Cairoli Picks the......

DL
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DL
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 8:07pm
350, I mean 380, no its a 390 or a 400........ as reported by MX Bars

sull'ultimo motosprint c'è un servizio sulla stagione 2012...

cairoli dice che le ha provate entrambe sia la 350 e la 450...la 450 gli piace molto...ma dice che il 350 è ulteriormente migliorato e ci si trova meglio...perciò ha deciso di usarla anche per il 2012
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MotoChief
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MotoChief 12/30/2011 8:36pm
12/30/2011 8:36pm
dv12.com
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dv12.com 12/30/2011 8:56pm
12/30/2011 8:56pm
From Google translator:

cairoli says that he has tried both the 350 and 450 ... the 450 really like him ... but he says the 350 is further improved and is better ... so we decided to use even for 2012
Hando
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Hando 12/30/2011 9:20pm
12/30/2011 9:20pm
i wonder if that bike is really just a 400
VRR7
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VRR7 12/30/2011 11:14pm
12/30/2011 11:14pm
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to weight ratio game is a very NB factor in Motorcycle racing for all other teams and manufacturers and all other motorcycle disciplines as well - How can it NOT be the case for the KTM350? Physical laws still apply ! So how else does one market that ?

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VRR7
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VRR7 12/30/2011 11:20pm
12/30/2011 11:20pm
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
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bvm111 12/30/2011 11:22pm
12/30/2011 11:22pm
VRR7 wrote:
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
you said it....Wink
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Flatliner 12/30/2011 11:48pm
12/30/2011 11:48pm
Alessi is the worst possible choice to ride the 350. He likes torque. Maybe tony rides it like a 250f, if he does that, the bike works just fine.
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Hanaa80 12/31/2011 1:00am
12/31/2011 1:00am
VRR7 wrote:
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
Apparently it is impossible to talk about Cairoli without starting an AMA vs. GP fight.
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jeffro503 12/31/2011 1:03am
12/31/2011 1:03am
VRR7 wrote:
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to...
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to weight ratio game is a very NB factor in Motorcycle racing for all other teams and manufacturers and all other motorcycle disciplines as well - How can it NOT be the case for the KTM350? Physical laws still apply ! So how else does one market that ?
Plain and simple.....because those fucking Euro's are crazy!
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Dobermann 12/31/2011 1:38am
12/31/2011 1:38am
VRR7 wrote:
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
the rider AMA are very strong, but not the best....only RC was the best in the world!!! :-)

The differences are the rules, in EUR engine can be changed, is possible to use from 350 to 450 max...

In AMA engine can be used standard 450 and develop it...

Right or not?


And......sorry for my english...:-)
TripleDigit 12/31/2011 1:52am
12/31/2011 1:52am
Flatliner wrote:
Alessi is the worst possible choice to ride the 350. He likes torque. Maybe tony rides it like a 250f, if he does that, the bike...
Alessi is the worst possible choice to ride the 350. He likes torque. Maybe tony rides it like a 250f, if he does that, the bike works just fine.
That's what he does,whatever the case he hasn't gone with the 450 again and he has his toughest year yet competition wise it'll be interesting to see how he goes against the big factory 450s in the GPs,and I hope everyone's fit for Lommel,Smile
2strokerider 12/31/2011 2:10am
12/31/2011 2:10am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2011 2:23am
it cant be true! all the vital keyboard warriors say the 350 sucks and they know more than cairoli about mx right?!

wonder how many of the critics have actually ridden a 350?!

lets not forget who actually developed the bike- stefan everts! what the hell does he know about motocross?!
Ghost of Jabroni 12/31/2011 2:50am
12/31/2011 2:50am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2011 2:51am
Cairoli's bike was a 390

These days its a 410


Not that Cairoli's preference in displacement should have any bearing on whether the bike is good or not. Its a great bike for the average consumer.
VRR7
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VRR7 12/31/2011 2:53am
12/31/2011 2:53am
The 2012 KTM 350SXF hit MXA’s scales at 236 pounds. It is, however, 5 pounds heavier than a 2012 Honda CRF450 and at least 10 pounds heavier than it needs to be to make the most of the power-to-weight ratio.

So if power to weight is not the advantage ? The Advantage marketed is " “... are riders who think that 450cc four-strokes are too powerful ” - Which must be World MX1 Riders - Cos AMA Pro's do not have that problem - Or are the "Works" KTM350 Power to weight is adjusted to be an advantage ? or Both !

What else makes Logical sense ?
Ghost of Jabroni 12/31/2011 2:58am
12/31/2011 2:58am
VRR7, the worx KTM 350's are very light and they have a bump in displacement. Thus a strong power to weight ratio.


Im not really sure why it bothers so many people that his bike is not a production 350. Its the GP's for christ sake. I thought we were all supposed to marvel at the worx bikes for their uniqueness.
rostocker
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rostocker 12/31/2011 3:24am
12/31/2011 3:24am
C´mon!
For the US guys, didn't RV2 win with a 250 at mxdn in 2007 or whenever it was, over all of the 450s (and RC)?
And I guess well see it happening again in 2012 mxdn...
Why couldn't somebody that can in fact match Villo on a 250 (he beat him in the 2nd heat at mxdn 2006 if you doubt) ride a 350 with a bunch of 450s? It got the, I don't know speed (?) to take a holeshot, and its not SX so he doesn't need to protect the inside line.
It needs to be ridden as a 250 and there hasn't been anybody in US that has ridden it that way.

This is the the right answer, copy paste (Ctrl C) and put in all 450 vs. 350 threads =)

Oh! It was a mistake to use the 350 in mxdn 2010, he was clearly under power on high altitude. Over and out, Peace and so on.
VRR7
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VRR7 12/31/2011 3:45am
12/31/2011 3:45am
( Ctrl C) So the Real Answer is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motocross_des_Nations -

Cos It is the Rider not the Bike !

USA rider are better than Euro Riders !

(CtrL -C) Euro choose 350 - USA choose 450 - What Bike Would Carmichael have Designed ?

MXA - Says ..." The 450SXF makes 10 more horses than the 350 through the meat of the powerband—and even at peak, the 450SXF is still pumping out 5 more ponies than the 350SXF. Assuming that you can handle that extra power, there is no way that “you on a 350SXF” will ever beat “you on a 450SXF.”

The trick is in getting the most out of the 450SXF. It’s not as easy as it sounds to tame a 54-horsepower machine. Big power often results in riders using less of it. In this case, it is much easier to get the most out of the 48.69-horsepower 350SXF. The formula is simple. If you race the 450SXF at full-tilt, it can’t be caught by the 350SXF; however, if you ride the 450SXF at 80 percent, then you’d be better off on the 350SXF. "

Or Else it must all be Marketing Smoke and Mirrors
Ghost of Jabroni 12/31/2011 4:36am
12/31/2011 4:36am
Cairoli never even ran a full 450cc's when he was on his Yamaha.

Again, I dont see the big deal. So what if he doesnt like the 450. Props to him for figuring out the displacement that works best for him.

And it proves nothing with regards to the whole USA vs Europe thing. Cairoli is legit. And to say otherwise is foolish.

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machine
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machine 12/31/2011 5:11am
12/31/2011 5:11am
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Cairoli's bike was a 390 These days its a 410 Not that Cairoli's preference in displacement should have any bearing on whether the bike is good...
Cairoli's bike was a 390

These days its a 410


Not that Cairoli's preference in displacement should have any bearing on whether the bike is good or not. Its a great bike for the average consumer.
Is this speculation, or do you know for sure? If you know for sure, where did you get your info?
Ghost of Jabroni 12/31/2011 5:16am
12/31/2011 5:16am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2011 5:28am
Honestly, that is a question only you can answer. This is a forum board. I am just some random jabroni as far as you're concerned.

But just so you know, I'd post it as speculation if it was.

And if I posted where I got my info, I wouldn't get it anymore now would I?
jamma10
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jamma10 12/31/2011 5:21am
12/31/2011 5:21am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2011 5:25am
VRR7 wrote:
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
bvm111 wrote:
you said it....Wink
Roczen 250 > Dungey 450
Herlings 350 > Villopoto 450

Weird Smile

There are bound to be many factors that help influence Cairoli's decision - one of those is probably a big monetary incentive - but he manages to be competitive on it anyway. I don't know why its such a big issue for Americans.

I do however, think the bike needs to be ridden by a guy coming off a 250. Also that wide, fast and loamy AMA tracks probably do require more HP than rutty, tight and greasy GP tracks which are now increasingly cluttered with jumps.
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hardeight 12/31/2011 5:24am
12/31/2011 5:24am
i might be wrong, but from what ive read, the bike dungey is riding is a one of, that they are trying to get enough made for the homolugation rule.
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bents 12/31/2011 5:46am
12/31/2011 5:46am
Regardless of his choice, Tony is still a bad motherfucker on a bike and he rides that 350 pinned. Whatever floats his boat. He has ridden both and until someone beats him, he seems to have made the right decision for him.
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Faceaz 12/31/2011 7:46am
12/31/2011 7:46am
VRR7 wrote:
( Ctrl C) So the Real Answer is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motocross_des_Nations - Cos It is the Rider not the Bike ! USA rider are better than Euro Riders...
( Ctrl C) So the Real Answer is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motocross_des_Nations -

Cos It is the Rider not the Bike !

USA rider are better than Euro Riders !

(CtrL -C) Euro choose 350 - USA choose 450 - What Bike Would Carmichael have Designed ?

MXA - Says ..." The 450SXF makes 10 more horses than the 350 through the meat of the powerband—and even at peak, the 450SXF is still pumping out 5 more ponies than the 350SXF. Assuming that you can handle that extra power, there is no way that “you on a 350SXF” will ever beat “you on a 450SXF.”

The trick is in getting the most out of the 450SXF. It’s not as easy as it sounds to tame a 54-horsepower machine. Big power often results in riders using less of it. In this case, it is much easier to get the most out of the 48.69-horsepower 350SXF. The formula is simple. If you race the 450SXF at full-tilt, it can’t be caught by the 350SXF; however, if you ride the 450SXF at 80 percent, then you’d be better off on the 350SXF. "

Or Else it must all be Marketing Smoke and Mirrors
Is that Crank or Rear Wheel HP?

Hopefully you realize those numbers are almost meaningless without that answer.
mmcmx
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mmcmx 12/31/2011 8:02am
12/31/2011 8:02am
Diferen tracks, here is not nearly as WFO as nats tracks are.
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orangecrush 12/31/2011 10:00am
12/31/2011 10:00am
YAWN. Does anyone care anymore about the 350 experiment. I thought that topic is over now?
mx 219
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mx 219 12/31/2011 10:31am
12/31/2011 10:31am
VRR7 wrote:
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to...
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to weight ratio game is a very NB factor in Motorcycle racing for all other teams and manufacturers and all other motorcycle disciplines as well - How can it NOT be the case for the KTM350? Physical laws still apply ! So how else does one market that ?
I see the idea behind it, if you can get a rider that rides a 250f VERY WELL then they might be able to use the 350 to win, not sure it is an advantage, but I can see it. As the one guy said, it is about the rider not the bike (Lance Armstrong also). I think if Stewart or Villopoto were on a 350 they could at least win a moto once during the year. Heck, Alessi did at Hangtown 2010, before his confidence went south and he thought it was junk. Mental toughness has a lot to do with this sport.

Also jamma, you have to look at the situation. Sure Roczen beat Dungey and Herlings beat Villo, but Roczen also beat the rest of the field except Chad Reed. At the end of the year you could say Reed had nothing for Dungey, but a mudder made it interesting didnt it? As for Herlings, Villo came from a ways back and I was surprised he even caught Herlings to be honest. Where was Cairoli the Great in all of this?? exactly...
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jamma10 12/31/2011 10:51am
12/31/2011 10:51am
mx 219 wrote:
I see the idea behind it, if you can get a rider that rides a 250f VERY WELL then they might be able to use the...
I see the idea behind it, if you can get a rider that rides a 250f VERY WELL then they might be able to use the 350 to win, not sure it is an advantage, but I can see it. As the one guy said, it is about the rider not the bike (Lance Armstrong also). I think if Stewart or Villopoto were on a 350 they could at least win a moto once during the year. Heck, Alessi did at Hangtown 2010, before his confidence went south and he thought it was junk. Mental toughness has a lot to do with this sport.

Also jamma, you have to look at the situation. Sure Roczen beat Dungey and Herlings beat Villo, but Roczen also beat the rest of the field except Chad Reed. At the end of the year you could say Reed had nothing for Dungey, but a mudder made it interesting didnt it? As for Herlings, Villo came from a ways back and I was surprised he even caught Herlings to be honest. Where was Cairoli the Great in all of this?? exactly...
Cairoli crashing in the first corner of the first race has no bearing whatsoever on the fact a 350 still finished 2nd and ahead of the AMA riders in that race.

I was simply countering VRR7's comment about the weaker opposition in Europe and it was kind of said in jest to be honest. I know what went down at the MXdN.
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bvm111 12/31/2011 10:59am
12/31/2011 10:59am
VRR7 wrote:
..Or World MX riders must really be weak compared to AMA MX riders ... One or the other ?
bvm111 wrote:
you said it....Wink
jamma10 wrote:
Roczen 250 > Dungey 450 Herlings 350 > Villopoto 450 Weird :) There are bound to be many factors that help influence Cairoli's decision - one...
Roczen 250 > Dungey 450
Herlings 350 > Villopoto 450

Weird Smile

There are bound to be many factors that help influence Cairoli's decision - one of those is probably a big monetary incentive - but he manages to be competitive on it anyway. I don't know why its such a big issue for Americans.

I do however, think the bike needs to be ridden by a guy coming off a 250. Also that wide, fast and loamy AMA tracks probably do require more HP than rutty, tight and greasy GP tracks which are now increasingly cluttered with jumps.
I think both VRR7 and I were laying the sarcasm on with our posts.... I don’t have any issues with the 350 or the fact that AC is fast on it. I think the only thing that seems troubling about the original statements regarding his choice is that they (KTM) are still portraying the bike as a true 350cc machine and that AC thinks it is superior to the 450... when it is probably in the 380 to 400 cc range on any given race day!

I think we can ALL agree that in the end it doesn’t really matter, AC probably could win a MX1 or 450 National on a 250 if he really wanted to... right along with all the top riders worldwide!
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PressPassP 12/31/2011 11:12am
12/31/2011 11:12am
VRR7 wrote:
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to...
Ask Andrew Short or Mike Alessi - or why does Ryan Dungey not choose too ride one if it is "So Improved" ? The power to weight ratio game is a very NB factor in Motorcycle racing for all other teams and manufacturers and all other motorcycle disciplines as well - How can it NOT be the case for the KTM350? Physical laws still apply ! So how else does one market that ?
mx 219 wrote:
I see the idea behind it, if you can get a rider that rides a 250f VERY WELL then they might be able to use the...
I see the idea behind it, if you can get a rider that rides a 250f VERY WELL then they might be able to use the 350 to win, not sure it is an advantage, but I can see it. As the one guy said, it is about the rider not the bike (Lance Armstrong also). I think if Stewart or Villopoto were on a 350 they could at least win a moto once during the year. Heck, Alessi did at Hangtown 2010, before his confidence went south and he thought it was junk. Mental toughness has a lot to do with this sport.

Also jamma, you have to look at the situation. Sure Roczen beat Dungey and Herlings beat Villo, but Roczen also beat the rest of the field except Chad Reed. At the end of the year you could say Reed had nothing for Dungey, but a mudder made it interesting didnt it? As for Herlings, Villo came from a ways back and I was surprised he even caught Herlings to be honest. Where was Cairoli the Great in all of this?? exactly...
Pretty true,I'd go with a lot of that,although Cairoli shouldn't come into it,the guy was on the floor and wasn't a factor,I accept that RV came from behind but Roczen proved that a smaller bike can beat the 450,that was a way more straight up race,the only heads up race AC had that weekend was against Dungey,it was dry and there was nothing in it.You are 100% right about a good 250f rider using it very well,look at RV's legendary ride(and Alessi),AC is vey small and has a pretty unique style,it works for him.At the end of the day a Factory 450 is a beast and can't be used to it's full potential everywhere (probably anywhere?) AC's 350 is surely more powerful than a 250 and probably as light,and has diferrent inertia factors,particularly engine braking,he hasn't gone for the 450 and the guy is a class act,I'd never doubt his decision,I just love to watch him and hope he stays fit! Smile

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