick looking.

I always love "these" 2 stroke builds as the "swoopy" pipes just make a mx bike so cool looking from every other 4 stroked motored, basically straight piped EVERYTHING! That and the minimalist motor maximum power(equal cc's)!

Thanks for posting it up.
DPR250R
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4/5/2013 9:45pm
Love how the OP starts the thread with....

"It's nothing too fancy..."

Talk about underselling.... lol

Very nice work... Thanks for sharing.
onthepipe
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NL
4/5/2013 10:44pm
Beautiful bike man! With a trick motor, gotto love those KTM's, fun thing is that you can switch many parts over, They actually design there bikes that way so you can keep all your old (spare) parts.

Rusty crank could be due to spraywashing your bike, getting water into your exhaust which evaporates into your barrel/crankcase. Starting your bike after washing is a good idea.
DrSweden
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Stockholm, SE
4/6/2013 7:54am
Work well done! Impressive to say the least.
EMARacing
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4/6/2013 9:33am
Suns_PSD wrote:
LOL I've never asked for a break down but Mack Whiteside is very reasonable. Basically he broke down two engines, coated the new one, and put...
LOL

I've never asked for a break down but Mack Whiteside is very reasonable. Basically he broke down two engines, coated the new one, and put them both all back together for about $1K total.
Mac is a genius. Very nice bike.
lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
4/6/2013 10:00am
The whole motor in black would look good.
joe stanley
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Boyne City, MI, USA
4/6/2013 10:31am
Have your engine builder take a look at the piston coatings this company manufactures. www.line2linecoatings.com Been using thier coatings for 4 years......awesome product. Ron Hamp has a desert race motor he did with the coatings that has impressive performance and durability.
HenryA
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4/6/2013 10:51am
Damn that bike is sexy.
Suns_PSD
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4/7/2013 8:04pm
Thanks for the kind words guys.

I took the modified bike out for the first time this weekend since getting it back together and it runs really nice. The bike is really good. You really don't have to think about much and the powerband is very long, almost 450F long. I'm very happy about that. We did make a small port height change since the parts were in the '08 to improve low end and it worked. The bike really has a perfect powerband. Not a hell of a lot of kick, but super strong and power that rarely runs out. It does rev way more than a stock 250SX. For the first time I can say that I can run the same pace on this 2 stroke as I can on a new 450F (previously I'd drop 2 seconds a lap hopping on any good 450)

The clutch felt like hell all day so I pulled the clutch pack today and my engine guy had made an error in locating the chatter washer. After a quick online check of the parts diagram it was back together and the clutch was feeling normal again. Stiffer than stock because of the Hardparts Belluvue washer, but that wasn't the problem. The feel had been really weird and it was overly stiff before the repair. The shifting was pretty clunky also but I feel an oil change to get the coating residue out of the gear box, a bit more break in, and the clutch repair will entirely fix that.

Anyways, I'm eager to add the APT Smartcarb when it arrives next month and to lengthen and even increase the powerband all over and also to never jet a bike again. But for now, it's just time for me to ride and get back in good riding condition and I've now got the perfect bike for just that!
captmoto
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4/7/2013 8:30pm
Alcohol will pull water out of the air if it is humid. It's mostly what is in the stuff used for swimmers ear. If you are using pump gas w/alcohol you might see some rust. Also could be condensation from a hot motor cooling down.
Suns_PSD
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1/2/2014 5:41pm
A few more mods. Most I wouldn't even bother posting but the crowning touch is in the last photo.

As usual my camera sucks, my bike is dirty, and I just generally don't care about photography as a pasttime.

Swapped from Leo Vince muffer to an FMF Ti2 shorty. The FMF is 10x the muffler. It makes notably more hp, it's lighter, it's rebuildable, etc... It's also a LOT louder though.



IMS wide pegs and an extended and adjustable Hammerhead shifter. I've bought fancy titanium pegs in the past and they always wear down and you can't feel any difference anyways that low on the bike.



I ditched the KTM bumper type clamps. As they weigh too much. But I needed something to lessen the blows to my oft broken wrist. So I went w/ these carbon fiber bars (forgot the name already) as they flex a lot and have natural damping. They work pretty well. The bars themselves are no lighter than a typical set of aluminum bars but they allowed me to ditch the damper system.



I broke a lever so I bought a set of these fancy ARC levers that you can tie in a knot. I can feel the brake lever flex a bit however when I brake very hard.



This is the worst picture yet but it's a pic of an external ignition switch that it attached to my brake lever. Tried it once and all it does is makes the bike slow. Maybe on a really slick day I'll try it again.



I went w/ an Ironman sprocket but I also geared the bike taller (one less rear tooth). I wanted to utilize my next mod fully (minimum 8% more hp w/ that thing) and I also am always chasing a 450F type powerband. So in essence I want a long smooth, yet very powerful powerband. Cheap O-ring chain too cause I'm lazy and don't like lubing and cleaning things. Makes the bike feel like it has a weighted flywheel however.



And this, my final modification. A CAST 38mm Smartcarb. Minimum 8% more hp than my Keihen (due to my jetting skills the difference is probably more like 15%), auto air density compensation, 30% better mpg, single external jetting circuit. It's awesome. And you have no idea how fast the bike feels w/ this thing.

FCMX
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1/2/2014 6:14pm
I've been waiting for that carb to finally be released. How long did it take to get yours?
resetjet
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1/2/2014 6:18pm
HMMMM>>>>>>A spacer that big under your jug and two gaskets..... How in the world do you ever get your z dimension to line up. Did you check it????

Not familiar with the Falcon crank. I have two 07 300 ktms. One with a sx crank and 09 shaved cylinder and one with stock.... I can only tell you the sx crank is night and day on a 300. Not sure why they don't make them this way. Power everywhere.....I assume its close to your falcon. It just spools up faster and somehow has power low and high......

Your smart carb has me intrigued. I have read about it. Would like more info on how it is working out.
Suns_PSD
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1/3/2014 9:40am
FCMX wrote:
I've been waiting for that carb to finally be released. How long did it take to get yours?
About a year but then again it wasn't in production when I ordered it.

They are now in production and are filling 100s of back orders. But if you ordered now I'd imagine that you would have it in less than 2 months.

This carb is the greatest thing since sliced bread if you ask me and pretty much obsoletes FI 4 strokes. It smoothed out and lengthened the powerband, reduced emissions, improved mpg, to an extent that i see no advantage in carrying around an addtional 20# w/ a FI 450F.
Suns_PSD
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1/3/2014 9:44am
resetjet wrote:
HMMMM>>>>>>A spacer that big under your jug and two gaskets..... How in the world do you ever get your z dimension to line up. Did you...
HMMMM>>>>>>A spacer that big under your jug and two gaskets..... How in the world do you ever get your z dimension to line up. Did you check it????

Not familiar with the Falcon crank. I have two 07 300 ktms. One with a sx crank and 09 shaved cylinder and one with stock.... I can only tell you the sx crank is night and day on a 300. Not sure why they don't make them this way. Power everywhere.....I assume its close to your falcon. It just spools up faster and somehow has power low and high......

Your smart carb has me intrigued. I have read about it. Would like more info on how it is working out.
You are confused. The crank was stroked 5mm (rod moved 2.5mm further from the crank centerline) and balanced, therefore a 2mm spacer combined w/ gaskets on either side was required to make Z dimension 0. Which is where it's at.

The engine started life as a '13 250SX. It has the SX style crank, full built motor, etc...

Frankly I find the stockish 300cc KTMs quite slow. My engine would rip a CRF450 a new A-hole. It's a whole different ballgame.

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