Talent or Factory Parts

TXDirt
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TXDirt
All this talk about factory motors, parts, titanium, etc etc.

Make no mistake….

TALENT is what gets you in the top 10. No special motor or special parts.

If you are in the top 10 you likely have access to just about everything for free or near free. Bikes, motors, suspension.

Special parts does not overcome TALENT.

You either got it or you don’t. And if you are top ten talent you are pretty well taken care of.

Change my mind….
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H4L
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H4L 8/7/2022 9:57am
8/7/2022 9:57am
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
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wide open wally 8/7/2022 9:58am
8/7/2022 9:58am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
I 100% do.
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 8/7/2022 10:00am
8/7/2022 10:00am
It may be 90% rider but when the riders are all really good that last 10% matters.
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H4L
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H4L 8/7/2022 10:03am
8/7/2022 10:03am
KurtJ99 wrote:
It may be 90% rider but when the riders are all really good that last 10% matters.
Agree..
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Brad460
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Brad460 8/7/2022 10:05am
8/7/2022 10:05am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
wide open wally wrote:
I 100% do.
ET or Sexton could beat most anyone else on a RMZ450, but would be at a disadvantage against each other riding one..
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Dirt.Squirt
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Dirt.Squirt 8/7/2022 10:17am
8/7/2022 10:17am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
Maybe not but they would both still be in the top 5
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H4L
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H4L 8/7/2022 10:17am
8/7/2022 10:17am
Brad460 wrote:
ET or Sexton could beat most anyone else on a RMZ450, but would be at a disadvantage against each other riding one..
I was thinking maybe not the top 5 like DF, JA & RD..
H4L
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H4L 8/7/2022 10:19am
8/7/2022 10:19am
Dirt.Squirt wrote:
Maybe not but they would both still be in the top 5
Yup. You beat me to it by a few seconds..
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 8/7/2022 10:25am
8/7/2022 10:25am
Imo... in moto... rider = 90%... bike = 10%...

Look at the dude a few years ago competitively racing an 80s CR at the ranch....
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kripple428
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kripple428 8/7/2022 10:32am
8/7/2022 10:32am
gt80rider wrote:
Imo... in moto... rider = 90%... bike = 10%...

Look at the dude a few years ago competitively racing an 80s CR at the ranch....
That wasn’t just “some dude” in either case the first one was Jerry Robin and the second was Ryan Hughes both of which are better riders than 90-95% of the population
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blockhead17
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blockhead17 8/7/2022 10:42am
8/7/2022 10:42am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
If Eli has Gilly with him, no problemo!!
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Boomslang 8/7/2022 10:42am
8/7/2022 10:42am
Stanton once said that his fitness made up for his lack of talent.
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Thisusernameisavailable 8/7/2022 10:50am
8/7/2022 10:50am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
An RMZ450 with factory assistance- yes.

You should’ve asked- do you think ET3 or CS23 could beat each other if they were on a stock bike?
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Juck
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Juck 8/7/2022 10:56am
8/7/2022 10:56am
These comments are so annoying. No one is saying that if you put factory parts on a bike then it will ride itself. But a factory bike is going to be way better than a stock one, if you take like a 5th-10th place 250 pro and get him to do laps on a stock bike and then on a factory bike on a track with a 2 minute lap time (think like the average national track, not a tight track) I'd say his lap times would probably be 4-5 seconds faster. You can disagree if you like but even if it's only 2 seconds that difference at that level is huge.

Yeah a c rider on a 2006 YZ250f won't become a national championship contender if you put him on a factory bike, no shit. No one is saying that would happen.
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Tumic
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Tumic 8/7/2022 11:20am
8/7/2022 11:20am
A good suspension can be a couple of seconds a lap better.

A race engine often just help at the start. You can turn plenty fast laptimes on a stock engine, but the race engine can back you up more if you make a misstake and fall off the RPM a little.

The thing for me when it comes to amateur racing is that it should be on stock bikes with a exhaust and re-valved stock suspension for a more level play-feild.

The fastest guys will always come out top, but some familys might have a better chance to make it if they don’t have to put up a 3rd or 4th mortage on their homes to go racing.

We all know how moto dad works, if another kid on the gate have a race engine and kit suspension, they will buy it for their kids to and the hamster wheel spins on.

Nothing good have ever come out from tuning in amateur/youth classes. Prove me wrong..
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 8/7/2022 11:23am
8/7/2022 11:23am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
An RMZ450 with factory assistance- yes.

You should’ve asked- do you think ET3 or CS23 could beat each other if they were on a stock bike?
No, I don't think ET3 on a factory Suzuki is the same as ET3 on a factory Yamaha (or a factory Kawi).
At that razor's edge of performance THE bike, setup, and people around him matter.

Even on the 2023 supercross contract extension ET3 took his time to understand what the bike will be like for next year.
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Thisusernameisavailable 8/7/2022 11:31am
8/7/2022 11:31am
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
An RMZ450 with factory assistance- yes.

You should’ve asked- do you think ET3 or CS23 could beat each other if they were on a stock bike?
KurtJ99 wrote:
No, I don't think ET3 on a factory Suzuki is the same as ET3 on a factory Yamaha (or a factory Kawi). At that razor's edge...
No, I don't think ET3 on a factory Suzuki is the same as ET3 on a factory Yamaha (or a factory Kawi).
At that razor's edge of performance THE bike, setup, and people around him matter.

Even on the 2023 supercross contract extension ET3 took his time to understand what the bike will be like for next year.
Let’s be honest, ET on a Honda was a race winner.
ET on a Kawasaki was a race winner.
ET on a Yamaha is a race winner.

Is it realistic that we could say “ET on a (enter brand here) would not win?

Don’t base your thoughts on what you currently see from Suzuki. If Suzuki wanted to field a factory team, their team and bike would be as good as any of them. And ET would be the same winner on it.
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dv12.com
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dv12.com 8/7/2022 2:36pm
8/7/2022 2:36pm
TXDirt wrote:
All this talk about factory motors, parts, titanium, etc etc. Make no mistake…. TALENT is what gets you in the top 10. No special motor or...
All this talk about factory motors, parts, titanium, etc etc.

Make no mistake….

TALENT is what gets you in the top 10. No special motor or special parts.

If you are in the top 10 you likely have access to just about everything for free or near free. Bikes, motors, suspension.

Special parts does not overcome TALENT.

You either got it or you don’t. And if you are top ten talent you are pretty well taken care of.

Change my mind….
Work > Talent or Factory Parts
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zehn
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zehn 8/7/2022 2:59pm
8/7/2022 2:59pm
Circular logic, if you’re top 10 you have the good stuff but you don’t need good stuff to be top 10 but if you are…
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crusty_xx 8/7/2022 3:04pm
8/7/2022 3:04pm
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
Not sure about beating one another seeing as how close they are now but they sure as hell would continue to beat the rest of the field. Or do you think Craig and the rest would be battling with 2016 Kenny?
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Mr. Ted
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Mr. Ted 8/7/2022 3:25pm
8/7/2022 3:25pm
What about hard work? How much can work replace talent? 10%, 15%, etc...
H4L
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H4L 8/7/2022 4:39pm
8/7/2022 4:39pm
crusty_xx wrote:
Not sure about beating one another seeing as how close they are now but they sure as hell would continue to beat the rest of the...
Not sure about beating one another seeing as how close they are now but they sure as hell would continue to beat the rest of the field. Or do you think Craig and the rest would be battling with 2016 Kenny?
IMHO I believe most of the factory bikes have gotten better from 2016. A better comparison would be ET3 in 2015 vs. 2016 KR94.
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wide open wally 8/7/2022 5:01pm
8/7/2022 5:01pm
A full factory Suzuki with ET or Sexton on it would be just fine. People forget how good these guys really are, yes the bike plays a factor at their elite level, but most factory bikes are just putting power in the right places, not speeding them up, short of a electric start what doesn’t the Suzuki have? It was always ahead of its competition in handling and rider comfort, you don’t think Eli or Chase could go that fast on one you done bumped your heads.
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 8/7/2022 5:10pm
8/7/2022 5:10pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
What about hard work? How much can work replace talent? 10%, 15%, etc...
Feels like it’s about work. I consider Justin Hill very talented, but others seem to put the work in to make more of their talent.
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T-Fish
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T-Fish 8/7/2022 5:22pm
8/7/2022 5:22pm
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
wide open wally wrote:
I 100% do.
Brad460 wrote:
ET or Sexton could beat most anyone else on a RMZ450, but would be at a disadvantage against each other riding one..
Maybe one of them would gel better with the Suzuki than they do their Honda or Yamaha...
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ThePizzaCobra
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ThePizzaCobra 8/7/2022 5:24pm
8/7/2022 5:24pm
H4L wrote:
Do you think ET3 or CS23 can beat one another if one of them was on a RMZ450 ?
It would have mattered a couple weeks ago when they both tipped over and stalled in the same corner. Whomever is on the yellow bike in the scenario would not have won the race.
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kripple428
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kripple428 8/7/2022 5:32pm
8/7/2022 5:32pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
What about hard work? How much can work replace talent? 10%, 15%, etc...
I believe Talent matters 0 percent if you are willing to put in the work. Anybody can become great at something if they really want it. Look at Carmichael that dude had very little natural talent on a bike. But his work ethic was insane and he would rather die than get beat so he worked his ass off and became the greatest of all time. Look at MJ he got cut from his sophomore varsity team and that lit a fire under his ass he didn’t have natural talent either because he was going to outwork EVERYBODY no matter how gnarly it was and he went on to become the greatest basketball player of all time by a long shot. You can have all the talent in the world but without the work ethic it takes to be at the top you won’t make it on the flip side you can have little to no talent but willing to bust your ass and out work everyone day in and day out and you can make up for that lack of talent.
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Sully
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Sully 8/7/2022 5:37pm
8/7/2022 5:37pm
Toshiki Tomita spent five years in the US riding factory HRC bikes, and was about 50/50 on cracking the top 20 (his best finish was a 10th at Unadilla in '18). A good bike helps, but it doesn't trump talent & hard work.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 8/7/2022 6:00pm
8/7/2022 6:00pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
What about hard work? How much can work replace talent? 10%, 15%, etc...
kripple428 wrote:
I believe Talent matters 0 percent if you are willing to put in the work. Anybody can become great at something if they really want it...
I believe Talent matters 0 percent if you are willing to put in the work. Anybody can become great at something if they really want it. Look at Carmichael that dude had very little natural talent on a bike. But his work ethic was insane and he would rather die than get beat so he worked his ass off and became the greatest of all time. Look at MJ he got cut from his sophomore varsity team and that lit a fire under his ass he didn’t have natural talent either because he was going to outwork EVERYBODY no matter how gnarly it was and he went on to become the greatest basketball player of all time by a long shot. You can have all the talent in the world but without the work ethic it takes to be at the top you won’t make it on the flip side you can have little to no talent but willing to bust your ass and out work everyone day in and day out and you can make up for that lack of talent.
The best rider to ever throw a leg over a dirt bike had “very little natural talent”????

Are you high?

He was a prodigy at like 9 years old.

Yes, his hard work obviously allowed him to excel and attain level talent takes you.

But make no mistake. He was obviously gifted and talented. I know. I raced against him for years on minis. He’s talented. Beyond any possible measure.
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kripple428
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kripple428 8/7/2022 6:22pm
8/7/2022 6:22pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
What about hard work? How much can work replace talent? 10%, 15%, etc...
kripple428 wrote:
I believe Talent matters 0 percent if you are willing to put in the work. Anybody can become great at something if they really want it...
I believe Talent matters 0 percent if you are willing to put in the work. Anybody can become great at something if they really want it. Look at Carmichael that dude had very little natural talent on a bike. But his work ethic was insane and he would rather die than get beat so he worked his ass off and became the greatest of all time. Look at MJ he got cut from his sophomore varsity team and that lit a fire under his ass he didn’t have natural talent either because he was going to outwork EVERYBODY no matter how gnarly it was and he went on to become the greatest basketball player of all time by a long shot. You can have all the talent in the world but without the work ethic it takes to be at the top you won’t make it on the flip side you can have little to no talent but willing to bust your ass and out work everyone day in and day out and you can make up for that lack of talent.
TXDirt wrote:
The best rider to ever throw a leg over a dirt bike had “very little natural talent”???? Are you high? He was a prodigy at like...
The best rider to ever throw a leg over a dirt bike had “very little natural talent”????

Are you high?

He was a prodigy at like 9 years old.

Yes, his hard work obviously allowed him to excel and attain level talent takes you.

But make no mistake. He was obviously gifted and talented. I know. I raced against him for years on minis. He’s talented. Beyond any possible measure.
He was at prodigy at 9 years old because he was out putting in motos day in and day out while his mom screamed at him and made him work sections over and over and over again. Anyone that was putting in the work he was could have been on his level but there are very very few people on the planet willing to put themselves through that much torture no matter how bad they say they want it they don’t want it like that. He had less natural talent thank you think. Dude just worked his ass off.
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