After listening to James' podcast.....

rcm406
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Edited Date/Time 8/24/2012 4:06pm
does he have a point about the outdoor tracks or is it just sour grapes? He said he's been really disappointed in the tracks from the start. said they were way to narrow and some were even downright dangerous(unadilla especially). I have not been to any nationals this year so I wouldn't know. just curious, are they really that bad this year? BTW, it's a great podcast
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Ramrod
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8/22/2012 10:13am
It's his opinion on the tracks and that's all. He hasn't raced them in ages so maybe he is right or doesn't remember how it was from before.

I say Bravo James! He's getting better communicating with us mx fans instead of being a recluse like years past. He gives a great podcast any time he has done one.
BAMX
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8/22/2012 10:15am
Did they make them more narrow than they have been in the past?

Unadilla was dangerous when you hit the rhythm section going twice as fast as everyone else....just saying.
Grieby54
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8/22/2012 10:16am Edited Date/Time 8/22/2012 10:18am
Be prepared for a flood of hate.

My opinion (and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this as well) is that Unadilla sucked. I know that motocross is ruts, bumps, and downright brutal, but Unadilla was too much. If I wanted to see someone tiptoe around to try and survive the race, I'd watch Enduro. I was thinking that as soon as the first moto started - it just doesn't lend itself to good racing. At Unadilla a pass was made because some guy's leg just got torn off in a rut or because he flew 10 feet off the track because he cross-rutted. I like to see wide open, bar-to-bar racing where a pass is set up and executed, or one attack is counter-attacked by the other rider. Not because the guys are locked into a rut like a train on tracks and one line just so happened to be quicker than the other. That's just not good racing.

As far as the other tracks this year - I think they've been pretty decent. The problem is that this sport has advanced so much with bike technology, and timing technology that everyone is doing nearly the same thing. Physically speaking, there is going to be one line around the track that is the fastest. That's just a fact. In the past riders had to go by what "felt" the fastest, rather than comparing split times from practice. Now that every rider knows the fastest line around the track, they're all using that line. So, unless you're substantially quicker than the guy in front of you and you can make another line work, you're going to be stuck behind him.
BR_HERO
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8/22/2012 10:16am
That was a great interview. Hope he heals up fast enough to make it out for MEC.

The Shop

danman
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8/22/2012 10:20am
People can complain all they want, but everyone was racing the same tracks. I just think he's too used to having a smooth SX track to ride on. Yes, the tracks are rough, but it makes me appreciate those guys that much more when I see how fast they can go on it.
426Hemi
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8/22/2012 10:24am
Wait, I thought a year or so ago alot of people on this board were bitching that the tracks were being smoothed out too much between motos? Is there a happy medium? I am sure this is something DC and crew will be looking into, as rider input is the most important tool in making better races.
GuyB
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8/22/2012 10:25am
Going as fast as you can is exactly that. Going as fast as you can...not necessarily as fast as you want to. There's a big difference.
GuyB
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8/22/2012 10:27am
426Hemi wrote:
Wait, I thought a year or so ago alot of people on this board were bitching that the tracks were being smoothed out too much between...
Wait, I thought a year or so ago alot of people on this board were bitching that the tracks were being smoothed out too much between motos? Is there a happy medium? I am sure this is something DC and crew will be looking into, as rider input is the most important tool in making better races.
Reality vs. perception.

A lot of people bitch about stuff that they see on TV. Actually getting out to races and seeing what's really happening is about the only way to know what's really going on.
Ramrod
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8/22/2012 10:31am
GuyB wrote:
Reality vs. perception. A lot of people bitch about stuff that they see on TV. Actually getting out to races and seeing what's really happening is...
Reality vs. perception.

A lot of people bitch about stuff that they see on TV. Actually getting out to races and seeing what's really happening is about the only way to know what's really going on.
GuyB, that is a load of common sense, something that people in general sometimes lack.
GuyB
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8/22/2012 10:33am
Ramrod wrote:
GuyB, that is a load of common sense, something that people in general sometimes lack.
I'm a fan of common sense. Smile
Bigfoot
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8/22/2012 10:40am
Ramrod wrote:
GuyB, that is a load of common sense, something that people in general sometimes lack.
GuyB wrote:
I'm a fan of common sense. Smile
But is sense really very common?
LoudLove
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8/22/2012 10:42am
Take a (primarily) grass track that hosts a race once a year, add a prodigious amount of rain, then sprinkle with 40 torque monsters. The result is what we saw last weekend. Which from my novice perspective looked like some damn good racin'! Dungey and Tomac certainly didn't have any issues uncovering ways to execute passes.
thehuck.0
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8/22/2012 10:55am
Boohoo.... :-(

Trainers fault
Bikes fault
Photographer crossing the tracks fault
Tracks fault


I liked watching the rough track. If they think it's too dangerous...slow down.
jeffro503
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8/22/2012 11:00am
It was a rough track......sometimes that happens.

It claimed a few guys........sometimes that happens to.

It sucks , but it's part of the sport.

I don't know why we are over thinking it.
peelout
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8/22/2012 11:22am
very interesting comments from a guy that hasn't raced outdoors in 3-4 years.

Dungey said he really liked the track. the difference is one guy went 1-1 and the other guy went 9-dnf.

i'm just disappointed that he got hurt for the 5th (#?) time this season counting supercross. would have been nice to see him finish out the year.
jeffro503
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8/22/2012 11:22am
BTW.....just finished listening to the podcast.....and it was really good. James was open and honest about a lot of stuff......refreshing to hear a rider speak his mind.

Side note : Thanks James and Matthes.......great interview.
chrisbuehler
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8/22/2012 11:31am
Last time he raced outdoors was 2008, one of the last years they were smoothing out the tracks. It probably was a shock to him how rough the tracks get but that's outdoor racing buddy
lucero10x
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8/22/2012 11:37am
Grieby54 wrote:
Be prepared for a flood of hate. My opinion (and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this as well) is that Unadilla sucked. I know...
Be prepared for a flood of hate.

My opinion (and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this as well) is that Unadilla sucked. I know that motocross is ruts, bumps, and downright brutal, but Unadilla was too much. If I wanted to see someone tiptoe around to try and survive the race, I'd watch Enduro. I was thinking that as soon as the first moto started - it just doesn't lend itself to good racing. At Unadilla a pass was made because some guy's leg just got torn off in a rut or because he flew 10 feet off the track because he cross-rutted. I like to see wide open, bar-to-bar racing where a pass is set up and executed, or one attack is counter-attacked by the other rider. Not because the guys are locked into a rut like a train on tracks and one line just so happened to be quicker than the other. That's just not good racing.

As far as the other tracks this year - I think they've been pretty decent. The problem is that this sport has advanced so much with bike technology, and timing technology that everyone is doing nearly the same thing. Physically speaking, there is going to be one line around the track that is the fastest. That's just a fact. In the past riders had to go by what "felt" the fastest, rather than comparing split times from practice. Now that every rider knows the fastest line around the track, they're all using that line. So, unless you're substantially quicker than the guy in front of you and you can make another line work, you're going to be stuck behind him.
First paragraph is spot on. I was nervous just watching that first 450 moto. I knew it was going to claim a few people and was almost relieved to see Alessi have a mechanical DNF.
GuyB
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8/22/2012 11:40am
Ramrod wrote:
GuyB, that is a load of common sense, something that people in general sometimes lack.
GuyB wrote:
I'm a fan of common sense. Smile
Bigfoot wrote:
But is sense really very common?
No, more uncommon than common.
dboivin
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8/22/2012 11:40am Edited Date/Time 8/22/2012 11:41am
nick wey posted on twitter as he was watching about how awesome the track looked. tough track + slowed the bikes down he said....which is somewhat true. interesting to see the different points that riders see in a condition of the track. coming from michigan, rutted muddy tracks are our wheelhouse.
DC
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8/22/2012 11:48am
It was a great interview, and James made some interesting points. Unadilla was a challenge for everyone, but I think it turned out to be a very good and technical race track. Not everyone would agree, but sometimes you can't win -- it will always be too smooth for one person and too rough for another.

At least no one is complaining about the rocks there anymore -- they've done a lot of work to make the soil much better, but there's nothing anyone could do about the massive amount of rain they got on Tuesday and then again on Friday after two months of drought.

DC
MX Sports
newmann
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8/22/2012 11:56am
Way back when, I had a centerfold from a moto mag hanging on the wall of a rutted muddy stretch of Unadilla slowing up some riders. It looked rough back then and didn't fail to impress as I caught a few motos on the tele the other day. All I could think was Holy $hit, that looks rough. Amazing place, lots of history.

FreshTopEnd
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8/22/2012 12:05pm
Hangtown definitely could be wider. It used to be a lot wider when they first made the move to Prairie City, and although it's gotten better in the last couple years than it was in the mid 00's, it's still a pretty narrow corridor in a lot of places compared to, say, Budds Creek.
reded
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8/22/2012 12:06pm
I don't recall this guy bitching about how bad the track conditions were on this particular day.

Grieby54
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8/22/2012 12:08pm
reded wrote:
I don't recall this guy bitching about how bad the track conditions were on this particular day. [img]http://www.buckleyphotos.com/classicprints/source/image/hannah-mxdesnations87-006.jpg[/img]
I don't recall this guy bitching about how bad the track conditions were on this particular day.

Probably because it was a mud race and conditions are understood to be poor. Last weekend was not a mudder. Also, I don't see the ruts he's in swallowing his bike up to the pegs like the ruts were last weekend.
reded
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8/22/2012 12:11pm
You should do a search for 1987 MXDN images. The ruts were there.
8/22/2012 12:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2012 12:13pm
I read in MXA a while back that the idea for sending the 450s out first before the 250s - was originally James Stewart's idea.

Obviously you don't get as successful as JS without knowing how to ride rough tracks but if the above point indicates anything, it's that he's perhaps pulling more towards smoother tracks these days as a personal preference.
chrisbuehler
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8/22/2012 12:18pm
I read in MXA a while back that the idea for sending the 450s out first before the 250s - was originally James Stewart's idea. Obviously...
I read in MXA a while back that the idea for sending the 450s out first before the 250s - was originally James Stewart's idea.

Obviously you don't get as successful as JS without knowing how to ride rough tracks but if the above point indicates anything, it's that he's perhaps pulling more towards smoother tracks these days as a personal preference.
I recall hearing something about James being a big proponent of the tracks being smoothed out
DonM
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Fantasy
8/22/2012 12:20pm
I read in MXA a while back that the idea for sending the 450s out first before the 250s - was originally James Stewart's idea. Obviously...
I read in MXA a while back that the idea for sending the 450s out first before the 250s - was originally James Stewart's idea.

Obviously you don't get as successful as JS without knowing how to ride rough tracks but if the above point indicates anything, it's that he's perhaps pulling more towards smoother tracks these days as a personal preference.
It was done for TV, mostly so they could hit the best time for the premier class....not James idea.
rcm406
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8/22/2012 12:27pm
Hell, he's even taking about how bad the supercross tracks were this year too. At the end of the podcast

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