MX/SX starts too dangerous?

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Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 10:00am
Ok just trying to start a topic here. Not really sure how I feel about it. What I do know is that especially in SX you have 20 guys trying to cram into a little tiny corner with doubles and triples right after that. You almost always see carnage in the first turn during a sx.

With Motocross it's a little better but you still have 40 bikes at a very high speed right next to each other and it could be disaster waiting to happen if one just nudges slightly and knocks someone into somebody else.

Now-I am not saying things need to be changed. Starting gates are a core of Motocross but maybe they could have a rolling start of 5 wide in SX or 10 wide in MX based on lap times. It's always the same 15 guys up front anyways so it wouldn't really make much difference. What do you guys think? Keep the way it is or change it to try and make it a little safer?
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wpcjs
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wpcjs 7/7/2008 8:44am
7/7/2008 8:44am
Only thing I would change is to make them all left handers.
mxer146
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mxer146 7/7/2008 8:58am
7/7/2008 8:58am
A rolling start? Your an idiot. Why not just give them people an advantage they don't need.
Foster576
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Foster576 7/7/2008 9:02am
7/7/2008 9:02am
Pussify the sport more.... Way to go!
CamP
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CamP 7/7/2008 9:03am
7/7/2008 9:03am
Motocross starts are inherently dangerous. That's why they are exciting.

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knowitallnovice 7/7/2008 9:04am
7/7/2008 9:04am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:31pm
There is a reason why the first turn at a MX race is the most densely populated section of the track.......it's exciting........180 degree first turns get the field on the brakes early though.

Mikey's crash was just a freak of a crash. Cross rutting in front of 40 bikes up and over the face of a jump to end up in the landing area where no one behind could see or had a chance to move is pretty rare.

2 tight turns before the jumps or a wide open section might be better in terms of separation of the field but in reality we all want close racing........not a constant advantage for the leaders.
OW38B
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OW38B 7/7/2008 9:08am
7/7/2008 9:08am
"Dead" engine start........that will do it.
Friday
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Friday 7/7/2008 9:15am
7/7/2008 9:15am
Ban all starts from MX.Blink
Crash82
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Crash82 7/7/2008 9:19am
7/7/2008 9:19am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2008 9:22am
Just wondering why the flagger did not walk to the top of the jump or why not give the flaggers the authority to throw the red flag and stop the race? A rider is not moving and is in a landing zone, I say stand on the top of the jump with red flag. I understand the first couple of hits, but the rest could have been avoided.
Trinitite
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Trinitite 7/7/2008 9:20am
7/7/2008 9:20am
Glen Helen always looks insane to me. That has to be the highest speed start in MX.
Larry
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Larry 7/7/2008 9:26am
7/7/2008 9:26am
Have the mechanics do a push start.
TGTech
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TGTech 7/7/2008 9:27am
7/7/2008 9:27am
Crash82 wrote:
Just wondering why the flagger did not walk to the top of the jump or why not give the flaggers the authority to throw the red...
Just wondering why the flagger did not walk to the top of the jump or why not give the flaggers the authority to throw the red flag and stop the race? A rider is not moving and is in a landing zone, I say stand on the top of the jump with red flag. I understand the first couple of hits, but the rest could have been avoided.
Exactly the major problem. Flaggers need to be responsible for protecting riders who go down, and I've seen many, many times, where the flagger just doesn't get it. When Austin went down in Colorado, the flagger just stood there waving the flag, instead of moving out to be in front of the bike.

Dane
doublezero
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doublezero 7/7/2008 9:27am
7/7/2008 9:27am
Give me a break... Nature of the sport, either you choose to race or not...
doublezero
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doublezero 7/7/2008 9:27am
7/7/2008 9:27am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2008 9:29am
delete this hit twice by accident...
flarider
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flarider 7/7/2008 9:32am
7/7/2008 9:32am
I thought you abandoned us, Shelley!
race
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race 7/7/2008 9:41am
7/7/2008 9:41am
I've always wondered why the start gates have to be so close together. I always hated to be stuck out in the middle bar to bar with some doof that goes sideways off the start. Happened more than a few times. Any chance I got, I would go for one side or another of the dog house, even if it meant giving up a little on the good line to the first turn. A little more spacing of the gates might help a little bit. Maybe help sort them out slightly earlier?

I haven't raced at Glen Helen in years but I know I'd be a little leery of hitting that first turn tapped out in 5th. Anyone done a full 40 rider gate at GH since they put up Talladega? I imagine you want to stay low on the turn ... or maybe try to rail the top? I know from riding practice there the middle can get some pretty good bumps and dips.

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Tiki 7/7/2008 9:46am
7/7/2008 9:46am
The turn at Glen Helen is more fun then should be allowed. Even in top gear going into it, your tendency may be to let off, just keep it pinned and still you will feel confident. The chance for a crash is a lot less in my thoughts simply because all the forward movement. Not saying it cant happen. Get 40 people together something is bound to happen. It is one of my favorite starts I have ever gotten to do.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 7/7/2008 9:48am
7/7/2008 9:48am
If I was going to change anything, I'd make all the gates wider and put them in two rows. Top 20 guys get on the first row and the bottom 20 get on on the second. Europe used to only have 30 guys in a moto - I don't know if they're still doing that - but I don't think you'd want to do that.
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level 7/7/2008 10:01am
7/7/2008 10:01am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2008 10:02am
Never really though about making the starting gate for each rider wider. Seems like a good idea, and knock it down to 30 riders instead of 40. Get rid of some of the lappers and you don't get any points for anything over 20th place anyways.

Plus it would be cool if they had a race the same day for the next 30 qualifying riders-such as 31st-60th. Like another series.

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Tiki
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Tiki 7/7/2008 10:06am
7/7/2008 10:06am
Are you talking in the pro class or racing overall? From my opinion in both cases its not necessary. Either you are the windshield or you are the bug. Its up to you to be one or the other or just watch from the fences.

Getting to race a full 40 gate and being one of the first to the first turn to look back at that train of riders is a thrill. Might as well mow down the jumps, the turns and roll out the braking bumps.
Matt Fisher 7/7/2008 10:13am
7/7/2008 10:13am
Making the flaggers responsible for the riders opens up a whole new can of worms.

I do feel that the flaggers should have the ability to make more judgement calls, and to make the penalties for not following those calls rather serious.
doublezero
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doublezero 7/7/2008 10:38am
7/7/2008 10:38am
flarider wrote:
I thought you abandoned us, Shelley!
nope, never.. just been real busy....
doublezero
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doublezero 7/7/2008 10:42am
7/7/2008 10:42am
TGTech wrote:
Exactly the major problem. Flaggers need to be responsible for protecting riders who go down, and I've seen many, many times, where the flagger just doesn't...
Exactly the major problem. Flaggers need to be responsible for protecting riders who go down, and I've seen many, many times, where the flagger just doesn't get it. When Austin went down in Colorado, the flagger just stood there waving the flag, instead of moving out to be in front of the bike.

Dane
Unfortunately, it is a tough call, but this is what happens sometimes when a flagger puts himself in front of a downed rider, when there are other bikes coming at you...
flarider
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flarider 7/7/2008 10:43am
7/7/2008 10:43am
and then when a rider crashes from hitting a flagger who stepped onto the track, that opens a whole 'nother bag o shit and arguing
babba boey
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babba boey 7/7/2008 11:13am
7/7/2008 11:13am
I do not think the flagger could have helped Mike. The field was too close together and too fast in that section to do anything. There was no excuse for the flagger not to get on the track when Austin went down in Colorado.
teggers
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teggers 7/7/2008 12:19pm
7/7/2008 12:19pm
I've done 40 riders at Glen Helen +40 pro into Talledaga....scared the shit outa me. I backed off and came out about 12th. My insurance says I can't go over 80 mph while racing.
jay_547
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jay_547 7/7/2008 12:33pm
7/7/2008 12:33pm
i vote not too dangerous.
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mx836 7/7/2008 12:40pm
7/7/2008 12:40pm
Lining up next to 39 other bikes and going third gear wide open into the first turn on a 450 is the scariest thing I think I have ever willingly gone through and I'm terrified every time I do it, but this is motocross and I wouldn't have it any other way. I've crashed right after the start like that before and been ran over by the whole field too. It sucks, but he will be back. That was just a freak thing. Don't see it too often and I think there are lots of other safety issues that need to be adressed before changing the way we start races.
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`ol Ger 7/7/2008 12:50pm
7/7/2008 12:50pm
The starts are good just the way they are.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 7/7/2008 1:09pm
7/7/2008 1:09pm
babba boey wrote:
I do not think the flagger could have helped Mike. The field was too close together and too fast in that section to do anything. There...
I do not think the flagger could have helped Mike. The field was too close together and too fast in that section to do anything. There was no excuse for the flagger not to get on the track when Austin went down in Colorado.
A flagger can wave his flag like crazy, but he couldn't physically protect Mike. And the first few guys hit him so fast I doubt a flagger could have reacted. The whole pack when by in about 10 seconds or so. That's a long time when you're down on the track, but it's not much time in human terms.

When a rider goes down on the first lap on the back side of a jump, he's just a like a passenger in a plane crash. He's just hoping for the best.
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Stephon 7/7/2008 2:09pm
7/7/2008 2:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:32pm
I've only been to three national tracks - Budd's, Hangtown & Glen Helen. From my inexperienced POV Glen Helen looks to be the safest because of the long stright which kinds of sorts out the faster bikes and bigger balls. It's also wide enough to give the riders a bit of room to manuever.

I'd hate to see the starts change too much, but maybe a very specific start strategy for the flaggers over those early blind jumps when so many riders are bunched together. I also like the caution/warning lights on some of the jumps.

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