MORE BAD NEWS

pitbike502
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4509
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12/26/2007
Location
Syracuse, NY, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 4:24pm
This was posted on our district site, the letter is from Greg Robinson, Owner of Unadilla...

Good Afternoon...forget the good, as our country has descended into lunacy.

I have spent most of the day on two conference calls relative to the subject line above, and I must say I am rather concerned about the fate of our sport and industry. Not to mention our local communities for the further loss of jobs and $$ that our industry brings in each year. It is certainly that dire..believe me.

As of yesterday, all the OEMs had to pull for sale all new youth minicycles and atvs for those under the age of 13...this under order of the CPSC due to lead content of plastics and certain metals. As of yesterday, a dealer or private individual can no longer provide parts or service, to these affected machines, in which there is a possibility that those same parts may contain lead...no oil changes, plastic, levers, engine cases, etc, etc..goggles, helmets, clothing, knee braces..you name it. You may think that is just for new machines, but it is for everything new and used.

The CPSC also ruled that machines under 85cc are considered toxic to the health of young children.

Effective yesterday, Honda has pulled replacement parts from their service system for these machines pending lead certification...this takes 400 days. KTM, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha are doing the same thing. If you have a 1,2,3 year old machine, you won't be able to buy most parts for it very soon.

Yamaha is sending out restrictions to its dealers saying that an 85cc bike can only be sold, and should only be operated by someone over the age of 13.

Now to the fun part for us as a race promoter.

Because the manufacturers are now issuing these guidelines, we as promoters cannot allow a youth under the age of 13 to participate for two reasons.
We are allowing someone to participate in a sanctioned activity on a vehicle that has been determined by the manufacturer and the CPSC to be unsafe for that age level.
We are allowing someone to participate in a sanctioned activity on a vehicle that the CPSC has determined is a toxic substance.
If you think I am joking, consider the following
MX Sports is considering removing youth classes from the Loretta Lynn's program, GNCC, and ATV Nationals...we run all three of these series and I can tell you that these classes make up over 1/3 of our entries and more than half of our attendance.
The AMA will be forced to ban youths under 13 from any AMA amateur or pro competition due to legal ramifications. The same will apply to local districts and sanctioning bodies, as insurance will not be available to cover this exposure.
The lifeblood of our sport are these kids..if they cannot participate, they will find something else to do, and we will not get them back. They will not race, watch, or buy products. That means Mom, Dad and older brothers/sisters won't be there either.
Unadilla would most likely not participate in any form of amateur racing..with only half or less of the entries left, it wouldn't be financially possible.
DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION YET!

There are two efforts going on right now to get a temporary stay granted by the CPSC for "Off Road Vehicles." The MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) and Missouri State House Rep Mike Sense(#4 in line in the MO st govt) are both developing grass roots letter campaigns through websites to develop a ground swell of support for this stay. Keep in mind this is only temporary, and unless a Federal injunction or legislation is developed, this isn't going away.

There are several opinions floating around on this subject saying that our thinking is flawed and that only the sale of new units is affected...if that is the case, why are helmet, goggle, sneakers, sunglasses, OEM parts and accessories, and dealer service being pulled for these units???

I will leave you with this..if indeed this is overblown, and we are right that we shouldn't be affected by this, it still doesn't mean that we can't/won't be sued by someone using this logic, and worse yet, convince a jury that the above is true. If it gets that far, you will have spent nearly a million $$ in your own defense, just to prove you were right all along.

IS IT WORTH THAT TO YOU?

I will get you info on the two websites, and I encourage you to beg everyone you know that rides, owns, promotes, or attends an off road sporting event to get everyone they know in the same manner to fill out one of these letters...Every Mom Dad and Kid should individually enter their name. Then they should contact their local representatives too.

Thanks for listening, and please do not think you can't make a difference..contact your local representatives as well..explain the economic impact this will have..educate yourself on this subject as quickly as you can.

Greg Robinson
VP Marketing
Unadillla Motorsports
(c) 315-725-9537
greg@unadillamx.com
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gar47mx
Posts
269
Joined
8/16/2008
Location
Syracuse, NY, USA
2/12/2009 9:35am
oh snap...NO DILLA NOOOOOOOOOO
gar47mx
Posts
269
Joined
8/16/2008
Location
Syracuse, NY, USA
2/12/2009 9:53am
shock has began to set in and I have bagan to have cold sweats and the shakes....
NO UNADILLA AM DAYS??? This is bad news for sure

Unadilla is my holy ground. I live for that weekend of bar banging and beer drinking with all my moto buds. Have not missed a dilla since 92 when AM's were finally allowed to grace there tires and bikes on the famed Unadilla soil for the first time in history of Unadilla. Man I'm bumming today
Moto East Mag
Posts
3462
Joined
9/4/2006
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
2/12/2009 9:55am
This clustermunch is turning into a total nightmare.
Since when did Congress go around snuffing industries with a stroke of the pen?
I hope the AMA is down there taking names...this is ridiculous.

The Shop

RNagy052
Posts
768
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Bryceville, FL, USA
2/12/2009 10:20am
This clustermunch is turning into a total nightmare. Since when did Congress go around snuffing industries with a stroke of the pen? I hope the AMA...
This clustermunch is turning into a total nightmare.
Since when did Congress go around snuffing industries with a stroke of the pen?
I hope the AMA is down there taking names...this is ridiculous.
Where was the AMA to begin with? It is a lot easier to prevent a law before it goes into effect, than it is to get it rescinded.

I bet this is not even on our elected officals radar screen with all of the the shit they are dealing with up their in DC. Yea, I sent the e-mail from the site that was linked in the other post, but I don't have any faith it will do anything.
jbomx363
Posts
2008
Joined
9/4/2007
Location
Denham Springs, LA, USA
2/12/2009 10:23am
Considering this was done Aug. 14th of 2008, I'd say thanks AMA and all the others who tanked on this.
Sledneck
Posts
1201
Joined
1/23/2009
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO, USA
2/12/2009 10:55am
Save us from ourselves. I'm going to wash some parts in leaded C-14 just for old times sake.

Nobody died from all these years of nibbling on CR 80 frame paint chips.

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
USA
2/12/2009 10:57am
This is the silliest thing I ever saw. Enforcement of this act was delayed for one year for starters, and there is a specific exclusion for products that are inaccessible or are unlikely to be inserted into the child's mouth. It's in section 101 (b). It's clear that there is no reason whatsoever to stop selling minibikes. As far as parts go, the parts aren't sold to children under 12 and are not childrens' products so the act doesn't have anything to do with those either. This is a perfect example of the depth of ineptitude in our industry. It's like people in the motorcycle industry can't even read. I'd like to know who started all this nonsense - they should be fired. I strongly suspect the AMA being the ones who went all nuclear over it - I know they issued a press release and a copy of a letter to Congress that looks like it was written by a 10 year old. Anyone who joins that organization is an imbecile - I wouldn't give those people one dime of my money.

This act was done last August in response to Chinese lead paint on toys - it was never meant to cover minibikes or other toys that can't be put into a child's mouth, and there are plenty of exclusions that cover those kinds of cases.
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
2/12/2009 11:12am
WhKnuckle wrote:
This is the silliest thing I ever saw. Enforcement of this act was delayed for one year for starters, and there is a specific exclusion for...
This is the silliest thing I ever saw. Enforcement of this act was delayed for one year for starters, and there is a specific exclusion for products that are inaccessible or are unlikely to be inserted into the child's mouth. It's in section 101 (b). It's clear that there is no reason whatsoever to stop selling minibikes. As far as parts go, the parts aren't sold to children under 12 and are not childrens' products so the act doesn't have anything to do with those either. This is a perfect example of the depth of ineptitude in our industry. It's like people in the motorcycle industry can't even read. I'd like to know who started all this nonsense - they should be fired. I strongly suspect the AMA being the ones who went all nuclear over it - I know they issued a press release and a copy of a letter to Congress that looks like it was written by a 10 year old. Anyone who joins that organization is an imbecile - I wouldn't give those people one dime of my money.

This act was done last August in response to Chinese lead paint on toys - it was never meant to cover minibikes or other toys that can't be put into a child's mouth, and there are plenty of exclusions that cover those kinds of cases.
You do have to wonder why we never heard anything about this until it was too late. maybe the AMA should stop sending us their $10 shitty magazine and use somewhere helpful.
rallendude
Posts
2203
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Adger, AL, USA
2/12/2009 11:14am
I know it's up to lawyers and politicians but the way the Act reads to me, there is an exemption in place that would give a pass to motorcycle manufacturers. The Act specifically states that if there's no reasonable risk of injestion or absorbtion through the skin with forseeable use and abuse by a child.

I don't see any way under 'forseeable use and abuse" a child could injest lead or absorb lead into their bloodstream from parts on a motorcycle.

Should the mfgs take the stance of " we are exempt" instead of "lets see if we can get an exemption?"
SteveS
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5598
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8/16/2006
Location
USA
2/12/2009 11:15am
OK, Knuck, tell the lawyers at Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and KTM that.
SteveS
Posts
5598
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
USA
2/12/2009 11:16am
rallendude wrote:
I know it's up to lawyers and politicians but the way the Act reads to me, there is an exemption in place that would give a...
I know it's up to lawyers and politicians but the way the Act reads to me, there is an exemption in place that would give a pass to motorcycle manufacturers. The Act specifically states that if there's no reasonable risk of injestion or absorbtion through the skin with forseeable use and abuse by a child.

I don't see any way under 'forseeable use and abuse" a child could injest lead or absorb lead into their bloodstream from parts on a motorcycle.

Should the mfgs take the stance of " we are exempt" instead of "lets see if we can get an exemption?"
Considering the severe penalty for being on the wrong side of this, they are wanting it from the horse's mouth (and that doesn't mean knuck)
jbomx363
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2008
Joined
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Location
Denham Springs, LA, USA
2/12/2009 12:28pm
I think the OP's doomsday approach is too much over the top. I believe most of us can read.

And it's manufacturers and distributors, not private individuals.

Ebay will be busy with parts buyers until this is resolved or a better look is taken at the Act.


flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
2/12/2009 12:32pm
jbomx363 wrote:
I think the OP's doomsday approach is too much over the top. I believe most of us can read. And it's manufacturers and distributors, not private...
I think the OP's doomsday approach is too much over the top. I believe most of us can read.

And it's manufacturers and distributors, not private individuals.

Ebay will be busy with parts buyers until this is resolved or a better look is taken at the Act.


I agree
I also think while this thing is all a mess and needs fixing, there is a lot of misinformation and overreaction going on.
I also tend to think there's a fair amount of public manipulation in the works in order to whip up the masses and spur action.
Farva
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2045
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Location
USA
2/12/2009 12:34pm
Obama said change was coming...
flarider
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25496
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
2/12/2009 12:36pm
Farva wrote:
Obama said change was coming...
Bush signed this into law
Farva
Posts
2045
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
2/12/2009 12:38pm
Farva wrote:
Obama said change was coming...
flarider wrote:
Bush signed this into law
what has Obama done to correct it?
racer-95
Posts
14
Joined
2/12/2009
Location
Shelby, NC, USA
2/12/2009 12:45pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Considering this was done Aug. 14th of 2008, I'd say thanks AMA and all the others who tanked on this.
Yeah, the clothing industry/ toy industry/ alot of small business associations/ WAHM's organizations/ ETSY and even EBAY have been working on this for months, glad the AMA came out of hiding to help us.
The new laws are beyond ridiculous, and the limits prior to this were far below what would be lethal/dangerous. Plus how many 12yo's do you know that eat their clothes/toys etc. It would be different if they made it for 3 and under where there is some probability of them mouthing/ingesting clothing/toys.

From the CPSC site:
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission voted unanimously (2-0) to issue a one year stay of enforcement for certain testing and certification requirements for manufacturers and importers of regulated products, including products intended for children 12 years old and younger. These requirements are part of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA), which added certification and testing requirements for all products subject to CPSC standards or bans

now while this doesn't help us because it doesn't offer a stay on compliance, just on testing. Please note that the CPSC is a commission of TWO---does anyone know who these two are? I would say that we lobbyist targeting them.

And can anyone tell me why the motorcycle industry is just now starting to work on complying with the law, if they needed 400 day lead time to get their parts in compliance why didn't they start in AUGUST, they have already used up over 175 days.
racer-95
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14
Joined
2/12/2009
Location
Shelby, NC, USA
2/12/2009 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:28pm
jbomx363 wrote:
I think the OP's doomsday approach is too much over the top. I believe most of us can read. And it's manufacturers and distributors, not private...
I think the OP's doomsday approach is too much over the top. I believe most of us can read.

And it's manufacturers and distributors, not private individuals.

Ebay will be busy with parts buyers until this is resolved or a better look is taken at the Act.


The starting fine for violating the CPSIA is $100k and the CPSC has been given over 100M for enforcement of the law, you taking your stuff to ebay?Directly from the CPSC site:


Question 14: I run a small shop that sells new and used clothes, jewelry, shoes and toys for children. Do I need to test the products I sell?

No, you are not required to test. However, retailers and resellers (including those who sell on auction Web sites) cannot knowingly sell children’s products that do not meet the requirements of the law. You can protect yourself by screening for violative products. But more importantly, as a business person, you do not want to be selling products that have the potential to cause harm to anyone, especially a child. Sellers should avoid products likely to have lead, phthalates, or do not meet mandatory toy standards (see Table C for a general guide to commonly sold goods).

It is now against the law to sell a recalled product. Remember to check the list of recalled products on the CPSC web site as a number of children’s products have been recalled.
Moto East Mag
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3462
Joined
9/4/2006
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
2/12/2009 1:20pm
aha...this whole situation is a clear as a goggle lens after a pass through a West Virginia mud bog.

Would they seriously not check out the exemption before hauling product out of the dealers?
Or are they playing it safe to avoid possible fines.
jbomx363
Posts
2008
Joined
9/4/2007
Location
Denham Springs, LA, USA
2/12/2009 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2009 1:27pm
These products are not recalled items.



The ACT takes place in 2008, how does that affect goods manufactured and sold from 2000?



Is it considered a banned item, because testing wasn't done in 2000?



When are they going to start arresting me for allowing my child to "play" with his YZ85?



The exemptions read plainly enough for me to use it as a defense and I'd have no problems selling my old yz85, or parts on ebay. I'd probably also use the "spirit of the law" defense that so many use successfully.

But hey... I'm no lawyer either.
racer-95
Posts
14
Joined
2/12/2009
Location
Shelby, NC, USA
2/12/2009 1:31pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
This is the silliest thing I ever saw. Enforcement of this act was delayed for one year for starters, and there is a specific exclusion for...
This is the silliest thing I ever saw. Enforcement of this act was delayed for one year for starters, and there is a specific exclusion for products that are inaccessible or are unlikely to be inserted into the child's mouth. It's in section 101 (b). It's clear that there is no reason whatsoever to stop selling minibikes. As far as parts go, the parts aren't sold to children under 12 and are not childrens' products so the act doesn't have anything to do with those either. This is a perfect example of the depth of ineptitude in our industry. It's like people in the motorcycle industry can't even read. I'd like to know who started all this nonsense - they should be fired. I strongly suspect the AMA being the ones who went all nuclear over it - I know they issued a press release and a copy of a letter to Congress that looks like it was written by a 10 year old. Anyone who joins that organization is an imbecile - I wouldn't give those people one dime of my money.

This act was done last August in response to Chinese lead paint on toys - it was never meant to cover minibikes or other toys that can't be put into a child's mouth, and there are plenty of exclusions that cover those kinds of cases.
Enforcement was not delayed, just certification requirements. As a matter of fact in the announcement about the delay it specifically says compliance is REQUIRED

from the CPSC site
Sellers will not be immune from prosecution if CPSC’s Office of Compliance finds that someone had actual knowledge that one of these children’s products contained more than 600 ppm lead or continued to make, import, distribute or sell such a product after being put on notice. Agency staff will seek recalls of violative children’s products or other corrective actions, where appropriate.

This tells me minicycles are included:
The lead limits in the CPSIA only apply to products intended or designed primarily for children 12 and under. The lead limits apply only to those bikes which by nature of their size, design or other similar factors indicate that they are intended or designed primarily for children. Thus, a bike with a 24” wheel size or smaller would generally be considered a children’s bike and would need to comply.

Quote: and there is a specific exclusion for products that are inaccessible or are unlikely to be inserted into the child's mouth--
The exclusion doesn't say unlikely it says NOT ACCESSIBLE, that means not able to be reached at all by finger or mouth, not hard to reach/unlikely to be tasted.

From the cpsc:
Components that are not accessible, that is cannot be reached by a small child’s finger or tongue. Paint and other coatings or electroplating are not considered barriers that make a component inaccessible.

Motodude
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5320
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2/2/2008
Location
Sydney, AU
2/12/2009 1:35pm
Enter E-minibikes....
racer-95
Posts
14
Joined
2/12/2009
Location
Shelby, NC, USA
2/12/2009 1:43pm
jbomx363 wrote:
These products are not recalled items. The ACT takes place in 2008, how does that affect goods manufactured and sold from 2000? Is it considered a...
These products are not recalled items.



The ACT takes place in 2008, how does that affect goods manufactured and sold from 2000?



Is it considered a banned item, because testing wasn't done in 2000?



When are they going to start arresting me for allowing my child to "play" with his YZ85?



The exemptions read plainly enough for me to use it as a defense and I'd have no problems selling my old yz85, or parts on ebay. I'd probably also use the "spirit of the law" defense that so many use successfully.

But hey... I'm no lawyer either.
You bring up good points, BUT the way the law is written it is retroactive. So something manufactured before still has to comply to be sold, not used, but sold. Even by a reseller. This is part of the problem with the law.

Selling your used stuff still probably won't get you into trouble, but selling new stuff would. Especially stuff that is in the suspect category and that the manufacturer is saying isn't compliant. So ebay probably isn't going to be full of people selling new parts to fix your bike and the dealer can't sell them, unless they are in compliance(which the manufacturer pulling them is a STRONG hint that they aren't).

jbomx363
Posts
2008
Joined
9/4/2007
Location
Denham Springs, LA, USA
2/12/2009 1:57pm
It's basically going to be pretty non enforceable at the private seller level unless a complaint is made and/or ebay polices their own site for non-compliant merchandise. I can't see that happening though.

Sure, it's doubtful people will knowingly take the risk with such a high penalty. However, I foresee this being rescinded or exemptions put in place before they hire enough people to police the net.

How many unknowing people would get caught up in this as resellers, etc. etc.? I also doubt the gov't is going to be hunting down individuals, but stranger things have happened.. like this terribly written law.

Where are all the lead poisoned people this affected? The hospitals should be overflowing with lead poisoning victims all these years.
Crash82
Posts
9022
Joined
9/16/2006
Location
MONTGOMERY, AL, USA
2/12/2009 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2009 2:16pm
Not trying to be a smartie pants but if the kids put gas in their mouths it would be unsafe, so how can making sure there is no lead fix anything? There's still that unsafe gas they could possbly drink. Wow. I should buy up a bunch of KTM minis and part them out on ebay........
mosslander
Posts
736
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2/1/2009
Location
Travad, SE
2/12/2009 2:19pm
Bring the politcians in to the frensh giliontine and then play soccer with there heads.
Moto East Mag
Posts
3462
Joined
9/4/2006
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
2/12/2009 2:31pm
The CPSC are pretty tight with enforcement- I am familiar with the "knowledge" thing. When I sold bikes they told us they would be coming in posing as buyers to try and get us to sell ATVs to kids.
One guy wanted to punch me when I told him I couldn't sell it to him because it was for his kid. He said "well, it's for me then." I was like "sorry, you already told me it was for him, and I have knowledge a kid will be riding it."
He couldn't believe it.

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