Forget about bringing back the 2 Stroke...

pmcc
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pmcc
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 4:24pm
... i think its more important to bring back the hard pack!!!!

There seems to be no hard pack tracks on the national schedule anymore and i cant understand why?

Remember when hangtown used to be near blue groove... and now it has soil as deep as any other track on the series.. what happen to the variety of surfaces? Why do all the tracks have to be manufactured into a rut fest?...why can they not be left with there natural surface?

All i can say is thank goodness for Windam and Pourcel keeping the seemly little used skill of throttle control alive! Because of the tracks all the other riders seem to have turned in to throttle jockeys!!! Its a joke!
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Moto East Mag 5/25/2011 9:59am
5/25/2011 9:59am
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 5/25/2011 10:03am
5/25/2011 10:03am
they put down "rice hulls" didnt they use to mix in bark?
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/25/2011 10:03am
5/25/2011 10:03am
Most of the big national tracks have different ways of preparing the dirt now days , then they did back then. I for one , prefer the loamy type dirt any day compared to a hard packed track. BUT.....there is still plenty of hard packed areas on a lot of these tracks that show up on a race weekend. Besides the fact....I think it's safer having dirt under you that the tires can grab , instead of slipping and sliding all over the place. Hard pack + Speed + mistake = broken bones.
keeptwostrokesalive 5/25/2011 10:04am
5/25/2011 10:04am
Moto East Mag wrote:
Cuz hard pack sucks? I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries...
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
x2,
Just imagine what would have happened to alessi if the track was hard packed.

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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 5/25/2011 10:04am
5/25/2011 10:04am
Hardpack can be a natural surface if the terrain is mostly clay. Adding rice pots, or whatever it is they mentioned on the telecast alters the way that track was naturally doesn't it? Clay will never be loam no matter what kind of maintenance you do on it.
yota
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yota 5/25/2011 10:09am
5/25/2011 10:09am
yeah, put Gatorback on the schedule again. compacted lime rock.
huck
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huck 5/25/2011 10:14am
5/25/2011 10:14am
Each track should have a unique soil mixture.. That's what makes it good.

If they try and make all the tracks the same, in regards to soil, why not just race each round on the same track?
Moto East Mag 5/25/2011 10:17am
5/25/2011 10:17am
The hardest track I ever rode was the Arenacross tracks. Holy Shit- they are basically pavement- like the whoops. And it feels like it when you land on it.
queen of spodes 5/25/2011 10:25am
5/25/2011 10:25am
Moto East Mag wrote:
Cuz hard pack sucks? I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries...
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
x2

Love sand for the same reason... hard on equipment, but forgiving when I fall down.
robkinuk
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robkinuk 5/25/2011 10:28am
5/25/2011 10:28am
Saddleback park had a certain aura about it. Taught riders how to choose lines & throttle control.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 5/25/2011 10:33am
5/25/2011 10:33am
Hangtown is a better track for the prep that's gone into it the last few years. What makes it different, and all tracks, is it's flow (or lack thereof some years). It's also benefitted from it not getting as hot in the las few years. It definitely would still get blue grooved in more than a few places if race day starts hitting 100 again.

Although the base is classic Cali clay, with a tones of cobble out there from the gold dredging days, Carlsbad is the classic blue groove track. Or Saddleback, which was disced when I was there back packed back down to baked concrete pretty quickly.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 5/25/2011 10:35am
5/25/2011 10:35am
robkinuk wrote:
Saddleback park had a certain aura about it. Taught riders how to choose lines & throttle control.
I'm going to speak heresy, for all the magic of Carlsbad and Saddleback, the surface of both tracks was crap.
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 5/25/2011 10:39am
5/25/2011 10:39am
No money was spent on grooming at Carlsbad, the idea of it was not even thought of. Their idea fo track prep was turn on the sprinklers all night haha The only time I saw Carlsbad groomed was when my dad paid Mike Drews to come out and prep it for our Golden State Nationals that were filmed, only time that I knew of. In Europe, Austria comes to mind, my dad raced it in the 60's and I went there in the 80's and my dad said the track hadn't changed one bit, they didn't groom either, motocross is for men remember?? Well those bikes didn't have travel or the speed we have now, you need a more forgiving track. All I remember about Saddleback, besides the fact it's an amazing track, was it wasn't water truck friendly, steep places where you couldn't get water to most places, and that a gentleman, his name escapes me died when the water truck rolled over down the side of a hill, bad day ! Glad it wasn't at our race.

S
peelout
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peelout 5/25/2011 10:45am
5/25/2011 10:45am Edited Date/Time 5/25/2011 10:45am
i'll keep my 2001 YZ 250 for a long long time.

i love riding that thing every now and then, thing screams like a raped ape
jeffro503
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jeffro503 5/25/2011 10:48am
5/25/2011 10:48am
Sondy132001 wrote:
No money was spent on grooming at Carlsbad, the idea of it was not even thought of. Their idea fo track prep was turn on the...
No money was spent on grooming at Carlsbad, the idea of it was not even thought of. Their idea fo track prep was turn on the sprinklers all night haha The only time I saw Carlsbad groomed was when my dad paid Mike Drews to come out and prep it for our Golden State Nationals that were filmed, only time that I knew of. In Europe, Austria comes to mind, my dad raced it in the 60's and I went there in the 80's and my dad said the track hadn't changed one bit, they didn't groom either, motocross is for men remember?? Well those bikes didn't have travel or the speed we have now, you need a more forgiving track. All I remember about Saddleback, besides the fact it's an amazing track, was it wasn't water truck friendly, steep places where you couldn't get water to most places, and that a gentleman, his name escapes me died when the water truck rolled over down the side of a hill, bad day ! Glad it wasn't at our race.

S
I gotta say....Sondy is one smart motoX chick man! She is speaking on the same wavelength as me today. And i agree 100% , that with the evolution of these bikes today , the tracks had to change ( for the better ). It used to be that all the hard packed type tracks were down south , and we had all the loamy tracks up north......now the loamy stuff is every where......only difference is....you can ride basically all year long down south. Speaking of which.....it's friggin' pouring down here AGAIN! I'll be lucky to be able to ride more than once a week by fucking July the way it's been up here! Friggin' sucks!
RaceFace
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RaceFace 5/25/2011 10:53am
5/25/2011 10:53am
Moto East Mag wrote:
Cuz hard pack sucks? I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries...
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
Anyone remember the pics of hangtown circa 1985 or so, where everyone was wearing full moto goggles in the pits because the dust was so bad? Rice holes hold the water longer.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 5/25/2011 10:55am
5/25/2011 10:55am
And haven't we seen enough washouts during a race in SX?
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 5/25/2011 10:55am
5/25/2011 10:55am
Moto East Mag wrote:
Cuz hard pack sucks? I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries...
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
RaceFace wrote:
Anyone remember the pics of hangtown circa 1985 or so, where everyone was wearing full moto goggles in the pits because the dust was so bad...
Anyone remember the pics of hangtown circa 1985 or so, where everyone was wearing full moto goggles in the pits because the dust was so bad? Rice holes hold the water longer.
The wind was like 50 mph that day. It was picking gravel up off the parking area. That was my wifes first and last MX race, lol.

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mmcmx
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mmcmx 5/25/2011 10:58am
5/25/2011 10:58am
Hard pack sucks.
Moto4T5
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Moto4T5 5/25/2011 11:03am
5/25/2011 11:03am
Sondy132001 wrote:
No money was spent on grooming at Carlsbad, the idea of it was not even thought of. Their idea fo track prep was turn on the...
No money was spent on grooming at Carlsbad, the idea of it was not even thought of. Their idea fo track prep was turn on the sprinklers all night haha The only time I saw Carlsbad groomed was when my dad paid Mike Drews to come out and prep it for our Golden State Nationals that were filmed, only time that I knew of. In Europe, Austria comes to mind, my dad raced it in the 60's and I went there in the 80's and my dad said the track hadn't changed one bit, they didn't groom either, motocross is for men remember?? Well those bikes didn't have travel or the speed we have now, you need a more forgiving track. All I remember about Saddleback, besides the fact it's an amazing track, was it wasn't water truck friendly, steep places where you couldn't get water to most places, and that a gentleman, his name escapes me died when the water truck rolled over down the side of a hill, bad day ! Glad it wasn't at our race.

S
Sondy, his name was Everett, the water truck, and grader/tractor driver, nice dude!
Hman144 5/25/2011 11:07am
5/25/2011 11:07am
Some of y'all missed something from a day or two ago. No foul.

What did he say??

Take your heads out of that hull and keep up!

H
aFACEdismembered 5/25/2011 12:01pm
5/25/2011 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/25/2011 12:04pm
Who said what about taking Washougal off the schedule? It's overtaken Hangtown in recent years anyway.
Ozy
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Ozy 5/25/2011 1:40pm
5/25/2011 1:40pm
Back in the 70's there were quite a few places to ride and we didn't have to pay an entry fee and we had no idea who owned the land. We spent a lot of time trying to hide from the police when they showed up. With that in mind we were just happy to have a place to ride where we didn't have to run from the cops and bitching about hard pack dirt was the last thing on our mind!!

I rode both Saddleback and Carlsbad more times than I can count and I never once had a bad time or complained because it was blue groove.
mccread
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mccread 5/25/2011 2:59pm
5/25/2011 2:59pm
Moto East Mag wrote:
Cuz hard pack sucks? I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries...
Cuz hard pack sucks?
I don't think hard pack is a natural surface. It's what happens when you don't maintain the track. I owe several injuries to hard pack too. I'd rather land in loam than on pavement.
Hard pack requires a lot throttle control and smoothness especially in corners with no ruts or berms... a guy like CP or Windham would excel on a hard pack track if there was any left. France is full of them.. Yves Demaria was sensational on rock hard tracks.

Totally different skills to the loamy tracks you see in most US nationals today that reward aggression and an on off throttle style. It is funny to watch some people ride without ruts or berms too!
tobz
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tobz 5/25/2011 4:19pm
5/25/2011 4:19pm
How much better is it watching these riders go flat out on good soil? They're pushing as hard as they can with only their skill limiting their speed. I'd rather see that then watch them tip toe over slick bluegroove.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 5/25/2011 4:45pm
5/25/2011 4:45pm
"Forget about bringing back the 2 Stroke.." because there is no hardpack?

Hardpack puts 2 strokers at a DIS-advantage

bringing back hardpack makes 4 strokers even better
Rooster
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Rooster 5/25/2011 6:40pm
5/25/2011 6:40pm
tobz wrote:
How much better is it watching these riders go flat out on good soil? They're pushing as hard as they can with only their skill limiting...
How much better is it watching these riders go flat out on good soil? They're pushing as hard as they can with only their skill limiting their speed. I'd rather see that then watch them tip toe over slick bluegroove.
I'd rather see a series where different skills shine on different tracks. Where being an all around skilled rider was rewarded at the end of the year.

Honestly, if they made every track surface the same perfect loamy soft dirt, the next step would be to take out all the right turns and build a cage around the bikes.

Boo Frickin Hoo about falling down on hardpack. Maybe they ought to build the ramps and the parks for the x-games out of styrofoam so the skaters and the bmx'rs don't get hurt when they fall down on the hard masonite. Make every landing a foam pit just in case they don't get it perfect.

At what point did this sport get overtaken by a bunch of pussies with sand in their vaginas? You ride as fast as you can over everything beyond the gate in front of you until a guy waves a checkered flag at you. If you're the first one he waves it at, you win. Where does bitching about the track some into play? Did the other guys get to ride a different track than you did?
tobz
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tobz 5/25/2011 6:44pm
5/25/2011 6:44pm
Aw no need to accuse me of "sand-in-vagina-itis" Sad I just like watching them go fast. It's hard enough trying to make the guys look quick on tv.
CamP
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CamP 5/25/2011 7:22pm
5/25/2011 7:22pm
I hate hard pack.

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