New TM 85. Looks really good

Lawrence929 9/5/2012 3:40pm
9/5/2012 3:40pm
newmann wrote:
I bought a new 2007 CR85 for my youngest son and it too was a fairly outdated looking machine. Ran decent but nothing overly impressive about...
I bought a new 2007 CR85 for my youngest son and it too was a fairly outdated looking machine. Ran decent but nothing overly impressive about the bike. When the CRF150R came out, it looked like a fifteen year old design the first year out.
hahahah. I thought that bout the 150 too! Very blah. They seemed to waste almost no time throwing it into the BNG program also....
onthepipe
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onthepipe 9/5/2012 10:32pm
9/5/2012 10:32pm
Barrett57 wrote:
Why does everyone leave the cr85 out? those things were insane from what I remember from my 85 days. My kx couldnt touch it.
The cr85 still hasn't got a powervalve if i'm correct.
ML512
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ML512 9/5/2012 11:14pm
9/5/2012 11:14pm
One of the japs is updating their 85 finally for this next yearWink
MCfan4life
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MCfan4life 9/6/2012 2:46am
9/6/2012 2:46am
My first 80 was a 1982 KX80. Man times have changed...



Not my actual bike by the way, it's somebody else's resto.

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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 9/6/2012 3:20am
9/6/2012 3:20am
I always thought it was interesting how little yamaha has changed their yz 80 over the past recent years. Something to be said for that? Seemed like all the fast up and comers used to ride these things at one point.

1999


2012
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 9/6/2012 3:25am
9/6/2012 3:25am

My first 80. 1996 cr80. Loved this bike. Would have liked to ride that little TM when I was a little guy too. Sometimes I wish I stayed at 5'4'' instead of 6'4''...
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jock 9/6/2012 3:31am
9/6/2012 3:31am
MCfan4life wrote:
My first 80 was a 1982 KX80. Man times have changed... [img]http://www.cmsnl.com/img/community/vehicles/6/60/605/60525/big_201008301618240.!B0NP(ZwCWk~$(KGrHqJ,!g4Ew5GZJQsfBMZV)QTQSQ~~_12[2].jpg[/img] Not my [i]actual[/i] bike by the way, it's somebody else's resto.
My first 80 was a 1982 KX80. Man times have changed...



Not my actual bike by the way, it's somebody else's resto.
I had the 81 model Col, the little sucker kept nipping up. Kawi fixed it for me though.
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MiSledder 9/6/2012 6:10am
9/6/2012 6:10am
You guys are talking like money is no object, I have 2 very nice RM85's for less then 3k, parts are cheap and everywhere, Why? cause they are unchanged from 2006-2013, And 02-05 are basically the same, Everyone s bitching about the cost of this sport and bikes but when there's an affordable class everyone want's the high dollar bikes, With some suspension work the RM85 is still a great bike!
BobTheBuilder
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BobTheBuilder 9/6/2012 7:11am
9/6/2012 7:11am
ML512 wrote:
One of the japs is updating their 85 finally for this next yearWink
Who????

The Kawi rumor has been going on for years but same old bike every fall.
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j100 9/6/2012 8:02am
9/6/2012 8:02am
j100 wrote:
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive. the KTM is like...
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive.

the KTM is like 25 pounds lighter than the KX 85. the KTM up like 7-8 HP on the KX too.

so for all of you guys that are saying the jap bikes are still good, you're wrong. no way can you compete against the KTM's if it's comparable rider to rider.

Kawi has the rider support so they get all the good kids. KTM is making a big push in the next few years so you will start seeing a lot of good kids making the switch.

Chase Bell raced a bone stock KTM 85 in the 12-13 classes at mini o's last year and never lost a moto. even better, i think he holeshotted every moto.

the KTM 105 is 30HP, stock. the KX 100 is like 20-21 HP. the KX is down 9HP and 25 LBS heavier.
BobTheBuilder wrote:
The bottom line is those advantages on paper do not translate to the track. If they did everyone would on a KTM 85 and the japs...
The bottom line is those advantages on paper do not translate to the track. If they did everyone would on a KTM 85 and the japs would be designing new bikes. The YZ or RM is just as competitive in stock form as a KTM, and in modified form the YZ and RM and KX are BETTER than the KTM, as well as a lot cheaper and more reliable. The KTM's linkless stickbug handling nullifies any advantage extra power and lighter weight bring.
you are out of your fucking mind!

put two top kids on stock vs stock bikes and the KTM kid will work the KX kid. it's not even fair and for you to say that just goes to show what a fucking moron you are.
j100
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j100 9/6/2012 8:09am
9/6/2012 8:09am
j100 wrote:
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive. the KTM is like...
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive.

the KTM is like 25 pounds lighter than the KX 85. the KTM up like 7-8 HP on the KX too.

so for all of you guys that are saying the jap bikes are still good, you're wrong. no way can you compete against the KTM's if it's comparable rider to rider.

Kawi has the rider support so they get all the good kids. KTM is making a big push in the next few years so you will start seeing a lot of good kids making the switch.

Chase Bell raced a bone stock KTM 85 in the 12-13 classes at mini o's last year and never lost a moto. even better, i think he holeshotted every moto.

the KTM 105 is 30HP, stock. the KX 100 is like 20-21 HP. the KX is down 9HP and 25 LBS heavier.
steveada wrote:
The fact is that the RM, KX, and YZ are competitive. When you are talking about riders like Chase Bell and Adam C. it doesn't matter...
The fact is that the RM, KX, and YZ are competitive. When you are talking about riders like Chase Bell and Adam C. it doesn't matter what bike they are on, they will dominate, just as Chase did when he was riding a kawi. Look past the top guys getting all the support and there is no KTM domination. My kids have been racing 85's for 5 years now, riding RM, Kx, and Ktm and in this class it all comes down to which bike the rider is most comfortable on. If a stock KTM really has a 30% HP advantage over a stock kawi (which I highly doubt), it most definitely does not translate to performance on the track.
Chase will be the 1st to tell you that his bikes were insane.

Zach even rode his bikes and said i would've loved to have ridden these when i was on mini's.

it's not even the HP difference. its the newer brakes, larger forks, less weight, ect... they don't even compare when you look at them.

how can you tell me a bike that's 25 pounds heaver and down 9 HP is a comparable bike? not to mention all the newer technology on basically everything...

we were with Kawasaki since 2002, won a lot of titles for them and i'm telling you 1st hand that the bikes do NOT compare.
LeVar Burton 9/6/2012 8:23am
9/6/2012 8:23am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2012 8:25am
j100 wrote:
Chase will be the 1st to tell you that his bikes were insane. Zach even rode his bikes and said i would've loved to have ridden...
Chase will be the 1st to tell you that his bikes were insane.

Zach even rode his bikes and said i would've loved to have ridden these when i was on mini's.

it's not even the HP difference. its the newer brakes, larger forks, less weight, ect... they don't even compare when you look at them.

how can you tell me a bike that's 25 pounds heaver and down 9 HP is a comparable bike? not to mention all the newer technology on basically everything...

we were with Kawasaki since 2002, won a lot of titles for them and i'm telling you 1st hand that the bikes do NOT compare.
I was going to point that out, but you can usually tell when someone posts something like that they can not be reasoned with. Some people just REFUSE to look at anything that isn't JApanese, and it this point, I say let 'em be.

25lbs heavier, and down 9hp but it is a "better" bike because the KTM is linkless?

The YZ, KX, and RM were great when Ricky Carmichael, Justin Buckelew, and Charlie Bogard were banging bars at Ponca...and Bill Clinton had just stepped into office.

As far as dealer support, Cycle Playground has you covered on the east coast, and I think there is a west coast dealer too. They can put anything in the mail for you. Funny, people buy damned near EVERYTHING over the internet from motosport these days, but still bitch about "no dealer support". Why? Are you going to go lay your DUCKETS on the BARREL HEAD for some piston rings?
Lawrence929 9/6/2012 8:30am
9/6/2012 8:30am
j100 wrote:
you are out of your fucking mind! put two top kids on stock vs stock bikes and the KTM kid will work the KX kid. it's...
you are out of your fucking mind!

put two top kids on stock vs stock bikes and the KTM kid will work the KX kid. it's not even fair and for you to say that just goes to show what a fucking moron you are.
https://youtu.be/FONN-0uoTHI
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steveada 9/6/2012 9:03am
9/6/2012 9:03am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2012 9:24am
j100 wrote:
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive. the KTM is like...
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive.

the KTM is like 25 pounds lighter than the KX 85. the KTM up like 7-8 HP on the KX too.

so for all of you guys that are saying the jap bikes are still good, you're wrong. no way can you compete against the KTM's if it's comparable rider to rider.

Kawi has the rider support so they get all the good kids. KTM is making a big push in the next few years so you will start seeing a lot of good kids making the switch.

Chase Bell raced a bone stock KTM 85 in the 12-13 classes at mini o's last year and never lost a moto. even better, i think he holeshotted every moto.

the KTM 105 is 30HP, stock. the KX 100 is like 20-21 HP. the KX is down 9HP and 25 LBS heavier.
steveada wrote:
The fact is that the RM, KX, and YZ are competitive. When you are talking about riders like Chase Bell and Adam C. it doesn't matter...
The fact is that the RM, KX, and YZ are competitive. When you are talking about riders like Chase Bell and Adam C. it doesn't matter what bike they are on, they will dominate, just as Chase did when he was riding a kawi. Look past the top guys getting all the support and there is no KTM domination. My kids have been racing 85's for 5 years now, riding RM, Kx, and Ktm and in this class it all comes down to which bike the rider is most comfortable on. If a stock KTM really has a 30% HP advantage over a stock kawi (which I highly doubt), it most definitely does not translate to performance on the track.
j100 wrote:
Chase will be the 1st to tell you that his bikes were insane. Zach even rode his bikes and said i would've loved to have ridden...
Chase will be the 1st to tell you that his bikes were insane.

Zach even rode his bikes and said i would've loved to have ridden these when i was on mini's.

it's not even the HP difference. its the newer brakes, larger forks, less weight, ect... they don't even compare when you look at them.

how can you tell me a bike that's 25 pounds heaver and down 9 HP is a comparable bike? not to mention all the newer technology on basically everything...

we were with Kawasaki since 2002, won a lot of titles for them and i'm telling you 1st hand that the bikes do NOT compare.
First off, the dry weight of the KTM85 is 152.11 lbs. The KX85 weighs 152.1. They are the same weight, so right there half of your premise is completely wrong and shows that you are mostly full of BS.. Secondly, I have owned 2 KTM 85's and I can tell you first hand that they look awesome, have better suspension components, and a hydrolic clutch which is nice. They are not faster on the track, and while it takes a good technician, you can set up the suspension on the RM and KX to be superior to the KTM. If you are Chase Bell and have a mechanic and factory support it doesn't matter, but if you are like 99% of the racers out there, throwing a significant amount of money away to buy a "updated" bike with no benefit on the track is stupid. Believe me, I know because I did it for a season and still kick myself in the butt for drinking the orange koolaid (for the 85's). Just bought a 2013 KTM 125sx, which is the bike my kid is most comfortable on, so it's not like I hate KTM's or something. In the 85/supermini class, they just have nothing on the other bikes.
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loftyair 9/6/2012 9:08am
9/6/2012 9:08am
We have had all the mini's, raced and rode them all for months on end. Except for a short time on the cr85, which is a great bike btw. Had the crf150r, yz85, kx85, rm85, ktm 85sx, and kx85. After all that, the yz is the way to go. Although the kx and rm are not far off(cr too). It is true, the ktm is a far superior machine, but unless you are a far superior rider, it's too much. If you aren't really good, then even the yz is too much, and you need the kx or rm because of the low end power provided by the p-valve. We are no longer on mini's(thank God). If and or when I have a grand kid wanting to race the mini's, with these current models, it would be rm or kx, until he is ready for the top-end screamer of a yz.
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BobTheBuilder 9/6/2012 9:14am
9/6/2012 9:14am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2012 9:20am
j100 wrote:
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive. the KTM is like...
you guys have no idea how much better the KTM 85's are than the jap bikes if you're saying they're still competitive.

the KTM is like 25 pounds lighter than the KX 85. the KTM up like 7-8 HP on the KX too.

so for all of you guys that are saying the jap bikes are still good, you're wrong. no way can you compete against the KTM's if it's comparable rider to rider.

Kawi has the rider support so they get all the good kids. KTM is making a big push in the next few years so you will start seeing a lot of good kids making the switch.

Chase Bell raced a bone stock KTM 85 in the 12-13 classes at mini o's last year and never lost a moto. even better, i think he holeshotted every moto.

the KTM 105 is 30HP, stock. the KX 100 is like 20-21 HP. the KX is down 9HP and 25 LBS heavier.
BobTheBuilder wrote:
The bottom line is those advantages on paper do not translate to the track. If they did everyone would on a KTM 85 and the japs...
The bottom line is those advantages on paper do not translate to the track. If they did everyone would on a KTM 85 and the japs would be designing new bikes. The YZ or RM is just as competitive in stock form as a KTM, and in modified form the YZ and RM and KX are BETTER than the KTM, as well as a lot cheaper and more reliable. The KTM's linkless stickbug handling nullifies any advantage extra power and lighter weight bring.
j100 wrote:
you are out of your fucking mind! put two top kids on stock vs stock bikes and the KTM kid will work the KX kid. it's...
you are out of your fucking mind!

put two top kids on stock vs stock bikes and the KTM kid will work the KX kid. it's not even fair and for you to say that just goes to show what a fucking moron you are.
Tried them all except the CR. I see the difference in technology and it makes no difference on the track. Having the latest and greatest is a placebo effect for some, you and the rest of those people are out of their mind. I live in a world where rider comfort and lap times count. Plus we don't have KTMs anymore because I don't want to constantly fix exploded motors.
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DrSweden 9/6/2012 10:23am
9/6/2012 10:23am
newmann wrote:
You better watch your back posting up pics like that. The four stroke fantards are keeping count and will strike back at you in the future...
You better watch your back posting up pics like that. The four stroke fantards are keeping count and will strike back at you in the future you you you Negative Nancy......Wink
Ha! I picture they can handle my crappy humor, if not its their loss a bit! Don't forget, I'm in favour of the two diff types coexisting! Cool
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dcg141 9/6/2012 12:18pm
9/6/2012 12:18pm
The 85 business is its own world. Its not mini and its not full size. KTM has updated thier 85 twice now since the big 4 and although on paper it has superior components like 43MM forks and hydo clutches at the track the older designs are still very competitive. Thier lies the problem for Kaw, Yam and Suz. Do you do a major upgrade and have a significant increase in price or just keep slightly updating? Honda stepped out on that limb with the 150 and it did not work out so well with sales.

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LeVar Burton 9/6/2012 12:33pm
9/6/2012 12:33pm
There is a 65cc out there now with al aluminum perimeter frame and huge USD forks. it has an italian name, not Polini or anything like that.

Any of you mini dads know which one im talking about? It's so trick, that even in "stock" condition they make you run "mod" class in the AMA. I was in awe of the thing at Budds Creek. Some guy out there has 2 of them.

Well, needless to say, he pulls 150Rs up those hills at Budds, no problem. But that 150 isn't really like a CRF250R baby sized, its more like a XR with a liquid cooled head, if that makes sense. its just not the performer that the big brothers are. KTM65s pull them too, and they cant even touch an 85.
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kzizok 9/6/2012 12:51pm
9/6/2012 12:51pm
LeVar Burton wrote:
There is a 65cc out there now with al aluminum perimeter frame and huge USD forks. it has an italian name, not Polini or anything like...
There is a 65cc out there now with al aluminum perimeter frame and huge USD forks. it has an italian name, not Polini or anything like that.

Any of you mini dads know which one im talking about? It's so trick, that even in "stock" condition they make you run "mod" class in the AMA. I was in awe of the thing at Budds Creek. Some guy out there has 2 of them.

Well, needless to say, he pulls 150Rs up those hills at Budds, no problem. But that 150 isn't really like a CRF250R baby sized, its more like a XR with a liquid cooled head, if that makes sense. its just not the performer that the big brothers are. KTM65s pull them too, and they cant even touch an 85.
Was it yellow? Maybe its a Metrakit.
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PaleBlue 9/6/2012 11:47pm
9/6/2012 11:47pm
This is all a little off topic.

To bring it back , what a wonderfull looking bit of kit. And if past experience is anything to go by it'll go as good as it looks.

It doesn't matter if not everybody desires it, TM's are for discerning customers who want quality and to be just a bit different from the crowd. Think Bimota for road bikes or Noble for cars.

The only down was that they lost a LOT of sales here in the UK, when this didn't appear when it was promised in Jan 2012. Worth waiting for though, I think....
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NP301 9/7/2012 3:45am
9/7/2012 3:45am
Click here
newmann
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newmann 9/7/2012 5:45am
9/7/2012 5:45am
LeVar Burton wrote:
There is a 65cc out there now with al aluminum perimeter frame and huge USD forks. it has an italian name, not Polini or anything like...
There is a 65cc out there now with al aluminum perimeter frame and huge USD forks. it has an italian name, not Polini or anything like that.

Any of you mini dads know which one im talking about? It's so trick, that even in "stock" condition they make you run "mod" class in the AMA. I was in awe of the thing at Budds Creek. Some guy out there has 2 of them.

Well, needless to say, he pulls 150Rs up those hills at Budds, no problem. But that 150 isn't really like a CRF250R baby sized, its more like a XR with a liquid cooled head, if that makes sense. its just not the performer that the big brothers are. KTM65s pull them too, and they cant even touch an 85.
kzizok wrote:
Was it yellow? Maybe its a Metrakit.
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Lightning78 9/7/2012 6:34am
9/7/2012 6:34am
WOW!!! Those aluminum framed 85's loou suh-weet1!! I was wondering how long it was gonna be before a mfg went this route on a mini. I can only imagine the weight savings to that bike but especially ANY 85....a lot of the basic components are steel and useless....if the 85's were treated to what a normal mx bike got in terms of hardware they would considerably lighter which is why the TM and KTM are so much lighter.....The Japanese really need to update their bikes......A LOT because eventually it WILL come into play, kids wanting the latest and greatest .....and once those kids startt winning the Japanese and going to lose even more market share.....I guess their collusion got the best of them with honda coming out on top.....no updates for a while "check!, price increase that isnt justified "check!" ......
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motomcd 9/7/2012 12:59pm
9/7/2012 12:59pm
if steveada know who j100 was he would not be fighting with him over bike knowledge its like fighting with michael jordon over the rules of basketball
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chump6784 9/7/2012 3:32pm
9/7/2012 3:32pm
newmann wrote:
[img]http://metrakit.com.au/metrakit/images/stories/dirt/MK65%20in%20Milan%20Show.jpg[/img]
there was one of those Metrakit 65's for sale at my local track a couple months ago. Looked very trick, had Paoli forks and a cone pipe

The September 2010 issue of Australasian Dirt bike magazine had a shootout of the 85's/150. They got together a group of fast kids and let them loose on the bikes. The bikes were ridden in standard form. There were no technicians there to tweak the bikes, the kids rode them and said what they though about them

Honda CRF 150 - Fastest lap - 1:47.8 minutes
Weight - 84.9 kg
All the kids said it was easy to ride but as none of them were used to four strokes this may be why the lap time was down.

KTM 85 - Fastest lap - 1:45.5 minutes
Weight - 73.6 kg
Best bottom end motor in class that pulls well all the way through. Shock was soft for the big kids with forks feeling harsh. chassis also appeared a lot bigger than the other brands, especially for the little kids

Suzuki Rm 85 - Fastest lap - 1:45.5 minutes
Weight - 75.3 kg
Good bottom end and mid range, not as good as KTM, forks too soft for bigger riders

Yamaha YZ 85 - Fastest lap - 1:46.0 minutes
Weight - 76.9 kg
Bottom end and mid range was lacking but a strong top. Suspension too hard in the front for little guys, too soft in the back for the big guys. Rated best in tight turns.

KX 85 wasn't available for testing

Obviously the suspension would be tuned for the rider but stock for stock these are all in the ballpark of eachother
aFACEdismembered 9/7/2012 3:48pm
9/7/2012 3:48pm
A good portion is what hasn't even been talked about yet are the updated ergonomics and handling of a new machine. If you were to take ergonomics/set up from a 1998 KTM 125 and apply them to a 2012 SX 125 it would feel like a pile of shit. That is essentially what mini kids are riding nowadays. Bikes built for riding styles/tracks created 15 years ago. We don't ride like that anymore so why should bikes still be built like that? Even if a Jap bike can be ridden wide open and feels comfortable that doesn't mean there isn't MORE potential to be achieved on what is arguably a more advanced bike. No tests to go off of right now.
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Drtbykr 9/7/2012 5:48pm
9/7/2012 5:48pm
The big boys MX1 class in Canada have a couple of TM's, and are hauling the mail. Davey Fraser looked awesome in Moncton on his.

Gotta have dealer support though to grow. Very sexy little bike.

Even Ossa are doing some cool stuff, like DI. Guess the little factories (and KTM) aren't told no by accounting much, which is great.
thebleakness
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thebleakness 9/7/2012 8:23pm
9/7/2012 8:23pm
I think my '11 250mx will be looking like that really soon. Such a sweet looking bike.

Apparently TM has a DI system already but I doubt they will implement it until the new emissions regs go in in Europe in 2014(?). I think I'll buy one then. They didn't change much between my '11 and the '13s.
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Tracktor 9/7/2012 8:36pm
9/7/2012 8:36pm
dcg141 wrote:
The 85 business is its own world. Its not mini and its not full size. KTM has updated thier 85 twice now since the big 4...
The 85 business is its own world. Its not mini and its not full size. KTM has updated thier 85 twice now since the big 4 and although on paper it has superior components like 43MM forks and hydo clutches at the track the older designs are still very competitive. Thier lies the problem for Kaw, Yam and Suz. Do you do a major upgrade and have a significant increase in price or just keep slightly updating? Honda stepped out on that limb with the 150 and it did not work out so well with sales.
^^^^This. The 85 class is the cheapest to run. You can pick up good used 85's all day long for $1000 and be racing the next day. Everyone on this board bitches about the price of MX bikes and then turns around and advocates for more expensive bikes?...........................snappin' springs on the ignorance scale..........................

Post a reply to: New TM 85. Looks really good