So Let Me Get This Straight

jasonv43
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jasonv43
Edited Date/Time 5/3/2012 9:26am
In the span of three years, Glen Helen (arguably one of the baddest tracks on the circuit) went from this:





To this:



And now this:

|
jasonv43
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jasonv43 5/1/2012 1:45pm
5/1/2012 1:45pm
Seems legit.
Lawrence929 5/1/2012 1:46pm
5/1/2012 1:46pm
somebody was drinkin sizzurp on that ride.
Ramrod
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Ramrod 5/1/2012 1:48pm
5/1/2012 1:48pm
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 5/1/2012 1:50pm
5/1/2012 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2012 1:51pm
You are forgetting the World Championship that was just won by Michael Lieb a few weeks ago. I can't think of anything more prestigious than a World Championship. If you would like to find a review of the race, run a google search for "Vince Friese".

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MT MX
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MT MX 5/1/2012 1:56pm
5/1/2012 1:56pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
The owner (Bud) has had a tough couple of years, with no regards to Glen Helen. The majority of his family was killed up here in Montana in an airplane accident about a year and a half ago.......kids, kid's spouses, and grandkids.
Let him do what he wants to do. At least he is still supporting motorcycle competitions.
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Rooster 5/1/2012 2:11pm
5/1/2012 2:11pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the contract was enough to justify the expense of the renovations required. If they lost the national the following year, they probably would only have broken even for the one year they had on their contract.

Ask yourself if you would outlay the cash for an event like that with everything pointing towards only managing to break even when all is said and done. If MXsports had extended the contract for say three years they could have made money the second and third year to justify the expense.

Any time you're promoting and event that tales place outdoors, you're at the mercy of mother nature. People don't buy tickets until they know the weather will be good and if it rains you're going to see a massive drop off in attendance. You have to be very conservative when you're projecting numbers because the difference between a sunny day and a rainy one could mean hundreds of thousands in lost revenue.

I think Davey lost out the most on the deal though. From what I hear, he never got a dime from the promoters of the Pala Event.
Ryno23
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Ryno23 5/1/2012 2:12pm
5/1/2012 2:12pm
The wife and I were headed to Butte that day to visit her relatives and I remember seeing the fire and smoke of the crash when we were headed down Homestake pass. It must have happened maybe 15-20 minutes earlier as we could see emergency lights there already form the distance we were. Tragic isn't enough to describe his loss.
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wawazat 5/1/2012 2:13pm
5/1/2012 2:13pm
Big buzz for the freestyle show. Freeway billboards everywhere, ktm bikes set up local stores with red bull surrounding the bikes, should be cool.
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newmann 5/1/2012 2:22pm
5/1/2012 2:22pm
Before you go knocking GH, how'd that Pala thing work out? Shocked
jasonv43
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jasonv43 5/1/2012 2:26pm
5/1/2012 2:26pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
Rooster wrote:
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the...
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the contract was enough to justify the expense of the renovations required. If they lost the national the following year, they probably would only have broken even for the one year they had on their contract.

Ask yourself if you would outlay the cash for an event like that with everything pointing towards only managing to break even when all is said and done. If MXsports had extended the contract for say three years they could have made money the second and third year to justify the expense.

Any time you're promoting and event that tales place outdoors, you're at the mercy of mother nature. People don't buy tickets until they know the weather will be good and if it rains you're going to see a massive drop off in attendance. You have to be very conservative when you're projecting numbers because the difference between a sunny day and a rainy one could mean hundreds of thousands in lost revenue.

I think Davey lost out the most on the deal though. From what I hear, he never got a dime from the promoters of the Pala Event.
And how much money did they make or will make on the USGP / Red Bull event Vs. what they spent the last three years trying to get people to come out and watch? I cant' imagine they have made more money then what they would have made if they just took the one year deal.
jasonv43
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jasonv43 5/1/2012 2:30pm
5/1/2012 2:30pm
wawazat wrote:
Big buzz for the freestyle show. Freeway billboards everywhere, ktm bikes set up local stores with red bull surrounding the bikes, should be cool.
I am seeing a lot of ads for it. Just saw a Red Bull truck at lunch up here in Calabasas promoting it. Pretty cool.

newman, I think Pala failed only because of the traffic situation. There was defintely a lot of people there and the track was top notch in my opinion. And I hope Elsinore does good too.

Not tryng to turn this into a shit storm thread and am sorry for Bud's loss as well.
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RaceFace 5/1/2012 2:38pm
5/1/2012 2:38pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
Rooster wrote:
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the...
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the contract was enough to justify the expense of the renovations required. If they lost the national the following year, they probably would only have broken even for the one year they had on their contract.

Ask yourself if you would outlay the cash for an event like that with everything pointing towards only managing to break even when all is said and done. If MXsports had extended the contract for say three years they could have made money the second and third year to justify the expense.

Any time you're promoting and event that tales place outdoors, you're at the mercy of mother nature. People don't buy tickets until they know the weather will be good and if it rains you're going to see a massive drop off in attendance. You have to be very conservative when you're projecting numbers because the difference between a sunny day and a rainy one could mean hundreds of thousands in lost revenue.

I think Davey lost out the most on the deal though. From what I hear, he never got a dime from the promoters of the Pala Event.
jasonv43 wrote:
And how much money did they make or will make on the USGP / Red Bull event Vs. what they spent the last three years trying...
And how much money did they make or will make on the USGP / Red Bull event Vs. what they spent the last three years trying to get people to come out and watch? I cant' imagine they have made more money then what they would have made if they just took the one year deal.
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along, Glen Helen is left out. With a bill for all the renovations in their hand. It is like when the Yankees offered Joe Torre a one-year deal, or when Suzuki offered Roger DeCoster a one year deal. They don't want to come right out and say "we really don't want you here anymore, but can't just cut ties without saving some face". So they offer these less than desirable deals. I don't think any of the other Nationals needed to renovate their facilities and I also think Glen Helen had better than most Nationals do. It's going to be sad when some of the other Nationals are pushed out in the coming years.
Mutt
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Mutt 5/1/2012 3:05pm
5/1/2012 3:05pm
Saw my first National at Glen Helen. While all of the tracks have their own unique qualities, none of them can hold a candle to Glen Helen. To me it's a National track on steroids!
jasonv43
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jasonv43 5/1/2012 3:42pm
5/1/2012 3:42pm
Rooster wrote:
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the...
The problem was MXsports would only offer a one year deal and wanted major renovations to the facilities. I don't think a single year on the contract was enough to justify the expense of the renovations required. If they lost the national the following year, they probably would only have broken even for the one year they had on their contract.

Ask yourself if you would outlay the cash for an event like that with everything pointing towards only managing to break even when all is said and done. If MXsports had extended the contract for say three years they could have made money the second and third year to justify the expense.

Any time you're promoting and event that tales place outdoors, you're at the mercy of mother nature. People don't buy tickets until they know the weather will be good and if it rains you're going to see a massive drop off in attendance. You have to be very conservative when you're projecting numbers because the difference between a sunny day and a rainy one could mean hundreds of thousands in lost revenue.

I think Davey lost out the most on the deal though. From what I hear, he never got a dime from the promoters of the Pala Event.
jasonv43 wrote:
And how much money did they make or will make on the USGP / Red Bull event Vs. what they spent the last three years trying...
And how much money did they make or will make on the USGP / Red Bull event Vs. what they spent the last three years trying to get people to come out and watch? I cant' imagine they have made more money then what they would have made if they just took the one year deal.
RaceFace wrote:
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along...
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along, Glen Helen is left out. With a bill for all the renovations in their hand. It is like when the Yankees offered Joe Torre a one-year deal, or when Suzuki offered Roger DeCoster a one year deal. They don't want to come right out and say "we really don't want you here anymore, but can't just cut ties without saving some face". So they offer these less than desirable deals. I don't think any of the other Nationals needed to renovate their facilities and I also think Glen Helen had better than most Nationals do. It's going to be sad when some of the other Nationals are pushed out in the coming years.
I just don't see how doing these other events have worked out better for them in the long run anyways. Did they really make a ton of money off of the USGP's?

I guess I just miss those huge hills, the big triple step up, and the talledega first turn.Cool
BAMX
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BAMX 5/1/2012 3:57pm
5/1/2012 3:57pm
jasonv43 wrote:
In the span of three years, Glen Helen (arguably one of the baddest tracks on the circuit) went from this: [img]http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/lucas-oil-motocross.jpg[/img] To this: [img]http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/newsandupdates/racing_news/122_1005_ryno_usgp_at_glen_helen/27753887+w620/122_1005_02_o+ryno_usgp_glen_helen+logo.jpg[/img] And now...
In the span of three years, Glen Helen (arguably one of the baddest tracks on the circuit) went from this:





To this:



And now this:

What are you even talking about? They didn't change the main track one bit. They tore down the REM track and are building the flatbiller fest over there. When it is done, they are rebuilding the REM track, buildings etc back to however REM wants them. As for then not having a national, ask Coombs he seems to want to race on parking lot tracks when they come to So Cal.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 5/1/2012 3:57pm
5/1/2012 3:57pm
RaceFace wrote:
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along...
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along, Glen Helen is left out. With a bill for all the renovations in their hand. It is like when the Yankees offered Joe Torre a one-year deal, or when Suzuki offered Roger DeCoster a one year deal. They don't want to come right out and say "we really don't want you here anymore, but can't just cut ties without saving some face". So they offer these less than desirable deals. I don't think any of the other Nationals needed to renovate their facilities and I also think Glen Helen had better than most Nationals do. It's going to be sad when some of the other Nationals are pushed out in the coming years.
Actually, the one year deal was a carrot as well as a stick. The relationship was edgy for a long time, and apparently the other side of it was that GH had not followed through on some things they had been asked/required to do in the past, and the year was a probationary line in the sand. And GH said no, which it was entitled to do.

Both sides were grown adults who couldn't come to agreement on deal terms. It's not that unusual.
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Ramrod 5/1/2012 4:00pm
5/1/2012 4:00pm
Mutt wrote:
Saw my first National at Glen Helen. While all of the tracks have their own unique qualities, none of them can hold a candle to Glen...
Saw my first National at Glen Helen. While all of the tracks have their own unique qualities, none of them can hold a candle to Glen Helen. To me it's a National track on steroids!
It IS a national track on steroids!

For sure the owner can do what he wants. Too bad about his family in that plane crash, that is terrible.

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BAMX
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BAMX 5/1/2012 4:09pm
5/1/2012 4:09pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
MT MX wrote:
The owner (Bud) has had a tough couple of years, with no regards to Glen Helen. The majority of his family was killed up here in...
The owner (Bud) has had a tough couple of years, with no regards to Glen Helen. The majority of his family was killed up here in Montana in an airplane accident about a year and a half ago.......kids, kid's spouses, and grandkids.
Let him do what he wants to do. At least he is still supporting motorcycle competitions.
Also add that his mom who lived at the track and ran Glen Helen passed last year as well. The guy is there frequently, he loves motorcycles and we are all lucky that he loves them enough to not have turned the place into track houses a few years ago when land prices were through the roof. He could have made millions probably tens of millions on a property that large in 2005.
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RaceFace 5/1/2012 4:17pm
5/1/2012 4:17pm
RaceFace wrote:
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along...
You have to look at it from all angles. A one-year deal tells you that the interest isn't there beyond that. If something better comes along, Glen Helen is left out. With a bill for all the renovations in their hand. It is like when the Yankees offered Joe Torre a one-year deal, or when Suzuki offered Roger DeCoster a one year deal. They don't want to come right out and say "we really don't want you here anymore, but can't just cut ties without saving some face". So they offer these less than desirable deals. I don't think any of the other Nationals needed to renovate their facilities and I also think Glen Helen had better than most Nationals do. It's going to be sad when some of the other Nationals are pushed out in the coming years.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Actually, the one year deal was a carrot as well as a stick. The relationship was edgy for a long time, and apparently the other side...
Actually, the one year deal was a carrot as well as a stick. The relationship was edgy for a long time, and apparently the other side of it was that GH had not followed through on some things they had been asked/required to do in the past, and the year was a probationary line in the sand. And GH said no, which it was entitled to do.

Both sides were grown adults who couldn't come to agreement on deal terms. It's not that unusual.
Not unusual at all. I was defending Glen Helen as it seemed to me that they were nicely being forced out as some others will be as the series tries to expand into regions it isn't in now.

We know a South East round is coming and they aren't adding any more rounds. I think the North East will be losing a fair amount of the races it now has in the future to spread out into other areas of the country. Southwick, Unadilla, Budds Creek, Steel City, Mt. Morris are all within 8 hours drive of where I live in New England. I would expect Mt. Morris and Steel City are fairly safe as stops in the series.
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FreshTopEnd 5/1/2012 4:27pm
5/1/2012 4:27pm
RaceFace wrote:
Not unusual at all. I was defending Glen Helen as it seemed to me that they were nicely being forced out as some others will be...
Not unusual at all. I was defending Glen Helen as it seemed to me that they were nicely being forced out as some others will be as the series tries to expand into regions it isn't in now.

We know a South East round is coming and they aren't adding any more rounds. I think the North East will be losing a fair amount of the races it now has in the future to spread out into other areas of the country. Southwick, Unadilla, Budds Creek, Steel City, Mt. Morris are all within 8 hours drive of where I live in New England. I would expect Mt. Morris and Steel City are fairly safe as stops in the series.
Actually, it's likely one of those two that will go away in favor of the southeast race.

GH was being given a chance to follow through where it apparently had not in the past, but with a short leash. True, they had no guarantees. They chose to do the GP's instead.
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dboivin 5/1/2012 5:09pm
5/1/2012 5:09pm
RaceFace wrote:
Not unusual at all. I was defending Glen Helen as it seemed to me that they were nicely being forced out as some others will be...
Not unusual at all. I was defending Glen Helen as it seemed to me that they were nicely being forced out as some others will be as the series tries to expand into regions it isn't in now.

We know a South East round is coming and they aren't adding any more rounds. I think the North East will be losing a fair amount of the races it now has in the future to spread out into other areas of the country. Southwick, Unadilla, Budds Creek, Steel City, Mt. Morris are all within 8 hours drive of where I live in New England. I would expect Mt. Morris and Steel City are fairly safe as stops in the series.
huh? steel city and mt.morris are on the chopping block if they find a southeast track. doesn't look like he found a southeast track tho.

I've been to pretty much every central to eastern national track. IMO i could see Steel City replaced. Mt. Morris is just such a cool track w/ elevation changes and such...would be a shame.
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wawazat 5/1/2012 5:13pm
5/1/2012 5:13pm
How much say does the AMA have? Thought they just sanctioned the races, the promoter decides where to race, no?
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Outsider 5/1/2012 5:18pm
5/1/2012 5:18pm
jasonv43 wrote:
In the span of three years, Glen Helen (arguably one of the baddest tracks on the circuit) went from this: [img]http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/lucas-oil-motocross.jpg[/img] To this: [img]http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/newsandupdates/racing_news/122_1005_ryno_usgp_at_glen_helen/27753887+w620/122_1005_02_o+ryno_usgp_glen_helen+logo.jpg[/img] And now...
In the span of three years, Glen Helen (arguably one of the baddest tracks on the circuit) went from this:





To this:



And now this:

You forgot to add the current national location to your collage.. Sad

No offense to the Elsinore people but it ain't no Glen Helen. I'll still go though.
JB 19
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JB 19 5/1/2012 5:21pm
5/1/2012 5:21pm
A similar thing happened to Kenworthys. From what I heard the owners were asked to change things up and modernize the track for years. Finally, in the last year they ran it backwards, but it was too little too late.

It had nothing to with the flood. That was a convenient excuse.
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jathey 5/1/2012 5:32pm
5/1/2012 5:32pm
The first time I saw Mt St Helen (the first version - when it was new), I got nervous and my palms got sweaty - and I wasn't even riding that day.

How many motocross tracks - National or otherwise - cause anxiety just by looking at them?

Glen Helen is one of a kind.
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TDeath21 5/1/2012 5:35pm
5/1/2012 5:35pm
I was really sad to see that it is no longer on the circuit. In my opinion it was one of the top 3 tracks along with Red Bud and Millville.
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gsxrcr28 5/1/2012 5:40pm
5/1/2012 5:40pm
Ramrod wrote:
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not. Maybe the owner had a hard head...
Unreal. That track looked so badass and a real test for those riders whether they liked it or not.

Maybe the owner had a hard head. If the deal that Mxsports offered is so bad, then why do the other tracks not have a problem with it?

Life goes on...
MT MX wrote:
The owner (Bud) has had a tough couple of years, with no regards to Glen Helen. The majority of his family was killed up here in...
The owner (Bud) has had a tough couple of years, with no regards to Glen Helen. The majority of his family was killed up here in Montana in an airplane accident about a year and a half ago.......kids, kid's spouses, and grandkids.
Let him do what he wants to do. At least he is still supporting motorcycle competitions.
I agree with you, but we can still miss the national there Wink

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