New Electric MX: BRD Redshift

fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
8/12/2011 9:00am
Hey all, this is Marc F, CEO of BRD. Been a lurker on this forum for a little while, thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I was expecting a more negative response, so thanks for taking it easy on us. My favorite quote from past discussions with motocrossers was "I'd rather lose on a gas bike than win on some faggy electric."

Quick responses to some of the questions and comments:
- Chassis geometry, weight distribution, center of gravity, and suspension setup are all right inline with the Japanese motocrossers. That was our blueprint, and that drove the design of the chassis and drivetrain. The bike should feel immediately familiar, although a touch narrow.
- Rear brake is an available option, but once you get used to the hand brake (about 30 minutes of riding) I'll be surprised if anybody but old-timers choose it. The hand brake is just so much more sensitive, and frees up your right foot for right turns.
- Price... I'm not confirming that pricing, but there's no way around it, these bikes are expensive. Performance was our first priority. The cost is what it is as a result. That said, I think most riders will be faster on one of these than a gas bike, and the maintenance is WAY lower. If you're paying someone to do your engine work, you'll break even against a CRF250R at about 200hours. Plus you'll spend more time riding.
- Battery is fixed, not swappable. Our 1st gen design was hot swappable, until we realized there was no way someone was going to swap an 85lbs battery worth half the cost of the bike in the mud next to the track. A fixed battery is lighter, smaller, cheaper, and more durable. We're working on fast charging instead.

Anyway, thanks for the interest. We're committed to developing this thing until it's the fastest bike out there, and the feedback is helpful, so keep it coming.
Tiki
Posts
10615
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA, USA
Fantasy
8/12/2011 9:26am
MaxPower wrote:
[b]I would have to download a ProCiruit 125 engine noise to the speaker. It would be cool you could make your bike sound like anything you...
I would have to download a ProCiruit 125 engine noise to the speaker. It would be cool you could make your bike sound like anything you wanted to. You could even make it sound like a V8 or have a supercharger whine
I would like the Tron Bike sound. Or a X-Wing. Better yet the Millunium Falcon sound.

Skywalker Sound could expand its business to MX for electric bikes. They would be like the next Pro Circuit.
fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
8/12/2011 1:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2011 1:44pm
Tiki wrote:
I would like the Tron Bike sound. Or a X-Wing. Better yet the Millunium Falcon sound. Skywalker Sound could expand its business to MX for electric...
I would like the Tron Bike sound. Or a X-Wing. Better yet the Millunium Falcon sound.

Skywalker Sound could expand its business to MX for electric bikes. They would be like the next Pro Circuit.
They're not silent - if we're drawing references from the nerdopedia, they sound like Pod Racers (this one isn't ours... it's Chip Yates' but similar sound):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-SYq8H4xnI[/youtube]
Pdub
Posts
1477
Joined
8/2/2006
Location
Wheaton, MD, USA
8/12/2011 3:14pm
Welcome Marc F!

Now, how about a special Vital MX test ride day in SoCal? Wink

The Shop

希望
Posts
327
Joined
6/25/2011
Location
USA
8/12/2011 5:42pm
That's pretty cool.

I wonder what Motocross is going to look like 10 years from now - or longer?
4mxonly
Posts
1060
Joined
2/17/2008
Location
Middle Of The Hand, MI, USA
8/12/2011 6:57pm
Manufacturers website [url=http://www.faster-faster.com/]http://www.faster-faster.com/[/url] [img]http://www.faster-faster.com/images/bike.jpg[/img]
Manufacturers website

http://www.faster-faster.com/

The future of Raise It Up Sundays.
MaxPower
Posts
2700
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
8/13/2011 5:29am
I know it makes me sound old probably because I am, but with every advancement that comes along on new motocross bikes, I like twin shock ai
r cooled rm 125s that much better
fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
8/15/2011 2:47pm
Pdub wrote:
Welcome Marc F!

Now, how about a special Vital MX test ride day in SoCal? Wink
Looking forward to having some of those - though you're more likely to spot us in NorCal and we won't be doing test rides for awhile. Got to get this thing right. The last thing we want to do is disappoint riders.
8/15/2011 2:58pm
Hey all, this is Marc F, CEO of BRD. Been a lurker on this forum for a little while, thought I would chime in. Honestly, I...
Hey all, this is Marc F, CEO of BRD. Been a lurker on this forum for a little while, thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I was expecting a more negative response, so thanks for taking it easy on us. My favorite quote from past discussions with motocrossers was "I'd rather lose on a gas bike than win on some faggy electric."

Quick responses to some of the questions and comments:
- Chassis geometry, weight distribution, center of gravity, and suspension setup are all right inline with the Japanese motocrossers. That was our blueprint, and that drove the design of the chassis and drivetrain. The bike should feel immediately familiar, although a touch narrow.
- Rear brake is an available option, but once you get used to the hand brake (about 30 minutes of riding) I'll be surprised if anybody but old-timers choose it. The hand brake is just so much more sensitive, and frees up your right foot for right turns.
- Price... I'm not confirming that pricing, but there's no way around it, these bikes are expensive. Performance was our first priority. The cost is what it is as a result. That said, I think most riders will be faster on one of these than a gas bike, and the maintenance is WAY lower. If you're paying someone to do your engine work, you'll break even against a CRF250R at about 200hours. Plus you'll spend more time riding.
- Battery is fixed, not swappable. Our 1st gen design was hot swappable, until we realized there was no way someone was going to swap an 85lbs battery worth half the cost of the bike in the mud next to the track. A fixed battery is lighter, smaller, cheaper, and more durable. We're working on fast charging instead.

Anyway, thanks for the interest. We're committed to developing this thing until it's the fastest bike out there, and the feedback is helpful, so keep it coming.
Keep it up Marc. AWESOME!!
I can't wait to own one someday.
TG130
Posts
1257
Joined
4/13/2008
Location
USA
8/15/2011 10:19pm
I would love to have a bike like this that performs well, and I like the idea of electric power also. There's so many places I could ride a bike like this undetected around where I live. I would never be able to ride in these places with a gas powered MX bike. It would be a blast.
mxmasta
Posts
1425
Joined
3/2/2010
Location
Planet Earth, DE
8/15/2011 11:51pm
TG130 wrote:
I would love to have a bike like this that performs well, and I like the idea of electric power also. There's so many places I...
I would love to have a bike like this that performs well, and I like the idea of electric power also. There's so many places I could ride a bike like this undetected around where I live. I would never be able to ride in these places with a gas powered MX bike. It would be a blast.
Same here! As soon as a electric MX-bike is comparable to a gas-bike in terms of durability and solidity i will definitly buy one to ride here in my area. Not too much noise, no oil, no gas ... the treehuggers wont find anything to prevent me from riding in the backyard.
OldGuy
Posts
80
Joined
3/27/2009
Location
Red Neck, MO, USA
8/16/2011 6:48am
Just think of the savings on Gas, Engine Oil, Tranny Oil, Filter Oil, Oil and Air Filters, Radiator coolant and Aftermarket Pipes. The Aftermarket company's will not like these bikes. I could put my own practice track in my back yard.
DrSweden
Posts
6761
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm, SE
8/16/2011 7:11am
Awesome!!! Good looking bike and the future for sure. I wish I could take one for a spin. That's the only thing that would convince me buying on of these (I did the mistake buying a 450 without testing it, costed me $1200).

But it's just a matter of time (battery development).
Camp332
Posts
8694
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Zoo Jersey, USA
8/16/2011 7:22am
The future is wide open. My neighbors will see me flying through the air on a silent moto machine, and they can't call the cops!
Jharper
Posts
778
Joined
7/13/2011
Location
Tampa Bay, FL, USA
8/16/2011 7:41am
it's gonna suck for judging jumps for people who base it on sound. Especially for fmx. although it would be sick to see and ride!
Kryan5
Posts
792
Joined
2/17/2011
Location
Etters, PA, USA
8/16/2011 8:27am
Hey all, this is Marc F, CEO of BRD. Been a lurker on this forum for a little while, thought I would chime in. Honestly, I...
Hey all, this is Marc F, CEO of BRD. Been a lurker on this forum for a little while, thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I was expecting a more negative response, so thanks for taking it easy on us. My favorite quote from past discussions with motocrossers was "I'd rather lose on a gas bike than win on some faggy electric."

Quick responses to some of the questions and comments:
- Chassis geometry, weight distribution, center of gravity, and suspension setup are all right inline with the Japanese motocrossers. That was our blueprint, and that drove the design of the chassis and drivetrain. The bike should feel immediately familiar, although a touch narrow.
- Rear brake is an available option, but once you get used to the hand brake (about 30 minutes of riding) I'll be surprised if anybody but old-timers choose it. The hand brake is just so much more sensitive, and frees up your right foot for right turns.
- Price... I'm not confirming that pricing, but there's no way around it, these bikes are expensive. Performance was our first priority. The cost is what it is as a result. That said, I think most riders will be faster on one of these than a gas bike, and the maintenance is WAY lower. If you're paying someone to do your engine work, you'll break even against a CRF250R at about 200hours. Plus you'll spend more time riding.
- Battery is fixed, not swappable. Our 1st gen design was hot swappable, until we realized there was no way someone was going to swap an 85lbs battery worth half the cost of the bike in the mud next to the track. A fixed battery is lighter, smaller, cheaper, and more durable. We're working on fast charging instead.

Anyway, thanks for the interest. We're committed to developing this thing until it's the fastest bike out there, and the feedback is helpful, so keep it coming.
Marc,
Just out of curiosity i have a few questions. What will it free spin like. Is it going to be like auto brake when you let off the throttle. Also, what about the motor bearings. When they take a crap, which is the most common failure in electric motors, is it going to just lock up and throw the rider? I assume your going to use a brushless DC motor. Where will these be repaired as a typical bike shop will have no clue how to work on these. What horsepower or KW motors are going to be availalbe and how will that relate to a current 250/450. I'm sure i have many more questions, but this will take care of my curiosity for now. Thanks,
fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
8/16/2011 10:15am
Kryan5 wrote:
Marc, Just out of curiosity i have a few questions. What will it free spin like. Is it going to be like auto brake when you...
Marc,
Just out of curiosity i have a few questions. What will it free spin like. Is it going to be like auto brake when you let off the throttle. Also, what about the motor bearings. When they take a crap, which is the most common failure in electric motors, is it going to just lock up and throw the rider? I assume your going to use a brushless DC motor. Where will these be repaired as a typical bike shop will have no clue how to work on these. What horsepower or KW motors are going to be availalbe and how will that relate to a current 250/450. I'm sure i have many more questions, but this will take care of my curiosity for now. Thanks,
Kryan, I'll answer as well as I can with what we can comfortably reveal at this point. We're still filing patents, and conducting testing, so there are certain things I can't say. Also, work with me on words like "throttle" and "engine-braking" - the vocabulary doesn't yet exist for the electric equivalent.

First, "free spin"... it's programmable. We're trying to keep software and especially fiddling to a minimum, but one of the benefits of electric is you can have almost any closed throttle behavior you want: heavy 4-stroke engine braking, light 2-stroke engine braking, or my current setup, constant slight forward chain tension. With the bike set up this way, so that it always takes up the chain slack (but doesn't pull hard enough to actually move you), there is near perfect off-throttle response. It's pretty amazing to come out of a corner and not have that "snap" upset the bike as you get back on the gas. But this also makes it freewheel into the corner, so you have to be really solid with your rear brake. It also means there's no engine braking to catch a wheelie... again, rear brake.

We haven't had a motor bearing seize yet, and that's exactly what we'll be trying to induce for the next 6 months. Part of the benefit of our frame design is that all of the bearing surfaces are perfectly aligned, which should mean the bearings perform to their rated life (well beyond the life of a dirt bike). They are all easy to inspect, and relatively easy to replace. You're right, having one seize would be unpleasant. Though the wheel has such mechanical advantage over the motor it should still roll to a stop, you would have a hard time pushing to bike out.

The proprietary parts (essentially everything from the swingarm pivot to head-stock) are all of a modular cartridge format. While all BRD dealers will go through service training, most of the time they will simply confirm a part failure, pop out the part with a few bolts and a harness, receive a replacement and ship the old one back to us. As far as we can tell, this is the fastest possible turnaround with the least necessary training, and it lets our engineers diagnose any failures that we may have not seen in our testing.

We are starting with the 40hp (29kW) drivetrain revealed a few weeks ago, and will concentrate on that format for awhile. We'd rather get one category right than two or three wrong. Our target has always been lites class. While the 250s have plenty of power when you find it, the hard part about riding them is finding the torque. With the torque available pretty much everywhere, the RedShift feels more powerful than a 250, but the top end is about the same. We may be biased (Jeff and I are both on 250s, his following a 520), but we think 250 is the sweet spot for most riders and racers. Lots of people use the grunt of 450s, but unless you're in the desert or sand, very few folks ever use the top end.
fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
9/20/2011 4:58pm
Bumping this for some video of the team and bike. An 18yo kid from Montana, Sam Erickson, asked if he could shoot the build of the latest prototype and the company launch. We said "sure." He blew our minds with this little number:

Hut
Posts
10281
Joined
4/27/2010
Location
USA
9/20/2011 5:23pm
Looks awesome can't wait to see how things progress.
I will keep my clothespin and trading cards ready...
manering
Posts
307
Joined
7/14/2008
Location
USA
9/20/2011 6:01pm
Camp332 wrote:
The future is wide open. My neighbors will see me flying through the air on a silent moto machine, and they can't call the cops!
yes they will, if you look like your having fun the'll find a way to stop it.
manering
Posts
307
Joined
7/14/2008
Location
USA
9/20/2011 6:05pm
I think electric bikes have the possibility of reviving the sport in the future due to the low cost. Back in 1996, GMC was designing electric...
I think electric bikes have the possibility of reviving the sport in the future due to the low cost. Back in 1996, GMC was designing electric cars, but the plan was aborted because they were so inexpensive to maintain (watch the documentary Who Killed The Electric Car). Maintaining an electric bike would probably end up being cheaper that maintaining a 2-stroke. But what will the classes be like though? The 500-volt class, and the 250-volt class? haha
yeah and then you know what'll happen, someone will bring out a 350volt to race the 500 volts claiming rideability advantages, it'll be around for a few years ruin a few riders careers then die off, same shit different era.
9/20/2011 6:13pm
I like the idea of electric bikes. I'd want a dual sport version. MMMMmmmmmmmmm. Your prototype is a sweet looking machine fasterfaster. Nice to see it moving a bit in the vid too. MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................
stillwelding
Posts
3235
Joined
1/22/2007
Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
9/20/2011 6:49pm
Bumping this for some video of the team and bike. An 18yo kid from Montana, Sam Erickson, asked if he could shoot the build of the...
Bumping this for some video of the team and bike. An 18yo kid from Montana, Sam Erickson, asked if he could shoot the build of the latest prototype and the company launch. We said "sure." He blew our minds with this little number:

I'm glad somebody bumped this post back up, or I'd never been able to see this video. That's some nice work and really gives a feel for what you guys are trying to accomplish.
fs
Posts
36
Joined
11/8/2011
Location
HR
11/8/2011 11:49am
I like the idea of electric bikes. I'd want a dual sport version. MMMMmmmmmmmmm. Your prototype is a sweet looking machine fasterfaster. Nice to see it...
I like the idea of electric bikes. I'd want a dual sport version. MMMMmmmmmmmmm. Your prototype is a sweet looking machine fasterfaster. Nice to see it moving a bit in the vid too. MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................
Bit more of it moving here - 1/8th mile against KTM 250 4 stroke. You can also sort of hear of what it sounds like.


video
fs
Posts
36
Joined
11/8/2011
Location
HR
11/8/2011 11:57am
I like the idea of electric bikes. I'd want a dual sport version. MMMMmmmmmmmmm. Your prototype is a sweet looking machine fasterfaster. Nice to see it...
I like the idea of electric bikes. I'd want a dual sport version. MMMMmmmmmmmmm. Your prototype is a sweet looking machine fasterfaster. Nice to see it moving a bit in the vid too. MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................
Bit more of it moving here - 1/8th mile against KTM 250 4 stroke. You can also sort of hear of what it sounds like.


video

(sorry in advance if double-posted)

fs
MotoChief
Posts
647
Joined
10/18/2011
Location
Guantanamo Bay, CU
11/8/2011 12:33pm
FasterFaster, have you guys tried to get into a National or SX to do a demo run? Just a couple laps in front of a big crowd would likely "energize" the general population about EMX(trademarked).
TerryB
Posts
2828
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cambridge, MN, USA
11/8/2011 1:13pm
This bike is very cool looking. Looks-wise, it and the KTM kick the Zero's ass. I really don't think we will miss gas motors, (I won't, Four strokes are too loud and sound shitty) can't wait...

I like the freewheeling/taught chain idea, heavy compression braking is one of the biggest things I dislike about riding Four-strokes.

Post a reply to: New Electric MX: BRD Redshift

The Latest