Relieved To Hear Cooper Webb Okay After Aircraft Incident

Rupert X
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Rupert X
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9/9/2024 9:21am

*once again, can’t load pics.  Ugh. 

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The Shop

ML512
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9/9/2024 10:50am
FGR01 wrote:
shortty761 wrote:

So Proggressive sponsors Suzuki, Honda, and now Yamaha???

Started with HEP, added Yamaha 450 program coming into 2024, KTM part way through outdoors, and now Honda coming into SMX.

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aeffertz
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9/9/2024 10:59am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 11:05am
ML512 wrote:

Started with HEP, added Yamaha 450 program coming into 2024, KTM part way through outdoors, and now Honda coming into SMX.

No wonder my rates keep going up!

That makes me think though, when’s the last time Honda had a title sponsor? Muscle Milk with Trey Canard?

image 198
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Alex.434
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9/9/2024 11:17am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 11:31am

Part 135 op in a twin-engine charter. Engine out and being able to perform a safe landing shouldn't be too bad, being at night throws a little extra fun into the mix. Pilots train for single engine ops. The worst time to lose and engine in a twin would be on take-off or landing when you are low and slow. At cruise altitude, much less of an issue, but hats off the the pilot. General aviation flying (non-airlines) is roughly as safe as riding a motorcycle when it comes to fatalities. The vast majority of fatal accidents are highly avoidable, and the result of pilot error. Running out of gas, flying into terrain, flying into weather (with no IR), or piss poor maintenance practices (pencil whipped annuals, etc). 

There are roughly 300 fatalities annually in non-Part 121 flying, 0.00009% of the US population. Part 121 ops (airlines) is ridiculously safe. You're more likely to be killed by a lightening strike than be killed in an airline crash.
 

GTFO of here with that DEI shit btw. You literally have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to aviation hiring, training, or flying. There are a lot of issues with aviation training currently, and that ain't one of them.

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vdrsnk04
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9/9/2024 12:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 12:57pm
ML512 wrote:

Started with HEP, added Yamaha 450 program coming into 2024, KTM part way through outdoors, and now Honda coming into SMX.

aeffertz wrote:
No wonder my rates keep going up!That makes me think though, when’s the last time Honda had a title sponsor? Muscle Milk with Trey Canard?

No wonder my rates keep going up!

That makes me think though, when’s the last time Honda had a title sponsor? Muscle Milk with Trey Canard?

image 198

Mannnn I forgot how wicked looking Trey’s bike was in that era! 🤤

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kylemenz1
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9/9/2024 1:02pm

Sure would have been cool to see some tv coverage of Webb moving through the pack in the 2nd moto 

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Tumic
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9/9/2024 1:19pm

The big question here is if magoofan have a picture of the webb line yet?

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Magoofan
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9/9/2024 1:26pm

I opened a thread about Webb and an aircraft incident and a fight has broken out over statistics....

You have to love Vital.... 🤣

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Magoofan
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9/9/2024 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 1:33pm

How I roll, baby.

Chance of death driving reduced to near zero.....

i1g-2O-3072700899200-2046345157
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Beeby
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9/9/2024 1:30pm

I’m more concerned about Coops logic for rejoining the track. He thinks if he rejoins where he was when he went off that’s ok. Which is nonsense because leaving the track should lose you time and positions, you can’t just ride to a new place to enter the track and drop back in where you were. How did he think that was ok 

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Brent
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9/9/2024 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 1:33pm

You hear about fatal crashes all the time involving small aircraft due to water in the fuel from improperly sealed fuel caps- a lot of times the pilot is in a hurry, and does not test the fuel for contamination or water content. 

I won’t fly on one of those planes , you never know if somebody decided to take shortcuts to the preflight checklist…

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Tumic
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9/9/2024 1:34pm
Beeby wrote:
I’m more concerned about Coops logic for rejoining the track. He thinks if he rejoins where he was when he went off that’s ok. Which is...

I’m more concerned about Coops logic for rejoining the track. He thinks if he rejoins where he was when he went off that’s ok. Which is nonsense because leaving the track should lose you time and positions, you can’t just ride to a new place to enter the track and drop back in where you were. How did he think that was ok 

It’s not the first time. In SX a couple of years ago he crashed in a corner before the whoops. He picked the bike up, rode towards the whoops and then went off track and rode beside them and re-entered the track after them again. 

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plowboy
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9/9/2024 1:47pm

1.  I've been a part of a shit ton of certfication testing on those Beech aircraft (at least it looks like a Beech except for the square windows and clamshell door.  Maybe Gworm can confirm?).  They've been building them for a very long time. If I'm gonna lose an engine on a twin...that's about the safest I know of.  (Personally, I prefer 4 big jet engines but I wear a belt AND suspenders).🙃

2.  It is true that flying is safter than driving if miles traveled vs deaths is the stat used.  The stat I use is deaths per accident.  The chances of surviving an auto accident are much better than falling out of the sky.  I'd consider this an "incident" not an accident.  Still scary shit.

3.  I can tell you that the maintenance records are already being looked at with a microscope.  The mechanics have already pissed in a bottle.  The FAA is serious about this stuff...thank you Jesus.

4.  Hopefully the Webster got his bad luck out of the way and comes in hot in Dallas...er...Fort Worth.😉

 

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JazzyJJ
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9/9/2024 1:54pm
plowboy wrote:
1.  I've been a part of a shit ton of certfication testing on those Beech aircraft (at least it looks like a Beech except for the...

1.  I've been a part of a shit ton of certfication testing on those Beech aircraft (at least it looks like a Beech except for the square windows and clamshell door.  Maybe Gworm can confirm?).  They've been building them for a very long time. If I'm gonna lose an engine on a twin...that's about the safest I know of.  (Personally, I prefer 4 big jet engines but I wear a belt AND suspenders).🙃

2.  It is true that flying is safter than driving if miles traveled vs deaths is the stat used.  The stat I use is deaths per accident.  The chances of surviving an auto accident are much better than falling out of the sky.  I'd consider this an "incident" not an accident.  Still scary shit.

3.  I can tell you that the maintenance records are already being looked at with a microscope.  The mechanics have already pissed in a bottle.  The FAA is serious about this stuff...thank you Jesus.

4.  Hopefully the Webster got his bad luck out of the way and comes in hot in Dallas...er...Fort Worth.😉

 

If you use the state of "deaths per accident" you surely have to take into account accidents per some unit of measure traveled, right?

 

You can't just say "Everyone who drinks water dies" which while true is not even close to the real world implications of drinking water. If more people die per air travel accident, but there are far far less of them per unit traveled, that makes it a completely different answer. Further, if you sub out GA flying it makes it not even comparable(GA is dangerous, commercial operations are much less so)

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plowboy
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9/9/2024 2:02pm
Beeby wrote:
I’m more concerned about Coops logic for rejoining the track. He thinks if he rejoins where he was when he went off that’s ok. Which is...

I’m more concerned about Coops logic for rejoining the track. He thinks if he rejoins where he was when he went off that’s ok. Which is nonsense because leaving the track should lose you time and positions, you can’t just ride to a new place to enter the track and drop back in where you were. How did he think that was ok 

Tumic wrote:
It’s not the first time. In SX a couple of years ago he crashed in a corner before the whoops. He picked the bike up, rode...

It’s not the first time. In SX a couple of years ago he crashed in a corner before the whoops. He picked the bike up, rode towards the whoops and then went off track and rode beside them and re-entered the track after them again. 

Can't really argue...both valid points...BUT,  the track design Saturday kinda made a snap decision more difficult.  Oh well...he ain't bitchin' about the penalty and that's what studs do.

I also give him props on the whoop skipping deal.  I doubt many folks could skim or even jump a set of SX whoops from a near dead stop.  Not to mention being a hazard to the guys blitzing from behind if he tried to wallow through them.  Just my opinion...yours may be wrong.🤣

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plowboy
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9/9/2024 2:09pm
JazzyJJ wrote:
If you use the state of "deaths per accident" you surely have to take into account accidents per some unit of measure traveled, right? You can't just...

If you use the state of "deaths per accident" you surely have to take into account accidents per some unit of measure traveled, right?

 

You can't just say "Everyone who drinks water dies" which while true is not even close to the real world implications of drinking water. If more people die per air travel accident, but there are far far less of them per unit traveled, that makes it a completely different answer. Further, if you sub out GA flying it makes it not even comparable(GA is dangerous, commercial operations are much less so)

You ain't wrong about the stats but I'm talking about "reality".  If you lawn dart in a plane the chances of walking away are pretty much nil.   That's just truth.

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JazzyJJ
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9/9/2024 2:25pm
JazzyJJ wrote:
If you use the state of "deaths per accident" you surely have to take into account accidents per some unit of measure traveled, right? You can't just...

If you use the state of "deaths per accident" you surely have to take into account accidents per some unit of measure traveled, right?

 

You can't just say "Everyone who drinks water dies" which while true is not even close to the real world implications of drinking water. If more people die per air travel accident, but there are far far less of them per unit traveled, that makes it a completely different answer. Further, if you sub out GA flying it makes it not even comparable(GA is dangerous, commercial operations are much less so)

plowboy wrote:
You ain't wrong about the stats but I'm talking about "reality".  If you lawn dart in a plane the chances of walking away are pretty much...

You ain't wrong about the stats but I'm talking about "reality".  If you lawn dart in a plane the chances of walking away are pretty much nil.   That's just truth.

That is definitely the truth

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1911
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9/9/2024 2:35pm
Magoofan wrote:

I opened a thread about Webb and an aircraft incident and a fight has broken out over statistics....

You have to love Vital.... 🤣

I am sure the brain surgeon’s on Vital will get to the bottom of it. Right after they finish throwing poop at each other . 

 

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RY9MX
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9/9/2024 2:54pm

Looks like a Navajo? Spent many hours in the right seat of one with my father in law. At first glance it looked like nice new plane, but underneath it was a fragile 40+ year old shit box, imo. His was a ‘79 panther with 4blades like the pic. Last year they made them was 84, iirc. We lost a couple cylinders on a flight, and even with reduced power it was puckering. I’d imaging if they totally lost an engine it was quite eventful at night with a heavy load. 

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Alex.434
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9/9/2024 2:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 3:13pm

Guys, so we are clear on statistics:

Part 121 flying (airlines) is way safer than driving. This is well-documented. Part 91 and 135 flying (aka general aviation) is not safer than driving, but is roughly equivilant of riding motorcycles.

Cooper was on a Part 135 flight, so if you want to debate statistics, use the right data. Using Part 121 data (airlines) is non-applicable to Cooper's flight.

Very Basic Overview:
Part 91: General aviation (private, non-commercial)
Part 121: Scheduled commercial aviation (airlines)
Part 135: Non-scheduled commercial aviation (charters)

General aviation safety statistics encompass Part 91 and 135 including: aerial firefighting, medical helicopters, charter jets, banner towing, ag spraying, flight training, personal flying, and more. Basically all non-military aviation that isn't part 121.

Here's the latest (2023) GA accident report: https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institute/accident-analysis/richard-g-mcspadden-report 

I'm a Part 91 pilot and plane owner. I know exactly how my plane is maintained, my proficiency level, and I adhere to my personal minimums. Flying is unforgiving, but if you treat it with respect, you can greatly reduce the risk. I'd much rather fly 45 minutes up to LA than sit on the freeway for 3+ hours and as someone that lives in a very rural area (single lane backcountry road for 45+ minutes) I see a lot of insane driving. People passing on double yellows into blind turns/crests, etc. We have head on fatalities on our rural road often.

All that said, sometimes shit happens. That's life. Like riding moto. Who here hasn't had a crash that could have killed them? I know I've had a few, over the years, but still I ride.

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number six
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9/9/2024 4:37pm

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics - Mark Twain. 

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plowboy
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9/9/2024 4:52pm
Alex.434 wrote:
Guys, so we are clear on statistics:Part 121 flying (airlines) is way safer than driving. This is well-documented. Part 91 and 135 flying (aka general...

Guys, so we are clear on statistics:

Part 121 flying (airlines) is way safer than driving. This is well-documented. Part 91 and 135 flying (aka general aviation) is not safer than driving, but is roughly equivilant of riding motorcycles.

Cooper was on a Part 135 flight, so if you want to debate statistics, use the right data. Using Part 121 data (airlines) is non-applicable to Cooper's flight.

Very Basic Overview:
Part 91: General aviation (private, non-commercial)
Part 121: Scheduled commercial aviation (airlines)
Part 135: Non-scheduled commercial aviation (charters)

General aviation safety statistics encompass Part 91 and 135 including: aerial firefighting, medical helicopters, charter jets, banner towing, ag spraying, flight training, personal flying, and more. Basically all non-military aviation that isn't part 121.

Here's the latest (2023) GA accident report: https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institute/accident-analysis/richard-g-mcspadden-report 

I'm a Part 91 pilot and plane owner. I know exactly how my plane is maintained, my proficiency level, and I adhere to my personal minimums. Flying is unforgiving, but if you treat it with respect, you can greatly reduce the risk. I'd much rather fly 45 minutes up to LA than sit on the freeway for 3+ hours and as someone that lives in a very rural area (single lane backcountry road for 45+ minutes) I see a lot of insane driving. People passing on double yellows into blind turns/crests, etc. We have head on fatalities on our rural road often.

All that said, sometimes shit happens. That's life. Like riding moto. Who here hasn't had a crash that could have killed them? I know I've had a few, over the years, but still I ride.

I would have enjoyed the convienience of a bug beater but that's a lot of scratch.  Only thing i know of that's more expensive than a horse.🙃

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aeffertz
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9/9/2024 4:55pm
number six wrote:

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics - Mark Twain. 

They say that 57% of statistics are made up. 

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Rupert X
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9/9/2024 5:22pm
number six wrote:

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics - Mark Twain. 

aeffertz wrote:

They say that 57% of statistics are made up. 

Eighty percent of the time. IMG 9495.jpeg?VersionId=ab6p919 CQXfTQ.elziKJkPlN

Gworm
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9/9/2024 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2024 5:31pm
plowboy wrote:
1.  I've been a part of a shit ton of certfication testing on those Beech aircraft (at least it looks like a Beech except for the...

1.  I've been a part of a shit ton of certfication testing on those Beech aircraft (at least it looks like a Beech except for the square windows and clamshell door.  Maybe Gworm can confirm?).  They've been building them for a very long time. If I'm gonna lose an engine on a twin...that's about the safest I know of.  (Personally, I prefer 4 big jet engines but I wear a belt AND suspenders).🙃

2.  It is true that flying is safter than driving if miles traveled vs deaths is the stat used.  The stat I use is deaths per accident.  The chances of surviving an auto accident are much better than falling out of the sky.  I'd consider this an "incident" not an accident.  Still scary shit.

3.  I can tell you that the maintenance records are already being looked at with a microscope.  The mechanics have already pissed in a bottle.  The FAA is serious about this stuff...thank you Jesus.

4.  Hopefully the Webster got his bad luck out of the way and comes in hot in Dallas...er...Fort Worth.😉

 

Looks like a Cessna 402 to me. 
I could be wrong, though. 

Gworm
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9/9/2024 5:41pm
RY9MX wrote:
Looks like a Navajo? Spent many hours in the right seat of one with my father in law. At first glance it looked like nice new...

Looks like a Navajo? Spent many hours in the right seat of one with my father in law. At first glance it looked like nice new plane, but underneath it was a fragile 40+ year old shit box, imo. His was a ‘79 panther with 4blades like the pic. Last year they made them was 84, iirc. We lost a couple cylinders on a flight, and even with reduced power it was puckering. I’d imaging if they totally lost an engine it was quite eventful at night with a heavy load. 

At second glance, I think you’re right. 

 

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