Equal Displacement Pro Racing.....Has the time come?

resetjet
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resetjet 4/14/2014 4:09pm
4/14/2014 4:09pm
Nice shootout again. Apples to apples. Now what I would like to see is them to somehow build or get a factory two stroke and a factory 4 stroke......You can exploit the power on the 250f to bring it up to where it needs to be. The 2t is already near there. That probably would diminish or erase the start advantage.
machine
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machine 4/14/2014 4:45pm
4/14/2014 4:45pm
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/14/2014 4:48pm
4/14/2014 4:48pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Exactly...so why not allow them as a cheaper alternative for the privateer? The top 20 riders will still be on 4strokes no matter what..
machine
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machine 4/14/2014 4:53pm
4/14/2014 4:53pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Gringoe wrote:
Exactly...so why not allow them as a cheaper alternative for the privateer? The top 20 riders will still be on 4strokes no matter what..
They do offer it in the AMA amateur events and most PRO riders still choose a 4 stroke, so what does that tell you.

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Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/14/2014 5:13pm
4/14/2014 5:13pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Gringoe wrote:
Exactly...so why not allow them as a cheaper alternative for the privateer? The top 20 riders will still be on 4strokes no matter what..
machine wrote:
They do offer it in the AMA amateur events and most PRO riders still choose a 4 stroke, so what does that tell you.
Ok genius, most PRO riders choose 4st in amateur events? First of all that doesn't make any sense because pro riders don't ride amateur races besides local outlaw races (except alessi...). Second of all, the top a riders at Loretta's are either on amateur teams that provide them bikes or are already signed to star geico etc.

So let's talk about where the privateers really race, local money races and the such. I will bet you money that 1 out of every top 3 local pros (the ones that rider 4 or 5 nationals a year because they can't afford any more) around the country have gone back to a 250 two stroke for local races in the 250 class.

So let's recap a little bit, "most pros" choose 4 strokes because they are either A. given to them/on a team or B. I don't know HAVE to ride them because that's the ONLY option for outdoors in the 250 class... (do you want them to ride a 125? Is that fair)?.

So what does THAT tell you, machine?
OW38B
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OW38B 4/14/2014 5:50pm
4/14/2014 5:50pm
BroFoSho wrote:
Don't understand why you race a bike that has an abrupt power curve, is not forgiving if you make a mistake, and has the chance to...
Don't understand why you race a bike that has an abrupt power curve, is not forgiving if you make a mistake, and has the chance to bog and send you over the bars resulting in broken bones.

Four-strokes are much easier to go faster on, hence why a professional will choose a four-stroke over a two-stroke.
OW38B wrote:
Good and valid points Bro. But the AMA and FIM both say you are clueless! They have banned some of the 250cc bikes from their 250cc...
Good and valid points Bro.

But the AMA and FIM both say you are clueless!

They have banned some of the 250cc bikes from their 250cc class. They are both ran by guys who think they are very smart and think a 250F is not competitive with a 250cc 2 stroke. That is the current fact as we speak.
Grizz wrote:
The 250F wasn't even made to be competitive with a 250 two stroke :laugh: It replaced the 125, remember? So the fact that all the pros...
The 250F wasn't even made to be competitive with a 250 two stroke Laughing It replaced the 125, remember? So the fact that all the pros would still pick a 250F over a more powerful 250 two stroke shows how good the four strokes are. The only reason a pro would line up on a two stroke is for the attention or possible sponsorship. Nobody wants to line up knowing you are on a more difficult to handle bike. It's common sense people.
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class.

And Pro's want to line up on a bike that gives them the best chance to win or the best result. Simple as that.
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OW38B 4/14/2014 5:52pm
4/14/2014 5:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2014 5:54pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Hillbilly and Right, don't often collide in the same sentence...Laughing

Machine, if what you say is true, again I ask, why ban them from the 250cc class?
machine
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machine 4/14/2014 6:27pm
4/14/2014 6:27pm
Gringoe wrote:
Exactly...so why not allow them as a cheaper alternative for the privateer? The top 20 riders will still be on 4strokes no matter what..
machine wrote:
They do offer it in the AMA amateur events and most PRO riders still choose a 4 stroke, so what does that tell you.
Gringoe wrote:
Ok genius, most PRO riders choose 4st in amateur events? First of all that doesn't make any sense because pro riders don't ride amateur races besides...
Ok genius, most PRO riders choose 4st in amateur events? First of all that doesn't make any sense because pro riders don't ride amateur races besides local outlaw races (except alessi...). Second of all, the top a riders at Loretta's are either on amateur teams that provide them bikes or are already signed to star geico etc.

So let's talk about where the privateers really race, local money races and the such. I will bet you money that 1 out of every top 3 local pros (the ones that rider 4 or 5 nationals a year because they can't afford any more) around the country have gone back to a 250 two stroke for local races in the 250 class.

So let's recap a little bit, "most pros" choose 4 strokes because they are either A. given to them/on a team or B. I don't know HAVE to ride them because that's the ONLY option for outdoors in the 250 class... (do you want them to ride a 125? Is that fair)?.

So what does THAT tell you, machine?
Well first of all, i'm not going to tell you anything, because you got it in your head that 1 of of 3 privatere racers in the "A" class are on 2 strokes and that simply isn't the case at least around here so dream on...

Secondly, I thought this was about which was the better bike to race, not which bike someone can or cannot afford. Wink
machine
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machine 4/14/2014 6:30pm
4/14/2014 6:30pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
OW38B wrote:
Hillbilly and Right, don't often collide in the same sentence...:laugh: Machine, if what you say is true, again I ask, why ban them from the 250cc...
Hillbilly and Right, don't often collide in the same sentence...Laughing

Machine, if what you say is true, again I ask, why ban them from the 250cc class?
Follow the money ? Smile

I just don't think it would make much of a difference, but that's just my opinion, what do I know.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/14/2014 6:36pm
4/14/2014 6:36pm
machine wrote:
They do offer it in the AMA amateur events and most PRO riders still choose a 4 stroke, so what does that tell you.
Gringoe wrote:
Ok genius, most PRO riders choose 4st in amateur events? First of all that doesn't make any sense because pro riders don't ride amateur races besides...
Ok genius, most PRO riders choose 4st in amateur events? First of all that doesn't make any sense because pro riders don't ride amateur races besides local outlaw races (except alessi...). Second of all, the top a riders at Loretta's are either on amateur teams that provide them bikes or are already signed to star geico etc.

So let's talk about where the privateers really race, local money races and the such. I will bet you money that 1 out of every top 3 local pros (the ones that rider 4 or 5 nationals a year because they can't afford any more) around the country have gone back to a 250 two stroke for local races in the 250 class.

So let's recap a little bit, "most pros" choose 4 strokes because they are either A. given to them/on a team or B. I don't know HAVE to ride them because that's the ONLY option for outdoors in the 250 class... (do you want them to ride a 125? Is that fair)?.

So what does THAT tell you, machine?
machine wrote:
Well first of all, i'm not going to tell you anything, because you got it in your head that 1 of of 3 privatere racers in...
Well first of all, i'm not going to tell you anything, because you got it in your head that 1 of of 3 privatere racers in the "A" class are on 2 strokes and that simply isn't the case at least around here so dream on...

Secondly, I thought this was about which was the better bike to race, not which bike someone can or cannot afford. Wink
No I said 1 in three riders that race outdoors on a 250f as a privateer with minimal budget ride a two stroke at outlaw races. That IS the case in this neck of the woods. We are not talking about loretta lynns.

No, this isn't about which bike is better. Because it is already determined a highly modified 250f is the best racing package for most tracks period.

It's about making it easier for the privateer to race and be competitive, and to possibly bring more excitement and fans o the outdoors.
machine
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machine 4/14/2014 6:40pm
4/14/2014 6:40pm
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
Gringoe wrote:
Exactly...so why not allow them as a cheaper alternative for the privateer? The top 20 riders will still be on 4strokes no matter what..
I have to admit, I was distracted by my girlfriend yappin in my ear when I responded to this and didn't really read it...Grinning

I'm with ya on that...
burn1986
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burn1986 4/14/2014 6:49pm
4/14/2014 6:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2014 7:08pm
Gringoe wrote:
No I said 1 in three riders that race outdoors on a 250f as a privateer with minimal budget ride a two stroke at outlaw races...
No I said 1 in three riders that race outdoors on a 250f as a privateer with minimal budget ride a two stroke at outlaw races. That IS the case in this neck of the woods. We are not talking about loretta lynns.

No, this isn't about which bike is better. Because it is already determined a highly modified 250f is the best racing package for most tracks period.

It's about making it easier for the privateer to race and be competitive, and to possibly bring more excitement and fans o the outdoors.
Exactly. A lot of people are pretty hardheaded and only want to get into an argument over which is better, 2-stroke or 4-stroke. It completely doesn't matter and that's not the point and never has been the point! The point is the cost of racing, the health of the sport, and privateer and local involvement, including younger riders with possible potential for a pro license.

How high is the cost of racing a 250 4-stroke, vs a 250 2-stroke? How has the elimination of the 2-stroke helped the health of the sport? How has it helped privateer and local involvement?
twosmoke30 4/14/2014 6:56pm
4/14/2014 6:56pm
burn1986 wrote:
Exactly. A lot of people are pretty hardheaded and only want to get into an argument over which is better, 2-stroke or 4-stroke. It completely doesn't...
Exactly. A lot of people are pretty hardheaded and only want to get into an argument over which is better, 2-stroke or 4-stroke. It completely doesn't matter and that's not the point and never has been the point! The point is the cost of racing, the health of the sport, and privateer and local involvement, including younger riders with possible potential for a pro license.

How high is the cost of racing a 250 4-stroke, vs a 250 2-stroke? How has the elimination of the 2-stroke helped the health of the sport? How has it helped privateer and local involvement?
^^^this

if it weren't for monster/redbull/rockstar

this sport would be back in the stone ages, with only a handful of guys riding out of a semi and the rest true "privateers" not like the ones they make out the bto/etc riders to be
VET176
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VET176 4/14/2014 11:35pm
4/14/2014 11:35pm
OW38B wrote:
Good and valid points Bro. But the AMA and FIM both say you are clueless! They have banned some of the 250cc bikes from their 250cc...
Good and valid points Bro.

But the AMA and FIM both say you are clueless!

They have banned some of the 250cc bikes from their 250cc class. They are both ran by guys who think they are very smart and think a 250F is not competitive with a 250cc 2 stroke. That is the current fact as we speak.
Grizz wrote:
The 250F wasn't even made to be competitive with a 250 two stroke :laugh: It replaced the 125, remember? So the fact that all the pros...
The 250F wasn't even made to be competitive with a 250 two stroke Laughing It replaced the 125, remember? So the fact that all the pros would still pick a 250F over a more powerful 250 two stroke shows how good the four strokes are. The only reason a pro would line up on a two stroke is for the attention or possible sponsorship. Nobody wants to line up knowing you are on a more difficult to handle bike. It's common sense people.
OW38B wrote:
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class. And Pro's want to line...
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class.

And Pro's want to line up on a bike that gives them the best chance to win or the best result. Simple as that.
OW, just say it mate. We both know why.
resetjet
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resetjet 4/15/2014 5:58am
4/15/2014 5:58am
Not gonna happen. Not because a 2t is better. Because only KTM and HV make one....
Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/15/2014 6:40am
4/15/2014 6:40am
resetjet wrote:
Not gonna happen. Not because a 2t is better. Because only KTM and HV make one....
How many companies sold 4strokes at the time the cc rule was changed?? That's what I thought.


PS you forgot Yamaha
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 4/15/2014 6:47am
4/15/2014 6:47am
Grizz wrote:
That's pretty much what I'm saying. I could go faster on my four-stroke with less effort. So why would I ride a two stroke?
IWreckALot wrote:
I just switched from a 450 to a 250 2t and have gotten faster. Took me about a month of riding to adjust then I started...
I just switched from a 450 to a 250 2t and have gotten faster. Took me about a month of riding to adjust then I started feeling more comfortable on the 2 stroke. I think I was fighting the bike more on the 450. Even though the weight difference isn't huge, it feels huge.

On the topic of allowing cc to cc racing, I'm on board for it. I believe the manufacturers are leaving a big piece of pie on the table by not providing an option to guys who prefer the two stroke. I don't believe it would harm the 4 stroke sales as much as they portray it. I'd be curious to see a revenue impact study showing what they thought a two stroke line would do to a company's bottom line. While the maintenance on a two stroke is cheaper, you have to do it more often.
BobPA wrote:
Are you going by lap times or feel?whenever I hop on a two stroke I feel like a super hero on a bike....
Last season my lap times weren't competitive with the class I'm in now and this season they're in the same ball park. There are flaws with that logic I'll admit but my lap times are faster than the class I raced last year also.

And Grizz, you're right that there are probably more factors than just the bike but I do feel a lot more comfortable on the two stroke and that makes a lot. I don't get to ride very often so I haven't just gotten a lot more seat time on the two stroke.

I can be objective when looking at the 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke. There are advantages to both and my opinion is my opinion. I'm on the side of allowing equal displacement.
burn1986
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burn1986 4/15/2014 7:14am
4/15/2014 7:14am
Look, the 2-stroke is going away. The factories want to push the 4-stroke as much as they can, and make as much money before the US market/sport/economy crashes. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it's their sport not ours.

We can banter all day about the in and outs, but if the factories wanted everyone on a 3-stroke, then everyone would be on a 3-stroke.

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Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/15/2014 7:25am
4/15/2014 7:25am
burn1986 wrote:
Look, the 2-stroke is going away. The factories want to push the 4-stroke as much as they can, and make as much money before the US...
Look, the 2-stroke is going away. The factories want to push the 4-stroke as much as they can, and make as much money before the US market/sport/economy crashes. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it's their sport not ours.

We can banter all day about the in and outs, but if the factories wanted everyone on a 3-stroke, then everyone would be on a 3-stroke.
http://vurbmoto.com/videos/future-euro-stars-ripping-emx-125cc-class/17…


Ktm husky tm Yamaha and Suzuki all well represented... Sooooo.....

If it works in Europe, why not here?

Fuck if equal displacement never happens then why not have a 125 series at select rounds?

Oh I forgot live tv....such a bullshit argument to fall back on. They can find the time to have a 125 class, I guess honda and Kawi just don't want to.
keyboardjockey750 4/15/2014 7:53am
4/15/2014 7:53am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 8:38am
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
All the pros at Lorettas are given bikes and are preparing for the pros where they will have to ride farm tractors.

How did Jerry do on and '85 that one moto?

Boy I bet a lot of moto dads felt stupid then their sons on 20k+ machines got whipped on a bike they used to ride!!!
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 4/15/2014 7:58am
4/15/2014 7:58am
I believe the OP intended this to be a thread about why AMA PRO doesn't revise the rules to allow someone if they so desire to campaign a two stroke against the four strokes on an equal performance basis. Pretty valid question.

The four strokes performance has increased dramatically such that there is absolutely no performance balance between engine types with the rules as they are currently written. The 250F's outperform the 450's often and according to many here outperform 250 2 strokes yet somehow "according to AMA PRO rules" the 250 2st should be balanced fairly with the 450's? Doesn't add up! I think it might take close to a 300cc two stroke nowadays to compete fairly against the 250F's on a modern SX track.

We see the FIM changing the rules for MotoGP to try and offer lower cost racing for teams trying to compete against HONDA and YAMAHA's factory efforts. Luongo appears to be taking steps to offer increased two stroke participation in MXGP. But the AMA can't take an hour and revise the displacement rules in their rulebook? Doubtful many teams would partake; we didn't see anyone take advantage of the open rule structure at the MEC last year. Is there any real risk to making the change? It may allow teams without big sponsorship to feel they'd have a reasonable shot at competing fairly without the risk/expense of a four stroke effort. The fans love successful underdog efforts; look at how we still talk about Moates win at the 500 USGP decades ago!
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Gringoe 4/15/2014 8:00am
4/15/2014 8:00am
OldYZRider1 wrote:
I believe the OP intended this to be a thread about why AMA PRO doesn't revise the rules to allow someone[u] if they so desire[/u] to...
I believe the OP intended this to be a thread about why AMA PRO doesn't revise the rules to allow someone if they so desire to campaign a two stroke against the four strokes on an equal performance basis. Pretty valid question.

The four strokes performance has increased dramatically such that there is absolutely no performance balance between engine types with the rules as they are currently written. The 250F's outperform the 450's often and according to many here outperform 250 2 strokes yet somehow "according to AMA PRO rules" the 250 2st should be balanced fairly with the 450's? Doesn't add up! I think it might take close to a 300cc two stroke nowadays to compete fairly against the 250F's on a modern SX track.

We see the FIM changing the rules for MotoGP to try and offer lower cost racing for teams trying to compete against HONDA and YAMAHA's factory efforts. Luongo appears to be taking steps to offer increased two stroke participation in MXGP. But the AMA can't take an hour and revise the displacement rules in their rulebook? Doubtful many teams would partake; we didn't see anyone take advantage of the open rule structure at the MEC last year. Is there any real risk to making the change? It may allow teams without big sponsorship to feel they'd have a reasonable shot at competing fairly without the risk/expense of a four stroke effort. The fans love successful underdog efforts; look at how we still talk about Moates win at the 500 USGP decades ago!
Bingo.
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BobPA 4/15/2014 8:02am
4/15/2014 8:02am
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
keyboardjockey750 wrote:
All the pros at Lorettas are given bikes and are preparing for the pros where they will have to ride farm tractors. How did Jerry do...
All the pros at Lorettas are given bikes and are preparing for the pros where they will have to ride farm tractors.

How did Jerry do on and '85 that one moto?

Boy I bet a lot of moto dads felt stupid then their sons on 20k+ machines got whipped on a bike they used to ride!!!
Notice how you said "one moto"
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Grizz 4/15/2014 8:26am
4/15/2014 8:26am
OW38B wrote:
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class. And Pro's want to line...
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class.

And Pro's want to line up on a bike that gives them the best chance to win or the best result. Simple as that.
Look, I just want to make it clear that I am not bashing on two strokes. They are amazing bikes and I even have one myself.

I don't know why 250 two strokes still aren't allowed to race 250F's in the FIM or AMA pro races. My guess would be because the 250 was the premier class bike for the majority of the time this sport has even existed (not including 500's), so it might take some time for those rules to change. I'm all for letting them do it! It's just my opinion that most guys would still ride the four stroke simply because it's easier. Nothing wrong with riding a two stroke, ride whatever the fuck you want. I just think some people are imagining every 250 class guy lining up on a two stroke, and quite frankly, that ain't gunna happen.

Hell, if somebody lines up on a 250 two stroke at a national in the 250 class and pulls off a podium, I'll be the first to say I was wrong!
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Gringoe 4/15/2014 8:30am
4/15/2014 8:30am
OW38B wrote:
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class. And Pro's want to line...
Yo Grizz, if everything you say is true, why are the FIM and AMA still banning them from the 250cc class.

And Pro's want to line up on a bike that gives them the best chance to win or the best result. Simple as that.
Grizz wrote:
Look, I just want to make it clear that I am not bashing on two strokes. They are amazing bikes and I even have one myself...
Look, I just want to make it clear that I am not bashing on two strokes. They are amazing bikes and I even have one myself.

I don't know why 250 two strokes still aren't allowed to race 250F's in the FIM or AMA pro races. My guess would be because the 250 was the premier class bike for the majority of the time this sport has even existed (not including 500's), so it might take some time for those rules to change. I'm all for letting them do it! It's just my opinion that most guys would still ride the four stroke simply because it's easier. Nothing wrong with riding a two stroke, ride whatever the fuck you want. I just think some people are imagining every 250 class guy lining up on a two stroke, and quite frankly, that ain't gunna happen.

Hell, if somebody lines up on a 250 two stroke at a national in the 250 class and pulls off a podium, I'll be the first to say I was wrong!
There will not be a single factory or factory supported team riding two strokes. The top 20 will be the exact fuckin same.

I don't understand why mxsports or whoever is so keen on making it more difficult for the privateer than it should or could be.
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OW38B 4/15/2014 8:37am
4/15/2014 8:37am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2014 8:37am
OldYZRider1 wrote:
I believe the OP intended this to be a thread about why AMA PRO doesn't revise the rules to allow someone[u] if they so desire[/u] to...
I believe the OP intended this to be a thread about why AMA PRO doesn't revise the rules to allow someone if they so desire to campaign a two stroke against the four strokes on an equal performance basis. Pretty valid question.

The four strokes performance has increased dramatically such that there is absolutely no performance balance between engine types with the rules as they are currently written. The 250F's outperform the 450's often and according to many here outperform 250 2 strokes yet somehow "according to AMA PRO rules" the 250 2st should be balanced fairly with the 450's? Doesn't add up! I think it might take close to a 300cc two stroke nowadays to compete fairly against the 250F's on a modern SX track.

We see the FIM changing the rules for MotoGP to try and offer lower cost racing for teams trying to compete against HONDA and YAMAHA's factory efforts. Luongo appears to be taking steps to offer increased two stroke participation in MXGP. But the AMA can't take an hour and revise the displacement rules in their rulebook? Doubtful many teams would partake; we didn't see anyone take advantage of the open rule structure at the MEC last year. Is there any real risk to making the change? It may allow teams without big sponsorship to feel they'd have a reasonable shot at competing fairly without the risk/expense of a four stroke effort. The fans love successful underdog efforts; look at how we still talk about Moates win at the 500 USGP decades ago!
Gringoe wrote:
Bingo.
OldYZZRder1 - you have "wisdom beyond your years".

I concur 100%.

We just need the Gents at the AMA & FIM to come and see the light. Hell, even the "pro 4 strokes" type guys in here agree.
keyboardjockey750 4/15/2014 8:39am
4/15/2014 8:39am
machine wrote:
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on...
Hillbilly is right. Look, if the 2 strokes were better "race" machines, then all the pros at lorettas would be running them. I grew up on 2 strokes and they are fun to ride, but the forgiveness and traction on a 4 stroke wins out.
keyboardjockey750 wrote:
All the pros at Lorettas are given bikes and are preparing for the pros where they will have to ride farm tractors. How did Jerry do...
All the pros at Lorettas are given bikes and are preparing for the pros where they will have to ride farm tractors.

How did Jerry do on and '85 that one moto?

Boy I bet a lot of moto dads felt stupid then their sons on 20k+ machines got whipped on a bike they used to ride!!!
BobPA wrote:
Notice how you said "one moto"
Notice how I also said '85.

That's not '05 but '85.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 4/15/2014 8:53am
4/15/2014 8:53am
The 125cc class is basically gone from our SX and national races.

The 250F was introduced to replace the 125 , but now days , the 250F's are putting out similar power to what our older 250 2 strokes did. We basically have the 250 class and open class machines out there today.....and the 125 class is completely gone.

Having to race a 250 2 stroke up against a bunch of 450's is ridiculous , especially outdoors where 99.9% of us ride at. BUT....the good thing is....we CAN race cc to CC in most , if not all our local events. It's the "Pro racing " in which we don't get to see it.

I love em both.....and own both , even though I haven't been able to ride my KX 125 yet.....she is going to be rebuilt from the ground up. And she's gonna be a lot of fun when I get it going.
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 4/15/2014 4:33pm
4/15/2014 4:33pm
For anyone interested in the Aussie racing, our MX2 class and our MXD (under 19's) class at the Nationals, both classes allow 250 v 250, as previously mentioned. Our numbers have been pretty low for the last couple of years in all classes. To kick off this year, MXD and MX2 have had full gates and qualifying actually meant something, not just gate picks. The MX1 class, which should be our premier class had just 23 entrants at round 2. That speaks volumes to me.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 4/15/2014 4:38pm
4/15/2014 4:38pm
jeffro503 wrote:
The 125cc class is basically gone from our SX and national races. The 250F was introduced to replace the 125 , but now days , the...
The 125cc class is basically gone from our SX and national races.

The 250F was introduced to replace the 125 , but now days , the 250F's are putting out similar power to what our older 250 2 strokes did. We basically have the 250 class and open class machines out there today.....and the 125 class is completely gone.

Having to race a 250 2 stroke up against a bunch of 450's is ridiculous , especially outdoors where 99.9% of us ride at. BUT....the good thing is....we CAN race cc to CC in most , if not all our local events. It's the "Pro racing " in which we don't get to see it.

I love em both.....and own both , even though I haven't been able to ride my KX 125 yet.....she is going to be rebuilt from the ground up. And she's gonna be a lot of fun when I get it going.
Ok we get it the average person isn't affected about this what about the PRO PRIVATEERS that race outdoors?...

Post a reply to: Equal Displacement Pro Racing.....Has the time come?