Pro-Practicers Vs. Motocross RACERS

bigborefan
Posts
1472
Joined
3/8/2008
Location
Urbana, IL US
12/10/2011 7:15pm
Like a lot of you, I got tired of being at the MX track for 8 to 10 hours for 12 laps, I tried a GNCC type event in the early 90s. I loved that. Show up at 10:30 or 11:00, go to the line at noon, race 2 hours, go home good and tired.

I also remember back in OK, early 8os, one track had 20 minute motos on Saturdays, limited classes I think, He didn't get huge turnouts but I liked it. I understand the scene now is mostly practice days, not a lot race days in OK anyways?

Last time I raced MX was 94, Lake Whitney TX, If I could ride tracks like that all the time I would be more interested in riding MX.
Outsider
Posts
10628
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
12/10/2011 7:18pm
Hando wrote:
The problem with MX racing is that if you want to actually ride on race day you need to sign up for 3 classes .... Sorry...
The problem with MX racing is that if you want to actually ride on race day you need to sign up for 3 classes ....

Sorry, I'd rather spend $40 to ride practice all day and wear myself out and go home knowing i got my moneys worth.

when i used to race i'd be more tired from the drive home than the actual riding part.
Xracer wrote:
Bingo. On race days my hour meter would hit 40 minutes. 3-hour drive each way, $40 in gate and entry fees, $120 in gas, and 8...
Bingo. On race days my hour meter would hit 40 minutes. 3-hour drive each way, $40 in gate and entry fees, $120 in gas, and 8 or 9 hours in a lawn chair in 92-degree heat to watch what seems like 30 different classes, stressing out that you're not hearing your gate call over sub-par PA system. Once I got into 30+ I was finding that I wasn't "Peaking" and feeling really comfortable until about halfway through the 2nd moto, so I'd get 5 or 7 minutes of "good" riding in. It just wasn't worth it anymore. But I still love to ride on tracks, so I've become a practice-day hero.
Yup, make the motos longer, and the morning practice longer, (like REM) and it's a good day. Otherwise, it's a lot of expensive sitting around!
Rob_Miller
Posts
149
Joined
7/4/2011
Location
Sayre, PA US
12/10/2011 7:21pm
There are quite a few reasons why I prefer practice days over racing. Number one being that I ride MUCH better when I'm just riding. When I'm racing, its hard to not ride over my ability. I do love the competition, but wanting to win makes me ride out of my comfort/skill level. Number two, the cost for racing is crazy for the amount of riding you get to do. At a practice track I ride as long as I want, rest when I want. Number three, I just have more fun practicing. Plain and simple. I can relax. Try a section of yhe track over and over if I want to. And if you want to race on a practice day just find someone there who seems to be riding around the same pace as you and see if they want to dice it up a little. I usually try to find someone I think is faster than me bc if I lose.. well, I already knew he was faster and its not a real race setting so theres no huge pressure. And if i win, awesome, I surprised myself. And I never mind being behind someone faster than me. Then I can learn something. Dif lines or even sometimes a little body language in dif sections. At a practice track everyone is more laid back and its just a much better atmosphere. I do run a few races a year, just for shits and giggles. And I do enjoy it. But until someone is paying me to do it full time, I won't be racing a lot. And being that I'm 25 and I believe at the peak of my riding ability... Believe me, noone will ever pay me to race.. I wouldn't even pay myself! Haha.
TeamGreen
Posts
37009
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
12/10/2011 7:24pm
When & "If" you get your Pro-Card that's the time at which you transition from Pro-Practicer to Pro-Racer.

I'm jus' sayin'...

The Shop

MXEditor
Posts
695
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Danbury, CT US
12/10/2011 7:57pm
I like OP's for the sheer amount of seat time you get. Also people are a lot less stressed so it's good times meeting new folks and all that.

But hard to give up that feeling of the start gate dropping and rolling on the throttle...so gotta keep racing too.
nb11
Posts
107
Joined
12/5/2011
Location
Marietta, GA US
12/10/2011 8:04pm
I haven't been able to do a lot of racing, but where I've raced it was expensive and a ton of waiting around. I would tire myself out worrying about when it was my turn to go to the gate.

I think it would be best to do small bikes and big bikes on different days. I know the kids are the future of the sport, but I don't think its necessary to let kids on 50's do the same number of laps on the same length track as the big bikes, which is how it went where I used to go. I think one weekend should be Saturday big bikes and Sunday small bikes, then next weekend Saturday small bikes and Sunday big bikes. That way, everybody can get more time to practice and won't have to wait around as much. Also, they could cut the cost a little by not offering as many trophies. Maybe give the kids trophies, but I personally don't care if I go home with a plastic trophy or not. Also, I'd be fine if they didn't use the fuel to groom the track as much. It would save the owner/operator money, and make me a better rider.
12/10/2011 8:10pm
Consolidate classes and do 15+1 and I will be willing to pay $40 to race. $40 for two 4-5 lap motos and spending the rest of the day sitting on my ass? No thanks. I'm sure half the reason tracks don't want to consolidate is because less classes = potentially less money to get from people riding multiple classes,
Motodave15
Posts
4252
Joined
8/7/2010
Location
Temple City, CA US
12/10/2011 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2011 9:20pm
Im going to say three things about this....

1. Milestone used to run faux 3-lap races monday night on its intermediate track when it had one (where the beginner/quad track is now)... i think in 07 or 08... i can say i finished 3-place after leading for 2-laps..and fading like alessi lol. It was alot of fun to say the least.

2. Another reason people dont want to race..is because there on the main-track's.... ive asked a few people and they said they would rather race a vet track, because on a vet track your challenged slightly and you can battle without the do or die type jumps. To race on a main-track that you know your not going to jump the main doubles is sketchy and the fact you have to roll them, doesn't really help the racing lol

3. One of my buddies does SRA racing now, because hed rather be on his bike for 2-hrs doing a grand prix instead of waiting around all day to do a 5-lap moto.

I say all tracks should allocate like 2 hrs on a sat on a vet track for 3-lap faux races.. with... big bike beginner classes, since that will be the biggest one/ novice/ intermediate/...(no pro class or b or c classes
12/10/2011 8:28pm
This is the reason I started racing hare scrambles instead of motocross. I wanted more "race" time. Minimum for a hare scramble is 2hrs. I usually put 3+hrs on my bike on a weekend with the practice lap and race time.
herbs906
Posts
184
Joined
3/11/2009
Location
MN US
12/10/2011 8:54pm
You have besmirched your good name with this post. You are the most foul creature I have ever set eyes on. Now, my local track has...
You have besmirched your good name with this post. You are the most foul creature I have ever set eyes on.

Now, my local track has done something similar to your idea. On practice days they will occasionally run an "outlaw" race. They run a "C" along with a combined "B&A" class including any full sized bike.

They let you enter for free, and several practice only guys get their chance to be in a race. I like it in that it gives me a free race to enter. I also like it because racing noobs can get their feet wet without any extra cost and without much pressure.

Please do not post again, my eyes can only handle so much vacuous dribble. Good day.
dude, you dont have a local track. which track are you talking about eh? Brookston?
12/10/2011 9:17pm
You have besmirched your good name with this post. You are the most foul creature I have ever set eyes on. Now, my local track has...
You have besmirched your good name with this post. You are the most foul creature I have ever set eyes on.

Now, my local track has done something similar to your idea. On practice days they will occasionally run an "outlaw" race. They run a "C" along with a combined "B&A" class including any full sized bike.

They let you enter for free, and several practice only guys get their chance to be in a race. I like it in that it gives me a free race to enter. I also like it because racing noobs can get their feet wet without any extra cost and without much pressure.

Please do not post again, my eyes can only handle so much vacuous dribble. Good day.
herbs906 wrote:
dude, you dont have a local track. which track are you talking about eh? Brookston?
Heh, yeah that's as local as it gets up here. It's like an hour away but I still call it local.
JB 19
Posts
4340
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH US
12/10/2011 9:20pm
flarider wrote:
When I worked at a track, the pro-practicers actually became a problem, as we'd get maybe 10% of the practice attendance on race day. We tried...
When I worked at a track, the pro-practicers actually became a problem, as we'd get maybe 10% of the practice attendance on race day. We tried everything to get more turn out. We knew the riders were there, we just couldn't get them to race.

We just started asking and the biggest issue is people just don't want the pressure of racing.
Wasn't about money, track time, or anything more than some people just don't want or like to deal with the pressures of racing.
They ride to relax, they don't want to be put in a pressure cooker to relax
Interestingly, that's one of the most accurate observations I've heard. I never like to race unless I have put in the work to be close to my best. I feel a certain amount of pressure that I always put on myself when I race but, I can just show up and ride and do my own thing on a practice day.

The problem with only practicing is there is always that feeling of competition and gratification that you can't get from practicing.
braaap
Posts
501
Joined
1/5/2007
Location
TX US
12/10/2011 9:25pm
Huckster wrote:
I am racing less and less and find myself going to OP's more. I love racing. I love the competition and the feeling you get when...
I am racing less and less and find myself going to OP's more. I love racing. I love the competition and the feeling you get when you are competing. However, it is very hard to spend 12+ hrs on a Sunday to ride maybe 20 lap(2 classes/practice) when I can go to an OP and get 20 laps in about 1.5hr. Its not the same but the long days at the races kill me.
My sentiments exactly; night races that end at 0200, hours of nothing between motos, etc.

I dig the practice day/short race idea!
Hando
Posts
1571
Joined
11/13/2011
Location
US
12/10/2011 9:35pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2011 9:41pm
never tried a harescramble but i can see why people like them.. you get to ride!

Would love to have Jody from MXA chime in on this topic...he's always bashing us pro practicers!!
StevieTimes
Posts
384
Joined
12/27/2010
Location
Saint Bonifacius, MN US
12/10/2011 9:58pm
Jamey1e wrote:
The problem with racing for me is that you have to get up at 5 am to be at the track by 8 for sign up...
The problem with racing for me is that you have to get up at 5 am to be at the track by 8 for sign up. Then you get two practices, one's 5 laps the other is 3 laps followed by a few hours of waiting for your 1st moto. By the time your second moto is over and your finally done for the day you've wasted 7 or 8 hours and ridden a total of 18 laps. All this when I can sleep late arrive at the track around noon pay 20 bucks and ride all I want at my on pace.
/\/\/\ this

getting up at 5 am on a Sunday sucks big time. I'm not hardly rested at all. For an OP, I can sleep in, still make it "on time".

Waking up ultra-early definitely plays into my "what should I do this Sunday" decision.
Gabriel J
Posts
367
Joined
11/15/2011
Location
MA US
12/10/2011 10:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2011 10:10pm
Consolidate classes and do 15+1 and I will be willing to pay $40 to race. $40 for two 4-5 lap motos and spending the rest of...
Consolidate classes and do 15+1 and I will be willing to pay $40 to race. $40 for two 4-5 lap motos and spending the rest of the day sitting on my ass? No thanks. I'm sure half the reason tracks don't want to consolidate is because less classes = potentially less money to get from people riding multiple classes,
Same feeling here. I don't go to local races to spectate...I go to participate. If I want to sit around all day and watch people ride, I'm going to pay to see the pros. Unfortunately to get out and get a solid hour or two in a day you have to pay for at least 2 or 3 classes..That means a $100 or more entry fee on raceday before the other costs..Plus a damn gate fee even if you are racing...Not cheap. Great for the track, not so much for the riders.

I've followed the sport from a young age, but started riding and racing at an "advanced" moto age (late 20's, now my early 30's). I remember when there was a 25+ class and that was it for our local Vet classes..Now we have 30, 35, 40+..Some places have 50+....Too many damn classes! With that the motos get shorter and shorter...How about just 30+ A/B/C, take away all the extra fluff and you can run some 20min or 30min motos. If we are going to "race", why don't we do something more like what the pros are doing...They don't do "3 laps +1".....I like the thought of going out and pounding out two hard-fought motos and being exhausted at the end of the day. I don't care if that means I'm in last place when it's over, I just want to be out there riding the bike.
jeffro503
Posts
27632
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
12/10/2011 10:17pm
Rup :

I think people go in phases. I myself raced on and off for 25+ years , and then took a 6 year break ( just came back last summer ) Just from personal experience , I haven't raced since I came back , and for a few of my own reason. it goes like this.....

1.) I get way more riding in at a practice day.

2.) I can ride my own pace and have fun , pick certain sections of the track to master.

3.) I'm not being pressured into trying to beat everyone else out there.

4.) Money vs ride time.....for me , practice days win hands down!

5.) Probably lack of confidence.

On reason #5 is , is I know I'm not as fast as i used to be ( I'm trying ) and after taking 6 years off , I've lost some mojo I used to have. I DO plan on racing a few times this next year , but won't unless I feel 100% confident I can ride my pace at 100% for the full 6 , 7 or 8 laps. Right now....at full pace , maybe 2 if I'm lucky.

Also....on practice days , i get to RIDE with my slower and faster friends. On some tracks , even their kids. For me , the practice days are where it's at for me. Right now anyways.
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
13774
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
12/10/2011 10:32pm
Knowing our customers, they'd be pissed having to wait for the races to be over before they could ride again.

The folks who come to practice days either want to pound laps and burn gas for training, or the guy who just wants to play ride with his kids. The latter has no desire to race, and they expect to be able to ride all day for thier 20/bike.
bryan
Posts
190
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Temecula, CA US
12/10/2011 10:39pm
I don't really understand the problem. I don't think pro practicers' growing numbers come at the expense of the racers' numbers, but maybe I'm missing something.

I've never raced and don't plan to. But, I WOULD pay a little extra at the gate to get a transponder to record my lap times, maybe get a print out, see how you compare, etc... Indoor karting style. No idea if that's practical or not, but it would be sweet!
EvanR127
Posts
919
Joined
1/22/2011
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
12/10/2011 10:40pm
My three reasons I don't race more is:

Race practice is way to short to get use to a new track.

I have terrible fitness, so the last couple of laps of the race is not fun for me.

Race organization skills are terrible
Adam43
Posts
3309
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
12/10/2011 11:05pm
I think it`s hilarious when people say they don`t race because it`s not enough riding time, when they can barely put two laps together at a practice.

Rup`s idea is a good one. I bet there would be a lot of takers for a short, free, good-times moto on a practice day.
jeffro503
Posts
27632
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
12/10/2011 11:19pm
Adam43 wrote:
I think it`s hilarious when people say they don`t race because it`s not enough riding time, when they can barely put two laps together at a...
I think it`s hilarious when people say they don`t race because it`s not enough riding time, when they can barely put two laps together at a practice.

Rup`s idea is a good one. I bet there would be a lot of takers for a short, free, good-times moto on a practice day.
Adam.....I'm not sure if that pop shot was thrown my way , but if it was , let me explain. Just because I can't go full out for more than 2 laps , doesn't mean I don't actually stay out there for anything less than 20-30 mins at a time on good weather days. Last week I burned a good 3-1/2 - 4 gallons through my bike on Saturday.......so yeah , i got plenty of riding in. Way more than if I would have raced.

With practice days , I can go as fast as I can for as long as I can , then knock it down to about 75% , and go back and forth like that for a good 20+ min easily. I can't go full out for very long , but my fitness is getting better.

So why the pop shot? Actually i think you took another one at me just the other day to , and I don't know why? Did I piss you off in another thread?
Adam43
Posts
3309
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
12/10/2011 11:47pm
jeffro503 wrote:
[b]Adam[/b].....I'm not sure if that pop shot was thrown my way , but if it was , let me explain. Just because I can't go full...
Adam.....I'm not sure if that pop shot was thrown my way , but if it was , let me explain. Just because I can't go full out for more than 2 laps , doesn't mean I don't actually stay out there for anything less than 20-30 mins at a time on good weather days. Last week I burned a good 3-1/2 - 4 gallons through my bike on Saturday.......so yeah , i got plenty of riding in. Way more than if I would have raced.

With practice days , I can go as fast as I can for as long as I can , then knock it down to about 75% , and go back and forth like that for a good 20+ min easily. I can't go full out for very long , but my fitness is getting better.

So why the pop shot? Actually i think you took another one at me just the other day to , and I don't know why? Did I piss you off in another thread?
??? Not directed at you at all jeffro.

But if you`re riding that much, you should definitely get racing again! I think there`s lots of people in that boat, which is why I like Rup`s idea so much.
jeffro503
Posts
27632
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
12/11/2011 12:58am
jeffro503 wrote:
[b]Adam[/b].....I'm not sure if that pop shot was thrown my way , but if it was , let me explain. Just because I can't go full...
Adam.....I'm not sure if that pop shot was thrown my way , but if it was , let me explain. Just because I can't go full out for more than 2 laps , doesn't mean I don't actually stay out there for anything less than 20-30 mins at a time on good weather days. Last week I burned a good 3-1/2 - 4 gallons through my bike on Saturday.......so yeah , i got plenty of riding in. Way more than if I would have raced.

With practice days , I can go as fast as I can for as long as I can , then knock it down to about 75% , and go back and forth like that for a good 20+ min easily. I can't go full out for very long , but my fitness is getting better.

So why the pop shot? Actually i think you took another one at me just the other day to , and I don't know why? Did I piss you off in another thread?
Adam43 wrote:
??? Not directed at you at all jeffro. But if you`re riding that much, you should definitely get racing again! I think there`s lots of people...
??? Not directed at you at all jeffro.

But if you`re riding that much, you should definitely get racing again! I think there`s lots of people in that boat, which is why I like Rup`s idea so much.
I see......misunderstanding. My main problem boils down to my stamina. I have a terrible set of lungs ( born with asthma and damaged in a bike wreck ) so I run low on oxygen sometimes. I think this new spin bike I got last month is helping though. That is my main goal this whole winter , is to get my lungs working well enough to be able to do some races. It's been a pain , but enjoyable at the same time.
lumpy790
Posts
11439
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
12/11/2011 6:48am
My local practice track TNT just started having youth only races on Saturday mornings. After that it's ride like you want.

I have only raced one or two times a year for a long time. This year i raced a few races trying for LL & Mini O's....... And I found out quick why I don't prefer only racing. Too much sitting around waiting for your motos.
Huckster
Posts
2585
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Woodstock , NY US
12/11/2011 7:08am
A novel idea would be to break the day up in to 2 seperate events. The morning session run all the Vet classes, +25, 30, 35, 40 etc. .... start at 7:30am with a practice and the motos go 8:30-12:30. 1 moto per class 15 min +1. The average lap time around here is under 2min so that would give you around 8 laps per class. Staggering starts if the classes are not full is also an option. Start the second session at 1pm. Youth classes, cc classes and A classes. Use the same format. This would allow the Vets to get in and out. It also gives the kids time to sleep in a bit. If a family has kids, you dont have to get there at 6am. If you race in classes in both sessions you're going to be there all day anyway so it doesnt really matter. I am sure there are holes in my idea and I didnt work out the time to the minute, but MXsports runs LL as tight as possible and they get it all in. If it was thought through, I think it could work. For the track staff, they are going to be there all day as well so it should be a non-issue. You could even have designated parking areas if traffic flow was an issue.
Highsider
Posts
7679
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Way Toasty, IA US
12/11/2011 7:20am
I sign up for two classes.
Add that to a bit of bike/gear/body prep in between.
I barely have time to watch the fast guys and visit with friends!

Oh, and have they added a START GATE to practice sessions? (starts are my favorite part of motocross)
mikey
Posts
160
Joined
4/8/2007
Location
Lafayette, IN US
12/11/2011 9:03am
Personally I much prefer practice to racing unless the race is a dual sport, enduro or cool mx race at a track that never has practice. I ride on my own property, private property and practice days 90% of the time. Race 10% of the time. I think there are more practicers than racers for a very simple reason.

1. More laps, less money.
2. More freedom. You can do one lap or 50 laps.
3. Less cost.
4. Less need to have a competitive bike.
5. Less risk most likely because of no holeshot.

I also ride several forms of motorcycles which helps me ride alot. I ride mx, trials, pitbike, dual sport, enduro, harescrambles and a little supermoto. I think the key to keeping our sport growing is for riders not to just focus on "racing" and mx only. We need more all around riders who ride everywhere, not just on tracks.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
12/11/2011 9:38am
To me, you're either racing or just riding, and I don't think a hybrid system is the answer. To me, we need to know why people don't race much any more. In my case, I only race a couple of times a year because you're there all day and only ride two short motos - even the EVO series that I prefer runs about 5 or 6 lap motos, and that's twice as long as some other series' I've ridden in the last few years. It's out-for-blood at the start, WFO for 3 or 4 laps in most races, and guys riding 3 classes at a total cost of maybe $150 per weekend; no wonder races don't pull enough riders. Too dangerous, no chance to overcome a bad start or capitalize on good training, and you're there from before sunup to after sundown to ride maybe 8 laps total.

IMO, the solution is to go to a one 20 minute moto format and set the schedule so you can show up an hour or two before your moto, sign up, race, and then get out of there. I'd do that regularly if someone set something like that up.

The flip side is, what's wrong with guys who just want to ride? They keep the tracks open, they buy new bikes and accessories, they're having a good time, they're often riding with their kids and having a blast doing it, and it's a fantastic family experience. Not a bad deal overall.
-eagle-
Posts
1610
Joined
5/9/2008
Location
ZW
12/11/2011 9:47am Edited Date/Time 12/11/2011 9:48am
To many bullshit classes.
Only run that crap at Areas and Regionals

Post a reply to: Pro-Practicers Vs. Motocross RACERS

The Latest