PT ACF bars?

soggy
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Edited Date/Time 8/19/2022 3:33am
Anyone tried these yet? Can you compare them to stock KTM broken bars or Evo’s in terms of flex and vibration?
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Luxon MX
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2/4/2022 12:44pm
Would be nice to get a weight too. Interesting to see if they're lighter than the Renthal FB36 or not.
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soggy
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2/4/2022 3:08pm
Luxon MX wrote:
Would be nice to get a weight too. Interesting to see if they're lighter than the Renthal FB36 or not.
True. They claim it is the lightest correct?

With your material and engineering knowledge what are your initials thoughts on the bar?
yz133rider
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2/5/2022 1:29am
Luxon MX wrote:
Would be nice to get a weight too. Interesting to see if they're lighter than the Renthal FB36 or not.
soggy wrote:
True. They claim it is the lightest correct?

With your material and engineering knowledge what are your initials thoughts on the bar?
They claim to be the lightest 1 1/8 bar which makes me think they’re probably heavier than the fb36 bars.
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murph783
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2/5/2022 5:40am
Very interested in the flex and vibration transmission. Basically anything but an evo is too stiff for my tastes, but I would like to drop some weight up high…beyond losing my gut Grinning

The Shop

Luxon MX
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2/5/2022 10:02am
Luxon MX wrote:
Would be nice to get a weight too. Interesting to see if they're lighter than the Renthal FB36 or not.
soggy wrote:
True. They claim it is the lightest correct?

With your material and engineering knowledge what are your initials thoughts on the bar?
Well, the specification that they're the lightest 1 1/8" bar doesn't give me much confidence that they're lighter than a Renthal FB36, otherwise they would have just said they're the lightest bar.

It's an interesting choice to use an aluminum/carbon hybrid and it makes sense in some ways. They had the option of using the carbon on the outside and aluminum on the inside, or the other way around with the carbon on the inside and the aluminum on the outside (which is what they did).

Carbon on the outside would have been a much more efficient structure, as the outer layers are the ones that do the most work in supporting bending loads. But if you're going to do that, you may as well have a full carbon bar. The only point of the aluminum in that case is to prevent a catastrophic failure. The bars would likely bend rather than completely snap in failure which would lower the chance of significant injury.

With what they chose - carbon inside the aluminum - they get similar protection from catastrophic failure and they get much better protection from the stress risers of the bar mount clamps, the lever clamps, etc. and better protection from roost and similar damage.

They can tune the carbon stiffness to make it however stiff they'd like (within reason), so it's likely these flex the same as a regular Evo bar, or close to it. The benefit to the carbon is the increased strength at a low weight allows them to reduce the thickness of the aluminum and save some weight overall for the same bar strength (and likely the same stiffness). Plus they get to use the buzz word "carbon" which lots of people go nuts over.

I'm a fan of the Fatbar36 myself, so if it's not lighter than that, then I'm not too interested. It is nice that they use a standard 1 1/8" mount, though, and it's possible that they have a bit more flex (if that's what you're after), so they're certainly a good fit for some people.
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soggy
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2/6/2022 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2022 4:14pm
Luxon MX wrote:
Well, the specification that they're the lightest 1 1/8" bar doesn't give me much confidence that they're lighter than a Renthal FB36, otherwise they would have...
Well, the specification that they're the lightest 1 1/8" bar doesn't give me much confidence that they're lighter than a Renthal FB36, otherwise they would have just said they're the lightest bar.

It's an interesting choice to use an aluminum/carbon hybrid and it makes sense in some ways. They had the option of using the carbon on the outside and aluminum on the inside, or the other way around with the carbon on the inside and the aluminum on the outside (which is what they did).

Carbon on the outside would have been a much more efficient structure, as the outer layers are the ones that do the most work in supporting bending loads. But if you're going to do that, you may as well have a full carbon bar. The only point of the aluminum in that case is to prevent a catastrophic failure. The bars would likely bend rather than completely snap in failure which would lower the chance of significant injury.

With what they chose - carbon inside the aluminum - they get similar protection from catastrophic failure and they get much better protection from the stress risers of the bar mount clamps, the lever clamps, etc. and better protection from roost and similar damage.

They can tune the carbon stiffness to make it however stiff they'd like (within reason), so it's likely these flex the same as a regular Evo bar, or close to it. The benefit to the carbon is the increased strength at a low weight allows them to reduce the thickness of the aluminum and save some weight overall for the same bar strength (and likely the same stiffness). Plus they get to use the buzz word "carbon" which lots of people go nuts over.

I'm a fan of the Fatbar36 myself, so if it's not lighter than that, then I'm not too interested. It is nice that they use a standard 1 1/8" mount, though, and it's possible that they have a bit more flex (if that's what you're after), so they're certainly a good fit for some people.
Thanks Billy. I’m still on factory ktm nekken bars and looking for more flex more control room(I can’t run my levers in as far as I’d like) and if I can get less vibration as well I’d be thrilled. I know the evo has more flex, have to wait for some reviews on these I suppose.
wrc777
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2/7/2022 5:58am Edited Date/Time 2/7/2022 6:06am
I know it is ad copy but Protaper is claiming they use unwoven (unidirectional) carbon fiber and they increased the control are which seems to give the bar an odd shape from the pictures. They also mention increased flex and up to 20% lighter than other 1 1/8 bars which I would assume was whatever the heaviest bar is. Hopefully they are not comparing the weight to a cross bar style bar.

There are some pictures and you can see the direction they laid the fiber. It looks like it is made to keep the aluminum from crushing/folding up. I don't think it is going to add much rigidity to whatever the base aluminum already has. I would love to know the weight savings. It bet it absorbs a lot of higher frequency vibration with that CF core. I wonder if it feels too dead almost like I imagine a plastic bar would.
Luxon MX
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wrc777 wrote:
I know it is ad copy but Protaper is claiming they use unwoven (unidirectional) carbon fiber and they increased the control are which seems to give...
I know it is ad copy but Protaper is claiming they use unwoven (unidirectional) carbon fiber and they increased the control are which seems to give the bar an odd shape from the pictures. They also mention increased flex and up to 20% lighter than other 1 1/8 bars which I would assume was whatever the heaviest bar is. Hopefully they are not comparing the weight to a cross bar style bar.

There are some pictures and you can see the direction they laid the fiber. It looks like it is made to keep the aluminum from crushing/folding up. I don't think it is going to add much rigidity to whatever the base aluminum already has. I would love to know the weight savings. It bet it absorbs a lot of higher frequency vibration with that CF core. I wonder if it feels too dead almost like I imagine a plastic bar would.
Cdoggy81 just posted some weights in this thread:
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Bike-Builds,46/2020-yz250-build-full-sen…

EVO = 664g (635g advertised)
ACF = 593g (no weight advertised)
Fat36 = 437g
Old gold = 635g

So they're about 10% lighter than an Evo, but not even close to a FB36.

I'm not surprised they're using unidirectional carbon as that will be the most efficient. Fibers running along the bar is far more efficient in handling bending loads than the "traditional" woven carbon we're used to seeing everywhere.

And it should dampen vibration better than a standard aluminum bar as they have a composite structure of varying materials, stiffness, and density. The question is how much better does it dampen vibration than a standard bar?
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wrc777
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2/7/2022 8:38am
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long side of the bar.
Luxon MX
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wrc777 wrote:
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long...
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long side of the bar.


It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that interfaces with the bar. That could be for better adhesion to the bars or a completely made-up image for marketing. I would be surprised if the inner layers were anything but unidirectional along the length of the bars.
swordfish
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2/7/2022 10:36am
wrc777 wrote:
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long...
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long side of the bar.
Luxon MX wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532476/s1200_acf_handlebar_4.jpg[/img] It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that...


It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that interfaces with the bar. That could be for better adhesion to the bars or a completely made-up image for marketing. I would be surprised if the inner layers were anything but unidirectional along the length of the bars.
Let’s hope they hold up better than other composite bars😂

soggy
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2/7/2022 12:42pm
Keefer will have some impressions on the bar this week, FYI.
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Grouper
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2/16/2022 5:47am
wrc777 wrote:
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long...
In the cutaway picture it looks like the strands are running perpendicular to the bar? I would have expected them to run parallel to the long side of the bar.
Luxon MX wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532476/s1200_acf_handlebar_4.jpg[/img] It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that...


It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that interfaces with the bar. That could be for better adhesion to the bars or a completely made-up image for marketing. I would be surprised if the inner layers were anything but unidirectional along the length of the bars.
swordfish wrote:
Let’s hope they hold up better than other composite bars😂 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532486/s1200_556D90D1_921C_4003_BF5B_4CB8F0E91C52.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532487/s1200_AC371922_3EC8_4ECE_8096_D24E6E2C4D37.jpg[/img]
Let’s hope they hold up better than other composite bars😂

How did you like the Twisteds? What flex level did you get? I'm super intrigued by these.
How did they compare to some regular bars, like Evos?
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soggy
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2/16/2022 11:06am
I’m just waiting for Rocky Mountain to get these in stock and I’ll be trying a set on my 19 ktm 350
wrc777
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2/17/2022 6:24am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2022 6:28am
Picked mine up yesterday (SX Race). Installed on a KTM 150sx in place of EVO in race team bend. I think I like the SX Race bend better than the Race team bend. Other than that it was hard to tell because the track was a mess of ice under sand and some nice sized puddles and soupy sections. I will have to ride on some harder surfaces before I can tell anything.

I forgot to add there is a warning on both ends saying not to cut the bars or use full wrap handguards with an expanding plug. So don't plan on using full wrap handguards or cutting the bars shorter. There is no knurling on the clutch side either. I figured out why it comes with a new bar pad. The standard Pro-taper pad is too wide due to the increase in control surface area.
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Grouper
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2/17/2022 9:06am
wrc777 wrote:
Picked mine up yesterday (SX Race). Installed on a KTM 150sx in place of EVO in race team bend. I think I like the SX Race...
Picked mine up yesterday (SX Race). Installed on a KTM 150sx in place of EVO in race team bend. I think I like the SX Race bend better than the Race team bend. Other than that it was hard to tell because the track was a mess of ice under sand and some nice sized puddles and soupy sections. I will have to ride on some harder surfaces before I can tell anything.

I forgot to add there is a warning on both ends saying not to cut the bars or use full wrap handguards with an expanding plug. So don't plan on using full wrap handguards or cutting the bars shorter. There is no knurling on the clutch side either. I figured out why it comes with a new bar pad. The standard Pro-taper pad is too wide due to the increase in control surface area.
BTO has the: https://www.btosports.com/dirt-bike-gear/pro-taper-acf-handlebars

Also, WRC, what is "race team" bend? I haven't seen that one. Thanks man.
wrc777
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wrc777 wrote:
Picked mine up yesterday (SX Race). Installed on a KTM 150sx in place of EVO in race team bend. I think I like the SX Race...
Picked mine up yesterday (SX Race). Installed on a KTM 150sx in place of EVO in race team bend. I think I like the SX Race bend better than the Race team bend. Other than that it was hard to tell because the track was a mess of ice under sand and some nice sized puddles and soupy sections. I will have to ride on some harder surfaces before I can tell anything.

I forgot to add there is a warning on both ends saying not to cut the bars or use full wrap handguards with an expanding plug. So don't plan on using full wrap handguards or cutting the bars shorter. There is no knurling on the clutch side either. I figured out why it comes with a new bar pad. The standard Pro-taper pad is too wide due to the increase in control surface area.
Grouper wrote:
BTO has the: https://www.btosports.com/dirt-bike-gear/pro-taper-acf-handlebars

Also, WRC, what is "race team" bend? I haven't seen that one. Thanks man.
Race team bend is very similar to a renthal 839 (stock Honda and Kawi bar). There is also mx race which is close to a stock ktm bar. Protaper doesn’t have them listed on their site but some of the online retailers have them. Those are evo bars. No acf yet.
Hi Side
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2/18/2022 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2022 5:15pm
I'm a fan of everything Pro Taper (bars, sprockets, throttle tubes, grips) and I can't wait to give these a go. I'll put a set on the 250 first and test them out. If they're an improvement over the Evo I'll put them on the rest of my bikes.
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swordfish
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2/20/2022 6:06am
Luxon MX wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532476/s1200_acf_handlebar_4.jpg[/img] It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that...


It's hard to tell what's going on from the photo, but it looks like some sort of weave, at least on the outer-most layer that interfaces with the bar. That could be for better adhesion to the bars or a completely made-up image for marketing. I would be surprised if the inner layers were anything but unidirectional along the length of the bars.
swordfish wrote:
Let’s hope they hold up better than other composite bars😂 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532486/s1200_556D90D1_921C_4003_BF5B_4CB8F0E91C52.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/07/532487/s1200_AC371922_3EC8_4ECE_8096_D24E6E2C4D37.jpg[/img]
Let’s hope they hold up better than other composite bars😂

Grouper wrote:
How did you like the Twisteds? What flex level did you get? I'm super intrigued by these. How did they compare to some regular bars, like...
How did you like the Twisteds? What flex level did you get? I'm super intrigued by these.
How did they compare to some regular bars, like Evos?
Those were older gen 2 3X KTM bend. Awesome bars! Should have retired them earlier as they were showing stress cracks. The newer versions are even stronger.
2
wrc777
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8/17/2022 7:33pm
I bought a sale and thought I would add some weights. I came up with very similar bar weights as posted previously. However I also weighed the bar pads and the acf pad is a porker.

Acf pad 156g
Protaper evo pad 119g
Husky oem pad (‘22) 93g

So the oem husky bar plus pad are 8g lighter than acf bar and pad.
8/18/2022 10:30am
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems.
wrc777
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8/18/2022 12:17pm
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/18/564509/s1200_A34F7547_290D_4E2B_A075_FA4EB10CD3C8.jpg[/img]
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems.
What do they do better than your old bars?
1
8/19/2022 3:33am
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/18/564509/s1200_A34F7547_290D_4E2B_A075_FA4EB10CD3C8.jpg[/img]
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems.
wrc777 wrote:
What do they do better than your old bars?
Noticeable impact reduction over PT EVO, and the bars are bent to have as much control surface as possible leaving me room to cut the bars and still have enough room for controls, handgaurds, ect.
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nofearccracer
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2/3/2023 10:18am
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/18/564509/s1200_A34F7547_290D_4E2B_A075_FA4EB10CD3C8.jpg[/img]
I’m in absolute love with these ACF bars. Legit! I cut .75” off each side no problems.

What method did you use to cut them?

 

Also curious is anyone has ignored the other part of the warning and installed full wrap handguards inside them? It seems pretty obvious then when the mounts are tightened it will damage the carbon inside but are there any bad side effects from that besides possibly weakening that area of the bar and making it more susceptible to bending?

Jrey2
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2/3/2023 8:18pm
What method did you use to cut them?   Also curious is anyone has ignored the other part of the warning and installed full wrap handguards...

What method did you use to cut them?

 

Also curious is anyone has ignored the other part of the warning and installed full wrap handguards inside them? It seems pretty obvious then when the mounts are tightened it will damage the carbon inside but are there any bad side effects from that besides possibly weakening that area of the bar and making it more susceptible to bending?

Compromising the last inch of the bar means nothing. Do it! 

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