Has KTM changed the game?

dcg141
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Edited Date/Time 2/6/2012 6:37pm
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that going forward KTM becomes a player in any new contract negoiations for top riders? Suzuki offically got out of the offroad business this year with teams and bikes. Is motocross far behind?
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Sherwood
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2/6/2012 11:47am
dcg141 wrote:
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that...
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that going forward KTM becomes a player in any new contract negoiations for top riders? Suzuki offically got out of the offroad business this year with teams and bikes. Is motocross far behind?
They'll unfortunately need to win more in America before people stop thinking it was simply a lucky win.

The GP crowd screaming world domination after a win in America sure ran away fast.
RaceFace
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2/6/2012 11:57am
The title is changed the game, which they have not done. They've joined the game for sure. They will be a player for big names in coming years. The jury will still be out until Dungey's results over 2 years are seen, but the money is pretty damn good. Will KTM re-sign Dungey in 2 years? Will Dungey leave them in 2 years? Does he win any titles for them in these 2 years? What if Dungey only manages a 4th in points outdoors this year? The answers to these questions will dictate how quickly the whole paddock accepts KTM in the 450 class as a viable choice. Then again, they may just have Roczen or Musquin as a lifelong rider and one of the best out there in coming years.
dcg141
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2/6/2012 12:05pm
RaceFace wrote:
The title is changed the game, which they have not done. They've joined the game for sure. They will be a player for big names in...
The title is changed the game, which they have not done. They've joined the game for sure. They will be a player for big names in coming years. The jury will still be out until Dungey's results over 2 years are seen, but the money is pretty damn good. Will KTM re-sign Dungey in 2 years? Will Dungey leave them in 2 years? Does he win any titles for them in these 2 years? What if Dungey only manages a 4th in points outdoors this year? The answers to these questions will dictate how quickly the whole paddock accepts KTM in the 450 class as a viable choice. Then again, they may just have Roczen or Musquin as a lifelong rider and one of the best out there in coming years.
You are correct about my thread title. A better one would be have they crossed a threshold?
Sherwood
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2/6/2012 12:08pm
As Mitch Payton said, "We need KTM."

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Bellone
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2/6/2012 12:09pm
KTM is holding RD5 back right now.
dcg141
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2/6/2012 12:16pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2012 1:07pm
Bellone wrote:
KTM is holding RD5 back right now.
Last year he went 2/3/3/3 thru the first 4 rounds.. I'm not seeing how its holding him back.
mccread
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2/6/2012 12:21pm
dcg141 wrote:
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that...
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that going forward KTM becomes a player in any new contract negoiations for top riders? Suzuki offically got out of the offroad business this year with teams and bikes. Is motocross far behind?
I presume you're just talking about supercross in the US in the 450 class?


KTM have been a player for a while now in the the rest of the world, in both classes in motocross.
newmann
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2/6/2012 12:23pm
Would take someone dumber than a bag of rocks to not appreciate what KTM brings to the sport. Their commitment to the off road and motocross market is second to none. The Japanese brands have been cutting back for years and years now. It is all too funny to listen to the Japanese OEM nut huggers (read Industry Folk)and how they carry on about the previous Big 4's investment in the four stroke market and how they can't "retool" for two strokes.
SpeedyR
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2/6/2012 12:37pm
I don't know if it's a "game changer" but IMHO KTM is definitely a company whos products can win at any level of the sports we play (MX, SX, off road, etc). the past few years there has been talk of the bike with no linkage, and is it a disadvantage in SX/MX. again IMHO it isn't but without having the talent to show what a top rider can do, it's a moot point. IN the past they never had a rider that was capable of winning races. And the riders they did have in some cases blamed the bikes (not that they had anything to blame about their program or riding style).

this year KTM stepped up its game with hiring Decoster and Dungey to go after that top spot on the podium. They succeeded (at least once!), and I think it shows that their program and bikes are very capable of winning at any level in our two wheel endeavors. I think that dungey will win more races, and I think he's a solid rider capable of winning most nights. Same would go for RV, CR and JS. There are maybe one or two other riders out there where if the cards fall right, they could win a race as well, but day in day out if you want to win a race or championship, it's going to be with one of these four riders for now. If you want your product to be in the spotlight and win races or championships, it's going to be with these four.

the advantage with KTM is that they are quick on their feet. if they see something that works, they will put it into production. Most of the japanese big four have maybe 2 off road bikes (vs. MX). KTM has made a killing in market share by having a bike for every rider. Basically about 8-10 off road bikes. 4 or 5 MX/SX bikes, two strokes and four strokes, what do you want/prefer? they have it. I think if the big 4 don't watch what they are doing, KTM is going to start to take more and more market share in MX as well. They are making gains and I don't see them going backwards any time soon. Look at the riders in AX this year, how many are on KTM vs. years past? off road racing has always been dominated by orange, just go look at the starting field at any WORCS or GNCC race. Maybe one day soon you'll see the same thing on the local MX tracks????? Smile
dcg141
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2/6/2012 1:02pm
dcg141 wrote:
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that...
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that going forward KTM becomes a player in any new contract negoiations for top riders? Suzuki offically got out of the offroad business this year with teams and bikes. Is motocross far behind?
mccread wrote:
I presume you're just talking about supercross in the US in the 450 class? KTM have been a player for a while now in the the...
I presume you're just talking about supercross in the US in the 450 class?


KTM have been a player for a while now in the the rest of the world, in both classes in motocross.
Exactly..in fact that really is KTM's last frontier as far as MX goes. Also KTM is gunning for Honda's last stronghold in offroad with a very serious effort in Baja this year.
Eywa
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2/6/2012 1:07pm
dcg141 wrote:
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that...
Its been played by the big 4 for better than 4 decades without anyone else being invited. Has the preception now changed for pro riders that going forward KTM becomes a player in any new contract negoiations for top riders? Suzuki offically got out of the offroad business this year with teams and bikes. Is motocross far behind?
mccread wrote:
I presume you're just talking about supercross in the US in the 450 class? KTM have been a player for a while now in the the...
I presume you're just talking about supercross in the US in the 450 class?


KTM have been a player for a while now in the the rest of the world, in both classes in motocross.
Now if only the rest of the world was a player, they might have something. LOL
burn1986
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2/6/2012 1:14pm
They're just another OEM. It always helps to have another manuf in the sport, but they are having zero impact on the ama, rules, and the payouts. MX and SX will continue to be entertainment with or without KTM. Right now they are the little pups immitating and following around the Big 4 dogs.

Dungey is right where he is regardless of the bike. He finally has some fast guys to race with.
wardy
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2/6/2012 4:04pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2012 4:08pm
newmann wrote:
Would take someone dumber than a bag of rocks to not appreciate what KTM brings to the sport. Their commitment to the off road and motocross...
Would take someone dumber than a bag of rocks to not appreciate what KTM brings to the sport. Their commitment to the off road and motocross market is second to none. The Japanese brands have been cutting back for years and years now. It is all too funny to listen to the Japanese OEM nut huggers (read Industry Folk)and how they carry on about the previous Big 4's investment in the four stroke market and how they can't "retool" for two strokes.
agreed. Funny all these friggin know it alls in here, but our riding park has tons of old 2 stroke bikes, and a boat load of ktm's. I know since i have to pick up all the broken orange plastic. LOL one thing ktm doesn't do well is make good plastic!

but then go ahead and believe the hype! it's all about mx and sx and it's all about the "big" 4. But that means either Kaw or Suz are looking in as number 5.

Smile
nickm
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2/6/2012 4:48pm
They aren't huge in pro mx yet, but if you look at offroad, you are weird if you DON'T ride orange. They have won and still dominate every offroad/hare scamble/enduro/GNCC race everywhere in the world.

Last 3 or 4 years, the vet MX races that I've run in the northeast and Canada are about 75% orange

A couple of weekends ago Dungey had the red plate, so its pretty clear they are as competitive as any of the other brands at the highest level of SX.

So no they haven't changed the game, but they are well on their way to owning it...
OldYZRider1
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2/6/2012 5:00pm
What KTM has shown us is that the winning formula is to have a bike virtually identical to every other manufacturer's. They've got a linkage now with the 450 four stroke and are very competitive and able to draw top talent. Yamaha screwed up their 450 in this respect and are now in the position KTM used to occupy, i.e their bike was very capable but had a different feel to it that some riders could never come to grips with. With the salaries top riders get these days, coupled with their short careers few riders will probably look to go to Yamaha in the future as they used to do with KTM (here in the US anyways).

Unfortunately this also means bike designs are likely to stagnate where they're at. The production rule will probably put a cap on what manufacturer's will do with advanced tech features and their higher costs to buyers. The two strokes been kicked to the curb so all riders will be on virtually identical machines. We as consumers can pick our choice of machine on what color we like best..
bigborefan
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2/6/2012 5:18pm
newmann wrote:
Would take someone dumber than a bag of rocks to not appreciate what KTM brings to the sport. Their commitment to the off road and motocross...
Would take someone dumber than a bag of rocks to not appreciate what KTM brings to the sport. Their commitment to the off road and motocross market is second to none. The Japanese brands have been cutting back for years and years now. It is all too funny to listen to the Japanese OEM nut huggers (read Industry Folk)and how they carry on about the previous Big 4's investment in the four stroke market and how they can't "retool" for two strokes.
+1 newmann,

The Big 4, they got you covered if you want a cookie cutter 450 or 250 4 Stroke, If you don't, than screw you.

Suzuki, they were the big dog in GNCC, first 18 wheeler, awesome bikes, big budget affair. Now they don't even race GNCC.

I don't get all the talk about the sport growing, yada, ,yada, yada, but then KTM comes along, willing to build bikes and spend big money, and everyone just bitches and moans about them. It;s not their made in France for gods sake.

Go to an outdoor national or SX and check out the KTM semi, they ain't play pimpin. They are the new Honda, get over it. Suzuki will soon be like Zundapp, gone but not forgotten.
nickm
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2/6/2012 5:50pm
KTM builds dirt bikes. they don't build cars, they don't buld pianos, they don't build crusiers, they don't build lawn equipment.

You want a 300cc twi stroke offroad bike that's winning everything? they got one
Want a competetive 250 2 stroke, check
want a cookie cutter 450 4 stroke mxer, they got that
want a 500 4 stroke offroader? yep
want a 500 4 stroke offroader that happens to be street legal? got it
50cc, 60 cc 05 cc or 105 mini? did you want big wheel or small wheel cuz they got that too.

I mean shit...just about any combination you think up, you can buy today - so wtf? Why bother with the same old 250/450 and build a shitty enduro bike once every 5 years that the japanese companies have been offering?

I agree they are the new Honda.
RbR
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2/6/2012 6:37pm
For the first time KTM has arrived with a serious bike, management, and legit title condenders ...

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