Motocross Future?

WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 12/9/2012 6:15pm
12/9/2012 6:15pm
DC wrote:
WORCS, I know that local racing in some areas is hurting, but I don't have the answers there. If I did, I would share them with...
WORCS, I know that local racing in some areas is hurting, but I don't have the answers there. If I did, I would share them with the local tracks in my own area. But I do know that I am here for the long run, no matter what Hando or whoever thinks, and I am trying to figure some things out that might help spur bike sales again.

Motocross has never been an easy sport to begin -- people need a bike, a truck, or a place to ride and then race -- and it's harder now than ever due to the lack of riding areas (all the old slag heaps and coal mines around here we used to ride on are off-limits) and the higher cost of buying a maintaining the equipment. It's hard to plop down that kind of money on anything. But the market dictates the bikes OEMs make, and I hope they start working on some new (or old) concepts as much as anyone.

I also believe the whole "contingency economy" of our sport has come back to bite it pretty hard. People seem to have streamlined their racing activities to events that pay out the contingency money, and it's no longer selling bikes like it used to for OEMs because it's harder than ever to win big races. But those big races -- Loretta Lynn's, Mini O's, etc. -- are doing well, though a local race in Tennessee or Florida is not. I don't know how to solve that, though I think it's starting to sort itself out in that the sales aren't there right now, and those contingency programs have suffered directly.

And then there's the whole attention span thing I mentioned. I went to a Motorsports Hall of Fame dinner a couple of years ago in Detroit and Chip Ganassi was the guest speaker. He began by asking everyone to look around the room and figure out who all is missing.... And then he pointed out that there were no young men and women in the room, and that motorsports in general are losing the battle to videogames and iPhones and texting. He explained that the powersports culture he grew up in back in the sixties and seventies was largely gone, and that kids would rather race around a track on a hand-held phone than in an actual go-kart. Chip used to race motocross back in the day, so even though he didn't mention motocross, I knew that what he said related directly to us. I just don't see kids playing outside in the neighborhoods the way we all did when we were growing up, and that goes for baseball, basketball, whatever. That's part of the reason why the NFL started its whole "Play 60" campaign to get kids back outside and off the couch.

Motocross is not the ultimate team sport, in my opinion, but I do believe it is the ultimate family sport. I think that's why so many of us still love it so much and worry about it on message boards like this. For most of us it's what we did with our dads and moms growing up, if we were lucky.

DC
MX Sports
The only thing I'd take issue with is the idea that young people don't have the attention span for the sport, that they're too involved in iPhones and video games; my 19 year old son is the driving force in our riding schedule. I'm much more inclined to come up with other things that need doing (yard work, wash the car, fix the water heater on the RV...) than he is. He's always the one saying, "let's load up the bikes. We'll mow the yard when we get back." Kids today want to ride just as much today as they ever have. The soil doesn't need to be more fertile, we need better farmers working it. We need rules that recognize the inherent risk of 18 year olds riding bikes with more effective power than the 500cc two strokes that were deemed too dangerous even for pros in the early 90s. We probably can't really reduce the cost of racing, but we need to recognize that 4 lap motos aren't a cost effective way to run races - the cost per lap is outrageous. We need much longer motos even if that means only one moto per class. We need a simple set of standards for lengths of jumps, the distance from the landing to the next turn, the set-back distance for trees and other solid objects, requirements for specified entry/exit points at tracks, and other safety related standards. Those standards need to be issued by some authoritative body like the AMA. Sure, tracks aren't obligated to follow them, but their insurance companies will eventually insist on it, don't you think?
jndmx
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jndmx 12/9/2012 6:22pm
12/9/2012 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 6:23pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are...
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are getting their walking papers left and right. Pro racing isnt saving anyone's job in the industry. Now is that because it's thriving or because the customers who buy all things moto have decided to pull up stakes? Sales are off by 60% dude that is not a turn down that is a full blown collapse. The smart man asks himself why.
The smart man looks at the big picture.

Sales are off because people don't have money.....no job means no money.
If you're worried about paying your mortgage you aren't worrying about what you're going to be doing for fun on the weekend.

Open your eyes man......this downturn is bigger than just the MX industry.

I realize you have a huge fucking hard on for trashing anything to do with MX Sport but what the hell man.....look at the reality of the situation.
JLong
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JLong 12/9/2012 6:31pm
12/9/2012 6:31pm
Brad460 wrote:
Thankfully you are not guiding our sport.....
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are...
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are getting their walking papers left and right. Pro racing isnt saving anyone's job in the industry. Now is that because it's thriving or because the customers who buy all things moto have decided to pull up stakes? Sales are off by 60% dude that is not a turn down that is a full blown collapse. The smart man asks himself why.
honda907 wrote:
I like the cold reality of your analysis WORCSracer! Your logic seems very plausible, and I have to agree with all the things you've said tonight...
I like the cold reality of your analysis WORCSracer! Your logic seems very plausible, and I have to agree with all the things you've said tonight. Your right on the money about LL, and your so right about the the PRO MX industry as a whole and the problems it has.

For DC. Your analysis of Motorsports and Chip Ganassi is good, but NASCAR is bigger than ever. So, I think that thinking goes right out the box, to some degree. You just need a better form of branding. NASCAR and those Monster Truck races pack people in, and they have legions of fans. They do a much better job at branding the sport, and branding the drivers. People are loyal to a driver or team. Much like major team sports. Win or lose, they have fans. That is what your business model lacks.
NASCAR ISN'T bigger than ever and if anyone is concerned about their future it's NASCAR. And that's where Ganassi's future lives. They're trying to attract a younger viewer like no other.

Anyone who thinks the economy isn't the real culprit is kidding themselves. I'll watch anyone race anything if I can afford to get there. And I drag my 13 yr. old with me just as my father did when I was young.
DC
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DC 12/9/2012 6:36pm
12/9/2012 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 6:37pm
NASCAR bigger than ever Honda? Are you sure about that? And WORCS, I am not sure what part of Loretta Lynn's makes you so uncomfortable but it's a pretty good family-bonding week for almost every family I have visited with down there for quite a few years, but obviously you and your family had a different experience there.

And I simply don't see how a good TV package is somehow bad for the motorcycle racing industry. Most others involved in pro racing think it's a vital piece of what they need to survive and even flourish.

Finally, I do look at these things with a critical eye, so I know there's a lot more work to be done on every level, including the grassroots. We all do.

DC
MX Sports

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WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 6:40pm
12/9/2012 6:40pm
DC wrote:
WORCS, I know that local racing in some areas is hurting, but I don't have the answers there. If I did, I would share them with...
WORCS, I know that local racing in some areas is hurting, but I don't have the answers there. If I did, I would share them with the local tracks in my own area. But I do know that I am here for the long run, no matter what Hando or whoever thinks, and I am trying to figure some things out that might help spur bike sales again.

Motocross has never been an easy sport to begin -- people need a bike, a truck, or a place to ride and then race -- and it's harder now than ever due to the lack of riding areas (all the old slag heaps and coal mines around here we used to ride on are off-limits) and the higher cost of buying a maintaining the equipment. It's hard to plop down that kind of money on anything. But the market dictates the bikes OEMs make, and I hope they start working on some new (or old) concepts as much as anyone.

I also believe the whole "contingency economy" of our sport has come back to bite it pretty hard. People seem to have streamlined their racing activities to events that pay out the contingency money, and it's no longer selling bikes like it used to for OEMs because it's harder than ever to win big races. But those big races -- Loretta Lynn's, Mini O's, etc. -- are doing well, though a local race in Tennessee or Florida is not. I don't know how to solve that, though I think it's starting to sort itself out in that the sales aren't there right now, and those contingency programs have suffered directly.

And then there's the whole attention span thing I mentioned. I went to a Motorsports Hall of Fame dinner a couple of years ago in Detroit and Chip Ganassi was the guest speaker. He began by asking everyone to look around the room and figure out who all is missing.... And then he pointed out that there were no young men and women in the room, and that motorsports in general are losing the battle to videogames and iPhones and texting. He explained that the powersports culture he grew up in back in the sixties and seventies was largely gone, and that kids would rather race around a track on a hand-held phone than in an actual go-kart. Chip used to race motocross back in the day, so even though he didn't mention motocross, I knew that what he said related directly to us. I just don't see kids playing outside in the neighborhoods the way we all did when we were growing up, and that goes for baseball, basketball, whatever. That's part of the reason why the NFL started its whole "Play 60" campaign to get kids back outside and off the couch.

Motocross is not the ultimate team sport, in my opinion, but I do believe it is the ultimate family sport. I think that's why so many of us still love it so much and worry about it on message boards like this. For most of us it's what we did with our dads and moms growing up, if we were lucky.

DC
MX Sports
WhKnuckle wrote:
The only thing I'd take issue with is the idea that young people don't have the attention span for the sport, that they're too involved in...
The only thing I'd take issue with is the idea that young people don't have the attention span for the sport, that they're too involved in iPhones and video games; my 19 year old son is the driving force in our riding schedule. I'm much more inclined to come up with other things that need doing (yard work, wash the car, fix the water heater on the RV...) than he is. He's always the one saying, "let's load up the bikes. We'll mow the yard when we get back." Kids today want to ride just as much today as they ever have. The soil doesn't need to be more fertile, we need better farmers working it. We need rules that recognize the inherent risk of 18 year olds riding bikes with more effective power than the 500cc two strokes that were deemed too dangerous even for pros in the early 90s. We probably can't really reduce the cost of racing, but we need to recognize that 4 lap motos aren't a cost effective way to run races - the cost per lap is outrageous. We need much longer motos even if that means only one moto per class. We need a simple set of standards for lengths of jumps, the distance from the landing to the next turn, the set-back distance for trees and other solid objects, requirements for specified entry/exit points at tracks, and other safety related standards. Those standards need to be issued by some authoritative body like the AMA. Sure, tracks aren't obligated to follow them, but their insurance companies will eventually insist on it, don't you think?
Hey Davey here's my advice (and it's worth what you are paying for it) to solve most of the things listed in your post...

Amatuer racing
125

250

Open

Pro Racing

250cc

Open
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 6:43pm
12/9/2012 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 6:55pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are...
Ok, so tell me where I've missed the corner? Things must be thriving where you are. Btw another little fact people in the MX industry are getting their walking papers left and right. Pro racing isnt saving anyone's job in the industry. Now is that because it's thriving or because the customers who buy all things moto have decided to pull up stakes? Sales are off by 60% dude that is not a turn down that is a full blown collapse. The smart man asks himself why.
jndmx wrote:
The smart man looks at the big picture. Sales are off because people don't have money.....no job means no money. If you're worried about paying your...
The smart man looks at the big picture.

Sales are off because people don't have money.....no job means no money.
If you're worried about paying your mortgage you aren't worrying about what you're going to be doing for fun on the weekend.

Open your eyes man......this downturn is bigger than just the MX industry.

I realize you have a huge fucking hard on for trashing anything to do with MX Sport but what the hell man.....look at the reality of the situation.
Care to address any of my points or will the huge fucking hard on you have for me get in the way?

Try and address this MX sales down 60% but the sales of high end bicycles > $5000 have increased. The economy isn't down 60% but sales are. Further, Rider counts in the A and B classes are still decent but the C class and minis are off in some place 80%....

Imo, people aren't entering the sport because it's about the "cost" of racing.
mom241
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mom241 12/9/2012 6:53pm
12/9/2012 6:53pm
I'm confused. Why do we hate Loretta's?
151
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151 12/9/2012 7:00pm
12/9/2012 7:00pm
Jo_C wrote:
WOW everyone has great points that I never thought of. So what can it be done in order to grow the sport? In any way possible...
WOW everyone has great points that I never thought of. So what can it be done in order to grow the sport? In any way possible even if it is small or big.
151 wrote:
Unless you are asking industry workers and pro racers, the logical answer (in my eyes) is, why would I want the sport to grow? Bikes really...
Unless you are asking industry workers and pro racers, the logical answer (in my eyes) is, why would I want the sport to grow?

Bikes really don't need to get any better, for most of us that ride they could get a little worse and it would'nt make a bit of difference.

They certainly don't need to get more expensive.

Ask the old surfers how they feel about the "growth" of their sport.

I would take a weekend of riding over watching an entire series of SX every year for the rest of my life. We need to focus on what aspect of the sport makes up happy. The salary of a few pros and the size of the teams semi does nothing for me.

Spending time riding and being with friends and family is where its at. To be honest from my perspective many of us that ride would be better off if the sport were "smaller".
I'm quoting myself here to point out that all I wanted to say was I am not immediately directly affected by growth of the sport at a professional level.

Having said that, I wish the best for everyone that is.

Even though there are a few, maybe several, practical pros at LL, any rider who doesn't love their God, their Country, and Loretta Lynn's (in no specific order) doesn't have the soul of a dirt bike racer. I have been racing since 1982 and I can't think of anything that IS more motocross than LL. I'll say it, LL is more moto than SX and the outdoors combined. LL is more moto that that terra firma clip of Travis, Ricky and James as little kids.

The only thing more moto than LL is the strider bike I am giving my one year old for Christmas in a few weeks. But thats just me. And I'd say 79% of the reason for the strider is so he can get to LL one day!

WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 7:01pm
12/9/2012 7:01pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 7:05pm
mom241 wrote:
I'm confused. Why do we hate Loretta's?
Because its sucking the life out of local motocross.


So why do you love it? We've both been there and we have kids that are pros, I'd like to read your answer.
JLong
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JLong 12/9/2012 7:10pm
12/9/2012 7:10pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Care to address any of my points or will the huge fucking hard on you have for me get in the way? Try and address this...
Care to address any of my points or will the huge fucking hard on you have for me get in the way?

Try and address this MX sales down 60% but the sales of high end bicycles > $5000 have increased. The economy isn't down 60% but sales are. Further, Rider counts in the A and B classes are still decent but the C class and minis are off in some place 80%....

Imo, people aren't entering the sport because it's about the "cost" of racing.
Wait till the market is flooded with 5k plus mountain and road bikes. It's coming eventually and sales at the bike shops will reflect it.

Are you referring to the cost of racing out of a toter home full of race prepped minis? I know there are plenty of people racing on a small budget.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 7:19pm
12/9/2012 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 7:26pm
JLong wrote:
Wait till the market is flooded with 5k plus mountain and road bikes. It's coming eventually and sales at the bike shops will reflect it. Are...
Wait till the market is flooded with 5k plus mountain and road bikes. It's coming eventually and sales at the bike shops will reflect it.

Are you referring to the cost of racing out of a toter home full of race prepped minis? I know there are plenty of people racing on a small budget.
Huge difference between bikes and "bikes". I may walk in and pay $5k for a bicycle and think wow that's expensive. However it is almost the last money I will spend on it. Tires last at least a thousand miles. Drivetrains last for thousands of miles. No plastic to replace and I'm never going to rebuild the motor.... After 2 years I can sell it on Craig's list for $1500 to $2000 bucks. $3000 bucks for 2 years of riding. Nice.

For reference it will cost you $3 grand in depreciation to walk out of a dealership with a new MX bike and the spending begins from there...
kzizok
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kzizok 12/9/2012 7:20pm
12/9/2012 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 7:24pm
Personally, I think that WORCS is very close to descrbing the truth. The economy has hit our sport hard, however, the cc class changes have probably been a bigger factor to the downturn in MX. My family is a part of the amatuer portion and the numbers decline is HUGE not just at the local level but at the nationals too. LLs' numbers are capped and its' unique structure exclude it from the "participation" equation. Add in other scenarios like Ponca changing up, Whitney moving etc. on top of evey thing else leaves more of a "bad taste" in peoples' mouths and even some of the most dedicated start staying away and then don't come back. I can't tell you how many people we used to race with are now forever lost. Then bottom line is there are a lot more people gone and/or leaving than there are people coming into MX. A lot of us LOVE this sport and when we, as humans, see something that we are so passionate about start going away, have a hard time facing a negative reality. There is a lot wrong that is causing a massive downturn. However, if we start addressing the problems one by one,slowly(just as they occured) it can be turned around. I understand that some things are out of our control but we can change those in our control. Otherwise, I'm afraid this sport will be a thing of the past. BTW, I posted this from my phone so my grammar isn't the best(run ons, etc.)
jndmx
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jndmx 12/9/2012 7:25pm
12/9/2012 7:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 7:28pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Care to address any of my points or will the huge fucking hard on you have for me get in the way? Try and address this...
Care to address any of my points or will the huge fucking hard on you have for me get in the way?

Try and address this MX sales down 60% but the sales of high end bicycles > $5000 have increased. The economy isn't down 60% but sales are. Further, Rider counts in the A and B classes are still decent but the C class and minis are off in some place 80%....

Imo, people aren't entering the sport because it's about the "cost" of racing.
JLong wrote:
Wait till the market is flooded with 5k plus mountain and road bikes. It's coming eventually and sales at the bike shops will reflect it. Are...
Wait till the market is flooded with 5k plus mountain and road bikes. It's coming eventually and sales at the bike shops will reflect it.

Are you referring to the cost of racing out of a toter home full of race prepped minis? I know there are plenty of people racing on a small budget.
JLong did a pretty good job of it with his post and I believe I did as well, you just regurgitated the same percentages.

Unemployment and under-employment have been at an all time high, people that are working have seen their home values drop by 50% here where I live and that will have a pretty direct effect on the amount of money they spend.

The sport went through a tremendous boom in the late 90's early 2000's....it was a huge jump.
Naturally you cannot expect any industry to sustain that kind of high point.

Let's not forget that all of the factories have drastically cut back on contingency money on the local level.....that matters when it comes to new bike sales.
Some folks are getting an extra year out of a bike when they used to buy new every year or 2 years to qualify for the contingency money.

Pardon the pun but these things run in cycles and right now all of the economy factors mentioned have driven the low point in the cycle.

There are also a lot of folks that just plain want to ride more than race, they still have bikes but they keep them longer and just ride trails or practice.

And please don't act like you don't take every opportunity to stick the knife in whenever MX Sports is the topic....I've been here for a while.
mom241
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mom241 12/9/2012 7:25pm
12/9/2012 7:25pm
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand. What does going to Loretta's, or any amateur national for that matter, have to do with local racing? Unless something has changed, some people went to the nationals, some people didn't. One didn't really affect the other. I will grant you that we aren't in a strong AMA area, so we made our classes fit the crowd, not the other way around. But I would guess that just about any promoter of a local track can do the same thing. I do that in business every day--adjust to the clientele to make more business.

What do I love about Loretta's? The memories--my boys and I talk about things that happened there and at other nationals all the time. The good times, the bad times, the stupid things we did, the funny things we did. Not to mention the people we met along the way. We left there disappointed more often than not, but determined to do better next time (Trey started racing there in Pee Wee 4-6 had had no real success until he was an intermediate). I'm really sad sometimes that Jaxon won't have those memories.

I think it's a really good farm program for 4 year olds up to the A class, and for vet riders. No one makes anyone go--so I guess I just don't get the problem.

Why does everyone think everything is broken all the time. Lots of things can always be improved--doesn't mean it's broken. And before someone accuses me of looking through rose tinted glasses, we had it pretty rough. Not near as rough as lots of people, but rough enough to appreciate how hard things can be.
JLong
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JLong 12/9/2012 7:30pm
12/9/2012 7:30pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Huge difference between bikes and "bikes". I may walk in and pay $5k for a bicycle and think wow that's expensive. However it is almost the...
Huge difference between bikes and "bikes". I may walk in and pay $5k for a bicycle and think wow that's expensive. However it is almost the last money I will spend on it. Tires last at least a thousand miles. Drivetrains last for thousands of miles. No plastic to replace and I'm never going to rebuild the motor.... After 2 years I can sell it on Craig's list for $1500 to $2000 bucks. $3000 bucks for 2 years of riding. Nice.

For reference it will cost you $3 grand in depreciation to walk out of a dealership with a new MX bike and the spending begins from there...
I won't argue any of that. All I'm saying is there's a ton of fun to be had on any budget.

My feeling is everyone wants to race on a rich man's budget or they stay home or claim it can't be done. Sure it's expensive at the elite level, but so is every other motor sport. Dirt track is alive and well in Texas- all classes from Hobby Stock to Sprints. Hobby Stock is a bit less expensive.
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mag23 12/9/2012 7:31pm
12/9/2012 7:31pm
Im new to this topic and didn't read it all... but come on jerkys, bike size and four strokes were no problem in 2005 and 2006 when every local track was fuckin packed... 500 racers at a local Saturday night race... Really guys??? You guys don't realize that the dirt bike demographic is, by far, the hardest hit in this economy? WTF are you guys thinkin? It's DCs fault that local races suck? There's nobody racin, because their dad's fence company folded last year... period, end of conversation. Trust me, write it on the wall, as soon as real estate comes back, tracks will be full again. Go take economics 1A at a community college, then come back here...
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Bauer 12/9/2012 7:42pm
12/9/2012 7:42pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey Davey here's my advice (and it's worth what you are paying for it) to solve most of the things listed in your post... Amatuer racing...
Hey Davey here's my advice (and it's worth what you are paying for it) to solve most of the things listed in your post...

Amatuer racing
125

250

Open

Pro Racing

250cc

Open
So MX Sports and the Amateur (PLEASE NOTE THE SPELLING, IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO REMEMBER) National Championship is the root of all MX evil, sucking the life out of local MX?

Please explain your reasoning for that conclusion. I'm pretty sure it will require you to be more creative than your advice of adding a KTM/Yamaha (125) class to the Amatuer(sic) racing.

Bear in mind that I was one of the guys that raced 4-5 times a week for a living, lining up on Sundays at Saddleback and Carlsbad behind a gate with 30+ of the fastest riders in the world. I can commiserate with you regarding the changes over the years to the local racing scene, but I just don't see how the advent and subsequent rise in stature of the AMA Amateur National Championship had anything to do with declining numbers of club racers.

I hear the WORCS series is on it's last legs, with like half a dozen entrants in one of the pro classes at the final round. Did Davey suck the life out of that series also? Or perhaps there are other factors? Maybe WORCS just needs to add a KTM/Yamaha class to their "amatuer" program...yeah, that'll fix it!
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kzizok 12/9/2012 7:46pm
12/9/2012 7:46pm
I agree that the economy has been a big hit. But a lot of other decisions made have had a big impact as well. FYI, I've come back on here as I have several degrees, one in Bus. Management with numerous Econ. classes, at the university level no less.

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RM127
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RM127 12/9/2012 7:48pm
12/9/2012 7:48pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 7:53pm
I really only see two big problems with our sport.

#1 Bikes are too expensive

#2 Unfairness of local racing (class structure, sandbagging, cheating)


IMO don't blame the recession. The economy will always rise and fall. Its up to the sport to adapt/adjust if it wants to thrive.
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JB227 12/9/2012 7:59pm
12/9/2012 7:59pm
My kid rides 65's and just recently got into racing Karts. As you can imagine my pocketbook partially wishes some of you were right. You think the price of 2 KTM 65's and the upkeep on them is expensive go buy a Kart and start racing it.......

If anything is wrong with this sport i think its that their isnt enough "backyard" racing left these days. When i was growing up we raced every wednesday night every saturday night and every sunday afternoon. Sometimes there was races on saturday during the day also so you could go from one track to another and race all damn day long. Now everything is part of a series..... You race 15-20 times a year in 2 series and the rest of the time your at a organized practice or just out riding. What happened to the good old days of paying your race fee and having a living room stacked a mile high with trophies. This stuff needs a comeback and while im on a 4 stroke myself now i do think people speak the truth that the 2 strokes need to come back.

As far as TV goes DC does the best he can you cant just call up ESPN and say hey we can guarantee you 8 million viewers pay us a 10 year/ $2 billion tv contract! It has to get built up over time. Out of all of my friends im the only moto person out of everyone. When i show them supercross they sit there amazed and say man these guys are amazing. When they see and outdoor race they are like why do you watch this shit. Me personally I would rather watch the outdoors. The masses want to see supercross. You want the sport to grow talk to the people at Feld and get supercross a better TV deal. People always bitch about the CBS coverage of a supercross race. Do you realize those coverages get literally 3-4 times more viewers then the live speed coverage gets when they show them? You should be begging for more of them its viewer numbers like that that will get the sport more coverage and an eventually better TV deal. Which leads to every thing else like more then 5 guys getting rich.

If anything needs to be done to the sport on a pro level its that it needs parity. What is it that makes 1 guy that much faster then everyone else on the track. When JS7 went undefeated outdoors there wasnt anyone on the track that could even sniff him. Sure there was some close calls but for the most part he flat out dominated. Same with RC. MC in supercross was the same way. IS there actually something about this sport that makes 1 guy that much better than everyone else? or is it the equipment. Personally i think its the equipment. 450's are retardedly fast. Make them run the things bone ass stock. You can change out your bars and set the suspension. Nothing else. I bet you start seeing more Privateers making an impact on the track. 1 dominating rider isnt good for business. You need multiple guys in the mix and while the SX season is going to start like that you really think its going to last? Congrats to RD5 on his outdoor championship. You know how boring that shit was to watch when his best competition was Alessi? When Stewart was 100% he didnt lose he gets hurt the championship was literally defaulted to dungey. If Reed, Villipoto, Stewart, Canard, Dungey, and a couple of other riders who have good days are all in the mix you know how much more exciting that becomes for everyone involved?

Just my thoughts on it every asshole is entitled to one doesnt make it right....
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 8:06pm
12/9/2012 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 8:15pm
jndmx wrote:
JLong did a pretty good job of it with his post and I believe I did as well, you just regurgitated the same percentages. Unemployment and...
JLong did a pretty good job of it with his post and I believe I did as well, you just regurgitated the same percentages.

Unemployment and under-employment have been at an all time high, people that are working have seen their home values drop by 50% here where I live and that will have a pretty direct effect on the amount of money they spend.

The sport went through a tremendous boom in the late 90's early 2000's....it was a huge jump.
Naturally you cannot expect any industry to sustain that kind of high point.

Let's not forget that all of the factories have drastically cut back on contingency money on the local level.....that matters when it comes to new bike sales.
Some folks are getting an extra year out of a bike when they used to buy new every year or 2 years to qualify for the contingency money.

Pardon the pun but these things run in cycles and right now all of the economy factors mentioned have driven the low point in the cycle.

There are also a lot of folks that just plain want to ride more than race, they still have bikes but they keep them longer and just ride trails or practice.

And please don't act like you don't take every opportunity to stick the knife in whenever MX Sports is the topic....I've been here for a while.
The economy is tough but the motorcycle industry is God awful. Tough times require action. DC says he's interested in growing OEM sales. He's good friends with JEB so why not ask him how his company has been successful through these tough times. Maybe he could share the answers with the Japanese OEM's.

Am I a fanboy like you toward MX Sports or DC? No. They are running a business and that business is AMA Pro Motocross. But it is their business to run as they wish. If I were to say what irritates me it would be the uncanny knack that DC has for draping himself with the blanket of; hey don't shoot me I'm the messenger, hey it's not my fault I just work here, people love the WMX, hey we tried our best and (best of all) there just wasn't any support. Too all I would say um that's bullshit. It is his and John Ayers business and the Coombs family controls a number of the stops on the circuit. His hands are on the wheel so why the act?
Overdrive
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Overdrive 12/9/2012 8:16pm
12/9/2012 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 8:22pm
To think some noob started this crap storm with his first post. Bravo noob (if your actually a noob)


US median income lowest since 1995, Yet bike prices are going through the roof, the reason why iphones and xbox's are getting all the play time is because they cost way less than a $10,000 time bomb +gear+fee's+++++++

This sport needs to keep it simple Davey and we are loosing sight of that. Thanks for participating in the discussion, you are the only industry person who has. Kudos to you.

The economy is not getting any better and may just get even worse, another 4 years of this and the local scene will be totally dried up. Someone needs to make a course correction, I happen to think letting 2 strokes in the nationals would send the OEMs a message that its time to make that correction.
jndmx
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jndmx 12/9/2012 8:24pm
12/9/2012 8:24pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
The economy is tough but the motorcycle industry is God awful. Tough times require action. DC says he's interested in growing OEM sales. He's good friends...
The economy is tough but the motorcycle industry is God awful. Tough times require action. DC says he's interested in growing OEM sales. He's good friends with JEB so why not ask him how his company has been successful through these tough times. Maybe he could share the answers with the Japanese OEM's.

Am I a fanboy like you toward MX Sports or DC? No. They are running a business and that business is AMA Pro Motocross. But it is their business to run as they wish. If I were to say what irritates me it would be the uncanny knack that DC has for draping himself with the blanket of; hey don't shoot me I'm the messenger, hey it's not my fault I just work here, people love the WMX, hey we tried our best and (best of all) there just wasn't any support. Too all I would say um that's bullshit. It is his and John Ayers business and the Coombs family controls a number of the stops on the circuit. His hands are on the wheel so why the act?
Just because I look at all the factors involved in the downturn that doesn't make me a fanboy of anyone.
It makes me smart enough to look at the entire picture some of which has to do with costs of the sport and peoples ability to afford it.

Please point out to me where in any of this I have said anything about what MX Sports is doing or not doing......let me save you the time....I didn't.

Not once in any of my posts did I say anything about DC or MX Sports except to point out that you have a chip on your shoulder for whatever reason towards them.
You responded by blasting away at them yet again.....thanks for proving my point.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 12/9/2012 8:36pm
12/9/2012 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2012 8:43pm
Bauer wrote:
So MX Sports and the Amateur (PLEASE NOTE THE SPELLING, IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO REMEMBER) National Championship is the root of all MX evil, sucking...
So MX Sports and the Amateur (PLEASE NOTE THE SPELLING, IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO REMEMBER) National Championship is the root of all MX evil, sucking the life out of local MX?

Please explain your reasoning for that conclusion. I'm pretty sure it will require you to be more creative than your advice of adding a KTM/Yamaha (125) class to the Amatuer(sic) racing.

Bear in mind that I was one of the guys that raced 4-5 times a week for a living, lining up on Sundays at Saddleback and Carlsbad behind a gate with 30+ of the fastest riders in the world. I can commiserate with you regarding the changes over the years to the local racing scene, but I just don't see how the advent and subsequent rise in stature of the AMA Amateur National Championship had anything to do with declining numbers of club racers.

I hear the WORCS series is on it's last legs, with like half a dozen entrants in one of the pro classes at the final round. Did Davey suck the life out of that series also? Or perhaps there are other factors? Maybe WORCS just needs to add a KTM/Yamaha class to their "amatuer" program...yeah, that'll fix it!
Sory Baeur me so tupid to no howz to spellz

If the customers and the conventional wisdom agree that the 250F is hurting the sport then maybe just maybe someone should take a look at something that worked pretty freaking well for 30+ years.

My point about LL is people spend a fortune to go race a qualifier for LL and the other must show events and local mx suffers. The factories supported this because if the were going to spend money then they want to spend it in one venue and rigs roll to one place. Its become the only path to a ride in the sport. Local MX suffers. If racers are traveling all over to get to a qualifier then local mx suffers.

How does it effect Local Pro gates? Because everyone stayed in the AM's to get contingency and to be able to qualify as a "b" instead of what they did when we were kids go local pro.

For the record Baeur the WORCS has always supported the 125 class and they've always allowed 250 on 250 racing.
powDIRT
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powDIRT 12/9/2012 10:34pm
12/9/2012 10:34pm
Here in NJ, I'll say the biggest problem the sport has is the lack of legal riding areas. Parents don't even think about buying their kids a bike because "there is no place to ride". Parents don't want to have to take their kids to a motocross track to teach them how to ride for the first time. And 3 hour drives to riding areas are a big deterrent for most. I'm sure you guys out west don't have these issues, but I'm sure that's an issue for a decent chunk of the east coast.
Braaap14
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Braaap14 12/10/2012 1:06am
12/10/2012 1:06am
DC,


the t.v. package we have for supercross IS excellent,


but the airing for the outdoors is terrible,

lets be honest here.

I love and care for this sport as much as anybody, more consistent air times, and accessible broadcast stations would open it up and make it more visible for riders, sponsors and fans / potential fans.
chump6784
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chump6784 12/10/2012 1:09am
12/10/2012 1:09am
powDIRT wrote:
Here in NJ, I'll say the biggest problem the sport has is the lack of legal riding areas. Parents don't even think about buying their kids...
Here in NJ, I'll say the biggest problem the sport has is the lack of legal riding areas. Parents don't even think about buying their kids a bike because "there is no place to ride". Parents don't want to have to take their kids to a motocross track to teach them how to ride for the first time. And 3 hour drives to riding areas are a big deterrent for most. I'm sure you guys out west don't have these issues, but I'm sure that's an issue for a decent chunk of the east coast.
That is pretty much how i feel where i live in Australia. The 3 closest tracks to me have been shut due to neighbours complaints, the closest track to me is 1.5 hours away and the only place my daughter can learn to ride. I nearly didnt buy her a bike because i knew this would be the case.

Over here motocross hasn't got that much more expensive in the last 10 years, the bikes are about 2k more for an open bike and fuel is dearer but that is it.

As far as the local scene in the US, it seems as tho Pro MX and amateur MX seem to work against eachother. Over here we have one governing body for all motocross series that set a baseline of rules like bike classes and then the different states have their own rules on things like track layout etc.

If/when the economy picks up dirt bike sales will pick up but while people are struggling to make ends meet and riding area's are being closed bike sales will suffer
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 12/10/2012 1:39am
12/10/2012 1:39am
Hey Chump. I am guessing there is a fair chance you are in Brisbane. The biggest thing here killing us is the lack of riding areas. Bike sales, especially new bike sales, have been very good lately, and seem to be on the up. Nothing is being done about the lack riding areas though, and I dont see any new tracks or clubs opening any time soon. But we still have several other tracks under threat of closing due to the land that they are currently using. These shops that rely on bike sales, accessory sales etc to survive are not interested in helping either. It would be great to think that there is work being done behind the scenes in regards to our track situation, but I am not so sure that it is.
Big
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Big 12/10/2012 2:15am
12/10/2012 2:15am
10 years ago i teached/trained absolute beginners to everyone up to 125 in our club. There was at best nearly 40 kids waiting on the gate. 3 days ago same club had a meeting about their survival. I asked WTF is going on? They said that economics but most of all 3 death accidents last year in MX scene little Sweden just pulled the plug over night. They where 9 young riders training this year (at most) in probably Swedens biggest MX/Enduro club........not for long? I try to stay positive because my passion for the sport. But going to recommend my hopefully future grandkids to do something else. Why? A Mx family becomes like junkies chasing money to be able to ride. Even worse if familymember start being fast enough to be at top level. Why? Can you tell your son/daughter that they have to quit or they must shut down racing suddenly? Not an option. Now to todays whining...Wink Can you tell your son/daughter they never going to compete at GP level because you never can afford starting/teamfee to Llongo-bastard? Even if you have a bike and a van ready with sponsor pays gasmoney?Yepp! Thats easier because that counts for everyone eccept sometimes 19 parents/sponsors in the world. Llongo and his ball-suckers in FIM doesn't give a s....about the future. Why? They starting to become too old for the hookers at certain GPs anyway....Evil
Motocross Illustrated 12/10/2012 4:19am
12/10/2012 4:19am
kijen wrote:
Yeah we can't compare what is going on with the pros' as a refelction of the sports health. In the last 2 years the turn out...
Yeah we can't compare what is going on with the pros' as a refelction of the sports health. In the last 2 years the turn out for local races here in north fl has decreased a notciable amount. Just because we see more races on TV shows that Feld and DC are doing their best to promote "THEIR series" which is thier business and really has no impact on what happens at the grass roots of MX or other forms of dirt bike riding. This horse is dead....economey and the cost of bikes and mainteance are the biggest factors. The begginer classes used to be the biggest, now they are very small, also many families I know that were C and B riders, typical local guys who made it a family event have stopped racing though they still ride quite a bit, the small bike classes are sparse and like others have said, if it was not for Vet riders it would be much worse...for the money a practice day is a much better bang for the buck, then the time and money it cost to ride a few laps on race day.

Oh and tracks are stuggling to stay open too, that will be the next step....as the demand drops (less riders), the tracks will close...

The sport (grass roots) of MX or dirt bikes in general has no orginization, it's health is left to the current particpants, manufactures /local dealers and clubs/series to figure out. Some areas will survie and others will not, all of which have nothing to do with Pro's on TV.

Overall the sport is NOT growing when compared to when I was a kid...
All what you said might have more to do with the economy than anything else. No money, no bikes, no bikes no track open.

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